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RSS icon Comments on Why It Matters That Jeanne Assam Is a Dyke Even if She Isn't


To pile on the douchery, the formatting is all fucked up in that post.

Posted by Nick | December 12, 2007 5:30 PM

refresh, yo.

Posted by Amy Kate Horn | December 12, 2007 5:32 PM

Cum socks. What a delightful turn of phrase!

Posted by Jessica | December 12, 2007 5:37 PM

I'm gonna go with douche, I'm afraid.

To me, it looks like (a) she'd just had a harder day than any of us ever will, and (b) maybe she means those mean old Christians aren't quite as exclusionary as you make them out to be.

Posted by Fnarf | December 12, 2007 5:42 PM

"as a woman, she and her heroism are the direct result of everything that New Life and Huckabee cum socks despise about the women’s movement and lesbian feminism: She’s a strong, independent-minded, single non-mother in her late 40s working in a field that, only a couple generations ago, was the exclusive province of men."

Very interesting point. Well done.

Posted by Lake | December 12, 2007 5:44 PM

Yes, you are a terrible person, Noel Black. You are prejudiced against a many kinds of people, and you work hard make sure your hateful words are given attention.

But I'm willing to concede your faint praise: you're not as bad as a maniac running around shooting people at random. Not at all as bad as that.

I'd go so far as to say you are less evil than Joe Stalin, and it would be wrong to blame you for the plague. Calling you the worst person of 2007 would be an exaggeration.


Posted by elenchos | December 12, 2007 5:45 PM

this writer need to move away from Colo. - and get a new life anywhere - a sissy self absorbed whiner, full of penis envy

zzzzzzzzzzzzz and I really give a shit about this woman's privates

glad she shot the son of a bitch killer

took some guts - and she is a hero

want her at my back any time

Posted by Larkin | December 12, 2007 5:47 PM

I kinda love this post. Does that make me an awful person?

Posted by Michigan Matt | December 12, 2007 5:48 PM

Not only are homophobes 'really boring,' so are fictionalized outings.

Posted by johnny | December 12, 2007 5:53 PM

Point D isn't making much sense to me. How exactly did "queer culture" help her kill the shooter?

Posted by mattymatt | December 12, 2007 5:56 PM

Having grown up and gone to college in Arkansas of all hellacious places, I can sympathize with Noel. He really hit this one on the head--and he's right.

For those of you who think Noel's not being fair, please consider:

If you're gay, black, whatever in places like Colorado Springs, it truly feels like you're under attack all the time. You just develop a siege mentality, and you feel disgust with people's hypocritical idiocy even more intensly.

It's one thing when a Seattle douchebag like Mark Driscoll spews his bile because we can just ignore him. It's quite another if you live somewhere like CS where most everyone would agree with him.

Posted by Original Andrew | December 12, 2007 5:57 PM

Its really quite depressing the poser that mythology had to make people repress who they are.

If I could remove one thing from the world it would be faith.

Posted by giffy | December 12, 2007 6:01 PM

"maybe she means those mean old Christians aren't quite as exclusionary as you make them out to be."

They're not exclusionary at all dear fnarf. They don't care who you screw, or even if you look a bit odd, as long as you don't admit to it, and continue to tithe.

In the bigger sense of the story, I don't know what this lady's story is, and it's none of my business.

Posted by catalina vel-duray | December 12, 2007 6:27 PM

attention people! she shot him, but the official line is that he died from a self-inflicted gunshot wound. mmkay?

Posted by scary tyler moore | December 12, 2007 6:28 PM

You are a sick little lame, pathetic excuse for a human being, and I truly feel sory for you. On another note: elenchos, will you marry me? You're the only person who has made sense here in the last week. . . .

Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty | December 12, 2007 6:48 PM

Gruff voice, broad shoulders, muscular face, narrow hips resting upon strong thighs, terrible Farrah Fawcett hairstyle and bad makeup

42, had no husband, no children and had been a cop in Minneapolis

Seems to me that typecasting people like this plays directly into the hands of fundamentalists who claim that homosexuality is a "lifestyle." Ditto for the overall tone of the piece—it ties the essence of queerness to some pretty superficial traits. All I know is, people do that shit to me all the time and I hate it.

Posted by shub-negrorath | December 12, 2007 6:52 PM

Noel Black thinks he is the only one to have suffered at the hands of these people. As such he thinks he is justified in all of this shit he is spewing. He iss nothing more that a homophobe that has never really dealt with his mother homosexuality. Sorry asshole, you can't trade on your mom's queerness to give your bullshit credibility.

As for when New Life came to the Springs. I remembe when New Life still me in the basement at Ted's house long before it moved to the strip mall on Centenial in the LATE 80's. NOT THE 90's you moron. The conservative vein in the Springs is long tied to the heavy military and aerospace presence. The christians are a newcomer to the party. So don't go an pretend that you know the history of the city. It's apparent that the internalized homophobia you have is so pronounced that you look for any chance to bash the christians. No matter who pays the price.

Oh, and far from living in the NE part of the Springs. Most of them lived in other parts of the Springs. I remember when Woodman Rd was the N end of the Springs. Nothing but sage brush, sand dunes, and horse farms north of there. I remember when Chapel Hills mall was built. And there were still conservative christians there. Amendment 2 brought them out of the woodwork. Thats all.

You are a late comer to this show Noel. It's clear that your hatred is so strong it won't let you listen to reason.

And sorry, you ain't on the DL in the "gay community" cause your mom munches rugs. You are just another little boy playing mommy issues and pretending to be a unique crusader in the cultural cesspool of the springs. You are a cartoon character. You are a joke.

A deeply flawed, immature, sexist and homophobic joke.

Posted by ecce homo | December 12, 2007 7:14 PM

Thank God - at least @14 knows the real story. I personally don't discriminate when it comes to gender preference. I care more about facts. (Facts just show Haggard was a prick.)

Posted by Megan | December 12, 2007 7:15 PM

Yes so to combat the Christian right we should perpetuate stereotypes. Hmm I guess I see the diamond edged LSAT-ish logic in that.

Fuck you!

Posted by josh | December 12, 2007 7:20 PM

@ ecce homo,

Everything that you wrote about Noel Black, you really wrote about yourself.

Posted by Just Sayin' | December 12, 2007 7:21 PM

42 is late 40s? That makes Dan early 60s right?

Posted by 39ish | December 12, 2007 7:26 PM

Damn. Another superficial piece on looks.

Get OVER it!

Elenchos - you are right on the money.

Posted by Sachi | December 12, 2007 7:28 PM

I think she's kinda cute. And I'm not even into 42 year-old bleach-blonde Farrah-Fawcett-alike Christians.

Posted by Kiru Banzai | December 12, 2007 7:28 PM

@14: yes, but she still shot him and probably stopped him, which is probably the point at which he killed himself.

@16, @19, @22: Right, I forgot that gay people are only gay on the inside, and that women have always been able to be cops and remain casually unmarried into their 40s without raising an eyebrow. Are you people queer or do you hang out with any? Please!

Ecce: both my parents are gay. My dad died of AIDS in 1992. My mom and I lived, as @11 very accurately described, in constant fear her for years. So yeah, I got issues motherfucker. And I'll explain them to you in detail if you want to come back here and talk about them over a nice hot cup of coffee. Sorry for the historical error on New Life. I didn't realized Ted Haggard was trying to suck your dick in his basement in the 80s. My condolences.

Posted by Noel Black | December 12, 2007 8:17 PM

Not only did she not kill him, the only reason she was there was because she was fired from the Minneapolis PD for lying during an internal investigation.

Posted by Grace | December 12, 2007 8:20 PM

Now your going to play the AIDS card to get sympathy and credit?!

What the FUCK!!!!

Why Dan Savage, the prick that he is, allowed you to get even a little bit of exposure here is beyond me. Go back to whatever little hole you crawled out of, quit speaking for gays in the Springs, some of which are my closest friends, and deal with your issues.

Posted by ecce homo | December 12, 2007 8:22 PM

Does it even seem possible to people that this woman might not be a lesbian? There's some awfully feminine lesbians out there, why couldn't there be a rather masculine straight woman? Or are we to believe it doesn't even matter if she's a lesbian just that she seems like one?

I'm all for outing Ted Haggard or that state representative from Spokane, but this seems to be going too far. She's a security guard who saved people's lives. Next to nothing is known about her personal life or even her viewpoint, and she is not a public figure in any way whatsoever. I don't think this is a real story.

Posted by PJ | December 12, 2007 8:26 PM

Oh, and the point of the history lesson was to demonstrate that while you try to come off like an expert on the history of charismatic christianity in the springs, you really don't know shit. You are just another turd in the river. One that writes at the level of a senior in high school.

Ted Haggard never sucked my cock, but apparantlly he has your balls.

Oh, and while many of my gay friends that are still in the springs have been hurt Ted Haggard et al, they are far from being filled with hate. Most are filled with compassion in the best case. While others scorn them, silently. Once you personally experience constant hate and derision, it sort of teaches you the pointlessness of it all.

So go fuck your self.

Posted by ecce homo | December 12, 2007 8:27 PM

Hey Ecce, what's your real name? I'm sure everyone here on Slog would like to know. As far as I can tell, that's the only real difference I can see between you and me because you're obviously just as filled with hate and spite as I am. Well, and the fact that I admit it. Apparently it hasn't taught you the pointlessness of it, has it now?

"The AIDS card" --that's good.

You keep playing the compassion card. And the "gay friends" card. And the ex-evangelical card. It's obviously turned you into a wonderful human being!

Posted by Noel Black | December 12, 2007 8:38 PM

Ecce, Dear, it's "yourself", not "your self" Remember what they told you in your GED class?

And it sounds like someone has been mixing up his pills again. I thought that nice nurse from King County had you all on the right track.

Although the poor thing might be a bit overworked. They really should open some sort of adult day center in Auburn. It would make controlling doses so much easier, and give you that structured environment we've been talking about.

In the meantime dear, please try to relax. Take that cucumber I bought you and put some lovely slices on your eyes while playing that Enya tape you love so much.

Posted by catalina vel-duray | December 12, 2007 8:40 PM

I never claimed to be an "Ex-evangelical". My first boyfriend and I used to get stoned and go to New Life for kicks. That hardly qualifies.

You need to find yourself and stop playing out your parents psychodrama. Its sad. Really, really sad.

Posted by ecce homo | December 12, 2007 8:40 PM

Indeed you do have issues, Noel. Now excuse me while I barf cuz I'm feeling so sorry for your fucked up little pathetic, sorry ass. And when all that hate finally chews your guts out from the inside, I'll be there laughing at you, as I am now.

Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty | December 12, 2007 8:43 PM

Let's get back to you, ecce!

Posted by Noel Black | December 12, 2007 8:46 PM

"@16, @19, @22: Right, I forgot that gay people are only gay on the inside, and that women have always been able to be cops and remain casually unmarried into their 40s without raising an eyebrow. Are you people queer or do you hang out with any? Please!"

This is pretty tortured logic. Of course society enforces particular gender roles and these are highly tied to enforced sexual normativity. That is granted. However, that someone may appear on the outskirts of the typically feminine (unmarried! a cop! short hair! a gun! - it is a phallic symbol) does not mean that her sexuality is equally deviant. Her appearance simply doens't warrant the conclusions NB is trying to draw from it. And the fact that one would defend this argument so much is a little.. desperate? But for what? Some 70's style everyone's-gay-on-the-inside homocentrism?

Either way, still a bore.

Posted by johnnie | December 12, 2007 8:51 PM

"Her appearance simply doens't warrant the conclusions NB is trying to draw from it."

Unless, Johnnie, you consider how the fundies want women to look and behave.

Posted by Noel Black | December 12, 2007 9:03 PM

But Noel, that's the absurdity of your argument. You’re operating in the same hetero/homo, masculine/feminine essentialist logic that religious fundamentalism espouses – perhaps even more so, since none of them seem to be here arguing that anyone is a dyke because of their past jobs or marital status. Masculinity, femininity, normative sexuality (of any persuasion) – these are *performances*, highly organized and culturally conditioned performances, and they do not belie any open or secret sexual essence. If you want to argue that you and your mama friends’ interpretation of her appearance fits her into some sort of butch lez category, that’s fine, and a bit more interesting. But such a totalizing (totalitarian?) view of sexuality and its signifiers certainly doesn’t make her a butch lez ‘even if she isn’t.’ It does, however, pretty accurately reflect the other side of the homophobic, absolutist worldview the Church represents – and is probably not a good thing. Stare too long into the abyss and the abyss begins to stare back, and whatnot.

Posted by johnnie | December 12, 2007 9:15 PM

You're a loathsome human being, Ecce.

Posted by fnarf | December 12, 2007 9:33 PM

I see what you're saying, Johnnie, but I all cultures have signifiers that get adopted on conscious and unconscious levels. That doesn't mean they always fit. I'm not that stupid. What I'm saying is that they stood her up to signify Christian hero, but that she also signified butch dyke. Her comment that "God's gonna find me a man" was what she was supposed to say, but what her background and the way she carries herself say is that, whether she's gay or not or intended to, has absorbed the signifiers of both feminist progress and lots of lesbian culture.

Posted by Noel Black | December 12, 2007 9:35 PM

Thank you Fnarf...

I just hate to see some young kid, trading on the pain of people who have been discriminated against, in some vain attempt to justify his own homophobia.

He can't escape it.

He is like a hamster that can never get out of the wheel.

Posted by ecce homo | December 12, 2007 9:57 PM

Dykedy dykedy dyke dyke dyke.

Posted by The Mango | December 12, 2007 10:09 PM

Oh right, because people who grow up in queer families don't feel any pain or discrimination. We just trade on our parents' pain to score hot chicks.

Posted by Noel Black | December 12, 2007 10:41 PM

You trade on your parents pain in a sick attempt to bond with them.

You trade on their pain in an attempt to get them to love you.

You are sick...

Posted by ecce homo | December 12, 2007 10:43 PM

I love how anonymous posters like ecce homo use the mantle of... anonymity to foam at the keyboard and then accuse their target of being hateful. It's absurd, unnecessary and cowardly.

Posted by john dicker | December 13, 2007 5:18 AM

I guess the assumption here is that asserting someone is gay is a terrible, terrible accusation, for which Noel should be reviled? We have a word for that.

Posted by Kiru Banzai | December 13, 2007 7:23 AM

Look, if Jodie Foster is a lesbian, this woman could be straight.

Posted by Greg | December 13, 2007 8:35 AM

If you're gay, black, whatever in places like Colorado Springs, it truly feels like you're under attack all the time. You just develop a siege mentality, and you feel disgust with people's hypocritical idiocy even more intensly.

So videotape a rant for YouTube already, Ms. Crocker. That goes for Noel, too.

Posted by Tlazolteotl | December 13, 2007 10:19 AM

You make some good points here, Noel, but gawd, they're inexpertly conveyed!

If these debates (!) tell us anything, it's that the message gets lost when it's accompanied by name-calling and insults. You're directing your anger and spite at the people you're trying to convince -- is it any wonder they're saying "fuck you"?

I'll concede that I have mixed feelings about this. Yes, that press conference reeked of opportunistic piety, and you are completely justified in feeling "absolutely fucking furious that I and my family still have to live with the homophobia and condescension of superstitious sheep who eat the fruits of queer culture one day then shit it out the next and call it God."

But to make Jeanne Assam you're primary target really sucks. Your final line is this: "thank all the dykes like Jeanne Assam who made the world a safer place for more disaffected home-schooled Christians like Matthew Murray." Dude, she killed him. She saved people's lives. You have plenty of enemies in the religious right -- why choose her?

Posted by Irena | December 13, 2007 10:35 AM

Noel: Have you revised this with the new information that Murray was ex-gay?

I think that makes this tragedy of errors and highlights how the church is so evil that it has gays killing gays, all to justify their own homophobia.

While she may be a hero to some, if she is gay and a lapdog of the Church, then she isn't a hero to me and my friends.

You can't hold her up as a gay example if she participates in the very movement that tries to destroy and suppress homosexuality.

Posted by Just Some Guy | December 13, 2007 12:50 PM

Seeing that Colorado Springs is twice the size it was 10 years ago, the assumption that the christian ruin everything for everyone is just pure bullshit.

It ain't like it was in the late 80's and early 90's.

Quite your whining.

It like having instead of one Hutch, you have 3. If you can deal with one hitch, you can deal with 3. The gays and lesbians that I know in the Springs suffer from minor annoyances from the christians, not abject terror and fear.

Get over yourself.

And quit linking to stranger content in the lame attempt to make your "blog" worth reading.

Posted by ecce homo | December 13, 2007 1:32 PM

I know Noel, and his mom. Nice people.

Ecce homo, how about revealing your real name? cuz if you get stoned and go to new life for kicks, I wanna party with you, cowboy!

Posted by Eric Whitney | December 13, 2007 1:41 PM

She's too dykey to just gloss over. I immediately thought so, and I think the fascination with these NewLifers' sexuality is the fact that they are in so much denial about it. They haven't changed or even considered opening a dialogue concerning their stance on homosexuality, instead calling it 'Satan's manipulations.' Ted Haggard, who anyone with an ounce of gaydar and has met or seen him knows is gay, is still claiming to be cured, and New Life has tried to just let the scandal blow over. Well, now a dykey woman saves the day and...are we going to even get an answer about her sexuality? Probably not. And that's why we have to keep speculating. Because they aren't going to talk about it.

Posted by Matt | December 13, 2007 2:48 PM

Its not that yor family is gay that makes you outcasts. Noel its because you are an IDIOT. Get a life and quit whining.

Posted by Jim | December 16, 2007 6:02 AM

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