Right on the money Ian McKellan.
He just made my cool people list.

I love Ian McKellen. If I were forty years older and a gay man, I would totally go for him.

Oh hell yeah!

I love Ian McKellan. Why are all the good ones British? I mean, they already have Eddie Izzard. Why can't we have someone who is smart and funny and to look up to? It's just not fair...

I'm glad Ian only mentioned the New Testament. Most of the Old Testament and especially the parts stating that Israel belongs to the Jewish people are of course based on historical fact. We must be careful because some would deny that god gave Israel to the Jews by calling all of the bible fiction. The film proves the New Testament is all lies but many historical studies have shown The Old Testament or Torah is fact.

Yup, old coots who collect pairs of every single animal on the planet, flaming bushes that talk, curious women turned into pillars of salt, guys who can create freeways through large bodies of water with a wave of their hands - you just KNOW those have gotta be TRUE!

The Torah (Christian Old Testament) is the revealed word of God and does give Israel to the jewish people. Archeologists have proven most of the Old Testament to be historical proof.

When the fuck are the slog nerds going to institute an ignore feature???

I'm tired of all the threadjacking by shoshana, student, and co.

This thread is about The Bible as fiction. Some people disagree. Many believe that the Bible does deed Israel to the Jewish people, and that Noah had an ark.

Others like Ian believe the entire Bible to be fiction.

yes, but those who believe that noah actually built an ark and put two of every animal on it, and then floated around for 40 days are, umm, stupid. and those that say it is settled fact are not just stupid, but also wrong.

Ian is right. The entire Bible is fiction including the sections saying "Israel belongs to the Jews" and "The Whale ate Jonah". If the Christians would burn their bible, and the Jews would burn their Torah half the wars in the world would never happen.

i don't think you have to take it that far, ian fan. if people would just take their religions with a grain of salt, they wouldn't get in so much trouble.

and it's not just christians and jews who get too into their religions. there are crazies in every religion, just as their are really amazing people in every religion.

Thank you for standing up for the truth of Torah. Much of the Old Testament is true without the grain of salt. God gave Israel to the Jews, it's right there in the Bible. Ian is calling the entire Bible fiction and that's an insult to the jewish people, because the Torah (The Christian Old Testament) is all true.

ok, but you realize that you are saying that something in the bible is true because it's in the bible. that doesn't work. simply because you and a lot of people think it's true doesn't make it true. and believe me, i'm not sticking up for the torah or talmud saying that god gave israel to the jews. and also saying that you are an idiot if you think the ark story is true.

can't you just be okay with it beling a moral story, or fable or somthing? i thought jews were all about that stuff.

So if I start a religion and write a Holy Book of my own and run around claiming it was written by God, I can give myself, say, Joseph Gordon-Levitt. If he objects—if anyone objects—I can just say, "Hey, it's right there in my Holy Book!"

exactly. also, you can set up a church, and then make everyone give you 10 percent of whatever they earn.

also, you get tax-exempt status.

suddenly, i understand l. ron hubbard.

If you claim the entire Bible is fiction, then there is no Biblical basis for the jewish claim to Israel. Jewish settlers point to the Old Testament as their property deed.

I believe Ian is pointing out that burning the Bible, Old Testament torah included, would rid the world of a lot of nonsense including Arks, and wars.

i don't think there is a biblical basis for jews having israel. if they want to have a country, then they should have at. same goes for the palistinians. just give them both a country. though hamas hasn't really shown to be up to running anything.

hell, if anyone wants to have their own country, then they should go for it. but they have to develop their own electricity, water management, and whatever else.

Shoshana, I recommend that you pick up the latest issue of Smithsonian Magazine or just read this. The article takes a critical look at the people doing archaeology in the holly land and the political motivations that influence many of their conclusions.

In short, when carbon dating is applied to the remains of cities like Jericho the dates do not correspond with biblical accounts of their destruction. The insinuation (it is not stated strongly enough to be a conclusion) is that the early Jews were one of many indigenous cults in the region and not freed slaves escaping from tyranny in Egypt. The Old Testament was created as a Nationalistic document to justify early Jewish subjugation of the other cultures; with the existing ruins and the stories surrounding their destruction used as proof of an invasion by the “Children of Israel,� from whom the authors claimed to be descendents.

In this light, G_d giving “The Promised Land� to the Jews is very much like the idea of Manifest Destiny; only in this case the Pilgrims were in fact just another group of Indians who knew how to spin history.

I join Dan Savage in bitch slapping Shoshana and the jews who think Torah is the Word of God. If the Torah is a big lie too, burn the Torah and The Christian bible.

Actually, he said The Bible, not the NT. Both OT and NT included.