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Thursday, October 16, 2008

Savage Love Letter of the Day

posted by on October 16 at 16:26 PM

How do you get over fear of acting like a pig?

I’m a 28 year-old straight male virgin. There are lots of insecurities that have prevented me from getting laid. I’m dealing with those and I’m making progress but the one area I’m stuck on is being afraid of being labeled a “pig.” The image of men is that we’re sex crazed maniacs and I never wanted to be like that so I went in the opposite direction and never pursued women. Pursuing women seems like a stalkerish thing to do. I acted like a friend even if I got what I thought were signals that she might be interested in a relationship. Women seem to to like me and I’ve always assumed that it was because I didn’t act like a “typical” guy. I have a normal sex drive and masturbate frequently while thinking about women so no homosexuality lurking about. But I have this stupid idea that showing a sexual interest is inherently disrespectful and I don’t want to be an asshole so I sit on the sidelines as other men get to date the women I want. There is this one girl that I just got over that I thought was sending me signals that I did nothing about. We flirted for two years, and I thought there was something between us but as it turns out she had a boyfriend the entire time. Someone else was showing an interest in her and when her relationship ended this other guy moved in and now he’s sleeping with her. If I hadn’t been such a coward I could have made pass at her and maybe I’d get to date her now. I need to fix this problem now before it’s too late.

I Need To Change

Let your inner pig out, INTC, you have my permission.

Here’s the thing about male piggishness, kiddo: women dig it; fags do too. What women don’t like, what fags don’t like, are guys who are incapable of moderating their piggishness. Everyone wants to be with someone who LUSTS after ‘em, or wants ‘em, who’ll take ‘em. You can be a good, respectful guy AND be a “pig” too. You just have to be able to turn it on and off as the situation requires—and if you could shut it off permanently, INTC, you can certainly shut it off intermittently.

The next time you’re interested in a woman, let her know—let her know you’re into her, give her your phone number, ask for hers. Force yourself to do it. Will she think you’re a pig? If she isn’t into you, she might. If she is, she won’t.

RSS icon Comments


Isn't this what kissing and holding hands are for?

Posted by Gloria | October 16, 2008 4:32 PM

Dan, he got past the hangup of not wanting to be a pig. He decided to be a pig go for it -- but he couldn't! Why? He's a coward!

That's the problem he wrote you to fix, not his old problem of, uh, deciding that he wasn't going to even try.

So. How does one make a man?

Posted by elenchos | October 16, 2008 4:38 PM

@1: ??

Posted by flamingbanjo | October 16, 2008 4:39 PM

I hope the guy I hooked up with on Monday night reads this. Wait, maybe this IS the guy I hooked up with on Monday night... GET OVER YOURSELF. Be aggressive. You want it? Get it. Be decisive. There is nothing hotter than being wanted (if you reciprocate, naturally). If a woman is giving you signals, verbal or otherwise, that she is receptive, get in there and make a move.

Posted by Suze | October 16, 2008 4:40 PM

@4 but she was ASKING for it, the way she was dancing.

Posted by devilsmoke | October 16, 2008 4:46 PM

This guy needs to get his ass kicked.

Posted by Tyler Durden | October 16, 2008 4:51 PM

actually, I rescind snarky comment after reading your blog post on it. what a lame dickwad.

Posted by devilsmoke | October 16, 2008 4:52 PM

I'm afraid I'm going to have to disagree with everyone here; if he so much looks at a woman he is raping them. mentally. with his gazes.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | October 16, 2008 4:59 PM

i believe mr. poe would tell you to throw it in her butt.

Posted by WWMrPD? | October 16, 2008 5:01 PM

And Jesus Christ, whatever you do, don't ever, ever, EVER, tell your first lover that you are a virgin if you are a man over 18. Lie if you have to. Lie, lie, lie. I sure wish I did. If you do tell her the truth, it will destroy everything, and even if you do get laid, the relationship will quickly turn ugly.

This may sound nasty, and it's extremely politically inncorrect, but in my experience most women have total contempt for sexually inexperienced men -it's a self-esteem thing, they feel like they are getting stuck with something nobody else wanted.

Posted by Late Starter | October 16, 2008 5:01 PM

I don't know. Maybe this guy is a hideously ugly douchebag, and women everywhere should count our lucky stars that he's so inhibited. Perhaps we should be encouraging him to continue his solitary, onanistic lifestyle. He certainly sounds vaguely douchey. And without a photo, I have to assume he's hideous. Dan, I'm afraid you may be doing the single gals of the world a disservice.

Posted by Providence | October 16, 2008 5:03 PM

Ugh. I'm guessing that this guy is from Seattle. Poor bastard. (If not, the guy who was with Suze definitely was from Seattle, and the described behavior is typical for the beast.)

I've never lived anywhere with a bigger concentration of either a) angry, hostile, self-absorbed women, or b) the passive, wimpy men who (ever-so-secretly) love them. It's probably worth pondering why there are so many of 'em here, but Seattle is definitely the world capital for wussy male behavior.

If INTC does happen to live here, he needs to move away as soon as humanly possible. If he can get somewhere with decent weather, where men and women both actually like to flirt, date and fuck (without the need for "sex-positive" movements, classes, or special hardware), and the whole "acting like a man" thing will almost automatically follow....

Posted by A Non Imus | October 16, 2008 5:05 PM

from the standpoint of a stepfather of a 20 year old, i have some sympathy for the kid. my daughter describes every guy who expresses interest in her or any of her friends as a "stalker".

Posted by max solomon | October 16, 2008 5:10 PM

Bullshit on lying about virginity if you're over 18. Speaking from experience (as a female who slept with a male virgin in his mid-twenties - and then proceeded to have a great long-term relationship with him): if she point-blank asks and you lie, she'll know you're lying and _then_ of course your chances won't be so great. Nobody wants to date a liar. Be disarmingly charming (and truthful!) instead, and you'll be handsomely rewarded.

Posted by someone special | October 16, 2008 5:15 PM

Oh dear, a nice guy. Not to be confused with the prototypical Nice Guy (well, probably not), but just someone who drank the Kool-Aid that expressing any interest whatsoever in a woman automatically relegated him to the creepy player/The Secret asshole category. Five'll get you ten this guy probably has a decent sized circle of platonic girl friends to boot and that they all complain about those guys in the bar who come up and ogle their tits and ask for phone numbers.

That's where I spent a lot of time in those formative social years, assuming (incorrectly) that expressing interest was a Bad Thing and that it was much smarter to do nothing and hope for the best. Big mistake and it's taken me a lot of time to get over that.

However! I learned something absolutely fascinating after a while. There's a world of difference between expressing your interest, in saying you like her, and being that drunk, mouth-breathing asshole. If you screw up your confidence, if you can ask questions or make statements without hemming and hawing and dancing around the goddamned topic ("I was wondering if maybe perhaps that is to say that I was curious because...") you'd be amazed at what you get.

At the right time, in the right place, saying "I'd really like to kiss you" is a more potent attractor than anything else.

Posted by Chris B | October 16, 2008 5:25 PM

The dude sounds shy the way I was shy back like 10 years ago. He's got to say what he wants, ask for little at first (i.e. I want to kiss you) and LISTEN, on the off chance that "she" wants the same thing. He must of course be ready to accept "no" at any time, but seriously a guy who communicates what he wants is far hotter than someone passive agressively lurking, waiting for some hard to decipher response from the woman he is near. If he keeps getting the same negative response he should run it past other people. I found my lesbian friends had the best advice.

Posted by sasha | October 16, 2008 5:35 PM

@10--I don't think it's politically incorrect at all, it's actually mostly true. (outside of maybe very religious women, and maybe desperate/depressed women who already know/think there is something wrong with themselves).

I once went on a date with a 25 year old guy (I was 18) who told me it was the first date he ever had. :I Punching me in the tits would have done less to ruin the mood.

Posted by EmmiG | October 16, 2008 5:44 PM

INTC, you ARE a pig (to some extent). so is every other dude. and women expect a certain amount of piggishness. so you need to own it, just don't turn into a total asshole. also, listen to 14 and not 10.

Posted by jon c | October 16, 2008 5:44 PM

Argh! This type of guy bothers me so much!

Has he ever considered how even more disrespectful it is for a man to "protect" a woman by not showing any sexual desire? Women have sexual desires of their own, and we don't need your misguided chivalry.

Posted by Ashley | October 16, 2008 6:15 PM

You get branded "stalker" by 13-25 y/o females if you are someone who expresses interest in her/her friends multiple times when she isn't interested in you.

For most females, it can be really hard to tell a guy who likes you to his face that you hate his guts. Most females try to show common courtesy while kind of making excuses, and a lot of guys mistake that for interest/friendliness so they will repeatedly approach a female and that's where a lot of the unfair "stalker" rumors get started.

Posted by EmmiG | October 16, 2008 6:17 PM

Whatever the hell happened to women showing a little agression? I mean, yeah, the guy should get in touch with his inner pig, but it bugs me that no one ever suggests that if women were doing more pursuing (and I don't mean 'signals', which men pretty much always read wrong), this sort of thing would be less of a problem.

I don't get the whole thing where women find a man who doesn't make a move unnatractive. Why not make the move yourself and save the time?

Posted by ceeb -- chickfedupwithweakchicks | October 16, 2008 6:24 PM

Newsflash. Women are also pigs. That's why they call the act of physical love 'Making Bacon'.

Posted by The Artist Formerly Known As Sigourney Beaver | October 16, 2008 6:29 PM

I'll add that even if she doesn't like him, I don't think she'll think he's a pig. Here's where pig comes in: you make a move, she says no, and you don't take no for an answer. That's where pig comes in. All else is welcome, or at least "flattering".

Posted by Phoebe | October 16, 2008 7:42 PM

Most people are pigs.

Most people are also idiots.

Coincidence? I think not.

Posted by J | October 16, 2008 8:08 PM

at 17, this would be cute. at 28, it's just pathetic. grow a pair already, dude.

Posted by ellarosa | October 16, 2008 8:19 PM

Whatever ... women are brutal. For starters, ANY advance that is unwelcome can turn into fucking drama. ESPECIALLY if the guy isn't exactly sure of what he is doing. Oh god it took me years, to gain any confidence whatsoever ...

Honestly women, 95% of the time it's on your terms anyways, regardless of the guys confidence level. To be successful, it's almost like we have to appear interested, but your opinion of us doesn't really matter. What the hell does that mean? It's almost like you fought for respect so much, that most guys are put of by the work in getting to know you. Chivalry is nearly dead.

And now it's ridiculous because the stakes seem to be even higher. It's almost to the point of ... you ask a girl out you are expected to be wanting to go steady with them. How the fuck are women so sure of themselve? How the fuck am I so sure I want to be steady with you? It's taken all the fun and mystery out of dating as every god damn relationship we have has to be a "serious relationship" or we risk social ostrisation.

So I don't know ... I do have two issues. One, it seems that all unwelcome advances are met with hostility. and Two, all welcome advances come with the expectation of a serious relationship (or at least serious on your terms.) Or maybe I haven't lived in the east coast in a while ...

I have no desire to go back to the days of "stand by your man". And yes, I am man enough to want to be held accountable when i genuinely fuck up, and learn how to treat a woman with respect.

I don't know.

Posted by formerly OR Matt | October 16, 2008 8:23 PM

#26, you are dead on.

I live in a very conservative area. The last time I tried to date, it was with a young lady that I got along with very well...because in all of brief conversations, she had just assumed that I was divorced like her (the topic of past marriges just never came up -honestly, we mostly talked movies right up until "Hey, want to go out to dinner?"). Right before our big date, she found out that I had GASP!)Never. Been. Married. Not. Even. Once.

This caused her to freak the fuck out. She automatically assumed I was a virgin (not true, but not far from the truth either), which was honestly hurtfull and just plain weird -really, that's the first thing she assumes when a guy doesn't have a ring? I had no idea any woman without a bonnet on thought that way anymore. She instantly got really cold and distant. It was an extremely awkward and brief meal.

It seems like the lower I aim, the angrier and more insulting the rejections get. After awhile the wall of hostility gets so acidic that I don't even want to risk touching it again.

Posted by Late Starter | October 16, 2008 9:38 PM

tear that pussy up, pussy.

Posted by Clint | October 16, 2008 10:26 PM

@27: Holy shit, dude. Move. Before your dick freezes off.

Yours truly,
An Honest-to-God Woman

Posted by TVDinner | October 16, 2008 10:30 PM

God that's terrible (and brings back memories). The culture that made this boy that way is sick.

Posted by Grant Cogswell | October 17, 2008 2:06 AM

Get yourself a hooker and pay for a good hand job. Act like a pig just once. Let a woman act like a pig, just once. Get over it and move on. Sometimes people obsess about things and don't know how to stop. This should stop it.

Posted by Vince | October 17, 2008 6:58 AM

hey dan give him my email- im a chick and i really dig virgins... he sounds like a fun challage.. ill bring the pig out in him in no time.. ;)

Posted by jess | October 17, 2008 9:26 AM

One more thing ...

At the end of the day being OVERLY respectful of women. In the long run doesn't help you respect women.

Posted by formerly OR Matt | October 17, 2008 10:12 AM

Dude needs to stop being so afraid of rejection, say what he wants, and not waste his time and attention on ladies who aren't into him enough to give him more than 'signals.' In other words, he needs to act like a man who wants to date.

Posted by Greg | October 17, 2008 11:05 AM

And finally, I AM a sex-crazed maniac and I'm damn proud of it.

Posted by Greg | October 17, 2008 11:05 AM

Was he raised by rad-feminists? I have a straight friend who was raised by a lesbian couple who really did not like mixing with men. Relating to women sexually is fraugt with anxiety for him. He is always self-checking for latent sexism. He is perpetually being dumped for women who end up going for the bad-boy type.

Posted by inkweary | October 17, 2008 11:50 AM

If the only reason you're trying to date women is to get laid then that does make you a pig. And at this point you're so self conscious of your virginity its making you think and act like a pig, because you've gotta get over your shyness and pursue women so that you can finally lose it. I find it weird that you're 28 and haven't had a relationship. If you'd had a real relationship, you would have had sex in it.

But really, there's tons of women out there who would love to devirginize you. Its fun to be that special first, so I think you should just get the word that you're a virgin out there and be a pig and lose it to someone who's only interested in that aspect of you, have it be a casual encounter. Then maybe you can start talking to women you like and pursue an actual relationship.

Posted by Karey | October 17, 2008 11:54 AM

This what happens when you treat your little kid that all men are scum.

And also why sports, ie NONemotional bonding isn't such a bad thing.

Posted by to single mothers | October 17, 2008 1:43 PM

This what happens when you teach your little kid that all men are scum.

And also why sports, ie NONemotional bonding isn't such a bad thing.

Posted by to single mothers | October 17, 2008 1:44 PM

Ignore the haters. Plenty of women are willing to "stoop" to sleeping with a virgin.

Start being a pig now, before you get involved in a lengthy relationship, else your fear of being a pig will carry over into the relationship - which will lead to frustrations all around.

What would help in being a pig is if you start looking forward to getting laid, instead of fearing it.

I was you two years ago. Embrace your inner pig and don't become me two years from now.

Posted by milquetoast anonymous | October 18, 2008 10:04 AM

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