Slog - Comments on Every Child Deserves a Mother and a Father

Comment by max solomon

max solomon — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:17:54 -0800

snarky comment that belittles the suffering of the protagonist.

Comment by Cato the Younger Younger

Cato the Younger Younger — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:32:38 -0800

What does the 20 year old do for work now though?

Comment by scary tyler moore

scary tyler moore — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:47:31 -0800

oh, mercy. i may vomit.

Comment by Greg

Greg — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:52:03 -0800

Is this the kind of small business G.W. claims to want to help?

Comment by Marty

Marty — Tue, 13 May 2008 10:52:43 -0800

Ya know, Dan, we GET it. We do. Most of your posts clearly point out the hypocracy of how fathers and mothers living together can still neglect and damage their children.
But there is something unnervingly douchey about using child rape and explotation by someone who is NOT her father, and has been going on for years, with that tiny little quip at the end. Can't you possibly, just once in a while, manage some sympathy for the children you are exploiting to prove your own damn point?

Comment by dafydd

dafydd — Tue, 13 May 2008 11:24:11 -0800

How do you know the child was traumatized by the experience? I've encountered (and then deliberately avoided) children precocious enough to have promoted such sexual adventures. How do you know said young lady wasn't practicing on her high school classmates when she wasn't getting paid to work on older men?

Comment by Will in Seattle

Will in Seattle — Tue, 13 May 2008 11:53:09 -0800

I'll be so glad when the Bush Regime ends ...

Comment by ???

??? — Tue, 13 May 2008 11:55:27 -0800

Hopefully, dafydd @6, you are not being serious. If you are.... wow.

Comment by Beguine

Beguine — Tue, 13 May 2008 12:01:54 -0800

@6-"The indictment says Barkau began training the girl in 2000 when she was 12, and forced her to engage in sex acts with him and with other men."

You mean her middle school classmates, I take it? Color me skeptical, but I'm going to vote against this guy being powerless in the face of the seductions of a twelve year old. Whether or not she carries trauma from her abuse is another question.

Comment by Bob

Bob — Tue, 13 May 2008 12:16:17 -0800

@5 I've wondered the same thing, this tedious and vicariously traumatic robot walk Dan insists on doing Slog after Slog. Then it hit me. He just doesn't have many arrows in his quiver. I mean, he's an advice columnist for chrissakes. We're not talking a good fastball hitter.

So, I'm cool with it, like I'm cool with the Downs Syndrome dude taking my order at McDonalds. He can't do much but he sure can push those buttons on the cash register.

Nice job Dan. Find another one!

Comment by Dan Savage

Dan Savage — Tue, 13 May 2008 12:24:11 -0800

Oh, kids. I get sent so many, and post so very, very few. They really have to rise to the level of blah blah blah. And the anti-gay ranters that insist that every child deserves a mother and a father aren't just arguing for kids to remain with their biological parents. They argue that, in those tragic instances when a kid can't be with one or both of his or her biological parents, that child absolutely, positively MUST be placed in a household with one male and one female role model. If that doesn't happen�if a child is placed with, say, fit, sane, screened, home-studied, and qualified same-sex parents�why, that's as good as child abuse.

I'm sorry that these posts annoy some. You are free to spot the headline and scroll on by. But the debate over same-sex parents rages just below, it seems, the pitch or tone that at which straight people can hear it. "Yeah, yeah�we get it, Dan! Enough already!" Yeah, yeah�I get it, it's annoying. It's supposed to be annoying. And these posts will cease when the impugning and smearing of same-sex parents ceases or is met with howls of outrage from all quarters�including yours, Marty & Bob.

Comment by keshmeshi

keshmeshi — Tue, 13 May 2008 12:41:20 -0800

@6,

I guess you missed the part where she was forced into prostitution. Scumbag.

Comment by Marty

Marty — Tue, 13 May 2008 13:00:22 -0800

@11 Hey, we're hollerin'. I'm hollerin' nice and loud over here. And I don't take issue with the "Every child deserves a mother and a father" posts per say... (Though I have been called a terrible person for saying "every child deserves TWO loving parents, in whatever combination you please.")
I just wish, in this particular post anyway, there had been a little less snark and a little bit more keywords like "child services" and "thoughtful argument." It's one thing to structure a thoughtful argument about the meaning of family and love around a brutal situation like this, quite another to exploit an already-expolited child. *Shrugs* But I guess they can't all be gold.

@6 Avoided, eh? Just beating the 12 year olds off with a bat? Or just beating off?

Comment by Homo Will

Homo Will — Tue, 13 May 2008 14:18:30 -0800

Thank you Dan. Thank you from the bottom of my heart. You bring a voice to so many people who feel the same way. This segment, and the feelings behind it are one that is close to my heart. Please don't stop writing these, and thank you for keeping them coming.

Comment by catnextdoor

catnextdoor — Tue, 13 May 2008 14:26:32 -0800

LEAVE DAN ALONE!!! (sobs)

*stolen from a comment to Adrian.

Comment by David Wright

David Wright — Tue, 13 May 2008 14:30:20 -0800

Dan:

What annoys me about these posts isn't the gratuitous icky-ness. It's the illogical argument. To answer the question of whether gay parents are, on average, better or worse than straight parents (and it is a legitimate question) one needs carefuly analyzed, long-term longitudinal studies with large data sets. This or that annecdote about this or that gay or straight parent who did this or that horrible thing doesn't prove anything. It's pure political theater.

And I do mostly just skip these useless screeds. But you brought up the meta-question as to their role, so I thought I'd weigh in.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Tue, 13 May 2008 15:08:56 -0800

Don't ever stop with these, Dan.

Comment by Fnarf

Fnarf — Tue, 13 May 2008 15:12:38 -0800

Not only that, but you really should collect them on a single page; maybe give them their own category tag. The pastor-abuse ones too.

Comment by Dan Savage

Dan Savage — Tue, 13 May 2008 15:40:02 -0800

Those studies are being done, and have been done, and the every-child-deserves stuff roars on. When Mitt Romney said it, there were no follow-up questions from the press about what studies have actually shown about gay parents.

Go Google it, David.

Comment by Will in Seattle

Will in Seattle — Tue, 13 May 2008 15:50:56 -0800

Re: Postscript ...

Um, Dan, that's in 2250 ... you'll be long dead.

Comment by whatevernevermind

whatevernevermind — Tue, 13 May 2008 17:06:09 -0800

I'm not a fan of everything you've ever done, Dan, but when you're doing what you were meant to do, usually nobody else is doing it at all or you do it better than anyone else who ever has.

This is one of those times. Don't ever stop until it's time to stop. This is as brilliant as it is necessary.

Comment by Bob

Bob — Tue, 13 May 2008 17:39:04 -0800

Well if annoying is this year's orange. Knock yourself out. Just don't pretend you're using any legitimate logic here to persuade anyone. Fact is, you don't prove a positive by proving the negative. EVEN IF EVERY MOM AND DAD SUCKED AND ABUSED THEIR KIDS AND DESERVED ETERNAL TORMENT IN A BATH OF MOLTEN TITANIUM it still doesn't mean one single gay couple should have kids.

For that, you need a new argument.

But keep flailing. It's sort of fun to watch.

Comment by Bob

Bob — Tue, 13 May 2008 17:58:15 -0800

Let me try this one more way, I have no problems with same sex parents, I'm a big supporter of parents who will love and guide and nurture their kids regardless of gender and sexuality. What I'm not getting is how dragging the worst of the worst out on a regular basis somehow makes you think that it proves same sex parenting is good. Is that really the standard you want to compare yourself too? That you're better than a meth'd out mom who sticks a fork in her infant's vagina? Yeah, there is worse real life shit than you find. I work in the field.

So, is that the point? "Hey we're gay and we're better than heterosexual parents who put cigarettes out on their toddler's arms!"

Jesus.

The other part that you totally don't get as you swim in your swamp of self righteousness is how degrading and re-victimizing it is to use the horrid abuse that happens to these children for your political point.

It's plain wrong. The fact you don't get it and choose to justify it makes me question your judgement. The fact you have a fan club of howling Danfans changes nothing. Nothing.

Dig a little deeper, you're a bright and clever dude, find another way to make this important point. This is just quicksand.

Comment by CheshireKatz

CheshireKatz — Tue, 13 May 2008 18:34:53 -0800

Keep it up, Dan. There's plenty of us here who appreciate it, even if we don't always bother to engage with the "outraged dissenters" in the comments. Thanks again.

Comment by Kev Hamm

Kev Hamm — Tue, 13 May 2008 22:11:23 -0800

Dan, I totally adore you for fighting fire with fire. If the morons on the other side are going to argue that ANY M&F parenting is better than ALL same-sex parenting, it's best to just point out the absurdity in the voice that will be heard best - usually a scathing one, dripping with venom. And if some people don't like to hear the venomous jibing of the fools out there, perhaps they should open their mouths and say something first so that those of us with fangs aren't the only one's opining.