Actually, most of the hot girls at high school are vegan or vegetarian, so if he does tell them, it might be useful ...
a Vegetarian Thanksgiving is ridiculous. I remember when my step sister was being a vegan so she made all these vegan things. They werent bad, but it was not the essence of thanks giving;
Yams with marshmellows
leftover turkey sandwiches on white bread with mayo and mustard AND a side of potato chips.
Some people make me want to hang out with Amanda Knox.
most the hot girls are vegetarian or vegan? cause theyre skinny? cause they wear earth tones? what?
Vegan high school chicks are generally not up for a good pounding as their bones snap too easily. Juvenile osteoporosis, binging and purging lentils, no bloodlust - three strikes against decent sex.
Yeah, my kid’s going to brag about that cool “tofurkey”—and then get his ass kicked.
You're hilarious! But Will makes a good point, especially in Liberal Seattle. I doubt that will be useful now, but it won't be long til The Kid will be willing to use any strategy necessary to get to The Promised Land.
Oh no, not another veg-war thread.
Hey everybody: I saw a pitbull riding a bicycle on the viaduct! Or maybe it was a bus! Wocka-wocka!
awwwww. why you gotta be hatin' on the poor, earnest vegetarian?
DJ is what, nine? Will in Seattle's point is crap. And when he is in High School, why would he want to change his ways just to impress some bigoted vegan bitch? If someone has a problem with what you eat, enough to get in the way of sex, relationship, friendship, et al, then that isn't someone that you want to be hanging around with.
Because normally they are so holier than thou.
A guilty pleasure: making such great meat dishes that the vegetarians eat it, too. "Just this once"!
@8 - Because the concept of "vegetarian Thanksgiving" is fucking lame. Eat the damn turkey or skip the holiday altogether.
Will makes a terrible point. It also is creepy that A. he is aware of which high school girls are hot and B. that he knows their dietary reigmen. Does will own a windowless van to boot?
I used to be a vegetarian. I passed through all 3 phases of veggie-hood:
1) I am a vegetarian for ethical reasons.
2) I am a vegetarian for health reasons.
3) I am a vegetarian so that I can be an arrogant pain in the ass.
Stage 3 comes mightly quickly.
Hey, Mr. Savage, I know a guy who can write you an excellent Perl script that will generate anti-vegtarian snark of any desired number of column inches at the click of a mouse. If you're not in a big hurry it can come with either the regular frat boy mode or the ever popular old curmudgeon mode. Just ping me if you're interested -- this could save you literally minutes per week.
I'm a vegetarian and will admit that tofurkey tastes like CRAP (the lunchmeat version is damn good, tho). Just sides for me, and then a crash from all the carbs.
Screw tofurkey. I'm making a tur-duck-en this year for the holiday. Mmmmm, poultry. . .
I want to eat a vegan. Hostel 2 style.
@15 - I too can attest to the unmitigated awfulness of the tofurkey. My poor mom went and cooked me one a few years ago, and it broke my heart, but I couldn't choke down more than a couple of bites.
Yes, tofurkey tastes like crap, but so does turkey, which is mostly redolent of sawdust. I'm with Calvin Trillin: make spaghetti carbonara your Thanksgiving treat. With raw eggs and double bacon; now that's something to be thankful for.
Don't worry Dan, the vegetarians (at least the canadian ones) will love you even if you eat a great big turkey (or ten) this Thanksgiving.
Eating turkey is nasty. Think about how the turkey was raised in a little cage injected with hormones. Why would you eat that?
I've been told it's what human flesh tastes like, btw..cannibals!!!
Why are the ar-tard vegetarians the only ones that ever get attention up in this blog (followed by vegetarians are a bunch of assholes flamewar)? This should be titled "misguided vegetarian of the week" - it's becoming a recurring theme.
"Actually, most of the hot girls at high school are vegan or vegetarian,"
Granted, I went to High School in Philly, but unless you grew up in Olympia or Eugene, that statement can not be true. Most of the vegan girls Ive seen wear Peruvian hats and eat bean sammiches.
I like reason #8 (having nightmares about about how the turkey lived and died) I do not know anyone who ever had such nightmares. I'll bet even the folks who still slaughter their own birds never suffer from nightmares about it.
My Thanksgiving turkey has also gotten non-meat eaters to enjoy meat on a couple of holidays.
Putting aside the annoyance I have for arrogant vegetarians, what's wrong with somebody making a vegetarian Thanksgiving meal? Even if you think it's lame, what they eat is their choice.
Y'know, there are plenty of vegetarians in the world who aren't obnoxious about it, who readily admit that bacon tastes good and won't necessarily kill you, and who don't feel obliged to regurgitate PETA's sad attempts at propaganda. You just don't hear from them.
Sorry people, but tofurkey tastes pretty good. Really. Try it with an open mind and you'll see.
I never did turkey on Thanksgiving, though - we're a honey-baked ham family, saving the turkey for Christmas. Yum.
The problem with saying that turkey tastes gross is that for this comparison that is irrelevant.
"I say meat eater, you should eat this tofurkey for thanksgiving. nevermind we can't attest to the taste being even half that (good or bad) of a real turkey, here are 10 reasons to eat one. Most of them are pleas to vanity, health, and ethics. but none of them speak of taste"
if you want a meat eater to eat your meatless product, you must advertise that it is delicious as fuck and not try and convince someone of things they ignore day in and day out.
in other words you are using the wrong message to convince meat eaters, and are using reasons that vegans y vegetarians already use to justify why they dont eat meat.
Vegetarian chicks may be hot, but do they swallow?
I'm with Fnarf and Calvin... mmm... spaghetti... bacon... eggs... cream...
I'm no factory-farmed-turkey apologist. We have ways of getting non-factory-farmed-turkeys...
Whatever. I should never have to eat imitation meat just to express an "open mind". That is ridiculous on 5,394,278 levels.
@ 31, no one said you had to "just to express and open mind." Your interpretation is absurd. I said try it WITH and open mind. WITH WITH WITH. See, most people don't know shit about tofu and automatically don't like it because everyone says they don't like it when they've never even tried it.
Starting to understand? Need more help?
trying it with an open mind is ridiculous. you are judging the goddamn tofurkey as a turkey substitute. This is a comparison of products! If you already love turkey then you have to judge tofurkey based on how it measures up to what you love. an open mind? an open mind would presuppose that you have no preference to begin with.
@ 33, they may market it that way but that doesn't mean you have to approach it that way.
I'm proud to say that my family and I will not be serving turkey this Thanksgiving.
We're having leg of lamb instead.
Tons of people eat tofurkys for the holidays, but it's not as if we're exactly inundated with tofurky stories or pressure trips from them to not eat turkey. For every one of them that gets holier-than-thou about it, we have to hear 10 hipster dumbshits crying about it and redoubling their efforts to eat real meat turkey. Congratulations, you eat turkey. Now shut the fuck up about it.
Who said anything about not eating meatless products? I love meatless FOOD, like vegetables and grains. But tofurkey is Frankenfood, fake gunk pretending to be meat. It is imitating meat. Why would you eat imitation anything? Eat some real food, not something that's been mixed up in an "organic" chemical lab. If you don't want to eat meat, don't; but if you're going to go to all that trouble to FAKE the meat experience, expect ridicule. No one will ridicule you for eating proper vegetable food.
I love me a big juicy slab of meat. For realz.
1. you can judge it by it's own merits
2. then you decide whether you want it more than a real turkey based on a comparison of many factors. It's not like we come into our teens and 20s without prior knowledge of turkey and it's not like we can just shut off the comparison of the two.
Also, how the crap do you make gravy from a tofurkey?
@21 - Really? Human flesh? Jeez, I really like Thanksgiving turkey, so I might just have to try eating a person, just to see if it lives up to the hype.
Why the fuck would I try fake turkey when I love real turkey? That isn't WITH an open mind. That isn't HAVING an open mind. There is NO REASON for me to try FAKE TURKEY because I LIKE REAL FUCKING MEAT.
Should I go fuck a girl WITH an open mind this thanksgiving, you shithead? Everybody tells me it's sugar and spice and everything nice. How closed-minded of me to never consider.
And further to Mr. Poe...why are so many vegetarian products made in the shape of meats (patties, hot dogs)?
I have fallen for the trap of trying vegetarian meat too many times. While vegetarian corndogs weren't completely awful, they didn't compare to the real thing. But, vegetarian bacon was the last straw. This stuff should be outlawed.
Tofurkey? Why not just take big steaming dump on a plate and call it Thanksgiving?
The next time somebody tries to convince me to eat a vegetarian meat product, I am going to shove a pound of raw hamburger down their throat.
@26 well, we're kind of like the voice of reasonable Christians amidst the absurdities of the religious right.
@ 39, they have a good recipe for mushroom gravy on the box. I know, that's a snark you made, but I was surprised at how good it was. I'm sure it would be improved with turkey grease, of course...
Why do people have to take such extreme positions on this? Why is it even a big deal? I have a Thanksgiving meal with friends, some are vegetarian, it's potluck, no big deal. We eat and drink and try new things.
But whenever my boyfriend is working down in Seattle, he gets mocked for being vegetarian.
Get over it already! Different strokes, people.
"Tofurkey? Why not just take big steaming dump on a plate and call it Thanksgiving?"
Amen. "Come on, guys. Everybody pitch in. Okay. Now get the parsley flakes."
Mr. Poe, why are you always such a jerk?
Is it because you found out that your MySpace #1 guy ("husband", according to his profile) posts sex solicitations in the Casual Encounters section of Craigslist?
I saw his picture the other day and recognized it from your profile. I have the screen cap if you want a copy.
@ 41, you were the one who responded with a dumb reply. If you didn't want to try it, you should have just kept your yap shut. I know you don't usually think before you post, but you really should try to.
why would he want to change his ways just to impress some bigoted vegan bitch?
Uh, same reason any one does anything. To get laid.
Actually, human flesh is more like pork judging by the way the fat sits on top of the muscle.
MMM, human-I mean-pork...
Yeah he's pretty broken up about me leaving him. He'll get over it. I think it's equally pathetic that you cruise craigslist for sex, too. You're both losers.
I was raised to be a jerk.
@36, this city is full of smug assholes just waiting for a chance to express their holier-than-thou (yes, the meme that won't die on SLOG) way of life, just sit back and roast some smores. This message goes out to everyone on all sides of this "debate".
I don't think any vegetarians or vegans really believe that mock meats taste better than the real thing, I think other things make them try it, most of them for a combination of the 10 reasons the dude listed in his email.
I also think your response, Dan, was a little bit harsh. He wasn't placing any judgment on you, but instead trying to give you a few reasons that you might try eating vegetarian for Thanksgiving. That being said, I think campaigning for vegetarianism on Thanksgiving is like talking Judaism up on Christmas. People are pretty damn set in their ways and don't like change.
Vegan high school chicks are generally not up for a good pounding as their bones snap too easily. Juvenile osteoporosis, binging and purging lentils, no bloodlust - three strikes against decent sex.
Wow. You know vegetarians and vegans have better nutrition on average than meat eaters, right? (Wikipedia link, but you can google some more to find the specific nutrient deficiencies that meat eaters have over vegans/vegetarians.)
There hasn't been a ton of research on this, because it takes a long time and is hard to find random groups, but early studies show vegan diets lengthen life longer than not smoking. Making your kid a life-long meat eater is probably worse for him/her than hooking him/her on Marlboro Reds for life.
What's the point of eating meat anymore? It's the #1 consumer cause of global warming, probably the #1 cause of preventable death, provides no nutrients that can't easily be found elsewhere, and it's completely avoidable if you live in a city like Seattle. The only real answer to why people here continue to eat meat is "tradition," which is the same answer people give to keeping same-sex marriage banned.
Yeah, milk doesn't help build strong bones, but instead is a cause of osteoporosis. http://www.babyreference.com/MilkingYourBones.htm
that's why the FDA has banned those "Milk builds healthy bones" advertisements that used to be around.
Naw Poe, I look at Craigs shadenfraud style.
Sorry, really. My comment was completely outrageous.
You go girl.
@56: People eat meat for the same reasons they smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol: they like it. Also, meat is delicious.
Thxgiving recipies, from my meat-clogged
1. For real meaty flava, cover your turkey with 3 strips of bacon during the cooking process. Tender-meaty-licious!
2. While you wait, make up some pigs-in-a-blanket, UK-style: roll up some small pork sausage balls, and wrap them in bacon. Bake for about 30-45 minutes at around 350 degrees.
3. No thanksgiving dinnner is complete w/o brussel sprouts with pancetta. Get a big sack of fresh brussel sprouts and a package of pancetta. chop the sprouts in half, and chop the pancetta into small strips. Dice up some shallots, and add all to a baking pan. Season with salt and pepper, and drizzle with olive oil. Bake for about 30 minutes @ 350 degrees.
Oh, and vegetarians, enjoy that tofuckuey, and I'll enjoy my meat-fest. Peace!
My dad and my sister are veg. My mom and I just don't like the taste of turkey. SO, only my mom's brother, my dad's girlfriend, and my husband will be eating the very small turkey my dad will be smoking. My mom and I will share a roast chicken. 'Cause you gotta carve something.
I can't deal with vegans. I've never met one I could even remotely stomach. Vegetarians, OK, cool, but vegans are fucking appalling, and willing to say just about anything to recruit you. Like Evangelical Christians, only with a less attractive food plan.
Also, I have a Thanksgiving Day PLAN, if anyone wants a document full of recipes (except for the poultry, my vegetarian dad is quite good at applying heat to animal flesh).
Jamie, the point of eating meat is cause it tastes good. end of story. there is no more reason or justification. meat tastes good and is good in a variety of ways.
also, the comparison of kids eating meat being worse than smoking...children grow up and have a choice. eating meat isnt an addiction is it? are you claiming it is?
matt from denver. the mushroom gravy would be improved with turkey drippings that contain bacon grease. bacon grease is awesome for cooking and basting. as is goose fat. goose fat and bacon grease . but the real question is, does the recipe forthe mushroom gravy actually contain anything from the tofurkey or is it something you make independent of the tofurkey?
I love me a big juicy slab of meat. For realz.
oh. my. lord. I think I just messed my trousers.
Well, it is true that Vegans taste better.
@57 There were about five things wrong with that article, not including the website it's on.
What kind of fucking idiot quotes wikipedia?
@64: Though they don't necessarily smell better.
@ 62, it was something outside the tofurkey. You're supposed to baste it with an OJ/soy sauce mixture, but the stuff that runs off cooks to a gummy paste so it can't be used to make anything.
Yum... bacon grease. My wife's grandmother apparently used to add it to potato salad in the summer.
Still, there's much more point to eating meat than that it tastes good. That's the only point to eating ding dongs, but meat, in proper portions (no super sizes) and seldom servings (don't eat it every single day) is very healthy for you.
I was a vegetarian for quite a long time. The thing I gained from it was a taste for and an appreciation of stuff like whole grains, soy, nuts, seeds, seitan, tofu -- all that kind of shit. Opened my mind.
But I did indulge, despite my philosophy, in bacon as a guilty pleasure, and TURKEY over the holidays. There are no vegertaian equivalents (fakin' bacon? heeaAAAVEee!), though I'd have basically no problem with the food on a vegetarian thanksgiving table.
Being from an East Coast / Eastern Euromutt family and pre-vegegarian in those days, there was always lobster pie, and ham studded with whole cloves or lamb with mint jelly on the table with the turkey.
Those food memories retain their good flavors forever, it seems, even if you go vegetarian somewhere down the line.
I love Thanksgiving. I hope you all eat well and enjoy yourselves and your company.
dude, milk may cause osteoprosis?
what is with both sweden and finland having higher calcium intake and lower hip fractures? or the UK having slightly higher intake than the US and having lower fractures?
im not saying that milk is good or bad for bones but it doesnt seem that there is a very consistent correlation between hip fractures and calcium intake. consuming calcium is good for preventing other things though...like kidney stones. thank god for broccoli and spinach though, right?
and i agree that Tofurkey and vegetarian fake meat in general is lousy. Except for the fake burgers, those are ok.
Kat @ 61: "I can't deal with vegans. I've never met one I could even remotely stomach. Vegetarians, OK, cool, but vegans are fucking appalling, and willing to say just about anything to recruit you. Like Evangelical Christians, only with a less attractive food plan."
My guess is, unless you're either incredibly sheltered or a judgmental jerk, you've met plenty of vegans whom you could stomach - maybe even liked - you just didn't know they were vegans because they're normal people who don't preach about their dietary choices. We are out there. Your problem is judging the whole population based on the vocal preachy a-holes (your Evangelical Christian analogy works well in this case).
Will, you still havent explained how you know high school girls that are vegan y vegetarian are more attractive and how you know which girls are in fact vegan and vegetarian.
I like Tofurky for the cute fake wishbone that comes in the deluxe pack. I only wish they drugged Tofurky so I could enjoy that post Butterball coma too.
All you big manly meat eaters ought to read the Omniovore's Delimma. You might be surprised to find out you're just a bunch of tortillas on legs.
Heh. One of the many things I learned about food when I was a veg is that parsley and seaweed are both packed with calcium.
I know 2 vegans who are very respectful about how much they suck. And they make fun of me for all of the things I eat, too. There is no actual judging, and we can crack jokes about our differences.
Levislade has a point about never-exactly knowing. More than half of my office doesn't know I'm gay. Why should they? Why should I know they're vegan?
But Kat does have a point. Because I have met plenty of preachy Vegans. Plenty.
It's funny how guilt makes people thin-skinned. Any time you suggest that animal exploiters should stop enslaving and murdering animals, they can't merely say no to you, or ignore you. They have turn around and tear you to shreds: mock you, call you names, question your sanity. It's a lot like Bill O'Reilly defending the war -- he can't just say he disagrees with you. He has to call you a traitor. He has to lump together everybody who thinks differently with terrorists. That's his conscience making him so defensive.
By the way, making a vegan Turkish dinner is a much cooler way to do Thanksgiving than eating fake turkey.
And not eating a turkey doesn't save a turkey's life—they're already dead and frozen—it just makes the turkey's existence a waste. Heh.
gregg, you do realize that turkeys produce Tryptophan in abundance naturally right? it is one of the 20 standard amino acids you realize?
the turkey roast made by Quorn is pretty fantastic (coming from a vegetarian who likes turkey and hates tofurkey.) plus, quorn products were developed in the '80s when people thought we'd have a worldwide meat crisis (hurr) by now and it's grown in VATS.
@73 - I'm guessing because it's an idiotic question. The funny thing about high school is that most of us over the age of 17 have been through it. Maybe not you, though? That would explain some things.
@70: if you read more into the article, it goes into the fact that although other countries populations have higher calcium intake, much of that is from leafy green veggies, as you said, from kale, spinach, broccoli, etc. which contain a lot of calcium.
@62: meat isn't really addictive, but cheese is. do some reading on the physicians committed to responsible medicine (PCRM) website, they have a few articles about it.
I smell a hundo.
Well, let's see...I live in Los Angeles and have my whole life, I lived amongst vegans for years in college (roommates and their friends), I worked at a well-trafficked RAW restaurant in Los Angeles for a while, and many of my dad's clients (for whom I used to intern) are vegans...yup...I'm incredibly sheltered and not at all exposed to this thing you call "vegan."
Would you care to guess again?
My favorite was my roommate who, IN A BOARDING HOUSE, would demand that people clean all the animal flesh from their sections of the refrigerators, and if someone let meat thawing on the prep table, she would cover it with a dirty dishtowel and leave a note about "please don't leave your MURDER lying around."
elenchos, i dont think it is guilt, i think it is the "i know better than you, and you are an awful person for what you do" that is what a person who picks at another person for eating meat is saying.
also for all the sanctimonious bullshit about meat eaters getting defensive when called out, getting called out is something that a polemic vegan or vegetarian does. This flies in the face of the "passive vegetarian/vegan person" myth.
any time any group of people suggests the other is wrong you get the loudest people on either side yelling at the other.
What's the point of eating meat anymore? It's the #1 consumer cause of global warming, probably the #1 cause of preventable death
Waaaay too simplistic. Not everything in the category "meat" is more environmentally inefficient than everything in the category "not meat". As it happens, for example, a pound of milk protein requires more energy to produce than a pound of chicken. And some vegetables are very inefficiently grown relative to meat.
As for the "preventable death", there is no solid evidence that animal protein causes serious health problems. Animal fats do, but you can eat lean meat. Neither a vegetarian nor an omnivorous diet is inherently healthy or unhealthy.
@79: not to be rude, but is the concept of economics completely lost on you?
Yeah Dan, definitely go for the wild turkey; people who have never eaten one simply have no idea what they're missing by consuming those juiced-up-on-steroids mutants the poultry industry has foisted on us over the years.
And I've said it before, but there's no harm in saying it again -
EVERYTHING tastes BETTER - with BACON!
(My grandmother still keeps the crock of bacon-grease on the top of the stove; it probably contributed to my grandfather's fatal heart-attack, but he wouldn't have had it any other way.)
And to all you Vegans - humans have evolved to possess canine teeth for a reason, and it ain't for chewing plant-fiber; that's what the molars are for.
cheese is so addictive that...what happens?
i'm waiting for the addictiveness of cheese to be proved a bad thing.
I agree that Quorn is a lot more pleasant than other fake-meats. In London, it's what they sell in McDonald's and that as meat-alternative.
On the other hand, I don't get fake meat at all. It's like making a snowman and calling it your boyfriend.
@78 these quilt tripping people you talk about are the the retards still spending $3 a gallon + cost + insurance on cars, commuting 50+ miles everyday, taking groceries home in plastic bags, et. al., while bitching about global warming, hunger, et. al. It's called hypocrisy, and it's the way the world works. Pointing out that the simplest way to make an environmental impact is by the food you chose to eat never works - selfishness always trumps utility, plus if you're stupid enough to bring it up, this sort of comment thread is what you get. So like I said, pull up a lawn chair pal, I got some vegan mallows we can roast up in hyaw.
i personally like reason #8. honestly, how many times has this happened to all of you?
i don't know about you, but I'm eating pit bull this thanksgiving. In bars. While smoking.
so Cook, you're telling me that I can eat broccoli, spinach, leafy greens and still get calcium?
I do both! I drink milk and eat leafy greens! I dont get this bizarre concept that people that eat meat and dairy do so at the exclusion of other food sources. just because vegans y vegetarians eat certain foods at the exclusion of others doesnt mean omnivores do.
Actually, I decided to stop pretending I like turkey when I heard SNL's "Basted in Blood". I never liked the taste, and then I was like...fucking A right, I don't need to contribute to this crap.
@96 Thank you!!! Damn. You would think all omnivores had shut down and died at the ripe old age of four.
@96 - yeah, vegetarian evangelists always seem to argue in that way: "My leafy greens and tofu are healthier than your BBQ ribs! See, vegetarianism is healthier!" Of course, you could also compare a huge plate of French fries cooked in shortening to a salmon fillet, and suddenly it's a different story.
@85 - Did you actually read my post? I said that unless you're incredibly sheltered you have probably met vegans that you liked, you just didn't know they were vegans. Those people you lived with? They weren't just vegans, they were assholes. I think most people live with them at some point or other.
Every time one of these comes up I swear I won't get sucked in . . . never works.
Will @64 - you are right about that. Gotta give credit to the vegans for having better-tasting vag.
I've never understood the appeal of turkey. The dark meat at least has some moisture/flavor, but the white meat? Ugh. I've heard that heirloom turkeys are good and taste the way turkeys are supposed to/used to taste, but I haven't had the opportunity to try them.
And, despite the disgusting nature of Tofurkey, there's no way it's as bad as lentil roast. That just sounds nasty.
@100 it's a weekly occurrence. It's Dan's new Every child deserves a Stupid Vegetarian.
@96&98: I'm not saying because you drink milk you don't eat leafy greens, I was saying that the study of AMERICANS eating habits showed a general lack of dark, leafy greens in their diet to provide calcium, and instead showed that their calcium comes mostly from dairy. there are a lot of vegans and vegetarians with bad health as well, except they aren't the AVERAGE vegan/vegetarian. neither are you. I'm sorry if this doesn't make sense to you.
levislade, never argue with an idiot;
they bring you down to their level and beat you on experience.
if we are discussing the averages then...
what makes you think the average american is going to actually change to be a vegan or vegetarian if they can't even muster enough courage to try something leafy and green?
and where do you think swedes and finns get most of their calcium intake from? i have a hint for you; it isnt the abundant leafy greens of scandanavia.
@57 A chiropractor quoting a small study done by an unreknowned Chinese university is hardly the definitive answer on milk. Milk is not and has never been a Chinese dietary staple anyway.
Was the original message sent by the makers of Tofurkey by the way? It smacks of ad campaign.
I used to eat dry dog food when I was a kid.
I tried tofurkey, a few Thanksgivings ago, at the urging of my partner's vegetarian nephew.
Tofurkey tastes just like the dry dog food, except that Tofurkey has a nasty aftertaste.
Why do vegetarians insist on making things that supposedly taste like meat? Either eat the damn meat or not - don't be cooking up nasty ass substitutes and asking others to try them. Tofurkey tastes like turkey...ASS!
eating more leafy greens is easy for people but wrapping that message in "vegans and vegetarians are healthier" is not helpful or insightful.
it isnt a matter of "what are you eating" but rather, "what are you not eating?" if the omnivore and vegan/veggie are missing some things in their diet, you could likely assume that neither would be healthy. I think part of the reason that vegans/veggies are healthier too is because they are more health conscious. it is like self selecting polls in a way. most vegans/veggies have to be more aware of the health, or are more inspired by it than otherwise. one who is omnivorous is most likely not very health conscious because there isn't a short term tangible result of bad nutrition like there would be if you were vegan/veggie and had poor nutrition.
As a vegetarian I'll just echo everyone else that Tofurkey is just an awful awful thing to eat. At my house on Thanksgiving we have a carrot-cashew loaf with stuffing, that's actually pretty good.
Wow, so let's all have sympathy for that poor turkey and unite in our newly found friendship by all getting together to bash on fat people. Because turkeys have feelings, but fat people don't. Duh, everyone knows that.
"Was the original message sent by the makers of Tofurkey by the way? It smacks of ad campaign."
It doesn't appear to have been. If you Google "Eugene Krautt", you'll find that he's in Seattle and has a fondness for writing letters to the editor on animal rights topics. Tofurky is made down in Oregon.
"At my house on Thanksgiving we have a carrot-cashew loaf with stuffing, that's actually pretty good."
This actually sounds like it has potential as long as you don't try to pass it off as a vegetarian meatloaf.
"Why do vegetarians insist on making things that supposedly taste like meat? Either eat the damn meat or not"
You know, I've heard this mind-numbingly stupid point made by a number of otherwise intelligent people. Vegetarians eat things that taste like meat because they like the taste of meat. Duh.
Bison, a person who thinks that fake meat tastes ANYTHING like real meat is a stupid person who deserves all the abuse that can be mustered.
If you like the taste of meat, EAT MEAT. If you like the taste of vegetables, eat vegetables. If you like the taste of both, eat both.
But if you like to eat heavily processed industrial food, leave the sanctimony at home. Fake meat is bullshit.
@73 - my son is in high school, I'm on facebook, and he tells me what's going on, plus i listen.
Personally, I don't see why they're considered hot, don't usually get why most older guys are obsessed with teen girls, but I try to listen, it's what parents do.
And dry dog food was one of my yummy childhood faves too, @108. Much better than tofurkey.
"She don't eat meat but she sure likes to bone".
I grew up eating hot dogs, hamburgers, lunch meat, all that sort of stuff. Now I'm a vegetarian and I still want to eat the same stuff, without the blood and death. So it's veggie dogs and tofurkey for this kid. Sure I eat a bunch of stuff that isn't meat substitute, but when I want a corn dog, I don't want squash and corn casserole.
de gustibus non disputandum est
Not to mention, if you're not down with the current state of affairs in the meat processing industry, I suppose it would be easy to believe that what you're tasting is meat when you eat most "real meat" these days.
Being accused of sanctimony by THE Fnarf was priceless, though, so thank you for that.
thank god someone cracked open the latin to make a point about taste. this was all too pedestrian for the slog.
121 comments and it's just past noon? Now I know why Dan posts these things!
Many vegetarian meat substitutes are for meat products that can hardly be called real meat. Hot dogs, corn dogs, lunch meat (anything that doesn't come from a real deli) can hardly be considered real, which probably explains why the vegetarian equivalents don't taste all that different.
What is wrong with you? Spaghetti carbonara on Thanksgiving are you nuts? It's Turkey, Apple Pie, Sweet potato Pie and Stuffing or nothing.
This and wanting to hang Santa on a Cross has me thinking I must renounce all family ties!!! You have been given over to the dark side Fnarf...
Ahhh.. What the heck it probably just makes you all the funner!
You guys have obviously never tried the sausages Tofurky makes.
SUN DRIED TOMATO AND BASIL, people.
They're good. -shrug-
Is anybody else planning on finishing off their TG dinner off with some wholesome manjam?
Oops. Fuck. I hate typos.
Glad to be of service. It's somehow reassuring to know that they were having these same sorts of pointless arguments a couple of thousand years ago.
@ 124, besides completely vegetarian thanksgivings I once had grilled seafood skewers (prawns, scallops, and salmon marinated in garlic olive oil) as the main course. I'd do that again but I'm not made of money.
I googled "top 10 reason to skip turkey" and it appears in dozens of web sites. So it is definately a vegan agit-prop campaign. That's fine, I suppose, but let's not pretend it is our own spontaneous idea, OK Eugene?. It looks like farmusa may be the first post.
@112 I googled Eugene Krautt as well and the next site down from the PI is a pro-meat consumer group website that says that the letter he sent to the PI appeared in the exact wording in 30 other papers nation-wide.
I am vegan and enjoy not eating meat or turkey for that matter. So, in all honest, you're the dumbass for actiing like the stereotype of someone who does not understand vegetarianism.
Bryan, you are a dumbass for posting more than once. You tool-ass vegan.
"Yeah, my kid’s going to brag about that cool “tofurkey”—and then get his ass kicked."
Interesting parallel - I just read an article in a national newspaper saying gay people shouldn't be allowed to adopt as it would leave their kids open to bullying (i.e. "asskickings").
I guess everyone's an irrational bigot about something, eh Dan?
meat-eating-shit-for-brains, Computer glitch. However; enjoy your early death.
I'd rather die young and happy than live a thousand meat-free years.
what do you have to live for if all you do is deprive yourself of simple pleasures?
Anger causes far more premature death than meat consumption, Bryan.
It's being deprived. It's actually caring about something other than yourself. Hard concept for American's.
also, how much more early are we talking about? like 10 years? 15? 20? 2?
think about it. You gained X extra years in your 70s and 80s for X years of no meat. one should evaluate the ratio of meet free years to likely extra years before making statements like "enjoy early death meat eater". it's not like most if even many meat eaters drop dead at the age of 50 simply due to meat. rather it is most likely over consumption of food period that leads to it.
Same thing with cigarettes. Non smokers only live a few years more. You should have some smokes with your meat.
Murdere. I hate you I hate you I hate you I hate you!
You care so much more about other people that you resort to name calling for people that are different. I didn't really think it was so simple!
Yeah but the direct negative effects of smoking are much more easily realized than eating meat and dairy for a life time. Smoking has such a clear cut impact on health while people can eat meat and dairy and still be healthy in their twilight years, if they have balanced diets and exercise, which is what most people omni, vegan, or veggie should be doing anyway.
A lot of people resorted to name calling in the face of the holocaust too. I think it's an understandable aspect of human nature to show revulsion in the face of so much evil.
It's funny how apologists for meat use exactly the same disingenuous skepticism as the tobacco industry. Or the oil companies undermining of the evidence of global warming. You can pretend the facts to mean what they mean, but pretending won't save you.
Aaaaaand Godwin is invoked. Thanks for playing, people; see you tomorrow.
elenchos, why should I have smokes with my meat and what facts are you talking about?
you could never justify how meat and cigs are exactly the same. i dont understand how you created such a ridiculous analogy to think that "Hey, You eat meat, so I'm sure you wouldnt mind smoking one bit."
What kind of person feels guilty over your atrocious pigeon holing?
also name calling, like what bryan did, makes vegan/veggies look like moronic idiots who couldnt muster a credible reply. to be fair i dont think bryan speaks english as his first language, at least i hope not.
Alright, thread over; Godwin has been invoked. See you guys again next week. I'll be on the sidelines roasting mallows.
Murderers. Guilty, guilty murderers feel an inner shame they can never be free of as long as they kill and torture for pleasure.
It is true that you get much different kinds of cancers from meat than from cigarettes. They are not exactly the same. It is most sickening to me to discuss the practical or health aspects of murdering animals. As if we would bring back slavery if it made economic sense.
Nazi comparisons are always fun. Here's a fun comparison of my own:
Meat is murder folks always remind me of child molesters - they just love a little too much for their own good. Stop the love before it's too late!
Murdering animals for food is what many other animals do. they just arent as good at it as we are. And torturing it? Guilt by association I suppose... although I dont think I would have a hard time killing an animal directly. It's not like they are a person or anything. it's not like i can look into the eyes of an animal that is tasty and think "gee, there is something there that needs to be protected." nay, it is when I look into the eye of an animal that is tasty and say "through the teeth and past the gums, look out belly here it comes!"
as for getting cancer from meat vs. smoking? totally worth it. killing animals for food? totally worth it. causing you to have a fit? totally worth it.
But child rape isn't an extreme form of love. It's an extreme form of exploitation. Exploitation... kind of like, um, killing animals?
They do it because it feels good to them and they don't care how much pain it causes. Kind of like eating animals because it tastes good and you don't care how much animals have to suffer so you can eat something you enjoy.
Meat eaters are child molesters.
And I'm not going to eat meat just because that's what my dog would do, any more than I would sit in the living room and lick my asshole because that's what my dog would to.
Don't you ever watch Dateline? Those guys all think they are doing it out of love.. Of course they are completely misguided - Just like you folks.
I want to be careful here not to compare all vegetarians to child-molesters - only the wack-jobs.
Vegans don't watch ignorant garbage like Dateline. Vegans go to the opera or teach their children to speak French. Giving up meat isn't simply a about stopping the killing or being healthy. It is about being an overall better person.
animals arent people. one of the coolest things about being a human is that you can use your brain to categorize objects, people, etc. it is in using this capacity that you know that rape is wrong, and eating animals is nothing like rape.
Your dog likely doesnt eat meat anyway. he eats dry dog food which tastes like tofurkey. in a sense you are just like your dog because neither of you eat meat and both consume something similar in taste.
now following what you're thinking:
we aren't like animals so we shouldn't eat meat.
animals are like us so we shouldn't eat meat.
I'm starting to think that elenchos is doing parody.
I hope to god you are right.
Whatever, Bryan. Your mom is so stupid she spelled Brian wrong. Naturally, she raised you to think as retarded as she does.
All I'm trying to say is that you should have morals. Exercise your moral capacity to refrain from an immoral act in spite of your base desires for pleasure.
Any time you try to make a moralistic argument against killing animals, you get called crazy. Morality makes people uncomfortable. It's easy to make light of them -- to claim you take as much pleasure in killing as you do in insulting people who make moralistic arguments. But as soon as you do that, you prove my point that you are cruel, like a child molesting Nazi.
any time you try to make a moralistic argument and example for other people to follow because you think it's super for yourself you get called crazy. especially if you are using analogies and polemic strategies that are beyond the ludicrous.
i find nothing immoral in killing meat because I dont see the connection between the morality of child molestation and killing a race of people, and people killing meat and eating meat because it tastes well wicked. why can't I find child molestation and nazis wrong but find eating meat right?
cause they arent the same thing. and one doesnt cause a slippery slope into the other.
"Exercise your moral capacity to refrain from an immoral act in spite of your base desires for pleasure."
"Morality makes people uncomfortable."
Well, I was teetering on the fence. I was just about ready to give up meat, but Elenchos sounds just like Pat Robertson and 99% of the religious right. Time for a bacon cheeseburger with a fried egg on top.
Clint, stop the frat boy thing. We get it. "Ha ha ha, look at me! I'm still eating meat and you can't stop me!" It's been done. We're all quite familiar with the tired shtick you are trying to breathe life into.
The reason you can't see the immorality of killing animals is because you are immoral. It's very simple. Lack of empathy makes you a sociopath. If you could understand that you wouldn't be an immoral sociopath.
165, 162, etc.: dicto simpliciter ad dictum secundum quid.
The world's an awfully simple place when everyone who disagrees with you is wrong because they disagree with you. And that also makes them child-molesting Nazi sociopaths.
You do the cause of ethical vegetarianism a disservice with your ad hominem wingnuttery.
Every year I swear to god I'm gonna raise my thanksgiving turkey free range in my back yard, to avoid adding to the animal cruelty in the back yard. But what if some fucking cat attacked it? Or the Cooper's hawk that sits on the utility pole? I'm not going to serve maimed turkey for Thanksgiving.
Holy crap, your Latin is an embarrassment dude. Stop it. Please. Some people studied hard to learn that language and you make a mockery of them with your hamfisted attempts.
Don't worry about the Latin elenchos. The most important sentence is the last one.
"You do the cause of ethical vegetarianism a disservice with your ad hominem wingnuttery."
Simple, concise and 100% accurate. It is a perfect sentence. Enjoy your styro-bacon.
This is the most moral conversation I have ever seen on slog and I fall into the immoral category.
I'm an immoral child molesting barbarian!
I have to repent and get right with the veggie God and it happened right here on slog.
Dios Te Bendiga : )
Which is the greater embarrassment, me dropping the initial a or you displaying the absurdity of your reasoning on the internet for everyone to see?
Here's the thing.
You want to quit eating meat, because it bothers you. You realize all the people who aren't bothered by their animal killing are off reading about the college roommate rape murder in Italy, right? Right. But here you are, obsessing over veganism.
You are demanding that I talk you out of eating meat, and you're mad that I can't do it. Stop being mad about it. Nobody can talk you out of killing animals. That would be like talking Hitler out of being Hitler. There are no words somebody can throw at you that will make you have morals.
It's up to you. Stop wanting me to give you the argument you want. Just quit eating meat when you are ready to stop being a murderer. If you're not ready, you're not ready. But that isn't my fault.
what's a murder?
can you even really murder something that is a commodity? can you murder something that has no purpose to exist other than food?
you claim morality? moral how? you can only define morality in what you believe without explination, not with a basis in reason.
make you a deal elenchos, you start taking the medicine you need amd I will stop calling you crazy.
Right. The Nazis believed inferior races existed to be used by them. Pedophiles believed children are there to be used for their pleasure. And they too would be asking if it is really murder to kill them. They too would be saying they don't really feel pain. That's what a sociopath is: you look at other beings as mindless objects in orbit around your sole conscious mind.
Why would I make deals with such evil? It would be like making a deal with a terrorist.
Holy crap. 174 comments about turkey?
and yet elenchos, pedophiles harm people, and nazis harmed people. animals aremt people. its amazing that you can't see the difference between a chicken, a cow, a pig, and a person. how little do you value humans to compare them to animals?
Please for the love of God, stop killing the living soy-beings of the world. They were just minding their own business before you popped up and started genocide on their people. Isn't it enough that you already assassinate their docile cousins the plant-people? But no, you have begun to heavily target the soy-beings (SB) and why? Why I ask? What did they ever do to you? Is it because of their peaceful lifestyle? Is it because they have come to inhabit the majority of areas across the globe? I beg you for the love of God, stop the soy violence immediately! No more shall our SB friends be forced into the slave camps of Tofu, Tempe and the evil declinations of soy-turkey, soy-sausage, fakin-bacon and their ilk. Let them lead their lives they way THEY see fit. Please cease this vegan Imperialism today.
Where does soy come from? Is it asian or african?
The problem with proselytizing vegans is, you are saying DON'T EAT something. I am not saying eat, I'm just saying don't proselytize. I don't care what you eat. You care what I eat. That always, always, always puts you at a disadvantage.
I'm pretty sure soy is Mexican.
Interesting. We received the exact same letter at Salt Lake City Weekly from someone calling himself Sherman Watson.
Did Eugene Krautt say he was from Seattle? I'm wondering if it's ordinary astroturf or a concerted effort to get a stupid letter printed in as many alt-weeklies as possible.
Wow, elenchos wins the ass-hattery award by not only invoking the Holocaust, but also the spectre of terrorism and child molestation. Way to go elenchos, and you wonder why people think Veggies are such assholes, perhaps it's because so many of them such as yourself are. Oh, and by the way, wasn't Hitler a vegetarian?
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