“Imagine a day in which no garbage is thrown away in the city of Seattle"

Seriously, the goal is to live in your own filth?

Memo
To: Harell, Bruce
Fm: A constitutent
Re: "leadership [is] the boldness to go slow."

________________________________

Nah, nope, no way.

Leadership is moving forward as fast as circumstances warrant. We have huge land fill issues, waste issues, even the gasoline that goes for garbage trucks is an issue. We need to go faster on all issues realting to climate change, waste, and so on. Much, much faster!

Driving down Market Street after having a couple of cocktails at the BalMar -- that's when you need to go slow!

Pls. make a note etc.

Signed,
A loyal constituent

This is the first baby step into the sad world of socialist state depravity.

I guess Seattleites will have to start buying plastic trash bags to line their trash cans… that’s if they’re barbarian enough to still have trash.

Good. I'll miss having an easy source of free trash bags, but such is the cost of progress, I guess.

I'd hoped that by now a journalist would have stopped using, improperly, a trademarked name for expanded polystyrene foam.

Stranger's blog, referenced here

Being well-off, I intend to continue getting my bags from stores just as before. And since I will now be paying the supposed "social cost" of my action, I expect the left-wing eco-freaks to shut up and stop moralizing about it already.

I'm also happy to pay another $1/gallon in carbon tax on my petrol if it will shut up the "planetary emergency" people.

In defiance of this total waste of the Council's time and energy, I will now be shopping in Shoreline. This, of course, will require that I drive more frequently, and that will have an even worse effect on the environment.

Prediction: you will see them sold by the box as trash bags. I know if I were a hdpe bag maker, that's what I'd do.

I'll be the guy stocking up on bags from Shoreline and Burien and handing them out for free to any takers at Seattle stores.

@8

Think of the children, you ass.

Does this mean the Council will also spare us and the waste stream the glossy mailers the send out to get elected?
I doubt many of those placards saying how environmental they are get recycled.

Also wanted to add: Sucks to you, retail workers!

I expect that I will be continuing to take my bags from the automated check-out lines free of charge. Unless they find a way to scan and weigh them, of course.

And I'll be triple-bagging, as a "fuck you" to everyone who thinks this is somehow a wonderful idea.

How many pieces of ID and financial information does one have to provide to qualify for those free low-income bags? Where does one apply?

wow, ever since Mr Poe left, all these right wing-ding assmunches have popped out of the woodwork to flap their gums. Apparently, his acerbic, gay flippery kept them at bay.

I miss Mr Poe...

Sounds like Jan Drago's the only one I'm giving a check to ...

Children, children. Settle down.

Burgess is implying that increased nanny statism is "using market forces in the best possible way"? Seriously? I think Milton Friedman might disagree.

Richard Conlin is a paternalistic douche.

I live in Seattle, work in Bellevue, WILL be voting yes on Sound Transit, and will now start shopping for groceries on my way home from work.

Look, the bag fee isn't the end of the world and there are a few good things to say about it. But between ineffectual feel-good bullshit like this and the Sonics, the mayor and council can kiss my ass in the town square.

Is it 20 cents per bag, or 20 cents total?

Stupidity. Seattle once again lets emotion overtake reason, and makes a highly politicized (but politically flaccid) "feel good" decision to appease the environmentalists. No doubt the hippies who so fiercely defended this lackluster plan will be celebrating in the streets this evening, dreadlocks flowing freely as their sandalled, sockless feet touch the warm asphalt dusk brings.

I can't wait until this has been in effect a few years and the city realizes both that it had absolutely no positive impact and that, in fact, the "ban" did more harm than good in the long run.

Does anybody know why Council chose to apply the bag fee only to grocery, drug, and convenience stores? That covers only 70% of the bags.

The autoparts store can give out free bags, but the drugstore right next door cannot? Makes no sense.

And Trader Joe's paper bags go untaxed?

Help me here, someone. This just doesn't jell.

"Seattle residents will be voting on a $17.8 million expansion of Sound Transit,"

That'd be "billion," with a "b" . . .

Obama was wrong, this is the moment the rise of the oceans began to slow and our planet begins to heal. Thank you oh brave city council and I look forward to the day when I can tell my grandchildren how we saved the planet by taxing paper and plastic bags and eliminating styrofoam containers. (tongue firmly in cheek)

wow!

So much mouth foaming over something so minor.

I can understand people getting upset over a threat to your civil rights; losing the right to free speech or practice the religion of your choice or the right to own hand-guns even, but getting worked up over plastic bags and styrofoam...

Really?

Mankind got along pretty well for a millenia or two without plastic shit. I think we'll survive.

Move the fuck on, already.

@10, you know the box is sort of wasteful, what if they sold them individually, un-boxed, say for a nickle apiece? Maybe with a nice POS (no, "Point Of Sale") display at the checkout stand?

@15, what makes you think there will be any bags at the self serve checkout? (or see previous paragraph) For that matter, how will the checkout station know you are not trying to bag an un-scanned item if you put your canvas bag on the bagging platform?

I want to see the money from this pay for full-on bottle reuse, the kind where every time you buy a beer it's got two worn bands on the glass at shoulder and foot. Unfortunately, I have my doubts that such a sensible measure could possibly pass in fake-green Seattle.

"And Trader Joe's paper bags go untaxed?" The fee applies to both plastic and paper bags. And Trader Joe's is a grocery store, last I checked. Why would they go untaxed?

So, if nobody has to pay this fee, why is it that the IRS says I can deduct it as "sales taxes" on my 1040 long form?

Well?

Sure sounds like a tax to me.

@27 "first they came for ..."
That said, I'll be LOLing when they put a fee on free newspapers, and will applaud when they charge a fee to senders of junk mail (though I'm not holding my breath waiting for either)

i hope some high paid city hall staffers read this and other comment threads on this issue, because you have sorely misjudged the public mood. we are tired of you guys taxing us to death for everything.

any can anyone explain to me why paper bags are tossed into this mess? they are earth friendly!

@33: They are not.

Hey, where did Mr. Poe go?

Yeah I'll just start burying my garbage in the back yard. Hey, rich yuppies and CMers, do this at least: When you see any of our elderly neighbors in the checkout line having to penny up the total for their weekly groceries, kick in a few sheckels for their plastic bags so that you can feel you've done your "THING" for the environment and poor folks, too.

I'd rather they have a re-use fee. Charge for the bags, but get the money credited if you bring them back. That seems like the legit way to do it.

As for the rest of you- you all will pay your 20 cents, moan about it and the continue to have your groceries bagged with paper or plastic, except for the cat lady ahead of me at Safeway, the hipster wannabe ahead of me at Whole Foods and ECB.

So now instead of grocery and convenience store providing plastic bags that will be around forever at a financial loss, they now get to make $.5 to $.20 profit when providing plastic bags that will be around forever.

That is awesome leadership. I do think it takes a lot of effort to find some legislation that provides new revenue sources to corporations at the expense of the general public while barely addressing the problem it is suppose to solve.

I wonder when we get the first lawsuit from someone either hurting their back with an over stuffed reusable bag or accusing baggers from under-packing their bag to charge them for more bags. Or how about when they start buying cheaper plastic bags that will always need to be doubled.

Totally awesome, there are some many new ways to charge consumers more! Go QFC!

@23
Wow, Hippies huh? Way to use an up to date reference. Says a lot about your mindset, just some 40 years behind.

But seriously, what will the beatniks thinks?

@39: I agree, "hippies" shouldn't be a term we need to use anymore. But unfortunately, someone has yet to tell that to the throngs of them that flock to Seattle.

Well, when the "hippies" show up be sure to point them out to me. I'll be over here hanging out with the "preppies" but I think latter a group of "flappers" may be joining me.

Well hey, the preppies and the flappers are A-OK in my book.

Waaaah!

By 2012 (or whenever this has been in full effect for a year) no one is going to fucking care. Just like the smoking ban. Move to Idaho, you whiners.

Hey, can we start putting a 20 cent tax on all copies of the Stranger, the Weekly and any other free alt-weeklies out there? Think about it, hundreds of times as much energy and materials go into printing a copy of the Stranger or the Weekly and from what I see at least half of the copies printed are never read.

This is a completely stupid and ineffectual bit of eco-poseur bullshit that will do absolutely nothing to improve the environment, not one damned thing. I'd love to see one of the affected businesses sue the city over the fee on equal protection grounds, the mandate that customers at some businesses pay for their bags and other's don't is completely arbitrary and wouldn't stand up in court for a second. Just another reason why I'm glad I don't live in Seattle, the place is run by a bunch of complete fuckheads.

Gee Will, I've been doing peoples taxes for about eight years now, and I've never seen any reference to "plastic bags" on a 1040 long-form, or anywhere else for that matter.

(Oh, and sales tax deductions are taken on a Schedule A, not the 1040, BTW.)

And yes, if you buy a box of garbage bags, and are charged sales tax, you could conceivably deduct the sales tax portion of the purchase, assuming you're so anal-retentive that you actually save every single shopping receipt for the year, instead of just taking the calculated deduction - which also assumes you can itemize on the aforementioned Schedule A, which not everyone can do, mind you - like normal people.

Also, if you have to purchase large quantities of plastic bags as say, packaging for some product you make and sell, then sure, it's a business "expense" (very different from a "tax"), that can be deducted against your business income.

But, my guess is this is going to work more like a surcharge, and not be taxable, therefore you wouldn't be able to take a deduction against the purchase, even if you happen to itemize.

And of course, need I remind you that you don't even have to pay the $0.20 fee in the first place. But, that would require you to bring your own bags when you shop, an act of such onerous inconvenience to so many people here evidently, that you're all already pissing yourselves in terror at the very notion.

@45 - Schedule A is part of the 1040, it's one of the ones you use to claim the sales tax instead of the non-existent state income tax.

What idiocy. The practical impact of this will be utterly minimal when it comes to conservation, so the net result is going to be one more feel-good harassment by the puritanical liberals here.

I welcome the plastic bags because I need something to use to bag my dog's shit when I walk him. So, the result will probably be that I'll go to the pet store and buy a big container of plastic bags. Ergo, I won't use any less plastic than I did before.

But when I go to the grocery store, I'll get paper sacks. Which means more trees get cut down that otherwise wouldn't have been, because I'll be using just as much plastic PLUS the paper.

And why? So some liberal-chic sandalistas can feel better. These people should quit trying to run everyone's life.

I'm also happy to pay another $1/gallon in carbon tax on my petrol if it will shut up the "planetary emergency" people.

Come now, do you really think it'll shut them up? You can't possibly be that naive.

I'll agree that the bag issue in time to come is going to be no big deal. The only way this is going to affcet me is that I'll have to start paying for garbage bags to line the can under my sink.

What I do find confusing:

1. Why exactly is the city getting 15 cents out of every 20?

2. This is supposed to affect greenhoouse gas emmissions?

Has anyone else noticed that this vote takes place two days after the Seafair torchlight parade? I'd hazard a guess that the environmental impact of having a drunken fleet of powerboaters littering Lake Union and Lake Washington for a week or so, watching "rocket boats" and being buzzed by F-18's might be something the Seattle City Council wants to address if they are actually serious about Greenhouse Gas Emissions.

BTW... The Exchange between Comte and Will in Seattle: Ladies, stop hiitting each other with your purses.

You want to ban something that will actually make a difference for the planet? Ban SUV's and single occupancy vehicles in the City of Seattle.

Grow some fucking balls Seattle and actually do something that will cure the planet, not put a fucking bandage on a tumor and say all is fine.

I did not read all of the comments but I do want to say one word.

PAPER!

@51, paper bags are subject to the 20 cent fee as well. Why? Because they actually create MORE air and water pollution to both make and recycle than plastic bags do. http://www.reusablebags.com/facts.php?id=7

Wrong, Will. Schedule A is - Schedule A, and the 1040 is the 1040. A Schedule A is not required in order to file a 1040 long-form, which is why the IRS has separate forms in the first place.

"In 2002, Ireland passed a tax on plastic bags; customers who want them must now pay 33 cents per bag at the register...Within weeks, plastic bag use dropped 94%. Within a year, neraly everyone had bought reusable cloth bags, keeping them in offices and in the backs of cars."

(New York Times 2/2/2008)

"In defiance of this total waste of the Council's time and energy, I will now be shopping in Shoreline. This, of course, will require that I drive more frequently, and that will have an even worse effect on the environment."

Allow me to thank you on behalf of my fellow Exxon stockholders.

I can think of tens of thousands of people in Iraq right now (Americans) and millions of others (Iraqis) who would be shocked that this is the kind of shit that aggrieves you so.

Bigger eco challenges await. The journey of a thousand miles begin with a single step. Next, ECB will be asking you to take a shorter shower. (She's already told me to take a cold shower.)