2008 A Theory on Clinton and the Gays
posted by on March 10 at 10:15 AM
At a cocktail party this weekend I was talking to a friend and his boyfriend - both are rabid Clintonites - and I’m asking questions like Why did she attack Rick Lazio for not releasing his taxes, yet now she is doing the same? Why did Bill refuse to release his medical records when he ran even though Dole did, is this a pattern with them? If she takes credit for Bill’s presidency then shouldn’t she be tarred with DOMA?And listening to his defense I realized what it reminded me of. It wasn’t the defense of a politician whom he admired, he sounded like somebody 40 years older defending Judy Garland or Liza Minelli: “Oh, life has been so cruel to them, but didn’t they come through it with fire and glamour?!”.
Perhaps Hillary constantly playing the victim has worked somewhat. Apparently my gay brethern don’t feel like they are defending a politics, they feel that they are sticking up for a tragic aging Diva whoes life and glamour is fading but who can always count on her shrinking gay fan club to buy up every ticket to her “Comeback Concert”.
It reminds me of the line out of Absolutely Fabulous, Eddie says to her gay ex husband when he comments on how fabulous Patsy’s older sister is. “A bitch with a drug habit and you’re anybody’s aren’t you.”
Sullivan is insulting gays with this kind of crap.
Gays, women, and Obama supporters.
I was just talking to my friend last night about this. We're both gay. He was in DC over the weekend for an event attended by many in the lgbt community and he was floored by the support for Hillary. And they couldn't explain why. It was mostly, like, "She's FIERCE!"
Chill, @1 & @2 - Sullivan didn't write this, it was sent in to him and he posted it. And I might add, I think it's spot-on in terms of diagnosing the malady that afflicts a lot of the gay Clinton supporters I've talked to. If people are insulted by having their own views highlighted in this way, they should examine their views.
seriously. and once again. the sullivan shit doesn't help yours or anyone's case. i'm almost at the point where i'd vote for anyone who sullivan hates, just cuz. he's the stranger's new chris crocker.
Hey Eli, could you and Dan talk to Amy Kate about putting a giant link to Andrew Sullivan's blog at the top of SLOG? Like, a really really big one?
"Sullivan is insulting gays with this kind of crap."
Belvue Ave,
Um, gays are insulting themselves with this kind of crap. Sullivan isn't insulting anyone.
I actually think Sullivan is on to something. I think gay men that are political and choosing Clinton or Obama for a variety of reasons. However, among the completely apolitical, never-follow-politics gay men that I know (I'm gay too) there does seem to be an automatic instinct to go with the woman candidate. And yes, some of my gay male friends have defended their choice with "she's fierce". Never mind DOMA, never mind Obama actually talking about gay people in mainstream rallies whereas Clinton just does it at $1000 a plate HRC dinners.
The difference might just be striking to me because straight people my generation seem to be gravitiating toward Obama if they are otherwise not especially political. The "rock star" quality, I guess.
I gave up on the Clinton's when they threw the gays under the bus with Don't Ask,Don't Tell in 1993. That was a rough year for the gays, what with the AIDS and all, and I their betrayal personally. I still do.
I'll vote for Hillary if that's what I have to do, but it's not a proud or inspired vote. It's a only a vote to keep the Repugs out of office.
So reinforcing the stereotype of vapid gay males who only discuss things in the currency of celebrity and persecuted females is a good thing?
There's nothing "fierce" about not supporting the full repeal of the Defense of Marriage Act. Hillary supports a partial repeal, while Obama (who taught constitutional law at Chicago, btw) favors a full repeal. The question gay folks ought to be asking Hillary is: why are you willing to withhold a portion of my rights?
Clinton is all about Triangulation - and that means No Gays in the Military (could have just Ordered them to do it) and DOMA.
Be careful what you wish for - Sen Clinton won't be there when it matters, she'll be triangulated somewhere else ... always has, always will ...
Funny how no matter who she throws under the bus to get elected (like say, the ENTIRE Democratic party) gays can't fathom that she might do the same to us to win the general election...
or maybe some just prefer to be doormats.
I am totally not surprised that there are so many gays supporting Clinton in Seattle, totally understandable as most gay guys here are "bend over for anything bottoms"
And since they like being the "victim" they will support the victimizer.
As much as it seems to me that Obama has been more supportive of gay rights than Clinton in the ways that matter, this does remind me of the "oh, young people only support Obama because he's charismatic and hip and they're intellectually lazy whippersnappers who don't read the books that we used to read which we got from the library after walking through three feet of snow uphill" argument (which, as a young Obama supporter, I am not terribly fond of). It might be comforting to the people supporting the other candidate, but it's rather superficial and I doubt many gay Clinton supporters will read this, 'see the error of their ways', and suddenly start supporting Obama.
Just how many times do the Clintons have to betray queers before we get the message that we are simply yet another group to be mined for votes and campaign cash?
And, no, Hillarians, don't bring up the Obama McClurkin kerfuffle--that single, stupid campaign-staff misstep didn't boot anyone out of the service, deny them a pension, ruin their career, waste millions of dollars or deny them federal recognition of equal rights. And I don't hear Obama making radio ads bragging about homophobia like Bill Clinton bragged about signing DOMA while campaigning for re-election in 1996.
Yes, I know Hillary has promised to repeal Don't Ask/Tell/Pursue, but only PART of DOMA (Obama wants it completely gone). So we're worthy of only SOME marriage rights? What part of DOMA do we need to keep and why, Hillary supporters?
In addition to the Bette-Davis-of-politics theory, is this some sort of subconscious "please, Billary, may I have another" political masochism?
Fasten your seat belts, it's gonna be a bumpy election.
our state democrats voted. why keep picking? and why use sullivan (a gay republican) who hates "the clintons" so much? also, is there some poll data about the gays loving hillary, i didn't realize this...give me a break "she is fierce", how insulting.
#17: its insulting cuz its true.
Go to Purr on a Friday night and ask around.
@16, agreed. It will be a bumpy election. Watch Clinton run to the center right if she's the candidate. The homos will have to lump it for another 4-8 years.
For you homos that actually believe Hillary or Bill has been good to us, the choice Hillary and republicans is a bit like choosing between a cold and the flu. I'd rather not have either one, but if I have to choose I'd rather have the cold.
Final thought: I'm a hard core Dem. I still hold my nose everytime I vote for Patty Murray. Her vote for DOMA showed how spineless she actually is. I think her vote is actually worse than Clinton signing the bill because she comes from a relatively blue state. I'd vote to keep
@16, agreed. It will be a bumpy election. Watch Clinton run to the center right if she's the candidate. The homos will have to lump it for another 4-8 years.
For you homos that actually believe Hillary or Bill has been good to us, the choice Hillary and republicans is a bit like choosing between a cold and the flu. I'd rather not have either one, but if I have to choose I'd rather have the cold.
Final thought: I'm a hard core Dem. I still hold my nose everytime I vote for Patty Murray. Her vote for DOMA showed how spineless she actually is. I think her vote is actually worse than Clinton signing the bill because she comes from a relatively blue state.
???the first woman president???
???no traction???
I am a rad gay and every person I know supports Hilary, and of course we are all in control bottoms, you fools who think all that friction hurts, hah hah.
FYI, Andrew Sullivan is a joke in Seattle gay rad circles (and that sissy is sure not a top, and not an in control Seattle bottom))
Hillary is Fierce! :)
So get over it...
The politics in 1993 and 1996 were much different than they are today.
To quote Britney Spears:
"HUH!?"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WudobNbQLck
Matt @3, I'm not surprised about the gays in D.C. After living there, I can tell you that there is an undercurrent of racism there. Not everyone, but there is an element.
"Fierce" might work make for great drama and well for movie divas and drag queens, but it's hardly a description I want in a president and Leader of the Free World, male OR female.
Did we learn nothing from the obstinate intractible lunacy of the "Decider" in Chief currently in the White House?
'fierce" sounds like a word used to discribe richerd nixon or john mccain.
(note: I'm not compairing john mccain to richerd nixon, john mccain has many personal qualitys and life experiances that i admire....I just think he's make a bad bomb crazy president....kind of how mainstream americam thinks of jimmy carter...good man...bad prez)
She sucks.
@ 24 That's disgusting to blame gay support of Hillary on racism!
That's like saying everyone supporting Obama, including the gays, is a homophobe and supports conversion therapy and opposes gay marriage and San Francisco.
Gay Seattle, get real. I didn't blame her support on racism. I simply said that I'm not surprised that SOME of her supporters are racists, just like some of his are sexists. The Pennsylvania Gov said as much. And he is one of her supporters. Why are you so defensive?
i don't understand the controversy over who gays should support. a simple look at the facts, voting history and public statements makes it crystal clear as many on this string have already said.
billary = don't ask, don't tell; doma; now partial doma repeal.
obama = full doma repeal; constant mention of gay support on stump speeches (including to unfriendly audiences); support of federal civil unions.
while obama is a bit of a question mark b/c he has a shorter history, there's no question that the clintons have and will continue to throw gays under the fucking bus. open your eyes, queens.
Gay guys are just giddy and hysterical for Hillary, I suppose.
@14, Andrew that's an unfair characterization of bottoms. Why is it we always have to put down the "bottom" role?? As a top I am very happy that there are bottoms and they are certainly not victims. Talk about insulting gays. It takes two to tango and if you are a top dancing a lot more fun with a bottom.
But back on topic. Hillary has to address the Clinton legacy of being token supporters of gay rights. From all I can see her campaign is Clinton Part 3, the revenge which means the gays will get some lip service, but no substantive action on our issues. And if push comes to shove we will be watching the undercarriage of the next right-wing bigot bus that comes along.
If push comes to shove, will the Obama Bottom Caucus rise up against Clinton?
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