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Tuesday, September 30, 2008


posted by on September 30 at 7:25 AM

OK, dig these numbers with your morning caffeine, via ThinkProgress:

DOW January 19, 2001: 10,587.59
DOW September 29, 2008: 10,365.45

NASDAQ Jan 19, 2001 = 2770.38
NASDAQ September 29, 2008 = 1983.73

CPI, January 19, 2001: 175
CPI, September 29, 2008: 219

Dollar exchange with Euro, January 19, 2001: 1.068
Dollar exchange with Euro, September 29, 2008: .695

How can anyone take these Republican fuckers seriously for even a minute? Since the party of Big Business, led by the first MBA President, took over, everything has gone to shit. And the national debt is up 71.9% too.

Of course, the Onion saw it coming.

RSS icon Comments


Okay -- I'm as liberal as the next guy. I want Obama to win. Voted for Gore blah blah blah... but I have had it up to my eyebrows with breathless comparisons of financial metrics from these arbitrary dates which happen to describe the beginning and (end? now?) of the Bush reign. This one is particularly bad -- like a crude connect-the-dots pictures of an Elephant walking of a money cliff. Can folks stretch their minds beyond the current partisan debate to encompass the idea that both political parties are complicit in this mess? That neither side has a monopoly on greed? And if you're going to throw these stats up at least explain your conspiracy theory that George W. Bush moved these markets. Or how Karl Rove forced Americans to borrow money they couldn't afford to pay back. Or how Alan Greenspan forced banks to write bad loans.

Posted by Open Your Eyes | September 30, 2008 7:56 AM

It's the duty of every generation from this point forward to make sure Republicans and Bush are made the primary actors in the failed government from 2000-2008

Posted by Bellevue Ave | September 30, 2008 7:57 AM

what is really unbelievable is that there are people out there that still defend W & neoconservative ideology. They remind me of the Japanese soldiers that were marooned on desert islands that thought WWII was still on.

Posted by Mike in MO | September 30, 2008 7:58 AM

Well, if we shouldn't take Republicans seriously, then how about laying off this Democrats for Rossi crap -- like now!

Anybody who thinks Rossi would govern this state any better than Bush has governed in DC is seriously and totally fucked.

If we are not to take Republicans seriously, then we need to vote them out at every level of government. That means YOU, Rob McKenna.

Posted by ivan | September 30, 2008 8:01 AM

Mr. Chicago Fan. It looks like you really think that a president has a lot of power to affect the economy. It just shows how little you understand about the role of the government and just in general economics.

Just for kicks you might want to entertain an opposing opinion:

Notable quotes:

"Income and wealth distribution. The latest World Bank estimates show that the richest 20% of U.S. households had a 45.8% share of total income in 2000, similar to the levels in the U.K. (44.0%) and Israel (44.9%). In 65 other countries the richest quintile had a larger share than in the U.S....

Economic growth. U.S. output has expanded faster than in most advanced economies since 2000. The IMF reports that real U.S. gross domestic product (GDP) grew at an average annual rate of 2.2% over the period 2001-2008 (including its forecast for the current year). President Bush will leave to his successor an economy 19% larger than the one he inherited from President Clinton. This U.S. expansion compares with 14% by France, 13% by Japan and just 8% by Italy and Germany over the same period....

Employment. The U.S. employment rate, measured by the percentage of people of working age (16-65 years) in jobs, has remained high by international standards. The latest OECD figures show a rate of 71.7% in 2006. This was more than five percentage points above the average for the euro area. The U.S. unemployment rate averaged 4.7% from 2001-2007. This compares with a 5.2% average rate during President Clinton's term of office, and is well below the euro zone average of 8.3% since 2000.

Anyhow... you sound just like another socialist thinking that the government will provide the next economic innovation for you. I suggest you rally like-minded people and start a kibbutz :)

- your neighborhood libertarian

Posted by Mike B | September 30, 2008 8:18 AM

The bargain hunters are buying on Wall Street this morning. Gloom and doom aside, the system is working. Bush is done and Democrats should stop enabling his disfunction. Pass another Ecomonic Stimulus Payment before the holidays and call it a day for W.

Posted by Vince | September 30, 2008 8:27 AM

It's getting old reading about how the current economy is totally the fault of Repubs. Simply untrue. Partially true, but as true that many Dems are at fault. Predatory lending started being pushed during Clinton's admin. Remember?

Even Obama has his ties to big oil and the silly "clean Coal" scam.

And it's not just the politicians who are responsible for the mess of course. Lenders are responsible and so are consumers. Lenders lent money they shouldn't have. People and businesses borrowed money they shouldn't have. The average American is living off of credit and this is ridiculous.

The plan that failed yesterday failed because it was a bad plan. Where was the limit on executive compensation the Dems promised? Wasn't there, another lie from politicians.

The House is out until Thursday and I bet the markets drop a little more, adjusting to market realities, and then stabilize. And hopefully we don't have to borrow another Trillion dollars to bail out crooks and the greedy public. We'll all pay a price either way.

In the meantime, Barney Frank and Nancy Peloci should get together and pass a real energy policy. They talk about this all the time and then do nothing. Increase fuel efficiency standards, take away the tax breaks and subsidies for oil and coal, invest in clean alternative fuels. Get out of Iraq, invest in infrastructure and education. Anything short of this is just more hot wind from the dems who control the House.

Posted by Meinert | September 30, 2008 8:27 AM

@1 The reason is because the GOP is just plain bad at running the economy and for the past two decades, they've convinced Americans that they're better at it. We have to make it clear that if you want to be able to afford a home, send your kids to college, and get out of debt, you vote Democrat.

Posted by Gitai | September 30, 2008 8:27 AM

Open your eyes: yes, both parties share in complicity. But Bush has been running this bus for EIGHT YEARS, and everybody but him could see that cliff approaching.

Bush DID, in fact, tell everybody to take out mortgages and credit card debt they couldn't afford; remember his response to 9/11 was "go shopping". Bush's approach, and the House Republicans approach as well, has always been utterly reckless and dismissive of serious thought. When the economy started to falter, his response was to throw 'em a few bucks of stimulus. Bush and the Republicans are PROFOUNDLY UNSERIOUS about governing, and about managing the economy.

This is absolutely because of their heedless subscription to economic theories that they haven't even bothered to try and understand fully. They just fit in so nicely with their entitled wealth that they have come to believe without thinking. "Government is the problem", they say, and so we get terrible government. "Let the markets decide", they say, so they don't even pay attention when the markets fail. "Regulation stifles freedom and growth", they say, even as our freedom disappears and our growth proves to be chimeric.

Now, of course, the tune has changed, as Bush's wealthy peer group has seen THEIR money disappear too, so all of a sudden it's time for government to make them whole again. Now, suddenly, welfare is what's good for America, as long as it goes to the right people. The House Republicans aren't buying it, but they're still buying the package of nonsense that got us into this mess.

Anyone who denies that this is a Republican catastrophe is deluded. But then, being deluded is central to the American experience these days. We're all blind, we're all full of shit, and we're all going to suffer -- except the Bushies, who will as always come out golden -- the same way they went in. Remember "he was born on third base, thinking he hit a triple"? Bush and his gang of robbers is coming home now. America's lost the game.

Obama? He's screwed. He's going to inherit an almost unfixable economy. And because his only tool is a classic Democratic congress, he's probably going to fail too. But at least he's thinking seriously about how to solve our problems. The Republicans aren't, and never have. The rich ones are only thinking about "where's my fucking bailout?" and the rank and file are only capable of thinking "yes, master, give me another".

Partisan? Yeah, sure. The Republican Party has been wholly subsumed in an ocean tide of evil and stupidity. They're drowning in it, and they're taking us all down with them. They deserve nothing better than to split and fail. I have ZERO sympathy for anyone left in that godforsaken shithole of a party. FUCK the Republicans, fuck them hard, fuck them forever. The worst Democrat in the world couldn't ruin this country worse than the best they have to offer.

Posted by Fnarf | September 30, 2008 8:29 AM

CUBS 2000: 65-97
CUBS 2008: 97-65

Posted by DOUG. | September 30, 2008 8:31 AM

Mike B @5:

Mr. Chicago Fan. It looks like you really think that a president has a lot of power to affect the economy. It just shows how little you understand about the role of the government and just in general economics.

This is like an arsonist saying he isn't responsible for the house burning down, because y'know he just started the fire, but as for the fire spreading after that--well, the fire was acting entirely on its own.

Here's a little counterpoint:
Regulator in Chief?

Posted by cressona | September 30, 2008 8:32 AM

Fuck you, too, Meinert, and your phony post-partisan, split-the-middle, all-sides-are-guilty bullshit.

The Democrats couldn't get anything done because of filibusters and vetos and just plain obstructionism. Unlike Newt Gingrich, they didn't force a government shutdown over it because (1) they have some sense of responsibility, and (2) the voters DON'T LIKE government shutdowns, which is why Newt Gingrich is not in Congress anymore.

The Republicans need to be voted out of office at every level of government. Then we'll start on the Dems who are the tools of big money. Does that sound like any Democrat *you* have endorsed, Meinert?

Posted by ivan | September 30, 2008 8:39 AM

Time to go with the Gingrich plan!

Posted by Mr. Poe | September 30, 2008 8:43 AM

We need more Milton Freidman style economic theories applied to our economy. HA HA HA HA HA !!!!!!!!!

Posted by Andrew | September 30, 2008 8:44 AM

Ivan, I'll excuse your idiocy for now. I'm not letting the Repubs off the hook. I think most of the Bush Admin should be in jail. My point is only that many Dems are at fault as well.

Yes, Bush pushed for bad loans to minorities and people who couldn't afford them. So did Obama via Acorn. As did many on both sides of the isle.

Right now your righteous Dem leadership is pushing for a BUSH solution! It's like they have the Congressional Dems have the battered wife syndrome. If they are going to pass a plan they should craft one of their own that makes sense, that doesn't bailout failed banks but instead rewards successful ones, that extends unemployment, etc, etc. There is no quick fix, and giving the Bush Whitehouse a trillion dollars is stupid let alone possibly unconstituional.

It's just tiring hearing the partisan arguments about who is at fault when both sides are. We are only going to be able to deal with this if we start getting real. Our economy is fucked for many reasons, and some of the solutions are going to be unpopular. Consumers are going to have to be told to stop living off of credit. Anyone who bought a house after 2005 is probably going to lose money on it unless they hang on to if for the next 10 years. Many people who are retired who invested in overvalued stocks may have to go back to work. Credit is going to tighten and many people making average incomes who don't have great credit are going to have to rent instead of own. This isn't going to be changed by partisan party political name calling.

Posted by Meinert | September 30, 2008 9:00 AM

To hop on Doug's line of thinking -

Mariners, 2001 - 116-46
Mariners, 2008 - 61-101

2001 - Seattle Supersonics
2008 - OKC Thunder

And let's not forget the Bush administration's terrible officiating in Super Bowl XL.

Posted by David | September 30, 2008 9:06 AM

To hop on Doug's line of thinking -

Mariners, 2001 - 116-46
Mariners, 2008 - 61-101

2001 - Seattle Supersonics
2008 - OKC Thunder

And let's not forget the Bush administration's terrible officiating in Super Bowl XL.

Posted by David | September 30, 2008 9:06 AM

Fact is, Meinert, that the Republicans aren't going to do jack shit about this except make it worse. All your rhetoric doesn't change that.

Posted by ivan | September 30, 2008 9:08 AM


You think we'll actually make it better? Ha. Ha.

Posted by Mr. Poe | September 30, 2008 9:20 AM

Hey Doug:

I almost brought up the fact that under the Bush Regime, the Cubs have gone to the post-season 3 times, which is more than in any single president's term since Roosevelt. But that might jinx 'em.


Posted by Chicago Fan | September 30, 2008 9:21 AM

Poe @ 18:

I don't use any definition of "we" that includes you.

But your comments are important to us, so please stay on the line so that we can serve you better. A customer care professional will be with you shortly. This comment may be monitored for quality assurance.

Posted by ivan | September 30, 2008 9:36 AM

That's right @7, and WHICH PARTY was in control of CONGRESS for SIX of the EIGHT YEARS of that administration?

And while we're at it, WHICH PARTY was in control of the Executive Branch in 1987 when the Presidentially-appointed Federal Reserve Board effectively repealed the Glass-Steagall Act, which had previously barred commercial banks from getting into the securities business in the first place?

Right-wing apologists trying to place blame for the current economic melt-down on Democrats is like the husband caught by his wife in bed with another woman insisting that she's seeing things that aren't there.

Posted by COMTE | September 30, 2008 9:38 AM

Great post by Fnarf @9. Few items I want to excerpt:

Open your eyes: yes, both parties share in complicity. But Bush has been running this bus for EIGHT YEARS, and everybody but him could see that cliff approaching.

There's a huge gap between saying the Republicans are 100% to blame for the current sorry state of our nation and saying the Republicans and Democrats are equally to blame. Obviously, the Dems are not blameless for all this, but they've been swimming against a tide of madness that began with the Reagan revolution. I'm not sure there's any political argument the Democrats could have made in recent decades that would have convinced the American people that this madness was indeed madness. So instead we got Clintonian triangulation, and we have had to let the madness run its course and work its way out of the system.

I can't help but wonder, though, what is the next cliff approaching? Boy, there's a whole bunch of 'em actually, starting with peak oil, of which we've gotten just the appetizer. Then there's Medicare and the baby boomers retiring. And our massive deficits and debt.

Anyone who denies that this is a Republican catastrophe is deluded. But then, being deluded is central to the American experience these days. We're all blind, we're all full of shit, and we're all going to suffer...

Posted by cressona | September 30, 2008 9:39 AM

@18, as this is a problem caused by both sides and many others, those same parties will have to work together to fix it. Don't look to a government bailout as the solution, that is only a short term psychological fix, and not worth anywhere near a trillion dollars. Keep in mind that the plan the Dems were trying to pass was a Republican plan, put forward by their pal George Bush.

Posted by Meinert | September 30, 2008 9:43 AM


So, you're here, solving everything, by being here? Oh wait did you actually have something to say? The Republicans need to be voted out of office at every level of government? Yeah. That'll happen. Brilliant solution!

Posted by Mr. Poe | September 30, 2008 9:50 AM

@25, it's a good place to start.

Posted by Fnarf | September 30, 2008 10:03 AM

I have to ask again: Is this a new Mr. Poe? He seems so much more shrill than I remember.

Posted by Dawgson | September 30, 2008 10:04 AM

Have fun with the logistical problems. While you're doing that, I'll start ending religion entirely.

We'll rendezvous in Pelosi's office when our missions are accomplished. Bring money.

Posted by Mr. Poe | September 30, 2008 10:11 AM
The average American is living off of credit and this is ridiculous.

Real wages have stagnated for ages and they've fallen under Bush & Co. Americans have to take on credit just to maintain their quality of life. Since economic growth is predicated on consumer spending, as long as people aren't earning more year after year, the only way our economy keeps going is if consumers take on debt.

Posted by keshmeshi | September 30, 2008 11:18 AM

A broader market index:

S&P 500 - January 19, 2001: 1354.95
S&P 500 - September 29, 2008: 1106.39

Posted by kk | September 30, 2008 11:25 AM

It stuns me that these points even need to be reiterated.

Bush Administration economic policies:

Spend recklessly to win votes (unfunded Medicare prescription benefit, farm subsidies).

Abandon budgetary requirement to balance new spending or tax cuts with revenues.

Debt finance an insanely expensive and unnecessary war.

Promote hiring of illegal workers to drive down wages.

Encourage vast majority of corporate profits to go to unregulated and undertaxed hedge funds.

Eviscerate worker rights.

Fail to invest in education and infrastructure.

Drive up the price of oil with military adventurism.

Destabilize the financial industry through profligate borrowing and deregulation.

Inflate health care costs by enriching Big Pharma.

There are many, many more, but you get the picture. The Bush Administration has been as much of a disaster for the economy as it has been for national security. You need only to compare it to the previous "grown up" administration, which balanced budgets and calmed the financial markets.

Posted by kk | September 30, 2008 11:40 AM

@29 nails it. Real wages for ordinary Americans -- people earning an hourly wage, not an annual salary -- have FALLEN over the last THIRTY-FIVE years. In the past decade, even salaried people have stagnated. All of that shiny GDP growth is taking place in the upper echelons of the economy.

Unfortunately, there are not enough jobs in the yacht-building and fur-making industries to meet the demand.

So most ordinary Americans HAVE to run credit bills they can't afford, just to stay where they were. The wealth of this country has been transferred to the richest of the rich, while everybody else is stuck in 1974.

Posted by Fnarf | September 30, 2008 11:41 AM

that doesn't mean it's not ridiculous.... especially when you consider the average american's definition of quality of life.

Posted by infrequent | September 30, 2008 12:49 PM

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