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1

snarky comment that belittles the suffering of the protagonist.

Posted by max solomon | May 13, 2008 10:17 AM
2

What does the 20 year old do for work now though?

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | May 13, 2008 10:32 AM
3

oh, mercy. i may vomit.

Posted by scary tyler moore | May 13, 2008 10:47 AM
4

Is this the kind of small business G.W. claims to want to help?

Posted by Greg | May 13, 2008 10:52 AM
5

Ya know, Dan, we GET it. We do. Most of your posts clearly point out the hypocracy of how fathers and mothers living together can still neglect and damage their children.
But there is something unnervingly douchey about using child rape and explotation by someone who is NOT her father, and has been going on for years, with that tiny little quip at the end. Can't you possibly, just once in a while, manage some sympathy for the children you are exploiting to prove your own damn point?

Posted by Marty | May 13, 2008 10:52 AM
6

How do you know the child was traumatized by the experience? I've encountered (and then deliberately avoided) children precocious enough to have promoted such sexual adventures. How do you know said young lady wasn't practicing on her high school classmates when she wasn't getting paid to work on older men?

Posted by dafydd | May 13, 2008 11:24 AM
7

I'll be so glad when the Bush Regime ends ...

Posted by Will in Seattle | May 13, 2008 11:53 AM
8

Hopefully, dafydd @6, you are not being serious. If you are.... wow.

Posted by ??? | May 13, 2008 11:55 AM
9

@6-"The indictment says Barkau began training the girl in 2000 when she was 12, and forced her to engage in sex acts with him and with other men."

You mean her middle school classmates, I take it? Color me skeptical, but I'm going to vote against this guy being powerless in the face of the seductions of a twelve year old. Whether or not she carries trauma from her abuse is another question.

Posted by Beguine | May 13, 2008 12:01 PM
10

@5 I've wondered the same thing, this tedious and vicariously traumatic robot walk Dan insists on doing Slog after Slog. Then it hit me. He just doesn't have many arrows in his quiver. I mean, he's an advice columnist for chrissakes. We're not talking a good fastball hitter.

So, I'm cool with it, like I'm cool with the Downs Syndrome dude taking my order at McDonalds. He can't do much but he sure can push those buttons on the cash register.

Nice job Dan. Find another one!

Posted by Bob | May 13, 2008 12:16 PM
11

Oh, kids. I get sent so many, and post so very, very few. They really have to rise to the level of blah blah blah. And the anti-gay ranters that insist that every child deserves a mother and a father aren't just arguing for kids to remain with their biological parents. They argue that, in those tragic instances when a kid can't be with one or both of his or her biological parents, that child absolutely, positively MUST be placed in a household with one male and one female role model. If that doesn't happen—if a child is placed with, say, fit, sane, screened, home-studied, and qualified same-sex parents—why, that's as good as child abuse.

I'm sorry that these posts annoy some. You are free to spot the headline and scroll on by. But the debate over same-sex parents rages just below, it seems, the pitch or tone that at which straight people can hear it. "Yeah, yeah—we get it, Dan! Enough already!" Yeah, yeah—I get it, it's annoying. It's supposed to be annoying. And these posts will cease when the impugning and smearing of same-sex parents ceases or is met with howls of outrage from all quarters—including yours, Marty & Bob.

Posted by Dan Savage | May 13, 2008 12:24 PM
12

@6,

I guess you missed the part where she was forced into prostitution. Scumbag.

Posted by keshmeshi | May 13, 2008 12:41 PM
13

@11 Hey, we're hollerin'. I'm hollerin' nice and loud over here. And I don't take issue with the "Every child deserves a mother and a father" posts per say... (Though I have been called a terrible person for saying "every child deserves TWO loving parents, in whatever combination you please.")
I just wish, in this particular post anyway, there had been a little less snark and a little bit more keywords like "child services" and "thoughtful argument." It's one thing to structure a thoughtful argument about the meaning of family and love around a brutal situation like this, quite another to exploit an already-expolited child. *Shrugs* But I guess they can't all be gold.

@6 Avoided, eh? Just beating the 12 year olds off with a bat? Or just beating off?

Posted by Marty | May 13, 2008 1:00 PM
14

Thank you Dan. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You bring a voice to so many people who feel the same way. This segment, and the feelings behind it are one that is close to my heart. Please don't stop writing these, and thank you for keeping them coming.

Posted by Homo Will | May 13, 2008 2:18 PM
15

LEAVE DAN ALONE!!! (sobs)


*stolen from a comment to Adrian.

Posted by catnextdoor | May 13, 2008 2:26 PM
16

Dan:

What annoys me about these posts isn't the gratuitous icky-ness. It's the illogical argument. To answer the question of whether gay parents are, on average, better or worse than straight parents (and it is a legitimate question) one needs carefuly analyzed, long-term longitudinal studies with large data sets. This or that annecdote about this or that gay or straight parent who did this or that horrible thing doesn't prove anything. It's pure political theater.

And I do mostly just skip these useless screeds. But you brought up the meta-question as to their role, so I thought I'd weigh in.

Posted by David Wright | May 13, 2008 2:30 PM
17

Don't ever stop with these, Dan.

Posted by Fnarf | May 13, 2008 3:08 PM
18

Not only that, but you really should collect them on a single page; maybe give them their own category tag. The pastor-abuse ones too.

Posted by Fnarf | May 13, 2008 3:12 PM
19

Those studies are being done, and have been done, and the every-child-deserves stuff roars on. When Mitt Romney said it, there were no follow-up questions from the press about what studies have actually shown about gay parents.

Go Google it, David.

Posted by Dan Savage | May 13, 2008 3:40 PM
20

Re: Postscript ...

Um, Dan, that's in 2250 ... you'll be long dead.

Posted by Will in Seattle | May 13, 2008 3:50 PM
21

I'm not a fan of everything you've ever done, Dan, but when you're doing what you were meant to do, usually nobody else is doing it at all or you do it better than anyone else who ever has.

This is one of those times. Don't ever stop until it's time to stop. This is as brilliant as it is necessary.

Posted by whatevernevermind | May 13, 2008 5:06 PM
22

Well if annoying is this year's orange. Knock yourself out. Just don't pretend you're using any legitimate logic here to persuade anyone. Fact is, you don't prove a positive by proving the negative. EVEN IF EVERY MOM AND DAD SUCKED AND ABUSED THEIR KIDS AND DESERVED ETERNAL TORMENT IN A BATH OF MOLTEN TITANIUM it still doesn't mean one single gay couple should have kids.

For that, you need a new argument.

But keep flailing. It's sort of fun to watch.

Posted by Bob | May 13, 2008 5:39 PM
23

Let me try this one more way, I have no problems with same sex parents, I'm a big supporter of parents who will love and guide and nurture their kids regardless of gender and sexuality. What I'm not getting is how dragging the worst of the worst out on a regular basis somehow makes you think that it proves same sex parenting is good. Is that really the standard you want to compare yourself too? That you're better than a meth'd out mom who sticks a fork in her infant's vagina? Yeah, there is worse real life shit than you find. I work in the field.

So, is that the point? "Hey we're gay and we're better than heterosexual parents who put cigarettes out on their toddler's arms!"

Jesus.

The other part that you totally don't get as you swim in your swamp of self righteousness is how degrading and re-victimizing it is to use the horrid abuse that happens to these children for your political point.

It's plain wrong. The fact you don't get it and choose to justify it makes me question your judgement. The fact you have a fan club of howling Danfans changes nothing. Nothing.

Dig a little deeper, you're a bright and clever dude, find another way to make this important point. This is just quicksand.

Posted by Bob | May 13, 2008 5:58 PM
24

Keep it up, Dan. There's plenty of us here who appreciate it, even if we don't always bother to engage with the "outraged dissenters" in the comments. Thanks again.

Posted by CheshireKatz | May 13, 2008 6:34 PM
25

Dan, I totally adore you for fighting fire with fire. If the morons on the other side are going to argue that ANY M&F parenting is better than ALL same-sex parenting, it's best to just point out the absurdity in the voice that will be heard best - usually a scathing one, dripping with venom. And if some people don't like to hear the venomous jibing of the fools out there, perhaps they should open their mouths and say something first so that those of us with fangs aren't the only one's opining.

Posted by Kev Hamm | May 13, 2008 10:11 PM

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