"Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and her advisers increasingly believe that, after a series of losses, she has been boxed into a must-win position in the Ohio and Texas primaries on March 4, and she has begun reassuring anxious donors and superdelegates that the nomination is not slipping away from her, aides said on Monday."
"Traders wagering on the outcome of the U.S. presidential vote were overwhelmingly betting on Monday that Illinois Sen. Barack Obama will defeat former first lady Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination and ultimately win the presidency."
Ouch; black, female and lesbian. Can't wait to see people flocking to the republitards on that one. You can pretty much guarantee the next 16 years of war profiteering after an 8 year McCain run then 8 years of Rice.
Wow, we are certainly starting at a high level of discourse today. Ha, ha, ha.
Juvenile gloating, racist and misogynistic jokes aside, the reality is a McCain/Rice ticket offers some rather positive features for the GOP:
-very strong on foreign policy. A double headed foreign policy powerhouse.
(Obama's weak point, btw, to all those nonleft wing voters out there in the parts of America most of us here fled from!)
--biracial and bigender.
Makes the GOP more new and more of a change (on this superficial identity politics level) than Obama.
--HUGE ability to draw those independents.
(The ones that folks think somehow Obama can keep getting though we haven't had a single poll or lectoral contest to look at after the GOP attack machine kicks into gear to bring him down 17 points like it did Kerry, etc.)
--Lots of positive media fascination, a new narrative.
Basically if an African American candidate is new and different, and a woman candidate is new and different,
then it's rather obvious that an African American female candidate is MORE new and different.
But again, I provoke people by pointing out facts and making what might be described as arguments, while some folks are more interested in stupid and lewd jokes, cheerleading off topic, and eschew anything that remotely resembles "thought" or rational discourse.
Yes, it's sooooo uncomfortable to let a "begative" thought into your brain. that can happen when you try to fairly evaluate pros and cons of any particular development. You know that method -- where you draw a line down the page and consider BOTH pros and cons?
Rather than ignore one side, so that each and every piece of new data can reinforce your pre-existing conclusions/feelings/"opinions" and cognitive structures ?
This ticket would also have great negatives, principally not that she's a lesbian (who knows?) but she's just not......married.
People like people who are like them and we are still anti-single in this society. Plus you lose some racists and misogynists, AND most of all, NO ONE should ever be picked who hasn't been in the national media scrutiny as shown with the Eagleton debacle. Youngsters, look it up on google. And no, Rice has NOT gotten the full media scrutiny yet. She'd have to have answers about the economy, the mortgage meltdown, gay marriage, the whole range of issues and it's pretty risky to take those who haven't been through it before and thrust them on the ticket and think they'll do just fine. They tend to screw up.
Strong on foreign policy? Rice is two things: completely incompetent on foreign policy (her traditional specialty is the Eastern Bloc, fer chrissakes) and a shitty liar.
Larry King is such a joke. Why ask Michelle Obama is she thinks McCain will ask Rice to be VP? Michelle Obama? Really Larry? That's like asking Pat Robertson, "Do you think Fred Phelps really hates gays?"
Meanwhile, A Daily Show's guest last night (who wrote a book on the 9/11 commission) bsically said that Rice bore the most individual responsibility for 9/11 (okay, he didn't say that, but he strongly implied it).
Michelle Obama was really good on Larry King I thought. Her aswers to some of his questions were, well, perfect from a campaigning standpoint (e.g., I haven't been suprised by anything in terms of what it would be like to campaign -- basically the same thing as when he was running for IL and US Senate, only more people are watching)...
#10-- Are you just brain dead?
your assertion that foreign policy is "Obama's weak point, btw, to all those nonleft wing voters out there in the parts of America most of us here fled from" is as far off as you can get. I'm in that part of America and many Repubs and Independents are sick of their war party, and its one of the things bringing them to Obama. Plus, he doesn't demonize them but instead invites them to join him. Haven't you noticed that its the middle america states where Obama is simply knocking Hillary's lights out. And I know from family relatives who are long time Republicans that its real. So wake up already. I don't know what election returns you are watching but Obama has every chance to take traditionally repub states, like Colorado, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, (or at the very least helping get more democrats elected from those states), and his chances will just increase if the Repubs start trumpeting more militarty invasions and an endless Iraq. It's their local high school sports heros that are dying in this damn war and when the lucky few that make it back from Iraq return they are saying that without change this will never end. There are a ton of red states in middle america that elect a progressive dem to the senate or governor if the candidate has good ideas and doesn't demonize the republican party. Obama sees that and knows that.
Posted by
Mike in Iowa |
February 12, 2008 7:56 AM
I would highly doubt that ticket. I think that Condi lost a lot of faith with how poorly all the middle east countries are doing, and most conservatives don't really like her. She doesn't appeal to religious voters or conservatives, and most all minorities are voting Dem.
I think more likely, McCain will be picking a southern GOP senator. Not sure who yet, but I think that is where he will need to go to.
I also, as I have said forever...I think he might pick Guiliani. Because your average republican would drool over that ticket. The conservatives might come out for Guiliani.
But no, I would highly doubt condi would get the ticket.
Posted by
Original Monique |
February 12, 2008 8:33 AM
Oh man, would that ticket be comedy gold. They'd have to find Condi Rice, first, though -- she sort of vanished at least a year ago. What a singularly unprincipled and unqualified administration official she turned out to be.
Really Mike where do you think McCain is getting his support in the national polls? California and NY? Where do you think the biggest concentration of Clinton haters reside (not counting this board)? Maybe like the Midwest and other brain-dead areas that put bozo boy in office. Where did a very savvy Obama campaign that HRC didn't much? Red states. Why? Because she was putting money and time where there is a decent chance to win in November. He was playing for the nomination. Very smart for getting the nomination.
Look at the results from the past and at the current national polling and try to put together a way that the Dems are going to carry Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Nebraska. Or South Carolina, Georgia, Virginia and North Carolina like another Obama supporter is wishing for.
After a great run Obama leads Mc by a couple points and RHC after a terrible run is down by by a couple of points. Go look at the polling and get a clue that this will be close in November and the red states will not suddendly take a left turn. Obama's greatest challenge is to bring his supporters up to speed.
I highly doubt that McCain will select Rice as his running mate. He has a bit of a dilemma. If he selects a moderate running mate (Hegel, Lieberman?), the conservative base that already dislikes/trusts him will stay home, or maybe even vote for Barack Obama to teach the Republican party a lesson. If McCain selects a conservative (Sanford, Crist, Barbour?), he risks alienating the moderates and independents that he takes such great pride in attracting. I expect McCain will head right ... and lose. As for Barack Obama, I have a strong sense that he will select a running mate that will augment his strengths: bipartisan and Middle America appeal, Washington "outsider" status, historic candidacy, etc. That running mate is Kansas governor Kathleen Sebelius. (She delivered the Democratic response to Bush's most recent State of the Union.) Some will lobby for Bill Richardson, a person I greatly admire, but I think Richardson would make a stronger Secretary of State; I also think that Richardson would prefer that position to the VP.
mccain rice would be great. that way, regardless of who won, there would still be a long overdue change in one of the nation's top offices.
but i don't think it will happen.
macain needs to appeal to people he doesn't appeal to. rice is basically the same crowd. it's sad to say, but i don't think that the typical repub is not going to consider a woman or an african american a bonus. he doesn't win any of the religious right with rice. and he doesn't appeal to people more liberal than him either. in fact, for the repubs not wanting to vote for a woman or an african american, this gives them more of an excuse to vote for obama or clinton.
no, it would be great for america, but i'm not sure it would help the republican ticket that much. so, i'm thinking it won't happen.
now a huckabee mccain, or a huckabee rice (or even romney rice) would all work. basically, rice and mccain are interchangeable.
@Bub...I totally agree with you about Richardson. However I disagree about Kathleen. I think she isn't near charismatic enough, nor can she really attract the voters that Obama needs, the lower class white vote, and the older white woman vote.
He doesn't do well with either. So he needs a running mate that can help him capture it.
But I still have doubts he will take the nom. And I am still rooting for Hillary.
Posted by
Original Monique |
February 12, 2008 9:34 AM
@31 - Kansas is hardly latte-liberal land, and Sebelius is a very popular, successful liberal governor. I think she could bring a lot of unexpected constituencies into the Obama fold, and that on its own makes her a very compelling VP candidate in my mind. The only potential drawback might be a perceived lack of foreign policy muscle on the ticket.
@31 - agree about Kathleen. She doesn't have the prominence or charisma at this point. Richardson would be good... I would love Clinton if Obama gets the nod, but probably not going to happen.
On the Republican side, I feel like a Huckabee VP nod is inevitable. He gets the fundies and the reddest of red states. In some ways, I would be okay with this -- Huckabee is flat out crazy (does re-writing the Consitution to be in line with God's word freak the shit out of anyone else?), but I do think McCain would rein him in and he might just focus on his whole true compassionate conservatism thing (helping the poor, etc.). That is, assuming McCain doesn't kick the bucket while in office.
Don't get me wrong. Not going to vote for the fuckers, but still.
Richardson could be a good choice for Obama. It would help Obama with Hispanic voters, where he is weak now (see California, Arizona, New Mexico primary results). Richardson's foreign policy experience would also be a plus.
I'm just not sure how this would appeal to voters east of the Mississippi.
Here's how the Dems handle Condi's expertise in national security:
"Secretary Rice, can you again explain to us why you ignored the Aug. 6, 2001 daily intelligence briefing entitled "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the U.S.'?"
You people are looking at this from the wrong perspective. From the viewpoint of the hard-right loons who are attacking McCain as a "traitor", and who still slavishly support President Bush (some 30% of Republicans still think he's one of the greatest Presidents in our history), Condi Rice is a great hero. They LOVE her absolutely and unconditionally. Race doesn't matter; it's only Democrats who fret that blacks or women are unelectable. Rice would help heal the big wound down the center of the party. The goal for them at this point is, what can we do to prevent a third-party kook kristian kandidate from jumping in. Rice might be the one. She's not a kook, but she's extremely kook-friendly, due to her close association with Jesus Georgie Porgy there.
Fnarf: Condi is "a great hero"? See my point in #37.
As to whether Condi would attract the "kook kristian" crowd, I understand that Condi isn't quite so anti-gay. I believe she's expressed support for civil unions. She's a sure way to get James Dobson to his mind on McCain!
Thomas, FNARF said, "according to republican loons." its pretty clear.
i agree, i think a condi old man mccain tickets poses some problems and she is an alabaman(?) so it could help get some of them southern votes he is gonna be lacking. i don't think she will do it, and it's looking more like an old man jesus ticket.
Hey 25,
You're correct, Obama won't win S. Carolina, but to think North Carolina, the Dakotas, and other states that have shown their moderation by electing Dem. senators or governors won't possibly go for Obama simply views those states as fitting in with the Oklahomas in the world when they don't. For example, in 2006 South Dakota voters (who gave us George McGovern)almost defeated a gay marriage amendment, 52-48, and elected a Dem. Senator. Nebraska, Missouri and North Dakota also have Dem. Senators, while Kansas has a Dem. Govern. Of course Obama won't pick up all of the red states, but he will pick up a few, and will help add to the Dem. Senators and Representatives from the midwest to create a working majority. With Hillary at the top of the ticket senators and representatives running in moderate states would start with a significant handicap. And, if elected, she would start with a significantly weaker hand and a united Republican Party. I used to be among those who didn't care that Hillary garnered such hatred, and even had a yard sign up for her for awhile. But as she got down and dirty in Iowa I realized I had been blind to her ugly side and got a better understandign of why she was so polarizing. If you disagree with her, in her eyes and apparently those of her supporters, you are uninformed. Obama, meanwhile, met differences of opinion with respect and an explanation of why he felt differently.
It's no fluke that the more time Obama is able to spend in a state the more he is likely to win it. As the more voters become informed about their differences the more they move to Obama.
Posted by
Mike in Iowa |
February 12, 2008 10:31 AM
Race doesn't matter; it's only Democrats who fret that blacks or women are unelectable.
Good point. Bush did more for putting minorities in prominent positions than any Democrat. TWO black Secretaries of State, a black National Security Adviser, and a Hispanic Attorney General ... You've gotta admit that's outside the stereotypical exclusive Republican box, and conservatives didn't even seem to notice. It's only Democrats that are creaming themselves over electability.
Mike In Iowa--
You are either completely ignorant of reality or have never been to any of those Red States. ND and the like will NEVER go to a democrat. Are you fucking serious?
Montana, for example, has a democratic governor and two senators, but that's because local politics are much different than national ones. Different factors come into play, and party politics aren't as rigid along partisan lines.
However, you are deluded to think to think these states would ever go to a democratic nominee, either Clinton or Obama.
Posted by
group therapy |
February 12, 2008 11:06 AM
Just look at Virginia - ballot requests in 2000 and 2004 were 2:1 GOP:Dem - in 2008 party registration and ballot requests and returned ballots (mail-in) are all 2:1 Dem:GOP.
Rice is a Presbyterian, of the PC(USA) -- not a religious kook by any means. Presbyterians are a mainstream, moderate denomination. That doesn't mean she hasn't associated herself politically with more fundamentalist Christian contingents, which is a pretty common pattern among Christian politicians (See: Tim Burgess). Better to align yourself with brothers and sisters of the faith than to alienate yourself from them, you know? I get where she's coming from on the religious ally front.
Katelyn, I didn't say Rice was a kook; I said she's acceptable to kooks, largely because of her association with the man they consider to be divinely inspired: our President.
Infrequent @48, I would say it has to do with a right-wing preference for STRUCTURAL impediments to racial and gender equality, as opposed to personal ones.
ok, my mis informed friends, you really want to compare Iowa to a Red State like ND? The last time ND went for a Democratic nominee? 1936: FDR. 1940 and 1944 they voted against him, for Dewey. In a time of war. I could go on and on and on with all of the Red States and examples for almost every last one of them. But of course you don't like those pesky facts, do you? No, it's much easier to pretend that Obama through sheer willpower can spread his message of hope and make every conservative state a bastion of progressive thought.
You were saying...?
Posted by
group therapy |
February 12, 2008 11:31 AM
Ooops, one correction. ND did go for Johnson, a very popular president at the time, over Goldwater, who is considered one of the worst Republican candidates of all time. So while McCain may not unite the Republican party into a frenzy, Goldwater he ain't!
Posted by
group therapy |
February 12, 2008 11:39 AM
While not all the racists are in the GOP, and not all the GOP are racists, it is still axiomatic that there are one whole hell of a lot of racists in the GOP. Many, if not most, of those will be damned uncomfortable marking a ballot that puts a black woman one heartbeat away from leader of the free world when the top spot is going to an 80-year-old man in ill health.
No, they've got to find a way to get Jeb in there. They won't put him directly on the ticket; the name Bush is the kiss of death right now and they know it. But they'll put some placeholder in there who can take the spot when McCain dies two years into his term who won't challenge Jebbie for the nomination in 2012 after he's been appointed to the vacant VP slot.
Yay! all the war cheerleaders on one ticket!
If what the Bush camp accused him of back in 2000 were true, we could say McCain will be havin' him a lil' Dirty Rice.
It's not true of course, but I just wanted to imagine Condoleeza in a compromising position and refer to her as Dirty Rice.
I'm sure this is going to appeal to the GOP base... If you listen closely you can hear the squeaking rats fleeing the ship.
Meanwhile according to the NYTimes:
"Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton and her advisers increasingly believe that, after a series of losses, she has been boxed into a must-win position in the Ohio and Texas primaries on March 4, and she has begun reassuring anxious donors and superdelegates that the nomination is not slipping away from her, aides said on Monday."
She's very close to toast.
and from Reuters:
"Traders wagering on the outcome of the U.S. presidential vote were overwhelmingly betting on Monday that Illinois Sen. Barack Obama will defeat former first lady Hillary Clinton for the Democratic nomination and ultimately win the presidency."
Ouch; black, female and lesbian. Can't wait to see people flocking to the republitards on that one. You can pretty much guarantee the next 16 years of war profiteering after an 8 year McCain run then 8 years of Rice.
Gruße aus Hamburg, Jungs.
Oh, the hell with this ticket.
ECB and all the clear thinkers have it worked out!
http://img108.imageshack.us/img108/7987/itchyhillary08ve0.jpg
NonononoBANG!
Great. Rats off the GOP Titanic and mice onto Hillary's Love Boat. Cute. :)
"Dirty Rice"?
Wow, we are certainly starting at a high level of discourse today. Ha, ha, ha.
Juvenile gloating, racist and misogynistic jokes aside, the reality is a McCain/Rice ticket offers some rather positive features for the GOP:
-very strong on foreign policy. A double headed foreign policy powerhouse.
(Obama's weak point, btw, to all those nonleft wing voters out there in the parts of America most of us here fled from!)
--biracial and bigender.
Makes the GOP more new and more of a change (on this superficial identity politics level) than Obama.
--HUGE ability to draw those independents.
(The ones that folks think somehow Obama can keep getting though we haven't had a single poll or lectoral contest to look at after the GOP attack machine kicks into gear to bring him down 17 points like it did Kerry, etc.)
--Lots of positive media fascination, a new narrative.
Basically if an African American candidate is new and different, and a woman candidate is new and different,
then it's rather obvious that an African American female candidate is MORE new and different.
But again, I provoke people by pointing out facts and making what might be described as arguments, while some folks are more interested in stupid and lewd jokes, cheerleading off topic, and eschew anything that remotely resembles "thought" or rational discourse.
Yes, it's sooooo uncomfortable to let a "begative" thought into your brain. that can happen when you try to fairly evaluate pros and cons of any particular development. You know that method -- where you draw a line down the page and consider BOTH pros and cons?
Rather than ignore one side, so that each and every piece of new data can reinforce your pre-existing conclusions/feelings/"opinions" and cognitive structures ?
This ticket would also have great negatives, principally not that she's a lesbian (who knows?) but she's just not......married.
People like people who are like them and we are still anti-single in this society. Plus you lose some racists and misogynists, AND most of all, NO ONE should ever be picked who hasn't been in the national media scrutiny as shown with the Eagleton debacle. Youngsters, look it up on google. And no, Rice has NOT gotten the full media scrutiny yet. She'd have to have answers about the economy, the mortgage meltdown, gay marriage, the whole range of issues and it's pretty risky to take those who haven't been through it before and thrust them on the ticket and think they'll do just fine. They tend to screw up.
Because nothing is going to attract religious fundamentalists and Southern racists to the GOP ticket like Condoleeza Rice?
Okaaaaaayyyy....let me get back to you on that....
Hope it happens - the ¨War Ticket¨.
Strong on foreign policy? Rice is two things: completely incompetent on foreign policy (her traditional specialty is the Eastern Bloc, fer chrissakes) and a shitty liar.
I hope John McCain runs with...an enormous penis!!!
Larry King is such a joke. Why ask Michelle Obama is she thinks McCain will ask Rice to be VP? Michelle Obama? Really Larry? That's like asking Pat Robertson, "Do you think Fred Phelps really hates gays?"
@14, I heard it was not all that large...
McCain on Rice--mmmm, delicious.
Meanwhile, A Daily Show's guest last night (who wrote a book on the 9/11 commission) bsically said that Rice bore the most individual responsibility for 9/11 (okay, he didn't say that, but he strongly implied it).
Michelle Obama was really good on Larry King I thought. Her aswers to some of his questions were, well, perfect from a campaigning standpoint (e.g., I haven't been suprised by anything in terms of what it would be like to campaign -- basically the same thing as when he was running for IL and US Senate, only more people are watching)...
@16: I can only believe what I read in The Stranger -- and on that front, Chrissy's schwanzstuecke is...an enormous penis!!!
#10-- Are you just brain dead?
your assertion that foreign policy is "Obama's weak point, btw, to all those nonleft wing voters out there in the parts of America most of us here fled from" is as far off as you can get. I'm in that part of America and many Repubs and Independents are sick of their war party, and its one of the things bringing them to Obama. Plus, he doesn't demonize them but instead invites them to join him. Haven't you noticed that its the middle america states where Obama is simply knocking Hillary's lights out. And I know from family relatives who are long time Republicans that its real. So wake up already. I don't know what election returns you are watching but Obama has every chance to take traditionally repub states, like Colorado, North Dakota, South Dakota, Nebraska, (or at the very least helping get more democrats elected from those states), and his chances will just increase if the Repubs start trumpeting more militarty invasions and an endless Iraq. It's their local high school sports heros that are dying in this damn war and when the lucky few that make it back from Iraq return they are saying that without change this will never end. There are a ton of red states in middle america that elect a progressive dem to the senate or governor if the candidate has good ideas and doesn't demonize the republican party. Obama sees that and knows that.
I really can not see Rice being a running mate for McCain. The GOP is not too keen on women stepping out of their places.
Oops. I had an extra 'no'. My bad. It was late.
I would highly doubt that ticket. I think that Condi lost a lot of faith with how poorly all the middle east countries are doing, and most conservatives don't really like her. She doesn't appeal to religious voters or conservatives, and most all minorities are voting Dem.
I think more likely, McCain will be picking a southern GOP senator. Not sure who yet, but I think that is where he will need to go to.
I also, as I have said forever...I think he might pick Guiliani. Because your average republican would drool over that ticket. The conservatives might come out for Guiliani.
But no, I would highly doubt condi would get the ticket.
Oh man, would that ticket be comedy gold. They'd have to find Condi Rice, first, though -- she sort of vanished at least a year ago. What a singularly unprincipled and unqualified administration official she turned out to be.
Really Mike where do you think McCain is getting his support in the national polls? California and NY? Where do you think the biggest concentration of Clinton haters reside (not counting this board)? Maybe like the Midwest and other brain-dead areas that put bozo boy in office. Where did a very savvy Obama campaign that HRC didn't much? Red states. Why? Because she was putting money and time where there is a decent chance to win in November. He was playing for the nomination. Very smart for getting the nomination.
Look at the results from the past and at the current national polling and try to put together a way that the Dems are going to carry Idaho, North Dakota, South Dakota, and Nebraska. Or South Carolina, Georgia, Virginia and North Carolina like another Obama supporter is wishing for.
After a great run Obama leads Mc by a couple points and RHC after a terrible run is down by by a couple of points. Go look at the polling and get a clue that this will be close in November and the red states will not suddendly take a left turn. Obama's greatest challenge is to bring his supporters up to speed.
check the polling http://www.realclearpolitics.com/
I'll see your black candidate, and raise you a black female candidate.
I highly doubt that McCain will select Rice as his running mate. He has a bit of a dilemma. If he selects a moderate running mate (Hegel, Lieberman?), the conservative base that already dislikes/trusts him will stay home, or maybe even vote for Barack Obama to teach the Republican party a lesson. If McCain selects a conservative (Sanford, Crist, Barbour?), he risks alienating the moderates and independents that he takes such great pride in attracting. I expect McCain will head right ... and lose. As for Barack Obama, I have a strong sense that he will select a running mate that will augment his strengths: bipartisan and Middle America appeal, Washington "outsider" status, historic candidacy, etc. That running mate is Kansas governor Kathleen Sebelius. (She delivered the Democratic response to Bush's most recent State of the Union.) Some will lobby for Bill Richardson, a person I greatly admire, but I think Richardson would make a stronger Secretary of State; I also think that Richardson would prefer that position to the VP.
Remember when Rice accidentally referred to Dubya as her husband? That was funny.
Huckleberry will balance out Mc including temperament, Christian right, away from Beltway and compassion for poor.
mccain rice would be great. that way, regardless of who won, there would still be a long overdue change in one of the nation's top offices.
but i don't think it will happen.
macain needs to appeal to people he doesn't appeal to. rice is basically the same crowd. it's sad to say, but i don't think that the typical repub is not going to consider a woman or an african american a bonus. he doesn't win any of the religious right with rice. and he doesn't appeal to people more liberal than him either. in fact, for the repubs not wanting to vote for a woman or an african american, this gives them more of an excuse to vote for obama or clinton.
no, it would be great for america, but i'm not sure it would help the republican ticket that much. so, i'm thinking it won't happen.
now a huckabee mccain, or a huckabee rice (or even romney rice) would all work. basically, rice and mccain are interchangeable.
maybe romney dropped out hoping for a VP slot.
@Bub...I totally agree with you about Richardson. However I disagree about Kathleen. I think she isn't near charismatic enough, nor can she really attract the voters that Obama needs, the lower class white vote, and the older white woman vote.
He doesn't do well with either. So he needs a running mate that can help him capture it.
But I still have doubts he will take the nom. And I am still rooting for Hillary.
Norm Rice is running for vice president?
@31 - Kansas is hardly latte-liberal land, and Sebelius is a very popular, successful liberal governor. I think she could bring a lot of unexpected constituencies into the Obama fold, and that on its own makes her a very compelling VP candidate in my mind. The only potential drawback might be a perceived lack of foreign policy muscle on the ticket.
@31 - agree about Kathleen. She doesn't have the prominence or charisma at this point. Richardson would be good... I would love Clinton if Obama gets the nod, but probably not going to happen.
On the Republican side, I feel like a Huckabee VP nod is inevitable. He gets the fundies and the reddest of red states. In some ways, I would be okay with this -- Huckabee is flat out crazy (does re-writing the Consitution to be in line with God's word freak the shit out of anyone else?), but I do think McCain would rein him in and he might just focus on his whole true compassionate conservatism thing (helping the poor, etc.). That is, assuming McCain doesn't kick the bucket while in office.
Don't get me wrong. Not going to vote for the fuckers, but still.
retarded rumor.
if only the GOP were that dumb.
Richardson could be a good choice for Obama. It would help Obama with Hispanic voters, where he is weak now (see California, Arizona, New Mexico primary results). Richardson's foreign policy experience would also be a plus.
I'm just not sure how this would appeal to voters east of the Mississippi.
Here's how the Dems handle Condi's expertise in national security:
"Secretary Rice, can you again explain to us why you ignored the Aug. 6, 2001 daily intelligence briefing entitled "Bin Laden determined to attack inside the U.S.'?"
http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/04/10/bush.briefing/
You people are looking at this from the wrong perspective. From the viewpoint of the hard-right loons who are attacking McCain as a "traitor", and who still slavishly support President Bush (some 30% of Republicans still think he's one of the greatest Presidents in our history), Condi Rice is a great hero. They LOVE her absolutely and unconditionally. Race doesn't matter; it's only Democrats who fret that blacks or women are unelectable. Rice would help heal the big wound down the center of the party. The goal for them at this point is, what can we do to prevent a third-party kook kristian kandidate from jumping in. Rice might be the one. She's not a kook, but she's extremely kook-friendly, due to her close association with Jesus Georgie Porgy there.
Fnarf: Condi is "a great hero"? See my point in #37.
As to whether Condi would attract the "kook kristian" crowd, I understand that Condi isn't quite so anti-gay. I believe she's expressed support for civil unions. She's a sure way to get James Dobson to his mind on McCain!
Thomas, FNARF said, "according to republican loons." its pretty clear.
i agree, i think a condi old man mccain tickets poses some problems and she is an alabaman(?) so it could help get some of them southern votes he is gonna be lacking. i don't think she will do it, and it's looking more like an old man jesus ticket.
Hey 25,
You're correct, Obama won't win S. Carolina, but to think North Carolina, the Dakotas, and other states that have shown their moderation by electing Dem. senators or governors won't possibly go for Obama simply views those states as fitting in with the Oklahomas in the world when they don't. For example, in 2006 South Dakota voters (who gave us George McGovern)almost defeated a gay marriage amendment, 52-48, and elected a Dem. Senator. Nebraska, Missouri and North Dakota also have Dem. Senators, while Kansas has a Dem. Govern. Of course Obama won't pick up all of the red states, but he will pick up a few, and will help add to the Dem. Senators and Representatives from the midwest to create a working majority. With Hillary at the top of the ticket senators and representatives running in moderate states would start with a significant handicap. And, if elected, she would start with a significantly weaker hand and a united Republican Party. I used to be among those who didn't care that Hillary garnered such hatred, and even had a yard sign up for her for awhile. But as she got down and dirty in Iowa I realized I had been blind to her ugly side and got a better understandign of why she was so polarizing. If you disagree with her, in her eyes and apparently those of her supporters, you are uninformed. Obama, meanwhile, met differences of opinion with respect and an explanation of why he felt differently.
It's no fluke that the more time Obama is able to spend in a state the more he is likely to win it. As the more voters become informed about their differences the more they move to Obama.
@38
Good point. Bush did more for putting minorities in prominent positions than any Democrat. TWO black Secretaries of State, a black National Security Adviser, and a Hispanic Attorney General ... You've gotta admit that's outside the stereotypical exclusive Republican box, and conservatives didn't even seem to notice. It's only Democrats that are creaming themselves over electability.
Nice use of a semi-colon too, Fnarf.
I'm not giving you the full colon no matter how much you butter me up.
Mike In Iowa--
You are either completely ignorant of reality or have never been to any of those Red States. ND and the like will NEVER go to a democrat. Are you fucking serious?
Montana, for example, has a democratic governor and two senators, but that's because local politics are much different than national ones. Different factors come into play, and party politics aren't as rigid along partisan lines.
However, you are deluded to think to think these states would ever go to a democratic nominee, either Clinton or Obama.
There are no Red States any more, gt @44.
Just look at Virginia - ballot requests in 2000 and 2004 were 2:1 GOP:Dem - in 2008 party registration and ballot requests and returned ballots (mail-in) are all 2:1 Dem:GOP.
It's a Blue Tidal Wave. Deal with it!
Oh, the irony: an Iowan being lectured about never having been to a red state.
Rice is a Presbyterian, of the PC(USA) -- not a religious kook by any means. Presbyterians are a mainstream, moderate denomination. That doesn't mean she hasn't associated herself politically with more fundamentalist Christian contingents, which is a pretty common pattern among Christian politicians (See: Tim Burgess). Better to align yourself with brothers and sisters of the faith than to alienate yourself from them, you know? I get where she's coming from on the religious ally front.
@38, @42
why is that?
Katelyn, I didn't say Rice was a kook; I said she's acceptable to kooks, largely because of her association with the man they consider to be divinely inspired: our President.
Infrequent @48, I would say it has to do with a right-wing preference for STRUCTURAL impediments to racial and gender equality, as opposed to personal ones.
ok, my mis informed friends, you really want to compare Iowa to a Red State like ND? The last time ND went for a Democratic nominee? 1936: FDR. 1940 and 1944 they voted against him, for Dewey. In a time of war. I could go on and on and on with all of the Red States and examples for almost every last one of them. But of course you don't like those pesky facts, do you? No, it's much easier to pretend that Obama through sheer willpower can spread his message of hope and make every conservative state a bastion of progressive thought.
You were saying...?
Ooops, one correction. ND did go for Johnson, a very popular president at the time, over Goldwater, who is considered one of the worst Republican candidates of all time. So while McCain may not unite the Republican party into a frenzy, Goldwater he ain't!
North Dakota has three electoral votes.
I got you, Fnarf -- I was supporting your statement.
While not all the racists are in the GOP, and not all the GOP are racists, it is still axiomatic that there are one whole hell of a lot of racists in the GOP. Many, if not most, of those will be damned uncomfortable marking a ballot that puts a black woman one heartbeat away from leader of the free world when the top spot is going to an 80-year-old man in ill health.
No, they've got to find a way to get Jeb in there. They won't put him directly on the ticket; the name Bush is the kiss of death right now and they know it. But they'll put some placeholder in there who can take the spot when McCain dies two years into his term who won't challenge Jebbie for the nomination in 2012 after he's been appointed to the vacant VP slot.
There's only one thing for it.
Obama's gotta run Oprah for VP.
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