"(and all baptized LDS men are priests)" is 100% incorrect.

However, the sentiment is right on. It just bums me out when someone tries to make a good point with a fallacy.

Boys can become priests at age 12. Baptisms can take place at age 8.

Sports heroes AGAINST Prop. 8: Steve Young, Magic Johnson. Two of the greatest legends in their respective sports.

Sports ASSHOLES FOR Prop. 8: Jeff Kent, faux Texan with a stupid mustache, traitorous ex-Giant, second fiddle to Bonds.

I think Tim Hardaway actually may be against Prop 8 since he went to sensitivity training.

Hate to rain on the we love Steve Young parade, but he actually came out today to say that his wife supports No on 8, he declines to state his position. If he made the effort to come out and say that, you can be pretty sure his position isn't what people were assuming it was. I'd say he's a yes on 8 guy trying not to piss off his wife.

If Prop 8 passes, I'm totally down for all-out warfare on LDS. Assholes.

Where was the "Get Off My Porch" campaign when it needed to be said?

Any well-dressed bicycle jockeys who venture 'pon my stoop will be chewed right the fuck out until the church renews its purported commitment to doing good in the world.

I don't think you undestand at all what the Mormon church is doing. They are not promoting bigotry or hatred they are simply standing up for what they believe -that marriage is between a man and a woman. It's a moral stand for them and the mormons have a right to exercise their belief just like you do. You can critize their belief, but when you critize a group of people then your comments become disrespectul, intolerant, and hateful. Why don't you stick to the reasons why you disagree with their stance rather than making hateful comments. . That's what an adult does, they don't name call and threaten people with physical violence. You are doing more harm than good for your cause

You know what the Mormons say: Marriage is between a man and a woman and a woman and a woman and a woman and a 13 year old girl.

I can't see that the Mormons have the only bad influence at all. They sent money, and worked the campaign, but, the homophobia was already there in sweeping amounts.

Queers have lost these no marriage fights in how many states- 19 or 20. I think all right wing churches are our problem, among them Catholics, Jews, Baptist and Mormons, and tons of others. And the Catholics are far far greater negative influence than Mormons, sheer numbers. (think current Pope, the worlds leading homophobe)

For some reason, the far right left the money to the Mormons. Of course the first million dollar check came from the Knights of Columbus, a rabid Catholic Society - who most likely hate Mormons as well.

Time is on the side of the gay community and we will win this right with time.

In Idaho I lived with Mormon neighbors and they were totally cool with my lover and me, mixed and mingled, went to movies, ate dinner, etc. So they are not all hung up on gay issues.

The California queers seem surprised the other side did a real campaign. Wonder why all the big last weeks agony, I thought this was the big showdown fight from the beginning.

I think we will win by less than one point, in the final count.

Just an addendum: the LDS of Utah has also made progress in forcing alcohol-serving establishments to "conceal" evidence of alcohol consumption. Some places have to shroud their liquor bottle lest Mormons feel uncomfortable.
Yeah.

I don't think Mormon churches ever have any windows at all.

@7 I think calling bullshit on the organization is completely appropriate, as is calling what they're doing hate-filled. I don't think liberals do themselves favors by mincing words when the net result is a reduction in rights thanks to a constitutional change. I do think that a proper Mormon loves sinner and hates the sin or whatever (I don't believe the gay is a sin, btw), but let's have that stop short of gigantic abuses of human rights, 'kay?

The followers of this religion do a lot of dubious things in the interest of furthering their religion, they need to be called the frick out on it.

I never new how mean people are until now. so let's get this strait I'm mormowas from 7 and I fond this articles and most of the comments offensive but why do you care you probably already hate me because I am mormon. oh I haven't been mormon all my life but i was from 7 to right now and let me tell you I am proud to be mormon and there's nothing you can do about that. see you later

I never new how mean people are until now. so let's get this strait I'm mormon was from 7 to now and I found this articles and most of the comments offensive but why do you care you probably already hate me because I am mormon. oh I haven't been mormon all my life but i was from 7 to right now and let me tell you I am proud to be mormon and there's nothing you can do about that. see you later

@7, none of teh gayz want to restrict the right of self-determined Mormons to marry only one individual of the opposite sex. The point is for them to keep their fucking gold-plated "revelations" off the rest of us.

Why don't people get fucking separation of church and state? The state can and should marry any pair of self-chosen, deeply committed people with all the rights and responsibilities pertaining thereto.

If, in addition to that conveyance of legal rights, some religious personage wants to wave his holy willow branch over a willing subset of that universe of pairings and "bless" or "sanctify" their union within that religious community, fine.

we do let them be gay but we just don't let be in the church we don't force them to be non gay if that's what u r saying

@7 and in general...
Mormons (and most other religions) vote against gays because THEY DO WHATEVER THEIR CHURCH TELLS THEM - WITHOUT QUESTION.
I work with several mormons who are very intelligent (professors and such... book smart) but they still don't question their church. They question everything else in the world but not their preachers. When I've asked them why they do research and ask questions about all other stuff but still don't question their church, they invariably tell me that they feel happier by not questioning the church. They truly like to be ignorant sheep when it comes to that. Why should they care if gays are happy? As long as Mr. Mormon is happy and Mrs. Mormon is happy and Preacher Mormon is happy, who gives a shit if gays have rights or not?

Do unto others . . .

If you want Mormons to respect you and treat you with decency when you disagree, it's sort of cool not to threaten them with bodily harm just because you hate some of the stands their church takes.

I was going to vote for gay marriage in MA, if the legislature hadn't made that unnecessary. But I know lots of decent Mormons.

Yeah, if 8 passes, they won't stop there.

It'll be pink triangles followed by camps followed by ovens followed by ashes.

No, I'm not overreacting.

Yeah, that's it. Threaten the mormons with violence. Destroy private property. That's the way to get your point across. But remember, violence is a two way street, and the GLBT community has seen plenty of it. You really should think before you spew that kind of garbage.

Funny how the GLBT community has seen fit to start channeling David Duke recently.

I guess bigotry is OK when it's YOUR bigotry.

Rather than waste 20 million dollars to support a ban on Gay marriage why doesn’t the Mormon church do something useful like spend it to feed the poor or provide shelter for the homeless.

What kind of message does it send to nonbelievers when you spend money on gaudy temples and burn money on political campaigns while the poor go hungry.

Handing 20 million dollars over to television stations for anti gay ads is a big waste of money in a world of suffering

Rather than waste 20 million dollars to support a ban on Gay marriage why doesn’t the Mormon church do something useful like spend it to feed the poor or provide shelter for the homeless. There are so many good uses for that money.

What kind of Christian message does it send when you spend that kind of money on political campaigns while the poor go hungry and the sick can't afford to see a doctor.

Handing 20 million dollars over to television stations for anti gay ads is a big waste of money in a world of suffering.

Rather than waste 20 million dollars to support a ban on Gay marriage why doesn’t the Mormon church do something useful like spend it to feed the poor or provide shelter for the homeless. There are so many good uses for that money.

What kind of Christian message does it send when you spend that kind of money on political campaigns while the poor go hungry and the sick can't afford to see a doctor.

Handing 20 million dollars over to television stations for anti gay ads is a big waste of money in a world of suffering.

Frankly there could be an entire book dedicated to the subject of Mormonism and their prejudice. I was born and raised a Mormon, left when I was 18 for many reasons, being gay is only one of them. There are many good people in the Mormon church. I know many still, some of them are even in my family. But I also know that they are not perfect people. They are just as prone to prejudice as anyone else.

It seems to me that the Mormons have really decided to single out Homosexuality however and the proof is in the pudding so to speak. For example, Mormons are also against abortion and there were several states that had very important anti (or limiting) abortion rights initiatives. Yet the Mormons didn't mobilize around this in the way they did around Gay Marriage. I guess the sanctity of marriage is a more important issue to them than saving the lives of unborn fetus'. There moral compass is confusing and seem arbitrary at times.

Just remember not all of them are evil gay haters... some are. Don't forget that one of the men who killed Matthew Shepherd was a Mormon (he was excommunicated after the murder). They have extremists just like every other religion.

You would think that all these people here commenting have their head on straight.
First of all, I live close to a lot of good Mormons, and they have done nothing wrong for standing up for something that the believe in (like you are not doing the same thing).
Second, The Mormon church itself did not donate a single dime to the campaign, it was the members that felt strongly about passing it.
Those that want to hate the church for standing up for what they believe in, that is up to you. Remember, my church and most likely all of your churches were involved with the Mormons in passing this proposition 8. It was what we felt was right and the people have spoken.
The Mormons didn't make me vote the way that I vote, I did. So yes, a lot of the members of the Mormon church helped fund the proposition, but so did a lot of other people in my church too.
It passed because most people feel a certain way and that is the great thing about democracy. What the people want, goes.

I hope prop. 8 is is shot down. I think if more long-term queer couples are encouraged to marry more will be encouraged to be parents as well. Take it from me. I had an abusive deadbeat dad who is is also Catholic- religious people are really no different than nons and can sometimes be worse. Let me say based on my personal experience I would rather be brought up by two loving queers who gave me a safe environment to grow up well in than living with straight abusive parent(s) and living in constant anxiety. The other thing is I think queer couples will make better than average parents. Why? During the adoption process you better believe they will be scrutinized like hell. Too bad some natural parents who really need this scrutinization don't get it.

The LDS church doesn't make it's members do anything. It teaches the laws and principles that our Father in Heaven has given us to live by and then we chose to follow those principles. The church didn't get involved in the support for Pro. 8, it's members took action to uphold these principles. If Pro. 8 had failed, no one would have threatened violence, protested in anger in front of any Gay or Lesbian facility, or done anything close to what is being done now. There are signs in pictures and videos saying things about love, but seems like those aren't true.

But Mojo this shows religion has been going too far and too long. It's members did this, yes. But their actions were backed by the church and the church wanted them to do it but won't admit it.

"If Pro. 8 had failed, no one would have threatened violence, protested in anger in front of any Gay or Lesbian facility"

What is a gay or lesbian facility? I'm not gay. But can you explain what one of these is? And what do gays and lesbians do at these facilities? You need to answer this.

But the problem with your quote is you religious people decided to pick a fight and piss a lot of people off- with or without official backing by your church in Utah, or wherever. And, sorry to say, your church encourages you all to get in everyone's business and be intolerant. Your churches deserve to be slammed as long as it remains legal. No, no one deserves violence and it's something personally I would never resort to and I'd never say you guys deserve it. But you people really need to tone down your loud mouths or fires might be started- again not by me and I would never condone it, but watch out for the crazies (because you are making them that way to the extreme)

But one last comment about your comment. Look at it the other way- If the gays decided to pick a fight with you people FIRST and run commercials to outlaw something about your religion when it never had any real threat to the gay community and succeeded then - YES - the gays would deserved to be protested against at their 'facilities'. Again, even though these facilities didn't make the gays start this campaign against your people (like what you claim about your organization) and the gays did it all on their 'own'. It would still be very fair to protest the gays at their 'facilities'.

Again, please don't forget to answer. WHAT IS A GAY FACILITY???

A couple of points:

1) No one has ever done anything to "conceal" alcohol consumption in restaurants and bars, whatever that means. This is just something someone made up. That won't stop bigots from preaching it like it were the gospel truth, though. You must be so proud to be so gullible.

2) Latter-day Saint churches have lots of windows.

3) If you want to talk about Prop. 8 taking any rights, be accurate about it and call it taking away a single right, namely, the right to have a specific relationship officially designated a "marriage" by the state. It's pure semantics. All the rights of marriage have been there for years. If you want to criticize people for being misleading, don't ejaculate blatant lies while you're doing it.

4) The Mormon church spends hundreds of millions of dollars all over the world to help the poor of all religions. They covered a grand total of $2,000 on travel expenses to help Prop. 8. Individual members privately donated money, but the church didn't give a dime. Again, making up facts isn't going to do your cause any good.

5) Russell Henderson had been inactive for years when he participated in the killing of Matthew Shepherd. His religion had absolutely nothing whatsoever to do with that crime.

6) For post #29, if you go to Cedar Springs in downtown Dallas you can find a number of "gay facilities." I'm sure it's no different in a number of larger cities all over the country.