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Tuesday, June 20, 2006

What Will They Say About the Dead Soldiers?

Posted by on June 20 at 11:28 AM

Reading the news this morning that those two missing U.S. soldiers have been found dead in Yusefiya, their bodies so “brutally tortured” that military officials are describing the discovery as simply “their remains,” I’ve been wondering what connections will be made by those who write about the killings.

In particular, I’ve been wondering if a connection will be drawn between the torture and killing of these two U.S. soldiers, who were apparently in Al-Qaeda-wannabe custody before their deaths, and the widely reported torture and killing of suspected Al-Qaeda members in U.S. military custody.

After all, one of the arguments for John McCain’s torture ban was that allowing the U.S. to torture enemy combatants made our soldiers less safe. Or, to put it another way: Throwing out the Geneva Conventions hurts our captured soldiers more than it helps our interrogators.

I don’t know if “The Mujahedeen Shura” would follow the letter and spirit of the Geneva Conventions even if the U.S. promised to do the same. But I see that some people, anticipating that these two U.S. soldiers would be found badly tortured, were already wondering yesterday what kind of outrage the U.S. could reasonably express in the event that the soldiers were found to have been mistreated.

What if we get pictures of the soldiers, nude, cowering, screaming in a corner, shitting themselves on the filthy floors of a makeshift cell, as their captors hold snarling dogs on leashes just out of bite range of the soldiers? …

What if, and, really, does it need to be said, they are made to stand, hooded, with faux electrodes attached to their nuts and fingers, told that if they don’t start answering questions, well, testicles only can take so much electroshock before they just pop like squeezed grapes?

What will our government do? What could it do? Could it condemn the actions as not abiding by the Geneva Conventions? Could it call the actions “torture”? Could it demand accountability? Could it demand that the soldiers be treated as POWs? Could it simply say, “Well, we don’t do that shit…anymore”?

UPDATE: Sullivan says this today:

I doubt whether even Donald Rumsfeld will describe what has been done to two young American soldiers as a “coercive interrogation technique.” But you never know. Some people wonder why I remain so concerned about torture, and the surrender of our moral standing with respect to this unmitigated evil. Maybe the news of captured, tortured and murdered Americans will jog their conscience. Or maybe it will simply reinforce the logic of torture-reciprocity endorsed by Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Gonzales.

CommentsRSS icon

Eli,

I think the real question is... Looking at the way captives have been slaughtered, should this not be a validation for the treatment by our military?

Quite frankly, were I a squad member of one of these recent US victim's, I would not think twice before shooting first and asking questions later.

Eli,

I think the real question is... Looking at the way captives have been slaughtered, should this not be a validation for the treatment by our military?

Quite frankly, were I a squad member of one of these recent US victim's, I would not think twice before shooting first and asking questions later.

...and so we go back into the cycle where we were before Geneva - where dumbshits on both sides think that torture is the only way.

Fuck this stupid war. And all the assholes who voted for this retarded sociopath of a "leader"

Tonight's Frontline, they're going to take Dick and Rummy behind the woodshed on deceiving us into the Iraq war. it airs at 10. I suspect Alberto will have PBS off the air for good by midnight.

Someguy,
The hypothetical reaction that you describe is precisely the alleged reaction of the marines currently under investigation for killing civilians in Haditha.

Was the Haditha incident referenced by those who claimed responsibility for the capture and killing of the US soldiers?

Right on, Eli.

There's a big difference.
The terrorists torture and kill -- ending innocent Iraqis and soldier's lives with a dull knife.
The U.S. water boarded terrorists stop to a dirty bomb attack and prevent an 911 style attack on a Los Angeles skyscraper.
That you all would even compare the two is totally disgusting.

Umm, yeah Maple Leaf. Abu Grab Ass was all about averting a terror strike on LA. Thanks for enlightening us with your usual delusion.

Yes, war brings out the worst in the bad apples in our military. Still, there's another big difference - we punished those Abu Grab perpetrators and they are now in prison. Nice try Longball.

Mapleleaf, stop watching "24" and try to pass it off as fact or news...Jack Bauer is fiction you know.

I'll have to check out '24' - never seen it. Nope, my info comes to me like it does to you: Associated Press, Washington Post, New York Times, MSNBC, CNN, Fox, etc. I'm a news hound so I strive for variety.

"Yes, war brings out the worst in the bad apples in our military."

Yep, one of the many reasons you don't go to war unless you have to.

Mapleleaf, if ignorence is bliss you are one happy mo fo. Do you really believe Abu Grhaib was an isolated incident? That kind of stuff is reported all over Iraq, Afganistan, Gitmo, etc. The real difference is that our electorate, (semi)free press and the like make it so our leaders feel slightly compelled to take token actions like sentencing a couple privates and non-coms to prison. There, problem solved! and now you and Fox news can rest your conscience that our torture and murder is much more humane and sensible than "theirs".

Here's one thing we will do to the enemy combatants that we didn't do to ourslelves... hold their leadership responsible for the attrocities they commit.

No, Abu Grhaib (thanks for looking up the spelling for our thread...;-)) is not an isolated incident - and there will be probably be more heartbreaking atrocities commited by coalition forces to come. But not nearly on the scale of what the terrorists are doing in Iraq to Iraqi citizens and our forces. Not that a comparison makes it right. It's a bloody mess from every angle.

Yes, we got to get out of there. But not until conditions on the ground are good enough so that Iraq's army and police can take over (at least Hillary agrees with that) - and we'll probably have some presense for 20 years to come in Iraq.

That's what most Iraqi's want, even though they hate our presense, the don't want total chaos.

It's like W is driving America in a Hummer through a raging river. Many said "No, don't Geroge" but he did anyway. Now we're starting to get stuck mid-stream. The loony left wants us to abandon the Hummer and run back to shore - certain drowning. But W's going to gun it and drive us to the other side. There's no choice.

Mapleleaf,

I'll be as sanguine about US atrocities as you are when the real perpetrators are in prison - Alberto Gonzalez, Dick Cheney, and George Bush. Until then, go fuck yourself.

By the way, "collateral damage" from US bombings has killed as many or more Iraqis as "terrorists" (actually, those Iraqis who have the temerity to be ungrateful about our illegal invasion) have. But little facts like that can't get in the way of your warmongering peabrain, I suppose....


"The U.S. water boarded terrorists stop to a dirty bomb attack and prevent an 911 style attack on a Los Angeles skyscraper."

How about some sort of references for these bullshit assertions, newshound. And no, waterboarding an insane person and wasting thousands of man-hours on the false leads that were generated doesn't count. Newshound, pfft...

Maple Leaf, you are a disgrace to the neighborhood you name yourself after - a neighborhood that was largely settled after WWII by veterans who knew how awful war was and how it should never be entered into lightly.

My dad was a WWII veteran, and he died last year knowing we had an idiot as president and that soldiers and innocents were dying for absolutely no reason.

Why don't you change your handle to Boeing Field or Harbor Island - something that would reflect your subservience to your corporate masters?

My oh my. At least I add some spice to the SLOG echo chamber.

Tell ya what, sporto. Why don't you join up and add some spice to Iraq, instead?

Chickenhawk P.O.S....

I know I'm stepping into it, but what is P.O.S.?

POS=Piece Of Shit. Common shorthand on the Internets.

POS = Mapleleaf

mmmmmSmack!! That's my kiss on the cheek of Mr. X. A Bugs Bunny moment for me!

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