They had it. They said no. They missed the train...

We light rail supporters should have taken the combo package while we had a shot. Getting some of the rail we wanted was a better option than none, which is what it's looking like this time around.

What's next Sierra Club?

So Haugen thinks it would be "very unwise" for Sound Transit to go to the ballot in 2008 in the wake of Prop. 1's defeat? In a presidential election year when we can see there's going to be a huge turnout of Democrats, independents, and young voters flocking to vote for Barack Obama? What do you think the correlation is between Obama voters in, say, King County and people who would vote yes on light rail expansion?

It's pretty obvious, Haugen isn't afraid Sound Transit will get defeated at the ballot in '08. She's afraid that Sound Transit will win at the ballot in '08.

Ms. Haugen, Sound Transit doesn't need a nanny. I think Sound Transit's leaders aren't stupid enough to fly a kamikaze ballot measure in '08. If they do want to go to the ballot, that may actually be because they're confident they can win at the ballot.

whatever, we're not going to get light rail. we had our opportunity and we blew it. we'll be lucky to get half of what was in prop 1, and it'll take twenty years to get it.

Even if it does come back, it'll be a much smaller package this time around.

ST likely won't even be around in 2010 to come back to the ballot.

Take a close look...the dems are putting almost enviro issues on the back burner in favor of jobs, edu, and health care. All good things, but definitely prep for christine not look to liberal, right? back away from global warming....

neo-realist @2: What's next Sierra Club?

Great question. Actually, I have two more specific questions for the local Sierra Club leadership:

1. What is your position on allowing Sound Transit to go to the ballot on its own in 2008?
2. What is your position on transportation governance reform?

Oh, and one follow-up question. Whatever your positions are on the above issues, are you going to lobby for them in the legislative session that's about to start?

Mike O'Brien? Tim Gould? Mike McGinn? Be glad to hear from any of you guys.

Doesn't it make sense to have light rail up and actually running (scheduled in 2009) before asking voters for more money? That's what Portland does. When people see how great the trains are, they vote for more. On the other hand, if the trains are shit, why would we want to pay for more?

Gee, I sure am glad you all opted to wait for a better deal than Prop 1. Thanks, guys!

Well, there goes the optimism that I was finally able to muster post-Prop. 1 defeat. The anti-Prop. 1 crowd really had me convinced for a while there that light-rail-only was a shoo-in for the '08 ballot.

Now, we've gone from "Should be separate from roads" and "Should be on the ballot in 2008" to hoping that we maybe get something, anything, on the ballot as early as 2010.

I have to admit I admired the convictions of those who were willing to gamble our region's transporation future on the hope of separate and comprehensive light rail legislation. However, if light rail stalls out because your convictions turned out to be overly-romanticized, then you can all eat peanuts out of my shit.

@9, I am with you! Thanks all you who said "They will put light rail on the ballot next year" Yeah, right they will. FUCK do you know ANYTHING about politics? You NEVER put any controversial or high priced initiative on a ballot in an election year.

So for those who were against Prop 1, thank you so much and BTW, you can not bitch about transit in Puget Sound again. YOU GOT WHAT YOU WANTED!!!!

Even though polling showed that the measure would have passed if it hadn't included the roads portion? WTF guys, do you know what the hell you're talking about? Is there some sort of new polling that shows voters magically reversing opinions and suddenly hating on public transit?

Get us more light rail, assholes. Density is what we need, and bad, and having some rail rapid transit is vital.

OTOH, cap and trade emissions is gonna be a big fight in and of itself. They may be thinking that they're already up to their eyeballs in enviro stuff as it is, and wanting to not fight the rail fight again so soon. Still, we're game for both, try us.

Ironically, it seems state Democrats are just as good as Republicans at blocking light rail.

This is what I was expecting when Prop. 1 went down, especially after Gregoire's tepid "it's on the table" response to Feit's question about lightrail in '08. She's going after Eastern WA voters, so she'll keep it off the table for now.

The reality is that an ST2.1 only vote in 2008 will win.

And they know it.

But the RTID is dead and no amount of whining will get people to vote for more roads while our existing road infrastructure needs to be repaired or replaced FIRST.

P.S.: Replace the bridge and add light rail to it.

Expand the streetcar! Kill some cyclists to make room for more cars.

God I just want to cry.

Light rail construction is well under way. Soon, we'll have safe and comfortable light rail service from downtown to the airport. Everything is proceeding to plan, and ST is one of the most-frequently audited agencies around. Still on budget!

@15, 18: Will you shut the fuck up already?

Most of you really need to sit back and try taking a different look at the issue. Light rail will never come thru Seattle like all you eco-rabid green bunnies wish.

#1. Light Rail is expensive, and those of us outside of Seattle limits don't want to pay for your folly. If you want light rail, it will need to be a COMPLIMENTARY solution to vehicle/transit traffic. It will NEVER replace auto traffic needs.

#2. It will need to run from locations where people who will use it are willing to pay for it. Sorry but the taxes of those living in NorthGate aren't going to cover the costs of it. Instead you need to think of running light rail in from North Bend, into Issaquah, Bellevue, and arriving at the main station in Seattle whereby people can pick up a transit connection to continue on to their final destination.

#3. Light rail needs to have stations at Park and Rides whereby people can drive to a P&R and get out of their cars sooner. The glut of traffic is from those living in suburbia driving down into Bellevue/Seattle. It is not from those arriving at SeaTac and needing a ride into downtown.

Those of us living outside of Seattle are tired of having the issue looked at it from Seattle-centric "policy makers".

Let's face it. The money isn't in Seattle. It's in North Bend, Issaquah, Bellevue, Redmond, NewCastle. You need to start thinking of putting it in for those who can afford to pay for the infrastructure.

The whole project needs to be completed and done piecemeal and funded locally by those in the areas it traverses.

Reality Check

um, that wasn't me @18, @19.

Seriously, you guys act like you've never lived in a city building light rail before.

You think SkyTrain just grew organically with no resistance? Nah, it was fits and starts and many places that didn't want it changing their minds.

Same with the eastside here. But RTID is still dead and I'm glad it's got a stake driven thru it's pro-pollution pro-SOV pro-global-warming heart.

Cressona @3 nailed it. Put it on this year's ballot. If voters want it (and I think they will), then all the sooner ST2 gets off the starting block. If the voters reject it, then fine, game over for now.

Perhaps more folks need to tell Gregoire, Chopp, and Brown (Dem leadership) that if they don't feel like pushing our issues this year -- like ST2.1, fixing property taxes, or other progressive issues -- than maybe we won't feel like donating money and volunteer time to their re-election campaigns this summer!

'Cause I'd be happy to donate instead to folks like Rep. Jarrett, newly converted Dem in E. King County, who put his neck out on the line as a Republican for the Anti-Discrimination Bill, or new Rep. Sharon Nelson in West Seattle who thinks it's important to make sure that mines don't get expanded along Puget Sound.

I already told Gregoire that, when she sent me a fundraising email, Mickymse.

Wonder if she hears about the replies to those?

Not to worry, she must still like me, I got a Xmas card from her with the cute Santa dog.

@20: "Light Rail is expensive, and those of us outside of Seattle limits don't want to pay for your folly." LRT is a lot less expensive than the subsidies paid for highway construction and your war in Iraq.

BTW, you need a clue-fairy to tap you upside your head: you and your fat-assed exurban road hogs already are paying for light rail. Stick that in your corncob pipe and smoke it!

Frank Chopp long ago gave up on actually representing his constituent's interests. There is no way he will champion this.

Whoops, Constituents' interests, not constituent's. I'm sure there is at least one constituent whose interests he represents. They probably live in Montlake or something.

I just sent this letter to regional leaders and Sound Transit officials yesterday-

Dear Elected Official,

The overwhelming majority of King, Snohomish and Pierce already knows that they want light rail so why aren't we getting it done? 72% of the region supports extending light rail. We know we want it, it's simply a matter of how we will get it.

The Proposition 1 ballot measure failed mainly because of the way it was being sold. Which is to say from the region's leaders it wasn't. This year's light rail vote should be bold, clear and confident. Sound Transit needs a clear message to send to the voting public. There is no way something as complicated and large as Prop 1 had a prayer of passing. Make it simple.

Seattle is growing into an international destination city. The region at large is booming. There are going to be as many as 1.2 million new people in the region in the next 30 years. We need to start building a first class transportation system that is fast, comfortable and logical immediately. We deserve rail as the backbone.

As for selling the system, you shouldn't be asking people to get out of there cars, you should be inviting them onto a light rail car. Stop parading theoretical ridership numbers that could easily be way off and sell light rail on points we can all agree on: comfort, reliability, permanence, speed, energy efficiency, lowered maintenance and labor costs, and opportunity for eco-friendly, dense, transit oriented development. Paint a picture of what the region will look like with light rail. Metaphorically and literally.

As for roads expansion, are we going to pave over the very city we love with more lanes and freeways? Of course not. I-5 is never going to be expanded in Seattle. I-405 and SR-520 are getting minimal expansion at best. While light rail isn't going to get cars off the roads, it's going to offer the opportunity to get on light rail, so you can bypass the whole mess and ride a better form of transportation.

Make the taxes fair. A small general tax is fair because everyone will ride it at some point, and even those who don't benefit directly will benefit from having less cars on the road and cleaner air to breathe. Property tax is very fair because it taxes those who will use the line most, and property owners who will profit the most. MVET or gas tax also makes sense because it takes money from the dwindling oil recourse and puts it into a new system that runs off of domestic energy.

The expansion needs to be psychologically satisfying in order to pass. It needs to be a bold statement that says that light rail is going to work for this region. It should go to Everett, Tacoma, and Redmond. It should include money for planning for a replacement for the Green Line Monorail, an east side north-south line, along with other future lines mentioned in Sound Transit 2. It should mention planning for spokes emanating from each major center that include light rail, streetcars and improved bus routes. Most importantly, it should materialize in a reasonable amount of time so that the people who are voting can imagine being here to ride it. Finally, reassure drivers and bike riders that their concerns aren't being ignored, this is just a vote that focuses on building a comprehensive mass transit system.

As for Bus Rapid Transit, it is great in theory and should be used to some extent for improving lines that won't see light rail for a long time, however it does not improve ridership levels very significantly, especially compared to light rail and still suffers from the inherent problems with busses such as being uncomfortable, polluting, and impermanent. Why not spend a little extra and get the real deal? Light rail provides a better ride, almost always attracts more riders in real life examples and lowers maintenance and labour costs in the long run. For more information on why light rail bests BRT in the real world, check out this website:
http://www.lightrailnow.org/facts/fa_brt_2006-08a.ht

I am a college student now, but I plan on planting my roots here- starting a family here and building a business here. As a young person looking towards the future, I want this region to be the best we can imagine it to be.

This region needs a transportation overhaul and in order to get that we need a bold statement from our leaders on what that that is going to be.

Ha, ha, ha, fucking ha.

Prop 1 had it's warts, but you're going to see that god damn cross-base highway before you see trains cross Lake Washington. Guess what? Outside Seattle city limits, people want the blacktop.

But I console myself with the notion that I'll be catching a Rapid Ride bus out of West Seattle as soon as 2011. Wow, progress!

Get over the fact that many, many thousands of people like their cars, depend on their cars and are going to drive their god damn cars regardless of global warming.

Learn to make a compromise--that's how you get some of what you want rather than none.

From Cale: "72% of the region supports extending light rail."

Only if someone else pays for it though.

Once you attach real dollars to it, support drops like a rock for light rail. Prop. 1 failed by 44% to 55% region-wide. That means 25% more no votes than yes votes. And people did not vote no because some of the money would go to replace the SR 520 span.

Nobody trusts ST. It is unaccountable and not run in a transparent manner. Beg to differ, Cale? Give us a link to how much tax revenue from the five subareas ST now wants to use in Phase 1. Betcha you can't!

Sound Transit's financial information is available here-
http://www.soundtransit.org/Documents/pdf/about/financial/2007/Q3_2007_Financial_Report.pdf

I'm not really sure what your question is asking so I'm just gonna let you do the research and prove your point to me.

The agency is comprised of real people you know, you can just call them or e-mail them and talk to them about something you don't like.

Honestly, some of you act like everything is a god damn conspiracy.

As for your Prop 1 analysis, it's completely based on conjecture, I at least have this survey to back me up-

Summary-
http://www.soundtransit.org/Documents/pdf/about/board/Discussion%20Items/2007/3887%20Key%20Findings%20Memo1.pdf

Some findings-
"the survey reflects strong
majority support (65% Support) for a package that adds 50 miles of light rail – with complementary
express bus service – at a cost of $10 billion."

"Moving forward, there is strong support for elements that were part of the Sound Transit 2 Plan.
The concern that is reflected about the overall size of Proposition 1 suggests the need to review
the size and financial parameters of any future package"

It was too confusing. It's that simple.

As for the nobody trusts ST argument, care to explain this finding from the survey-

"There has been no deterioration in Sound Transit’s overall favorable rating (64% Favorable / 24% Unfavorable) since April -- a strong majority of voters (59% or more) in all 5 subareas continue to view Sound Transit favorably. "

Some other links regarding the survey-

Full Findings-
http://www.soundtransit.org/Documents/pdf/about/board/Discussion%20Items/2007/3887apx.pdf

Analysis-
http://seatrans.blogspot.com/2007/11/prop-1-survey-released.html

Oh, and here are the results of the latest state audit of Sound Transit-

http://www.soundtransit.org/x7112.xml

For the 6th time out of 7, the audit contains no negative "findings". The agency was commended for its "culture of continuous improvement".

Why is it that whenever transit issues come up, they always splinter into some "us v. them" debate among transit supporters? Prop 1 is done, get over it. Regardless of which side you were on for Prop 1, if you support the extension of light rail, you should fight for it and demand that your representatives do the same. At this point, this squabbling is totally counter-productive.

Told you so.

You're all missing the point. Will in Seattle promised us a new transit bill by the end of February. So that's what's going to happen.

52 days left to go, Will. Good luck.

It's time for the light rail! Come on people!