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Tuesday, November 4, 2008

I Be All Hatin’ On Mormons, Yo

posted by on November 4 at 11:41 AM

I had a dream last night. My husband* announced that he was leaving me for a nice Mormon lady half his age because he wanted more children. Lots more. I asked him just how he was going to accomplish that, seeing as lady parts don’t do it for him. He explained that he planned to stay with me for three more months. During that time we would “save up enough” to get his Mormon bride pregnant at least 10 times. I agreed to his plan.

When I told my husband* about it this morning he got mad. He would never agree to break up with me in a dream, he insisted. I told him to be mad at the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints, not at me. The Mormon church has poured $20,000,000 into California in an effort to ban same-sex marriage in that state. With this election the Mormon Church has shot past the Baptists and Catholics in the race to be the gay community’s Craziest Mortal Enemies. Think about that: $20,000,000. Think of how many hungry people that kind of dough could feed; think of how many homeless people that kind of dough could house; think of how many Jewish victims of the Holocaust that kind of dough could baptize. But instead of spending that money on any of that crap, the Utah-based Mormon Church and individual Mormons all across the country opted to almost single-handedly finance the fight against marriage equality in California—a fact that inspired this ad:

This ad is upsetting people—well, it’s upsetting Catholic archbigot Bill Donohue, at any rate, who idles on outraged. Donohue put out a press release today condemning the ad because, you see, it “demonizes” Mormons for doing… well, it demonizes Mormons for doing exactly what Mormons are attempting to do: strip some Californians of a basic civil right because that basic civil right runs counter to Mormon theology. And while it’s fine for Mormons, Catholics, Baptists—for all people of faith, whatever their faith—to attack gays and lesbians in the most despicable terms (the haters in California have resurrected the circa ‘76 “they want to recruit our children” libel), Bill Donohue doesn’t believe that gays and lesbians should be allowed to push back. We’re supposed to take punches, not throw them. We’re certainly not allowed to point out that the same church that opposes our right to marry might have a broader agenda, that that church might also oppose some of the rights other Americans take for granted. Today a ban on gay marriage financed by the Mormon Church, tomorrow a ban on birth control? Divorce? Coffee? Cocktails? Non-magical underpants?

Sorry, Mormon Church, but if you’re going to attempt to strip minorities of their basic civil rights on the basis of your religious convictions, you can’t declare that any discussion of your faith—any examination of your motives for entering this debate in the first place—to be unfair or bigoted or out of bounds.

Finally, my fellow homos, there are roughly 13,000,000 Mormons in the world. How many of us are there? At least 15,000,000 of us in the United States alone? They’re a smaller minority than we are; we outnumber them. Why are we letting these douchebags push us around?

* Legally married in Canada and three U.S. states; marriage not recognized by our federal government.

RSS icon Comments


The Mormons just want to keep marriage sacred: between one man and twelve women.

Posted by Little Red Ryan Hood | November 4, 2008 11:52 AM

And if, by "women" we mean, "any female capable of bearing children, regardless of age".

Posted by COMTE | November 4, 2008 11:54 AM

Growing up as one of the only Mormons in a 99% (no exageration) Mormon town, I can tell you that the LDS church _always_ has a hidden agenda when getting involved in politics.

They have pretty much overrun the public offices in my hometown and run the town like an extension of their church. The city pretty much shuts down on Sundays, the local Mormon university owns all of the liquor licenses so that no one can sell liquor in town, etc. I"m pretty sure it's illegal, but when most of the town agrees with how things are being done, there's really no one around to complain.... damn Marmons.

Posted by Clint | November 4, 2008 11:54 AM

It's sort of like the way some people want Intelligent Design "given a fair hearing" in our schools: They want it to be taught but they also want the religious beliefs at the core of this "theory" to be exempt from inquiry. Because an actual scientific examination of the theory of I.D. in the classroom would probably convert more kids to atheism than just teaching evolution.

The zealots want it both ways. They want to have their views aired in public but have those views remain above criticism or questioning.

Posted by flamingbanjo | November 4, 2008 11:57 AM

I knew this really annoying girl in High-school. Nothing attractive about her. She got married to a decent guy, and whenever I reflect on that, I picture myself telling him "You know you married Pam, don't you? Why would you want to do that - she's gross."
I don't, of course, because I recognize that he must see something in her that he likes. I know for a fact that were at least a handful of people in my wife's college who hated her too.

This is relevant to your article, because every time you say "husband" I have the same thought: "Why would you want to do that? There are girls out there!" The thought is doublestrength, actually, since I think the same thing on your Husband's behalf. There you go, though. You two must like each other fine, and I suppose if you do, I don't particularly care to keep you from being happy.

No on 8.

Posted by Ad | November 4, 2008 11:58 AM

that is my sister in that commercial. i'm so proud of her : )

Posted by audrey | November 4, 2008 12:01 PM

@5: Huh?

Posted by Dan Savage | November 4, 2008 12:03 PM

Finally, you wrote it: "My husband." I'm sure you've explained the "boyfriend" circumlocution a thousand times, but it grated every time I saw it.

Posted by John W | November 4, 2008 12:04 PM

@8, word, I think dan is a little bit too old to be using the term "boyfriend"

Posted by lisa | November 4, 2008 12:08 PM

I hate it when I fight with my gf in her dreams.

Posted by STJA | November 4, 2008 12:12 PM

@9: What? You can't have a "boyfriend" at 30? Hehe.. *wink at Dan*

Posted by Clint | November 4, 2008 12:12 PM

13M Mormons and 15M Homos and you ask WHY the Homos get pushed around like a bunch of well, Homos? It's cuz the Homos don't care. It's not more complex than that. The Mormons care enough to spend the very best...

Posted by Sargon Bighorn | November 4, 2008 12:15 PM

I appreciate the subtle use of the Mormon Panty Raid(TM) in this ad. I wish to see more political ads employing that tactic.

Posted by AW | November 4, 2008 12:16 PM

Well, if you figure that roughly 5M of those 13M Mormons are gay (or "suffer from Same-Sex Attraction"), it starts to make sense. there any gayer religion out there?

Posted by Jaymes | November 4, 2008 12:20 PM

the church of LDS did not allow african americans to join until the late 70s, and still actively discourages inter-racial marriage. i'm beginning to feel more comfortable with hating mormons, or at least their backwards, shittyass religion. we gave you people utah for a reason. discriminate all you want there, leave the rest of the country to the normals.

Posted by brandon | November 4, 2008 12:26 PM

Gays should start officially adopting dead mormons as honorary homosexuals.

Posted by kinaidos | November 4, 2008 12:26 PM

Special panties

Posted by Mormons wear special panties | November 4, 2008 12:27 PM

COMMENT DELETED: Gratuitously Inflammatory

We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.

Posted by kinaidos | November 4, 2008 12:32 PM

@16 FTW

From a former mormon who has been fighting that battle for far too long. :-)

Posted by Timothy | November 4, 2008 12:43 PM

Lapsed Mormons are also teh hott.

Posted by Greg | November 4, 2008 12:45 PM

Responding to "Kinaidos" Post about Mr. Dalley. You have no idea who this man was. He was kind, gentle, and was NOT Gay. You took a man many loved and admired and smeared his name for your own personal gain. You say the mormon church is wrong, but look at what you have done to a man that has nothing to do with this blog. Shame on you!!! Shame on You. If you are representing the gay lifestyle you are doing a horrible job at it. You deserve to never be married.

Shame on you!!!!!

Posted by Proud of who I am | November 4, 2008 1:19 PM

Sorry PowIa, Mr. Dalley's been homotized, he's forever going to be remembered as kind, gentle and TOTALLY gay.

Posted by PdxRitchie | November 4, 2008 1:29 PM

COMMENT DELETED: Gratuitously Inflammatory

We'd rather not moderate your comments, but off-topic, gratuitously inflammatory, threatening, or otherwise inappropriate remarks may be removed, and repeat offenders may be banned from commenting. We never censor comments based on ideology. Thanks to all who add to the conversation on Slog.

Posted by Original Monique | November 4, 2008 2:19 PM

Case in point.

Posted by Greg | November 4, 2008 2:39 PM

Almost every Mormon I have ever met is charming and thoughtful, but their craba$$, freaky religion is always just sitting there like so many sopping wet sweaters in the room.

@18, good job converting the dead. Heck they'd do it to you.

Posted by WonderingWilla | November 4, 2008 3:11 PM

I just did a search to find Mr. Dalley's obituary. This site came up first. I don't know what this site is, but I hope whoever is the administrator of it will remove the comments tying Lin Dalley to homosexuality, even if his name was used as a spoof. Nothing could be farther from the truth. Those who love this family and are grieving at this time will suffer even more pain at seeing Lin's name slandered in this way. Only a person with no scruples and no conscience would take hostage an obituary link in this way and create rumor, even if done as a joke, about a man who is no longer available to defend his good name. Although we were not of the same religion, he was a fine friend.

Posted by janet worth | November 4, 2008 3:46 PM

I'm coming to this thread late so I suspect no one may ever read this comment, which is maybe just as well. With regard to Mormons I want to say that things become a lot less clear cut when you're confronted by actual people instead of a faceless group, and I know too many Mormons as individuals to feel entirely comfortable with the way they're being represented as a group here. The Mormon Church is wrong on this, yes, but I know the way that many LDS people think about this issue, and it doesn't exactly fit the pitchfork waving bigot profile that has gained traction in our community. That's not to say there aren't angry Mormon pitchfork wavers, but the LDS church's rhetoric and theological opposition to homosexuality are markedly different (and generally less combative) that of Evangelical Christians and Cathilics, even if their resolve and financial commitment to the issue is greater. I guess what I mean is that at an ever increasing rate Mormon opposition to homosexuality tends not to come from actual hatred or dislike of gay people (in contrast with Evangelicals for instance), but rather from a more dispassionate theological conflict. Of course all this may well be semantic and I understand the counterargument might go something like, "Even if the Nazis extermination of the Jews had not been motivated by hatred of the Jews, they would still be killing Jews," not a comforting prospect really (and arguably creepier than the alternative). However, I keep coming back to all the Mormons I know personally, they aren't hateful, they aren't mean, and they don't really fit easily into the bigoted anti-gay religious stereotype that we know from movies, TV, andpersonal experience. This isn't to say that Mormons shouldn't be opposed, but people need to recognize that Mormons as they exist today (and not in the 60's, 70's, and early 80's) are unique, as is their opposition to homosexuality when compared with other Christian churches. If we want to be effective in our fight against the Mormons we need to take the time to figure out what they actually are, rather than making arguments and attacks that are personally satisfying but that don't represent the reality of most Mormon people. Throughout its history the Mormon church has always benefited from the fact that its members tend to defy popular conceptions and expectations of what they should be, by being nicer, smarter, and more thoughtful than expected. We run the risk of contributing to that phenomenon by making blanket statements about Mormons as all being stupid mean spirited angry intolerant douchebags. Satisfying as that may be to read, it frequently doesn't gibe with reality, and in the end that does not help us.

Posted by Mattcable | November 4, 2008 3:52 PM

I once broke up with a friend because she was a Mormon and decided to attempt to convert me. I am fine with the non-religion I have, thank you. Don't preach at me because yours makes you feel insecure.

Posted by Schweighsr | November 4, 2008 5:22 PM

I, too, have no problem with Mormon individuals, until I realize that, as individuals, they each have the ability to decide NOT to participate in a religion that is so megalomaniacal and wrong-headed. If one person can make a difference, and there are (please, let there be) Mormons who DON'T support bigotry, suppression, and hatred, not to mention getting your own planet someday, those people have to STEP UP and SPEAK OUT against the über-plans of the LDS church. If you are a Mormon, but don't have the heart to participate in the violation of others' civil rights, PLEASE SAY SOMETHING to those around you. I urge you to come out as a free, loving, and non-bigoted individual in a religion that might just be saved by your selfless act.

Posted by Scout | November 4, 2008 7:05 PM


Did you know Lin Dalley? Do you know how he died? Why would you raise these questions in the minds of those who love him? I will never forget your comments. How can you expect to be treated fairly when you would do such a thing. Why would you torture those he left behind, mother, father, sisters, brothers, freinds, wife, children? KINDAIDOS, ORIGINAL MONIQUE, I will remember this

Posted by Joseph Hamilton | November 5, 2008 12:31 PM

Kinaidos, Original Monique, PdxRitchie, a novel idea:

Frequent posters to a popular blog make comments about a recently dead man. Someone they know nothing about. They haven't bothered to check on the man's history. They don't know how he died. Could it have been murder? Suicide? An accident? Natural causes? Could it be related to the "cause" the three stand for themselves? Hell, who cares it's just a name. Right? All good clean fun!

But someone reads it. Someone who knew him well. He searches out the three, in Tigard, OR? Seattle, WA? Cathedral City, CA? It's not that hard, even with just a pseudonym on a blog page. How many times have you posted over the years? Have you given any personal information in those posts? Do you have a face page? Have you ever taken out a classified ad? Does your lifestyle lend it self to security, safety? Scary isn't it? What do you think? Good story? Want to know the ending? It will scare you to death!

See Ya!

Posted by Coming to Ur Neighborhood Soon | November 5, 2008 3:16 PM

Does anyone else but me know that there's a crazy-ass death threat on this post?

Posted by Tracy | November 5, 2008 8:48 PM


Did you know Lin was a Firefighter/Paramedic? When Station 25 goes out at night, do the sirens wake you? When you hear them, remember Lin. Oh yeah, Lin can't defend himself, he's dead. When they go out, remember me instead.

C Ya!

Posted by Smoldering | November 6, 2008 3:02 PM


Did you know Lin was a Firefighter/Paramedic? When Station 25 goes out at night, do the sirens wake you? When you hear them, remember Lin. Oh yeah, Lin can't defend himself, he's dead. When they go out, remember me instead.

C Ya!

Posted by Smoldering | November 6, 2008 3:03 PM

Um . . . does anyone else by me know that the death threats are still happening?

Posted by Tracy | November 6, 2008 7:11 PM

PdxRitchie (aka Rich Joyce),

How could you be so cruel to Lin and his family after your recent loss of Sarah in the same manner?

No Tracy, no one is paying attention. They are all immune, hidding behind their pseudonyms, lashing out and hurting innocent people/survivors for no good cause. At this point mature people would simply appologize and we could all move on.

Posted by Smoldering | November 7, 2008 9:37 AM

Take home lesson:

The pseudonym/posting anonnymity is a blatently false security. The focus of who and where they are grows sharper by the hour. Crisp and clear as a digital photo. Their arrogant ignorance astounds me.

Posted by Smoldering | November 7, 2008 9:48 AM

I too found this site when search for info on Lin. I just wanted to thank all those that have defended him here. He was a great man.

Posted by Ashes | November 7, 2008 12:50 PM

You are welcome Ashes. I am sorry you had this experience. My motivation here stems from the sure knowledge that you are not the only one to be affected by these coward's thoughtlessness. Believe me they did not know him. He had nothing to do with them. There is no justifiable reason for them to have done what they did.

Mercy cannot dethrone Justice. Justice will be served.

Posted by Smoldering | November 7, 2008 1:21 PM

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