What a brave leader!

What vision!!

Civil Unions for everyone...except him.

Should each state determine which citizens get to use which water fountain, Senator?

Is that a fair assessment? or are water fountains more important than marriage?

It's sad when candidates have to use a state's rights argument for separate and unequal treatment to avoid alienating a certain section of the electorate.
Gee, hope he doesn't feel the same way about roe v. wade.

I'm convinced, patrick. Let's have McCain instead. You're a joke, dude. Total joke.

"Marraige" ruling?

Um, I thought it was Marriage.

But, you have to admit, it's funny how States Rights is coming back to bite them in the ass.

That "states should make their own decisions" rhetoric will come back to bite Obama in the ass. Republicans will accuse him of hypocrisy on 'states rights' issues, and progressives will be justifiably pissed over such a transparent pander to middle america.

He should have just let the first sentence stand on its own.

If Obama straight out said he was for full marriage equality, he would straight out lose the election. There are many socially conservative Democrats out there.

It's just politics.

Why doesn't he just sit his black ass in the back of the bus then?

Who stood up for him when it came time to exhibit courage, sanity and common sense?

That was just politics too. Did he listen to his own speech on the cheap and divisive and mean spirited social crap that divides our country?

Its really unfortunate that you would choose to sound like one of the staunch republican idiots that won't contradict bush imperialism instead of having a mind of your own.

THAT is far more damaging than anything John McCain would do. You suck, elenchos.

Yet another emo drama queen, useless to everybody except Ralph Nader and the GOP.

McCain spokesman:

“John McCain supports the right of the people of California to recognize marriage as a unique institution sanctioning the union between a man and a woman, just as he did in his home state of Arizona. John McCain doesn’t believe judges should be making these decisions."

Right on, elenchos! You are the perfect example of why the Democrats are shitty and unreliable.

You don't need the resistance of an emo drama queen to lose elections or win them and do nothing with your victory.

You are exactly the kind of person that kept Jim Crow laws in effect for decades. Obama should be proud of the blind allegiance of his followers. Sieg heil!

"If Obama doesn't [do X], then I'm voting for McCain!"

Patrick, Elenchos also caused the Great Fire of Chicago and the breakup of the Beatles, the heartless bastard.

John McCain appears to be forgetting that the Cali legislature approved same-sex marriage twice before the courts got it.

Agree with patrick (except the sieg heil part). Equal civil rights for gay people isn't a radical issue. Obama co-sponsored re-introducing the federal equal rights amendment. It sounds like he doesn't understand what that means.

He's obviously a trillion times better than McCain, but being better than an enormous douchebag should not be the standard.

I at least have the sense to not call anyone a Nazi unless they are speaking sympathetically about fried chicken. It's called a SENSE OF FUCKING PROPORTION, OK?

I agree that I'd like Obama to support full marriage rights, but there is some reason to the argument that it could make it less possible that he ever gets elected.

Said Patrick:

Why doesn't he just sit his black ass in the back of the bus then?

Who stood up for him when it came time to exhibit courage, sanity and common sense?

That was just politics too. Did he listen to his own speech on the cheap and divisive and mean spirited social crap that divides our country?

Check out Wikipedia on the subject of the '64 election. Johnson might never have had the opportunity to sign two vital civil rights bills if he hadn't been elected. So if Obama's doing anything, it's the exact same thing that got black people out of the back of the bus (law-wise).

Dammit, that blockquote was supposed to include all this:

Why doesn't he just sit his black ass in the back of the bus then?

Who stood up for him when it came time to exhibit courage, sanity and common sense?

That was just politics too.

My, my, my leek...you sound like Hillary Clinton.

The hat tip I made to the Nazis had to do with blind obedience and absolute compliance with irrationality.

You can love Obama until the cows come home, darling...but you don't have to encourage him to be weak and historically contradictory..and flat out STUPID. You can disagree with him and still love him.

That is how I deal with elenchos. I love him even though I think he would compromise away constitutional protections as long as they don't affect him. He is a real patriot!!

Huh?

Not just me, patrick. Everybody who doesn't vote for Nader is just as compromised. You're surrounded by us.

seems that Hillary and Obama are pretty much saying the same thing.

Clinton:"Hillary Clinton believes that gay and lesbian couples in committed relationships should have the same rights and responsibilities as all Americans and believes that civil unions are the best way to achieve this goal. As President, Hillary Clinton will work to ensure that same sex couples have access to these rights and responsibilities at the federal level. She has said and continues to believe that the issue of marriage should be left to the states."

they're both going right down the middle, claiming to be for equality while not offending the god mongers and their archaic traditions. playin' it safe, like the focus groups told 'em.

With around 1 in 10 Americans living in California, the unreconstructed tongue-talkers and snake-handlers are gonna have a tough time proving that marriage equality causes the collapse of civilization as we know it (not that they've ever had to prove any of their idiocy).

Once the dumbfucks in the square states see that some Tom of Finland type isn't gonna force them into a hot'n horny same sex marriage, the majority of them will get over it and we can all move on, including the Barry and Hillz show.

Hey Obama folks, Iowa needs U this time.
http://actblue.com/page/iowaneedsu

Patrick,

In case you haven't noticed, the federal government doesn't even have a law banning discrimination against gays and lesbians in the workplace. Obama supports enacting it and extending it to transgendered people.

And he's not being stupid. He's being smart. If he were stupid, he would come out in favor of marriage equality, lose the election, and ensure that gays can't even get anti-discrimination legislation enacted in the next four years.

This thread is closed.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Godwin's_law

Patrick, full marriage equality isn't going to be built in a day. Support for civil unions is today considered a compromise middle of the road position, but was considered far out radical when Vermont first enacted them almost ten years ago. And @21 has a good point about people needing to see that the sky won't fall in when same sex couples are given full equality. With the largest state now on board, the momentum will be there for other blue states to join in. Canada started out one province at a time. When Ontario, Quebec and BC which together comprise the overwhelming majority of the Canadian population enacted same sex marriage it marginalized the right wing ninnies to the point that even the present Conservative Party prime minister hasn't done anything to reverse the federal government's enactment nationwide.

I see much more progress on this issue possible under an Obama (or even Hillary) presidency over the next four years than under McCain. Obama isn't pandering to the rednecks, he's being realistic.

And by the way, calling people Nazis who disagree with your opinion puts me in mind of comments made today by Idiot Boy himself. On an unrelated topic as Bush addressed the Israeli Knesset he compared Obama to those who tried to appease Hitler before World War 2. You're not exactly in good company.

@24: Sorry Ryan, your post went up as I was composing mine @25. I guess that means George Bush should shut the fuck up as well. But you could have told me that eight years ago...

@8 - we're not talking about Clinton right now - come back when we are.

John McCain, ADULTERER, must be PUT TO DEATH

JESUS said, "I tell you that anyone who divorces his wife, except for marital unfaithfulness, and marries another woman commits adultery." (Matthew 19:9; Mark 10:11; Luke 16:18 NIV). John McCain is an ADULTERER. The SEVENTH commandment: "You shall not commit adultery." (Exodus 20:14; Deuteronomy 5:18 NIV). John McCain must be PUT TO DEATH. "If a man commits adultery with another man's wife—with the wife of his neighbor—both the adulterer and the adulteress must be put to death." (Leviticus 20:10 NIV).

I must agree with Patrick and his views. When Senator Obama is happy with a state having separate but equal drinking fountains, schools, and eateries then I buy into his "states' rights" line with respect to marriage. Of course I also agree with others that say Obama is being smart by giving the "states rights" plea, it's called politics.

I seem to recall Hillary correcting Obama at some point in the recent past about the role politics played in the civil rights movement in the 1960s.

Obama spoke of the work of leaders like MLK, but Clinton attempted to correct him by saying that it was LBJ that made the difference not King so much. Rather short sighted of her, and not completely honest.

Again, I did not call anyone a nazi and I am very tired of any trotting out the death camp crap at the drop of a hat. I used the term earlier to make a correlation about playing follow the leader.

And who said anything about Nader? Why are you so desperate to argue with me about something like is pretty unarguable??

Have you read the decision from the court today? Do you disagree with the fact that same sex couples are deserving of having families just like heteros are?

If you do, and you know anything about American history, then you know that it is unacceptable to repeat the bullshit that kept blacks and women waiting for decades and decades while one coward after another allowed one bigot after another to keep it up.

Obama knows better. I don't care what his excuse is. It is indefensible.

As a liberal(ish) straight white male, I have to say I have a different reaction to this ruling. Obviously, I'm happy the gays can get married. Or actually I'm rather indifferent, since it doesn't affect me one way or another (no, I'm not married). But my real reaction is: aarrgh! Why couldn't this happen right after November? This is the best thing that could happen to the Republican party. Prepare for a wave of anti-gay panic to sweep the country. Prepare for anti-gay pandering to "hard-working white Americans" from both the democrats and republicans. Worst of all, the democrats probably lose, say, 10 seats in congress because of this ruling and probably the presidency as well. The Massachusetts ruling was the final nail in Kerry's coffin in '04, and this may well be the deciding factor for Obama too. Like I said, I'm all for the gays getting married, but there's also a lot of other important issues that are going to get ignored or scuttled by Republicans now. Legal gay marriage is inevitable-- why couldn't it wait 6 more months. And no, I'm not saying this is gay-rights activists' fault, just unfortunate timing. Crap.

Newsom for President! He's even hotter than Obama and for extra bonus points he'd make Violet Socks go nuts.

@31: I hear you, and admit those same thoughts came to mind when I first heard the news on NPR while driving home from work earlier. Disclosure: I'm a single straight white guy as well. Ultimately neither Bush's nor Kerry's position on same sex marriage was relevant and it seldom came up in either campaign (Kerry actually was opposed), but Karl Rove was able to scare the rednecks with pictures of boys in San Francisco kissing other boys and therefore paint the Democrats as the party of the gays and the Republicans as defenders of "traditional family values".

But this isn't 2004. The war in Iraq has dragged on, gas is $4 a gallon and rising, homes are being foreclosed, global warming is being taken seriously, Republican politicians are being revealed from Idaho to Louisiana as hypocritical assholes and people want change. The Democrats just won a congressional seat in MISSISSIPPI, for God's sake. Yes, the evangelical dimwits will be suckered by the inevitable Swift Boating of Obama that we can expect for the next six months, but those with three digit IQs will not. If Hillary accomplished nothing else in her endlessly dragged out campaign it was to bring the rural and blue collar white voters into the Democratic party. Yes, some will end up voting for McCain, but if she got these people asking questions about what exactly the Republicans have done for people like them (answer: NOTHING!!) maybe they will finally stop going batshit when they see two women or two men standing at the altar and think about other issues.

@33-- I hope you're right. I guess it comes down to whether you believe most people have "three digit IQs" or not. I'm not optimistic that's the case. It wasn't the case in '04, at least.

Can you all learn to read.
Obama says gay couples should enjoy equal rights under the law.
He then says he will fight for civil unions as president. He doesn't say civil unions are equal to marriage. He says that is what he will fight for. For those without ongoing brain capacity here is a newsflash for you, a dem can't be elected president at this time if they say they are for nationalizing gay marriage. We haven't done our work yet to make that happen.
He then says he respects the decision of the Cal. Sup Ct.
And he closes it with his statement that he believes states should make their own decisions on the specific issue of marriage. And again, for those living in another world, guess what, the GLBT community has adopted a states rights strategy on this issue because of the knowledge that it can't presently be won nationally. It also means he's against national efforts to stop gay marriage in the states.
So whine and bitch all you want but this is the perfect statement for our naminee. Perfect. But of course that comes from someone who actually wants gay rights in this area to advance and also wants a dem for President. And not someone who wants to be outraged that the dem nominee won't choose to set himself up in self defeating move.
Obama's come a long way on the marriage issue during this campaign. And I personally comend it.

"He respects the decision of the California Supreme Court, and continues to believe that states should make their own decisions when it comes to the issue of marriage."

In other words, Obama respects what the court says, but he doesn't agree with this:

"it is difficult to deny that the unfamiliarity of the term "domestic partnership" is likely, for a considerable period of time, to pose significant difficulties and complications for same-sex couples, and perhaps most poignantly for their children, that would not be presented if, like opposite-sex couples, same-sex couples were permitted access to the established and well-understood family relationship of marriage."

...oops did they say domestic partnerships? OhBama supports Civil Unions. Are those the same things? Does that matter? What difference does it make what you call it, right? In OhBama's African American mind it's all good if it's separate, as long as its equal. Silly gays!!

It doesn't matter what was said in the Brown decision, in the Loving decision, in the Lawrence decision...it doesn't matter that he is an attorney and a Senator and a Presidential candidate that can't PUBLICLY support the principles of the Constitution.

He shouldn't be expected to issue a statement of congratulations in his own voice to an oppressed class of citizens. He should ignore them completely because his bigoted and cowardly supporters allow/expect/encourage him to ignore the heritage of African American oppression in this country by saying its OK with him perpetuate illogic, bias, and fear.

Read this analysis and explain to me again why Obama - of all candidates - should think again before pretending he is above the struggles of people that deserve justice.

http://www.bilerico.com/2008/05/the_reasoning_of_the_ca_supreme_court.php#more

I'm sorry you misunderstood my comment Patrick. Obama said he supports equal rights and respects the court decision. He said he will fight for civil unions. He didn't say civil unions were the same as marriage. But he knows it is not an issue that can be won nationally and that no dem running for president can run on a platform of wanting gay marriage nationwide and win. So he will fight for what can be won on a national level for now. There. Now hopefully you understand.
But maybe not so let me put it in my terms. I support gay marriage. I support states giving full marriage equality. I support the federal government bringing civil unions ASAP while the marriage battle continues at the state level. I don't support putting all our eggs in the marriage basket at the federal level because it can't be won right now and I'm tired of reading stories about people being denied the right to visit their family members on their death beds and I don't want my spouse to have to pay inheritance tax on our house if I die before federal marriage comes. And I support fully, Obama's recognition that pushing for gay marriage nationally is an issue that would likely leave us without a dem president or any further expansion of gay rights on the national level.

I'm sorry you (and others) consistently and repeatedly and stubbornly ignore what I am saying.

I fully support Obama's right to live in a nation free from being subjected to ideas of separate but equal public accommodations.

I also believe that he can issue a statement HIMSELF that responds to the court decision without advocating gay cornhole satanic marriage imposed on all Americans.

All he has to say is CONGRATULATIONS.

Is that too dicey? He doesn't have to change one goddamned line in his platform of ambiguous promises. He doesn't have to wear a rainbow pin on his lapel. His wife doesn't have to promise to be my Mama. He doesn't have to talk about how many gay friends he has.

In fact he can vomit in the middle of his statement if it makes him feel more electable and not appear like he has any sympathy at all for filthy, election-ruining homosexuals - but he should have the integrity as an African American man to publicly acknowledge what we all know about the decision and what it says about equal protections - the amendment added after the Civil War was won.

Civil Unions = marriage.

Just get the fuck over the M word. If you get a civil union, no one stops you from calling your partner your husband/wife. As long as the rights that are given are the same, it just doesn't matter.

@ 39, that's how I feel. Also, Obama said what he needed to say and I"m fine with how he said it. One day, us queers will have our Corny Collins Show moment.

It is comforting to know how willfuly ignorant people can be...I laughed at the West Virginians captured by Jon Stewart following CLinton's win.

Now we have the pleasure of hearing complete retardation spew from the mouths of people that didn't even have decency or intelligence to read the decision.

Bravo! Rednecks live in Seattle!!

#39:

Then only civil unions should be available legally for all couples, gay or straight, and "marriage" should come from the religious institution of your choice.

I'm fine with that. But "marriage" for straight people and "civil unions" for gays is still "separate but equal," and that's crap.