City Wherein I Tell You Exactly When You Can Stop Reading Knute Berger’s Latest Post
posted by on May 8 at 17:48 PM
Right here:
A few early French restaurants in Pioneer Square in the 1970s…
Dude. It’s 2008. It’s time to let go.
Of course, if you do read on, you’ll be treated to some real gems of twisted logic and insincere credulity. Such as:
our most ardent urban advocates have become uptight and nativist, from new liquor crackdowns to calls for secession.
Nickels’s “call for secession,” as Berger surely realizes, was a joke. And Berger’s one to talk about “nativism.”
Moving on:
Once, you may have looked for an authentic bistro that served Evian with your meal. Now, sipping foreign water out of a plastic bottle is tantamount to firing a slug into Gaia’s gut. And don’t tell anyone you like foie gras.
“Firing a slug into Gaia’s gut”? Way to make with the dated references, dude. What are you, Maureen Dowd?
What has Berger’s tie-dyed boxers in a twist is a press conference Mayor Greg Nickels held encouraging Seattle residents to drink tap water. This, Berger is convinced, is a sign of Seattle’s the final descent toward the dreaded Nanny State™, and he’s not having any of it.
It’s a Berger special: Toss out some received wisdom, throw in a few unsupported assertions, add a dash of irrelevant data, and stir.
So importing and drinking bottled water is bad, but exporting Boeing aircraft and war machines is OK? Which do you think has a bigger impact on greenhouse gases? Which uses more oil? Which contributes more to destroying the planet?And what about Starbucks, for god’s sake? How much carbon is burned and how much greenhouse gas emitted getting those beans here? Unless I missed it, there are no coffee plantations in Wallingford.
Oh, snap! I also think people starving to death in developing countries because of Americans’ meat consumption is bad, therefore I will drink infinity bottles of water with impunity!
And indeed—for god’s sake—what about Starbucks? Well, according to a 2007 article in Forbes (the first thing that pops up when you Google “Starbucks carbon footprint,” btw—but maybe Berger’s still using Lycos) in 2003, the company emitted 295,000 tons of emissions, not including the 81,000 tons it emits shipping beans around the world. So yes, Starbucks has a climate impact. But the difference between coffee and bottled water is that there’s a (more or less) carbon-free alternative to bottled water. Unless you’re going to give up coffee, your beans are probably going to be shipped from somewhere. Or is Berger advocating a ban on coffee? Man, what a scold that guy is.
Then he really starts to stretch:
Third, the taste and quality of local water is often impacted by the pipes it travels through. Maybe it’s just me, living in older homes and apartments, but even when filtered, my tap water doesn’t taste as good as most bottled waters. Few can afford to replace their plumbing.
See? Nickels wants to TAX POOR OLD-BUILDING-DWELLERS by forcing them to REPLACE THEIR PLUMBING. It’s a plot, I tell you! Also, it’s impossible for Berger to use ANY of the alternatives:
I tried special ordering mineral water in glass bottles for awhile but could only get it by the case. Have you ever tried lugging a case of glass-bottled water home from the market? I suspect plastic may be better than hauling the bottles home by car.I suspect that too! Fortunately, I have at my desk this thing called the Internet, which is full of handy facts and figures to confirm or disprove unsupported assertions! Here’s what it told me:
The total amount of water used to produce and deliver one bottle of imported water is 6.74kg.. And the amount of GHGs released amount to 250g, or 0.25kg, or 0.00025 tons.
That’s a lot of carbon per bottle! Except that, whoops, driving is actually MUCH worse. Burning just one gallon of gas in a midsized car (let’s assume Berger drives a Subaru, shall we?) puts 20 pounds of carbon dioxide in the atmosphere. Even if Berger’s only driving a couple of miles, his carbon impact is going to be greater than the impact of the bottle, especially given that cars emit the most CO2 when they’re started up. (His hypothetical drive to the grocery store would mean he has to start his Subaru up twice.)
OK, but even if he were to somehow manage without water in plastic bottles at home, what would he do when he’s out on the street? Drink from a public water fountain, perhaps? No way, Berger says. Not because of concerns about hygiene but because, apparently, public water fountains no longer exist:
You can buy Evian in gas stations and quickie marts now, but where have all the public drinking fountains gone? And how many are maintained in good enough condition that you’d actually want to use them? Downtown Seattle used to have Bubblers on many corners, but no longer.
Translation: Everything was better in Berger’s halcyon 1970s, when nobody lived here and the Nanny Staters™ hadn’t run amok all over Seattle, prying away shoppers’ plastic bags and yanking the 40s from their hands. (Also, I love that Evian is Berger’s idea of fancy).
Where HAVE all the public drinking fountains gone? And what’s the deal with riboflavin?!?
Now, then. See if you can spot the inaccuracies in this next paragraph:
The city has tried to control what types of alcohol can be sold where, it’s cracked down on loud music, smoking, it wants to start charging you for using the “wrong” type of grocery bags, it wants to eliminate fast food from the city, it has employees inspecting your garbage to see if you’re obeying recycling laws, and our elected leaders are just chomping at the bit to start tracking where you drive and when so they can charge you by the mile. Big Nanny is watching.
Give up? Here they are!
1) The “city” hasn’t “cracked down on… smoking.” You can thank the voters of Washington State for that. The smoking ban won overwhelmingly; and it worked.
2) The “wrong” type of bags? I don’t think he’s quoting anything except his own imagination. What’s actually going on: The city may start charging 20 cents for disposable paper and plastic bags in an effort to get people to switch to reusable bags. Incidentally, the last I checked, the reusable bags at my PCC were going for 73 cents.
3) The city’s banning fast food? That’s news to me. I am aware that the county has banned trans fats in restaurants throughout the county, and that they’re requiring nutritional information on meals in chain restaurants. But a citywide ban on fast food? Scary sounding, but not bloody likely.
4) Employees inspecting your garbage? That’s a stretch. Trash collectors who already work for the city will look into garbage cans and won’t carry the trash away if they’re full of recyclable stuff. Which is, by the way, pretty much what they’ve always done—you won’t get your yard waste picked up if it’s full of candy wrappers, and you won’t get your recycling picked up if it’s full of computer monitors. Setting standards for what goes where isn’t being a “scold”; in fact, it’s exactly the system we’re used to.
5) Finally, drivers can calm down: Seattle leaders aren’t trying to charge you for every mile you drive. What’s actually happening is that King County is looking into pay-as-you-drive insurance—a fairer form of insurance coverage that charges you only for the amount you use your car (unlike conventional insurance plans, which charge infrequent drivers just as much as road hogs.) And they’re implementing a few HOT lanes, which give solo drivers the ability to pay to drive on high-occupancy lanes. All of these innovations work by using an EZ-Tag style transponder—the same kind of transponder long in use in cities across America. Believe me, Knute—Greg Nickels doesn’t care where you’re driving.
In conclusion, Berger writes:
As a mossback, I am not opposed to nativist sympathies — I often share and applaud them. But one of the local traditions I treasure is tolerance, and the idea that there’s more than one way of behaving and looking at the world. That used to be the essence of a vital city, until Singapore, I guess.To me, one of the few mitigating factors in Seattle’s march toward Manhattanization is the hope that the resulting mess will at least be broadminded, perhaps even creatively fertile. But instead Seattle seems to be on the forefront of a new kind of urbanism that demands we adopt its least appealing qualities (crowding, high cost) and eschew its virtues (broadmindedness, variety). Instead, we’ve got a dense city full of scolds and micromanagers.
Do Berger and I live in the same city? It sure doesn’t seem that way. True, I’ve only lived here seven years (not enough time for that moss to grow on my back), but I’ve never felt “crowded.” (Perhaps Berger needs a bigger place?) And the only times I’ve ever felt “scolded” were when people gave me dirty looks for jaywalking (usually in the rain). And that kind of scolding is actually a vestige of the bygone Seattle mossbacks like Berger want to recapture.
tl;dr
Why'd you have to bring Andy Rooney into this?
(Rooney and Oscar are my grump role models.)
Berger (and his fellow "Lesser Seattle" losers pine for the days when they were the scolds and nannies.
This post was fucking awesome.
Knute Berger is the anti-Barnett. Equally irrational, but in the opposite direction. Put them together, and you get pure nonsense.
If only we could harness this power for good....
@1 i really hate that fucking acronym. besides, it's only appropriate when directed toward slog commenters (you know, the ones not employed to pontificate).
Ah, Erica, if only you had known the "original" Skip Berger, the one hired by Ken Gouldthorpe to edit Washington Magazine because he was progressive and smart and glowing with inner Zeitgeist. As I remember those days, we had no internets, and we had to feed the squirrels a ton of peanuts to keep the treadmills turning fast enough to power the electric typewriters. I'm guessing the squirrels eventually died (peanut poisoning, most likely), and Skip's Zeitgeist just flickered and died.
YES! YES! YES! This is the best thing ECB has ever said and the only time I actually agree with her 110%. Yes, 110%! It's that good!
Screw Knute Berger and the "Nanny State" argument. Go dotter off somewhere to mumble about the seventies and let us get to work building an actual city that actually works.
You're expending too much energy on such an insignificant column.
Written by someone who's never lived with well water.
I'm from a small town with well water and there were days when the water smelled of sulfur or tasted of copper, never mind the one or two days every other year where we had to boil the water while the water tower was cleaned. I'm not about to claim any sort of hardship status, but compared with that, I love Seattle's tap water. Put it in the fridge and I'd rather drink it than send money to [insert bottling company here].
Jesus Christ.
Your biggest problem with Berger seems to be that he has a sense of historical place and memories about Seattle of a bygone era. What's wrong with that? It lends perspective to the present.
Laterite is right.
Still, this:
"Oh, snap! I also think people starving to death in developing countries because of Americans’ meat consumption is bad, therefore I will drink infinity bottles of water with impunity!"
Sometimes you can still delight me.
Re: "5) Finally, drivers can calm down: Seattle leaders aren’t trying to charge you for every mile you drive. What’s actually happening is that King County is looking into pay-as-you-drive insurance—a fairer form of insurance coverage that charges you only for the amount you use your car (unlike conventional insurance plans, which charge infrequent drivers just as much as road hogs.)"
I think Berger was refering to this plan: http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/localnews/2004369904_tolls24m.html
which proposes charging drivers tolls depending on when and where they drive in order to get them to make more efficient use of the roads. It involves installing GPS devices in all cars. I could be wrong.
ECB this post was tired. Not as tired as that last one, but still tired. Are you the slog shock jock now?
I agree with @8. This post lost its steam about halfway through. We get the point.
Nope, ECB, you don't live in the same city as the knutty one. I think he lives in Kirkland.
Nope, ECB, you don't live in the same city as the knutty one. I think he lives in Kirkland.
a bit windy, but always good to have you back ECB
I'm pretty sure that CM Richard Conlin et al did in fact briefly consider restricting fast food restaurants as part of the "Healthy Food" initiative or whatever has called. The Council also banned drive-thru businesses in Sound Transit Station Areas (so, for example, you can't replace the Jack in the Box on Capitol Hill or in the U-District - both of which happen to be some of the only food around after midnight).
Whether it's banning cheap high-octane beer (far more of which is actually sold to poor and working-class people than street alcoholics), imposing grocery bag fees that the City acknowledges will generate millions of dollars (and which you'll also pay whenever you get restaurant food to-go), Greg Nickels and Tom Carr continuing Mark Sidran's war on nightlife, and yes, holding a press conference about banning bottled water at City Hall, this whole trend all does sound like galloping nanny-statism to a whole lot of people - many of whom are longtime Democrats in good standing.
It's a lot of little stuff, but it adds up to a local government that is increasingly intrusive, punitive and yes, nanny-ish.
What's more, Seattle ought to have working drinking fountains (and public bathrooms, for that matter), and there's nothing wrong with KB pointing out that local government is more focused on holding press conferences scolding people for drinking bottled water than it is delivering basic services.
But yeah, he kinda does sound like Andy Rooney. I'll give you that.
Skip Berger rules. He's friendly and open minded with strong opinions. Also, he lives in Seattle. Your ongoing disdain for him is juvenile and mean spirited. I know he loves this city. Maybe you both do.
Oh, for chrissake. Go back to supporting Hillary, Erica. At least that was entertaining.
I love Slog's take downs of Moss! The guy is so goddamn contradictory (and full of shit).
Why do you keep calling him "dude"?
I want the bubblers back, and the natatorium on Alki. We'll save water by bathing together. And thank you Erica, for reading anything from the Weekly, so that I don't have to.
Oops, Abraham Simpson doesn't write for the Weekly anymore.
Yes, Erica, no one lived in Seattle in the '70s. It only became a city in your era. What an asshole, being older than you.
I hate Berger as much as any Stranger reader, but I think his relevance is long past and giving him any mental bandwidth is just feeding the troll.
As for his comment that the tap water doesn't taste good, Seattle has some of the strictest taste testing of municipal water lines in the country. Here are some SPU docs that talk about the quality control of Seattle's water supply and water mains:
http://www2.seattle.gov/util/engineering/ArticleView.asp?ArticleID=7-11.2(2)#7-11.2(2)
http://www.seattle.gov/util/stellent/groups/public/@spu/@usm/documents/webcontent/spu01_002164.pdf
NaFun, your tap water depends on whether you're north or south of the Ship Canal. I assume Berger is north, because Tolt water is lousy. South, you get Cedar water, which is delicious.
But, you know, people back in the seventies and before mostly drank TAP WATER. Berger's got his facts completely upside down. In 1972, bottled water was RARE AND EXOTIC; most people had never seen it before, and people made fun of it. Yes, you could suddenly get Perrier (not Evian, not til later) in a handful of places, but it was an expensive and exotic treat. Skip Berger sure as hell wasn't loading cases of it into his SUV every week. He was drinking fuckin' tap water like most people.
The funny thing is the way an "original Yuppie" like Berger has transformed bottled water, which in the 70s was the very symbol of elitist scum ("Perrier-sipping liberals" as opposed to Nixon's "Silent Majority"), into its opposite -- hard-workin' white folks just tryin' to git by without The Man keepin' 'em down.
Even Tolt water is potable, especially if you filter it. Get a damn Brita. Plastic bottles are evil.
Petty and childish jealousy.
No one reads the dailies, except when they do.
I love wathcing one hack attack another.
Keep up the good work.
Aw, that's so cute: she thinks she's actually a good enough writer to critique the work of others.
Fnarf nailed the real flaw in Knut's logic which ECB missed. He's using the patented Hillary Clinton-Karl Rove class reversal.
Get used to it, folks. This is what journalism has come to in this town. Heaven forfend that either Knute or Erica could go out and, you know, report some news.
I read all the way through everything Erica writes because it feels so good when I stop.
Erica's totally right about Berger being a contrarian whiner when it comes to tap water. Most people in Western Washington don't think about how lucky they are to have some of the best municipal water in the world.
Here's an idea: if your pipes are bad, replace your pipes! How is that hard, Knute? Aww, good plumbing costs money. That's what we call 'reality,' jackass.
actually, i think he doesn't live in seattle; he lives in kirkland...
The quote:
"To me, one of the few mitigating factors in Seattle’s march toward Manhattanization is the hope that the resulting mess will at least be broadminded, perhaps even creatively fertile. But instead Seattle seems to be on the forefront of a new kind of urbanism that demands we adopt its least appealing qualities (crowding, high cost) and eschew its virtues (broadmindedness, variety). Instead, we’ve got a dense city full of scolds and micromanagers."
is spot on.
This new kind of "urbanism" that implies I must bow down and adopt crowding, condo conversions, escalating density, bad transit is precisely the reason I'm already considering moving back out of the are after having been here 5 years.
It's sad really. There are so many great things about the area. But if Seattle becomes as dense as it is predicting within the next 5 years...
I'm gone.
You're wrong about the malt liquor and 40s ECB.
The only thing I remember about old Seattle that I really miss was when Boeing Field was our commercial airport and flying out on a Boeing 337 stratocruiser. That was nice. Most everything else is much better today. Berger is wrong about "A few early French restaurants in Pioneer Square in the 1970's", actually there was only one and it was the only French restaurant in the City (there was another in Juanita or Kirkland). The dining out scene here was a wasteland. Fortunately the border crossing at Blaine was fast and a weekend in Vancouver every so often was a nice reminder that great urban living was possible in the Pacific Northwest.
This thread seems dead but I have to say, can we ban the Britishism "spot on"? I saw it in the comments above. It seems affected to me. I don't know what the point is. Can we also ban "hizzoner" to refer to the mayor of Seattle? This one really bugs me. I don't know what the intent of it is. Knute B used it in the item this post references and Joel C at the P-I loves to use "hizzoner." I guess the intent is to capture some kind of 1920's New York-Chicago-LaGuardia-Daley cachet, or to try to mock some imagined inner-circle of sycophants with a bloated sense of their boss who insist on everyone calling the mayor by that title. Well, no one around here does that. Did they ever do that? If not, cut it out.
Comments Closed
In order to combat spam, we are no longer accepting comments on this post (or any post more than 14 days old).