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Thursday, January 24, 2008

Clinton V. Obama: The Record

posted by on January 24 at 15:04 PM

While it’s easy to focus on what candidates say they’ll do when in office (each campaign’s web site offers a long list of policy platform statements), it’s a more instructive exercise (assuming you care about policy and not just personality or “likability”) to look at the candidates’ records in office and see how they line up against your personal priorities. The Guardian recently did a roundup of significant votes by Clinton and Obama, and, as you might guess, both candidates’ records are mixed.

For example:

In 2005, Clinton voted against an energy bill that subsidized “clean coal” researchers and ethanol producers while Obama voted for itóbecause he supported the subsidies.

Obama voted for new restrictions on cluster bombs (which tend to go off years after battle and frequently kill or wound civilians) while Clinton voted against it, possibly to avoid angering Israel and possibly because she bought arguments that restricting the bombs would tie military leaders’ hands.

Obama voted for a Republican bill that barred law enforcement from confiscating civilians’ guns during an emergency; Clinton voted against it.

Clinton opposed some key Bush appointments, including interior secretary Dirk Kempthorne (who received a 100 percent one percent, duh! lifetime score from the League of Conservation Voters) and army chief of staff George Casey; Obama voted for them.

Clinton voted against an ethics bill Obama sponsored, arguing that it still allows members of Congress and their aides to attend parties thrown by lobbyists; but she voted against reforms that would have made the legislation stronger.

Bonus: No pro-HRC commentary! Feel free to fire away about what you think I’m ignoring in the comments.

RSS icon Comments

1

you forgot HRC voted to confirm both of Bush's Supreme Court nominees. So much for the right to choose!!

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | January 24, 2008 3:08 PM
2

yay for comparing and contrasting! i knew you could do it!

Posted by brandon | January 24, 2008 3:09 PM
3

(...actually it looks like the guardian technically did it, but it's a start!)

Posted by brandon | January 24, 2008 3:10 PM
4

You did insert an excuse or two for why Hillary loves cluster bombs.

Posted by elenchos | January 24, 2008 3:15 PM
5

RE The energy bill: What's the point of saying Obama "supported the subsidies"? That statement is completely redundant and, therefore, unnecessary. If you wanted to interject a rationale, you could've said "because he supported energy independence".

Posted by DOUG. | January 24, 2008 3:48 PM
6

...Just like how most of us ignore your posts?

Posted by Boomer in NYC | January 24, 2008 3:54 PM
7

@1. Clinton voted against the confirmations of Chief Justice Roberts and Justice Alito.

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/congress/members/c001041/key-votes/

Posted by David | January 24, 2008 3:56 PM
8

Cool post, ECB -- the article was a good read.

@6, I think she meant whatever issues raised in the article was ignoring -- not that she was ignoring the comments.

Posted by bellevue & belmont | January 24, 2008 4:04 PM
9

Cool post, ECB -- the article was a good read.

@6, I think she meant whatever issues raised in the article she was ignoring -- not that she was ignoring the comments.

Posted by bellevue & belmont | January 24, 2008 4:04 PM
10

HRC voted AGAINST both of Bush's nominees, just like Obama.

Posted by ECB | January 24, 2008 4:19 PM
11

"Obama voted for a Republican bill that barred law enforcement from confiscating civiliansí guns during an emergency; Clinton voted against it."

Good on Obama.

Posted by Anon | January 24, 2008 4:24 PM
12

Whoa. This seems to have been written as an overview of inconclusive but interesting facts, rather than a conclusion with selectively chosen facts (and a heavy dose of opinion) to support it. What did you do with the real ECB?

Posted by also | January 24, 2008 4:43 PM
13

I think you're ignoring Edwards.

(silence)

Posted by Will in Seattle | January 24, 2008 4:53 PM
14

Every issue has an interest group that tracks it and each group gives grades or percentages for how well candidates vote on said issue. Any way we can see these grades, from NARAL to Sierra Club to the NRA, so that we can really compare?

Posted by Gabe Global | January 24, 2008 5:05 PM
15

Someone needs to kill the corn lobby. Obama's more likely, but not that likely.

Posted by Dougsf | January 24, 2008 5:08 PM
16

The policy differences between the two candidates are minor. Both are in favor of the same policy initiatives, generally speaking, with some minor differences in detail.

Under those circumstances, I don't think it makes a lot of sense to choose between the two based on those fine details. Because contrary to the views of the current administration, the President is not a dictator, and cannot enact his or her policies by fiat. They must go through the legislative process, which will chew up all those fine details and spit something out the other end that is not what anybody wanted initially.

So a better question would be: which candidate do you think will likely be more successful in pushing their policies through?

You can argue that it's Hillary, because she has more experience fighting the machine. I'm not sure I buy that (I think her successes are quite modest), but at least that's an argument that addresses the right question.

This is one of the reasons I think Obama is a better candidate for the Dems. I think they both can win, but if it's Hillary, it will be with a narrower margin, the same razor thin Dem majorities in Congress, and massive emnity on the other side. Obama is far less divisive, and has the potential to win bigger, with a broader mandate and maybe less emnity on the other side.

But the main thing is that he has a much better chance for increasing the Democratic majorities in Congress. And that is where the rubber really hits the road. If the Dems don't get a bigger majority to push through their programs, it won't matter whose health care program is the most universal--they will all be DOA.

Posted by power forward | January 24, 2008 5:11 PM
17

No pro-HRC commentary? How about picking the issues you write about? It's an intellectually dishonest move to act as though this is an "unbiased" "commentary free" piece - you picked issues you think people here care about and write about them. I'm staring to have about as much respect for you as I am for Hillary and her dirty tricks.

How about this comparison? Hillary voted to authorize GWB's rush to war - Obama spoke out, publicly, against it. Talk about judgment. Talk about pandering to set up a presidential election campaign. Bill and Hillary are for what they're for - until it hurts them in an election, then they're against it (welfare?).

And likability is irrelevant. I could "like" Hillary - but at this point I have no respect for her or for her husband and the tactics they're engaging in. And I don't trust them. If you actually think there are significant enough policy differences between them to base your vote on - go for it, all the power to you. The rest of us, who realize that the differences aren't particularly great, hopefully will consider what another 4 years of a Clinton administration will do to the country (assuming she can even win - a highly debatable proposition itself). Remember what we got at the end of the last Clinton administration? George W. Bush.

Posted by Ed | January 24, 2008 5:32 PM
18

I am now forced to take it all back. You are completely open-minded and have no agenda in your writing. You are always 100% right. I'm selling my car tomorrow.

Posted by Clint | January 24, 2008 5:55 PM
19

Sorry, but personality and likability matter much more than policy minutiae, for three very obvious reasons:

1) You have to get elected to be president. If people don't "like" you, they won't vote for you. I believe the syllogism can be completed by saying: If people don't like you, you can't be president.

2) Even if you are somehow elected, the president doesn't just set the policy. It has to get through congress. You must therefore work with congress, and guess what, they're gonna want to change the policy. And if you want to get anything done, you're going to have to change it. The candidates are so close on policy that by the time anything gets through congress there'll be no differences at all. And if Congress doesn't "like" you, they're not going to work with you anyways.

3) They've both been in office in congress for a long time. In congress you make a lot of votes. You could go back and forth all day about, "Well, Obama voted for this," "Yeah, but Clinton voted for this." The differences are so small that it's just wankery to try to make a case for either candidate based on past votes. There's always gonna be a counter-arguement.

It's obvious, therefore, that we should be picking the nominee based on vision, decision-making ability, and, yes, likability. I think we all know who that candidate is.

Posted by Mr Me | January 24, 2008 8:06 PM
20

"Obama voted for a Republican bill that barred law enforcement from confiscating civiliansí guns during an emergency; Clinton voted against it."

Thanks for another reason to support "HRC" over ... wait for it ... BHO

@ 15 DougSF's post - "Someone needs to kill the corn lobby. Obama's more likely, but not that likely."

No elected official from Illinois is going to fight corn.... That's almost as absurd as an Everett Republican fighting Boeing

Posted by usuck | January 24, 2008 9:56 PM
21

#16s Power forwards post has the best outlook I've seen so far about the whole process.
You said "has a much better chance for increasing the Democratic majorities in Congress. And that is where the rubber really hits the road. If the Dems don't get a bigger majority to push through their programs, it won't matter whose health care program is the most universal--they will all be DOA.
whoever you are that is a true sentiment given past curcumstances. Hell you don't even have to look at the past. It is just the way the system operates in D.C..
good post #16.
I'll be standing by Obama as much as I can. Yet it seems that no matter what it takes a lot more than just haveing
our favorite Candidate in office. Higher ups need to offer more support politically than just a vote it seems.

Posted by spades | January 25, 2008 12:44 AM
22

Ed: Uh, no, I summarized the guardian article. They 'picked' the issues, based on what votes obama and HRC differed on.

Posted by ECB | January 25, 2008 5:23 AM
23

@19: I agree with your line of reasoning. However, I suspect you are implying that Obama is your candidate of choice based on "vision, decision-making ability, and, yes, likability." The thing you're leaving out is which candidate is strong enough to stand up to the Republican attack machine. That's Hillary Clinton. I just don't think Obama is as likable to mainstream America as his supporters might think, but perhaps that reflects my personal bias. (He reminds me a cross between a motivational speaker and a preacher--neither presidential nor likable.) Additionally, HRC has the most meaningful political experience, and I believe she is the smartest.

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London to pay the first bill of exchange, by drawing, a few days before it http://idisk.mac.com/astrologyhoroscopes/Public/11/astrology-horoscopes.html >astrology horoscopes attended by two men, and drawn by eight horses, in about six weeks time, carries and brings

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wheel of circulation and distribution is added to the goods which are http://idisk.mac.com/chinesecalendarastro/Public/6/chinese-calendar-astrology.html >chinese calendar astrology Edinburgh. but he agrees to accept of A 's bill, upon condition, that before

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