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I would like to know what sacrifices she is making for "love."

Posted by Eww. | October 1, 2008 4:25 PM

Dan Savage obviously hasn't smoked his weed yet today.

You are right, but your writing is brutal.

I like it.

Posted by tomk | October 1, 2008 4:25 PM

Utterly Brilliant. And well said. I don't think it was brutal at all, it was honest and cut to the point of the matter.

Posted by MattD | October 1, 2008 4:29 PM

Well said!

Posted by James | October 1, 2008 4:29 PM

Christ, Dan. Harsh much?

Posted by White Blackula | October 1, 2008 4:30 PM

The only way she might have a case is if she'd said this to him before they got married. I doubt she did.

It's like that card with bride and groom at the altar, groom thinking "All I have to do is say 'I do' and I get bowjobs all the time." And she's thinking "All I have to do is say 'I do' and I never have to give a blowjob again."

Posted by Dean P | October 1, 2008 4:36 PM

It seems like this would be a good point to bring out another of Dan's frequently well made points: This is the great guy with the harmless kink that, if you leave, will ensure that your dating karma will only lead you to unbelievable assholes with intolerable kinks.

Posted by Collin | October 1, 2008 4:41 PM

This is no different than a woman who gets engaged to a guy who loves to watch football every Sunday, or play poker with the guys every week, or listen to obscure disco music on frequent occasions, or whatever, and then once the wedding gets close she pulls out the "now that we're married you need to grow up/I thought you'd stop once we got married/I don't want to marry someone who does that" card. It's all a bunch of disingenuous, manipulative horseshit. If you marry someone with the goal of changing them in to what you think they need to be, you're getting married for the wrong reasons. Excellent advice, Dan!

Posted by Hernandez | October 1, 2008 4:41 PM

well said. if this marriage happens, i forecast disaster and "a touch" of extra-marital secret spankings. she needs to lay off the quotation marks.

Posted by uncouthheathen | October 1, 2008 4:51 PM

Love requires sacrifice. Just not from her.

Knowing people like her exist makes growing old alone sound not so bad.

Posted by whatevernevermind | October 1, 2008 4:58 PM

Adding my voice to the approving chorus...well said, sir!

Posted by Matthew | October 1, 2008 4:59 PM

his descriptions of his bisexual activities sound... implausable & incomplete.

Posted by max solomon | October 1, 2008 5:01 PM

This calls for a full article response, not just a column... People like her make life miserable for everyone, including the new friends and lovers who come on to the scene to clean up the mess when these two get divorced.

Posted by L | October 1, 2008 5:09 PM

I felt a touch bisexual once, but some Theraflu cleared it up.

Posted by mint chocolate chip | October 1, 2008 5:11 PM

I honestly hope she does marry him, because 1.) he won't give up the guy spanking for long 2.) she'll get dumped for the spanking buddy. It's one of those divine justice things.

Posted by yucca flower | October 1, 2008 5:15 PM

Speaking of castrating SLOGS...

Posted by Jubilation T. Cornball | October 1, 2008 5:22 PM

If she feels like it's cheating, why doesn't she just come along and egg him on in punishing the other "naughty" boy?

Posted by Beguine | October 1, 2008 5:27 PM

7, 12 and the original advice to WB all sound good, but Dan's advice in the Savage Love column for DAD to get his daughter to tell him her turn-ons so as to reassure him that she's not being abused? Ick. She's an adult.

Posted by chicagogaydude | October 1, 2008 5:31 PM

I'm mostly annoyed and amused by her attitude that kink of any sort is immature. "I think that it's time for both of us to be grown ups" says more about her than anything else in the letter, because it says that she thinks these sorts of things are a phase. It strongly implies that they're just something you play with before you settle down to a lifetime of boring missionary-position with the same person, once a week or so.

Posted by KZ | October 1, 2008 5:40 PM

She should just be glad she's not getting married to Kenneth Tynan. He liked to spank girls, hard enough to break sticks on their ass, and fuck them too, and he didn't ask his wife if she was cool with it before or after. His diaries are a hoot.

Posted by Fnarf | October 1, 2008 5:45 PM

...Is anyone else amused by the reference to the fiance's "bottoms" in this specific context?

Otherwise, spectacular response to a selfish request.

Posted by Marla | October 1, 2008 6:03 PM

Now, now Bristol. If Levi wants to spank some bottoms, you should let him. It's the only joy he's got left at this point.

Posted by Sam | October 1, 2008 6:24 PM

time for us both to be grown ups grown ups? she sounds young and in parental mode. Is he? Kinks sometimes get old after time and fade. Rug rats keep parental sorts at home. Or, he will take up motorcross, horseback riding or something that he can use to explain the bruised bottom to the wife...

Posted by The Peanut Gallery | October 1, 2008 7:12 PM

I agree with everyone else. Wedded Blister is wrong, wrong, wrong.

I think women like Wedded Blister (WB) are common enough, though. I've known of women who felt entitled to demand that their partners give up all sorts of things--music, sex, physical contact, friendships, style of dress, are a few examples I've encountered--conditionally, to remain in their relationships. Women are socially conditioned to seek a self identity through others (Those oppressive, intrusive mother inlaws that show up from time to time on Dr. Phil are a good example.). Trying to force the people they're close to to change is how they deal with feeling powerless.

WB needs to get some boundaries, a hobby and a new partner. She needs to stop trying to fulfill her fantasies about adulthood and relationships at his expense. The spanker is not who she really wants and she needs to drop the belief that she can mold him into her idea of the proper husband. I'm not seeing any indication that she has it in her to accept her fiance as he is. I also wonder why the spanker hasn't left her yet.

Still, wrong as she is, I wouldn't call her "a manipulative piece of shit." The spanker should leave her, and soon. But WB is like lots of people have ridiculous ideas about marriage that have little connection to their day to day realities (think of the people who think they will suddenly be happy once they're married). WB was okay with the spanker's proclivities until she thought about marrying him. The only reason why she's suddenly not okay with his kink is because it doesn't fit in with her idea of marriage, and adulthood--although it certainly could. WB lacks the insight to understand this. I don't think she's abusing the spanker. I do think she's laying down an unfair ultimatum, but there's no indication here that she's trapping him in this relationship. The spanker can find someone else to love him who will accept his kink. Geez, it's pretty benign and all.

Posted by joining the chorus | October 1, 2008 7:18 PM

Dan's just pissed because he might lose his favorite spanking top.

Posted by dwight moody | October 1, 2008 7:24 PM

Please stop putting things in quotes!!!

Posted by sepiolida | October 1, 2008 7:45 PM

@24 Sorry, but she is a manipulative piece of shit.

Lots of people have ridiculous ideas about marriage that have little connection to their day to day realities, and most of them are manipulative pieces of shit as well.

Posted by Eddy968 | October 1, 2008 8:21 PM

Gee, what a great way to start a marriage.

"From now on, the only one doing any whipping will be ME!"

Posted by Irena | October 1, 2008 8:29 PM

This is why reading Savage Love makes me a better wife.

If she wants a vanilla "grown up" sex life, what the fuck is she doing dating this guy? He should bail as fast as he can.

Posted by Katy | October 1, 2008 8:34 PM

Today she says spanking is out. In a year, she'll refuse to swallow. Next she'll refuse to wear sexy outfits. Then she'll find doggy style too humiliating. After that she'll stop licking his balls. By the time he's 35 he'll be lucky to get missionary once every three months.

To her credit, at least she's giving the guy a warning about what's to come. Most guys don't get one.

Posted by 1969libertine | October 1, 2008 8:57 PM

Dr Laura Savage...

Posted by Sargon Bighorn | October 1, 2008 9:24 PM

Although I find no fault with your advice, the tone is brutal, and therefor likely to be ignored. Too bad, because it's good advice. It is only unfortunate that you couldn't say it in a little softer voice.

Posted by Reverse Polarity | October 1, 2008 9:33 PM

This letter seems fake (I think the spankin husband wrote it from the POV of the wife) but the basic problem is common I think, just because--when you're dating someone, little things that annoy you aren't as big a deal than if that person expects you to stay with them forever. Should you dump guys for annoying/weird traits right away so you aren't tempted to change them later on once they've already fallen for you/vice versa?

I think she's being honest by bringing it up before the wedding, that she doesn't really want to be with a guy who spanks other guys _forever_. If someone expects you to marry them maybe they should make sacrifices. He's asking her to give up her whole life, right? (no offense to married people but it does take away a lot of your freedom especially if you have kids and are a female). I don't see the manipulation really, if she was trying to blackmail him yea...but the only thing she is withholding is her future and freedom in exchange for him to stop spankin butts. Yea it sucks for him if he really "loves" her but fair is fair and no one has to marry you for anything, that's a pretty big request all on it's own.

Posted by EmmiG | October 1, 2008 9:44 PM

The old I'm going to change him thing. It will never last. I hope they don't have any kids.

Posted by jeffg166 | October 2, 2008 5:54 AM

"...time for us both to be grown ups."

Yes because spanking fetishes are a big hit with the kids today.

Posted by Lawrence | October 2, 2008 7:09 AM

I "think" she might have a "touch of a problem" with over-using "quotation marks"

Posted by Nixor | October 2, 2008 7:49 AM

Ugh! People who want to change the people they supposedly love have something wrong with them. You can't change anyone but yourself. You can set an example, but you can't expect change.

Posted by Vince | October 2, 2008 8:49 AM

I feel sorry for the husband, poor guy. Here he is thinking he hit the jackpot with a wife who doesn't mind the occasional night out, and then she springs this on him. I hope he dumps her ass, like, yesterday, and finds an awesome lady who really doesn't mind, or, as @17 suggests, gets into the action. Does kink karma work that way for the wronged party?

Posted by kuzibah | October 2, 2008 9:20 AM

Deny the "touch of bisexual" guy his "touch of bisexuality" and chance are he'll start sneaking around and end up with a "penetration of bisexuality."

Posted by Jeremy from Seattle | October 2, 2008 9:24 AM

#30 +100

Posted by Cyclist | October 2, 2008 9:38 AM

EmmiG @33:

What she's doing IS blackmail and manipulation. You're right in that, if she doesn't want to marry a spanker then she has every right not to marry a spanker, and both people do have to make sacrifices when they enter into the most holy union of matrimony, blah blah blah...

But you simply do not throw that ultimatum down AFTER dating, becoming engaged and are well on your way toward planning the wedding. That's like buying a bus ticket for one destination, and it's only when you're stuck on the bus that you find out you're not going where you planned. If she has a problem with what he does that's fine; but she should have made it clear it was a deal-breaker at the outset and not when they're planning the table floral arrangements for the reception. If he backs out because of this- and he should- he'll be the one "at fault" according to their family and friends, and he'll look like a perverted reprobate for choosing that over her. The pressure not to disappoint and shock the family, friends, and those close to him who are invited may be too much to bear and he'll feel obligated to do it; I know more than one person who wanted to back out but the machinery was already in motion.

The comments in her letter suggest to me that she was figuring all along that it was just a phase or that he'd give it up for her or what when he finally "grew up" that he'd grow out of it. This issue is completely beyond being simply about a sexual act it's emotional betrayal, what she did should make him think twice about with who it really is he's on a collision course for the alter.

Posted by rjsplow | October 2, 2008 10:45 AM

If she uses finger-quotes even half as often as she uses quotation marks, then I don't know what the guy saw in her in the first place. Does the word intercourse really need quotation marks?

Also, @30 ftw. This guy needs to get out while he can if his sex life is important to him. Being a "grown-up" is overrated and boring anyway.

Posted by T | October 2, 2008 11:12 AM

If the wife can't be honest about how she *really* feels about the spanking, then she may have an honesty-problem with any other issue that might come up in their marriage. What about their own sexual activity? What about the inlaws? What about whether to have a second or third child? Will she keep her real feelings to herself and then play bait-and-switch again?

I agree with Dan's advice.

Posted by MWH | October 2, 2008 12:23 PM

The ironic part is that this woman will one day find herself 35, kinky as all get-out, and many years since divorced from the kind of man she could really explore her sexuality with. And she will want to go back in time and strangle her stupid ultimatum-delivering younger self for driving that kinky man away.

Posted by Greg | October 2, 2008 1:25 PM

I agree. The only thing to be added is that the past tense of "lead" is "led." Not "lead." ("Lead" is the stuff that makes old paint dangerous.) N.B.

Anyway, if she goes through with this, she shouldn't be shocked if it turns out he's lying about having given up the spanking.

Posted by Prof | October 3, 2008 10:35 AM

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