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Sunday, June 1, 2008

The Morning News

posted by on June 1 at 9:15 AM

posted by news intern Chris Kissel

Appeasement: Obama announces he’s leaving his church.

Catch and release: Israeli sets free Hezbollah spy after six-year detainment.

Dem deal
: DNC rules committee will give Florida and Michigan delegates half of a vote.

Swiss deal
: Swiss voters reject referendum to make citizenship even more difficult.

Runway mishap: Five dead in Honduras.

Universal Studios is on fire right now
: Literally.

Resegregated: Racial balance gone in Seattle Public Schools.

War stories: Veterans recall unethical actions in Iraq.

No more automatic citizenship: State GOP platform “not something that’s based on racial concerns.”

RSS icon Comments

1

It's about time the state GOP take on a strong position regarding automatic citizenship. It's amazing that we've gone this far with such a loophole in the system that allows the children of people who enter this country illegally to become citizens just because they're born on U.S. soil.

What makes the most sense? Giving automatic citizenship to the children of already-legal citizens. People talk about amending the Constitution for all types of bullshit (to ban flag burning, to make marriage only between a man and a woman, etc) when this seems like it should take priority over any of that other nonsense.

Let's hope we start seeing a growing respect for this approach nationwide...it's one of the first steps in ending our illegal immigration problem.

Posted by Seattle Crime Blogger | June 1, 2008 10:19 AM
2

1. "Appeasement"?

It's good politics to leave a church where people clap at attacks on white people generally. You can't win a presidential election with this kind of racist baggage.
2. Deal on FL and MI:
congrats to Obama team and FL and MI dem parties. Deal recognizes Hillary's basic point that these voters count. Thank you Hillary. Theey are imperfect compromises but that's life -- at least they reject the absurd position that millions of voters don't count, and help us on FL and MI in the Fall.

It's good for the Obama side to make a deal and put these issues 75% behind us.

I wouldn't be outraged at HRC "reserving" the right for a convention challenge on MI. She's just keeping her pojer chips instead of throwing them in. This kind of outrage is just silly -- demanding your opponent simply give up. Tacky, fruitless. She's already signalled she'll wind down the campaign this week.

Meanwhile, she wins the major point that she stood up for FL and MI (useful in all future elections, fundraising, etc.) and the bragging point that this "recognizing" FL and MI elections means you counttheir popular votes which adds credence to her position she has won more votes. While there are arguments both ways on this, it's not so silly now to count these elections if the rules nad bylaws committee just legitimated counting them for delegates. From real clear:
Popular Vote (w/ MI)**
17,267,658 47.5%
17,429,781 47.9%
Clinton +162,123 +0.4%

Estimate w/IA, NV, ME, WA*
17,601,742 47.6%
17,653,643 47.7%
Clinton +51,901 +0.1%

Obama ahead in popular vote only if you say MI doens't count for zip.

A nice feather in her cap and reminder the next time she runs for president should BHO lose it this time.

Making a deal is a good basis for building unity and making the next deals, whatever they are. There are reports in UK press from the Obama campaign they will offer her a cabinet post of health sec. or being in charge of the health care issue in the Senate. It's a start. The latter "offer" is sort of bogus though, as the regular committee chairs will assert control.

Also reports in UK of Biden for State, Edwards for AG.

3. Overall goals is winning in the fall which requires unifying our party and expanding the map.
Polls continue to show Obama is weak in key demographics and states.
See http://online.wsj.com/article/SB121219030144534313.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

"The latest state-by-state battleground polls ...verify Gallup's findings that Sen. Clinton is significantly stronger against Sen. McCain in the key states ...:

- Pennsylvania: Sen. Clinton leads McCain 50%-39%; Sen. Obama and Sen. McCain are effectively tied.[11 points diff!]

- Ohio: Sen. Clinton leads Sen. McCain 48%-41%, Sen. Obama is down 44%-40%. [11 points diff!]

- Florida: Sen. Clinton leads Sen. McCain 47%-41%; Sen. McCain leads Sen. Obama 50%-40%. (Sen. Clinton has a net advantage of 16 points!)[holy shit!]

- North Carolina: Despite a substantial primary victory, Sen. Obama is down 8% vs. Sen. McCain, (51%-43%), while Sen. Clinton leads by 6% (49%-43%). [WTF?? Kinda underscores the point that those "Racists" whites who voted for HRC in the Demo primary anre needed for victory in the fall and can help provide it]

- Nevada: Sen. Clinton up 5%, Sen. Obama down 6%. [yet another 11 points diff! This is not beans.]

...in Virginia, ...he is currently down in at least one recent, respected poll by a significant 9% margin one point greater than the 8% margin Sen. Clinton is behind Sen. McCain. [Again: HRC doing better than BHO in states like Va nad NC shows that to expand the map you need both on the ticket, duh.]"

I can't find the link to the poll I read that says Obama v. McCain in NC loses but Obama/Clinton v. McCain + Romney in NC wins by about four points.

Hmmmmmm.....unite, or divide, unite, or divide, unite or divide.....?

4. Richardson quote today to uncommitted supers -- to the effect of commit to Obama now, not after the magic number is reached, so you'll be "remembered"!

Nice to see Obama values ol' fashioned loyalty and backscratching, just like Cantwell and McDermott have done by sticking with the Clintons because of past help and favors.

Wonder how Richardson expects to be noticed and remembered for his switch in time? Hmmm he wasn't mentioned for any cabinet post.....

Posted by PC | June 1, 2008 10:20 AM
3

It's good politics to leave a church where people clap at attacks on white people generally. You can't win a presidential election with this kind of racist baggage.

...

Kinda underscores the point that those "Racists" whites who voted for HRC in the Demo primary anre needed for victory in the fall and can help provide it

Do you realize that you're a hypocrite when you write this garbage?

Posted by demo kid | June 1, 2008 11:11 AM
4

Fuck you, PC; fuck you hard. You are completely and utterly full of shit.

Your "popular vote" numbers are completely bogus -- completely DISHONEST. You KNOW your numbers are lies, but you keep at it.

How do you account for the several states -- INCLUDING WASHINGTON -- where there is no legitimate popular vote? You lie, that's how.

I didn't vote in our primary, and you know why? Because I already had my say at the caucus. The Washington beauty contest numbers MEAN NOTHING AND COUNT FOR NOTHING.

Similarly, Florida and Michigan voters stayed home in droves, because they were TOLD TO.

Nothing in this campaign so far has convinced me more thoroughly that Clinton and her supporters like you are GARBAGE -- anti-Democratic scum trying to steal an election that you believed was yours for the taking. The popular vote lie is the lowest piece of shit argument of the year.

It's time to GIVE UP, motherfucker. Your candidate has not only lost the nomination fight, she has trashed her lifetime of public service in the process. If she'd quit two months ago, or one month ago, she might have a role in the future of the Democratic Party. Now she does not. She's unfit to serve. If McCain wins this election, it will be 100% HER FAULT.

And it will be your fault too. Don't be surprised if you get spat on a few times in the coming years. You'll deserve it.

Seattle Crime Blogger, you're even worse trash.

Posted by Fnarf | June 1, 2008 11:26 AM
5

It's becoming painfully apparent that Hillary supporters are no longer thinking rationally.

Posted by Cale | June 1, 2008 12:27 PM
6

Terry McAuliffe is such an asshole. I'm listening to him moan about the Michigan decision and how "every vote should count" (except for those of Obama supporters in Michigan - of which we're supposed to believe there are exactly zero, based on the decision the Clinton team wanted.)

Posted by tsm | June 1, 2008 12:35 PM
7

@6: Not just that Obama voters shouldn't be counted, but that the "uncommitted" delegates could be scooped up by Clinton campaign after a full-court press.

In their scenario, I could think of no worse job than to be an "uncommitted delegate" from Michigan. I'd be hearing from the tools from the Clinton campaign every frackin' day.

Posted by demo kid | June 1, 2008 12:59 PM
8

#1, who said it was a loophole?

Posted by w7ngman | June 1, 2008 1:01 PM
9

It's not a loophole, it's one of the fundamental principles of this country.

Posted by Fnarf | June 1, 2008 1:02 PM
10

Thank you, Fnarf.

That position demonstrates the sheer hatefulness of the modern Republican Party. What a wonderful suggestion; deport adults who lived their entire lives in this country, know nothing other than this country, may not even speak their native language. And what happens to children? Do we let them stay until they turn 18, or do we deport them too? Do we go into public schools, round them up, and send them home? Do we afford them the luxury of sending them home with their parents or do we just not bother? What a load of fucking bullshit.

Posted by keshmeshi | June 1, 2008 1:08 PM
11

#2, "This kind of outrage is just silly -- demanding your opponent simply give up."

Suppose you're playing chess in a tournament, you're down in pieces, your opponent has a positional advantage, and you know if you carry on you won't even be able to squeak out a draw. Do you keep fighting, hoping maybe you'll pick off a few of your opponent's pieces and make yourself look better before the inevitable happens?

No. You fucking resign, because it's the right thing to do. It's a gentleman's game, just like politics. If you waste your opponent's time and mental energy in a tournament by carrying on and trying to take pawns in an obvious loss, you will rightfully be considered an idiot and an asshole.

Hillary is an idiot and an asshole.

"She's already signalled she'll wind down the campaign this week."

Gee, really? You mean, once there's nothing left to campaign for, she's going to stop campaigning? You don't say.

"it's not so silly now to count these elections if the rules nad bylaws committee just legitimated counting them for delegates"

No. It's silly, because the decision was silly. "Legitimizing" votes in a primary that a) wasn't supposed to count and where b) Obama wasn't on the ballot is merely controlling the damage caused by Hillary carrying on and on and encouraging her "disenfranchised" supporters (who disenfranchised themselves) to pass the buck. The primary was not legitimate by any stretch of the imagination, unless you're a Hillary supporter and you're suddenly a champion for "disenfranchised" voters (who, once again, disenfranchised themselves) once it's become politically beneficial to your candidate.

If you think Hillary was just looking out for those poor disenfranchised voters, and now that their "votes" "count", she's going to quit because her moral mission in life is complete, you really need to get a clue.

Next, your polls are complete trash. Poll respondents are a bunch of Harriet Christian-esque mother fuckers with landlines. Polls showed Kerry destroying Bush just weeks before the 2004 election. Your. Polls. Are. Bullshit.

"Nice to see Obama values ol' fashioned loyalty and backscratching"

Now Richardson speaks for Obama? You're nothing but a disingenuous speck of fecal matter.

Posted by w7ngman | June 1, 2008 1:29 PM
12

We can't allow a negro to become President. No matter what you say, Hillary is owed the nomination and we will do anything to ensure she takes her rightful place at the top of the ticket.

Posted by SusanUnPC | June 1, 2008 1:54 PM
13

@12.... You sound like an agent for the Republicans.

Posted by Desperation SUCKS! | June 1, 2008 2:48 PM
14

At first I thought that noquarterusa.net site SusanUnPC's name links to was a joke. A sort of a more FOX News-like The Onion perhaps. Nope. Apparently it's the crazy homepage of crazytown USA and Hillary is its mayor (mistress?). Seriously, WTF? Whether or not the comment above is a parody of that or not I can't tell. If not, thanks for showing your true colors and thanks for playing Biggots Want the Whitey 2008. Your complimentary ammunition is in the mail.

Posted by bearseatbeats | June 1, 2008 2:52 PM
15

Damn. Yeah, noquarterusa.net is even more out of touch than reclusiveleftist.com

Posted by w7ngman | June 1, 2008 3:21 PM
16

Fnarf @4, thanks for saying what has to be said.

I remember a commenter, McG, tried to make the claim Saturday that Florida Democrats were helpless bystanders when Florida decided to bump up their primary. And my first thought was, "Why do you (McG) spout what you yourself know is a verifiable lie?" I mean... What actually goes through your (McG's) head when you do that? How do you rationalize it?

The same goes for this canard about Hillary winning some mythical, manipulated popular vote. Hearing Harold Ickes this morning on "Meet the Press" was absolutely chilling, frightening, Orwellian, you name it. It was like I was listening to some kind of fascist.

You know, we think of politicians who can't keep track of what is the truth and what is a lie. But for Clinton and her supporters, it's like they can't keep track of what is just bullshit and what is an outright lie. They're so used to dishing out the BS, which they know they can get away with, that they end up giving themselves license to go down the slippery slope towards bald-faced lies.

If you BS people enough, it becomes natural for you to claim that you came under sniper fire in Bosnia and to then blame the lie afterwards on sleep deprivation.

It is within that murky moral area between bullshit and lies that the Bush administration was able to persuade this nation to invade another sovereign nation for reasons that had nothing to do with their true motives.

There is a darkness there in Harold Ickes and Mark Penn and Hillary Clinton not unlike the darkness there in Dick Cheney and Karl Rove and George W. Bush.

Posted by cressona | June 1, 2008 3:46 PM
17

Hey -- there's this island with a few million people on it? Called "Puerco Rico" or something??

Maybe you've heard about it??

They had some kind of election today? Well didn't see any mention in Slog, so hesitate to bring this up but.....

they had some kind of election today and just a few hundred thousand people voted and HRC got 68% while Obama got 32%.

Wow. Oh, yeah, forgot, that's not news because (a) these people are brown and they don't count, and (b) any information showing Obama is not transcendent and triumphant is verboten. Obviously this is totally insignificant and unworthy of comment or mention. It only shows, you know, that those people down there, they call them boricuanos or something, why they are a buncha racists ! Yeah, that's it. They're all beneficiaries of white privilege! So, we should ignore this.
Maybe Hillaria used her santeria skills or something, too.

Seriously, something's pretty unusual here when Barack's got it sewn up but loses 2:1. This one not boding well for him among latinos generally.

Also news: I think Hillary just said no matter whether they are a state or not, she favors giving them electoral college votes. That's a big change, if I got that right. If that's her position, good for her. That's expansion, inclusiveness, change and unity right there.

Ahorita debemos pensar en como se puede mejorar las posibilidades electorales de Obama en la comunidad latina en la lucha que acabara este noviembre. Hmmmmmmm ...como....? como....?
Quien le podria ayudar lo mas? Quien, quien quien? Posiblemente seria el ganador de PR, NM, AZ, NV, CA TX, FL, NJ todos los estados con los mas latinos, y PR? Tal vez? Posiblemente? Ya pienses?

Posted by CP | June 1, 2008 3:58 PM
18

If only there was a candidate who DIDN'T remind me of Karl Rove. Hmm.

Similarly, if only there was a way for the Democrats to tell who their nominee ought to be.

I'm thinking 2008 is going to essentially a referendum on reality. I'm not at all convinced that reality is going to win. It's possible that John McCain -- a candidate who openly admits he's going to carry on the policies of the least popular president in history -- is going to win. Thanks, Hillary.

Posted by Fnarf | June 1, 2008 4:01 PM
19

Lo siento, PC@17, but Puerto Rico doesn't get to vote in November. A nice symbolic gesture and all, but it does absolutely dick to affirm the notion that your beloved pantsuit Messiah is more electable in the general. I guess at least you spared us further cherry-picking of poll data in your usual dishonest fashion.

Posted by youknowitstrue | June 1, 2008 4:23 PM
20

"That position demonstrates the sheer hatefulness of the modern Republican Party. What a wonderful suggestion; deport adults who lived their entire lives in this country, know nothing other than this country, may not even speak their native language. And what happens to children? Do we let them stay until they turn 18, or do we deport them too? Do we go into public schools, round them up, and send them home? Do we afford them the luxury of sending them home with their parents or do we just not bother? What a load of fucking bullshit."

"Afford them the luxury?" Give me a break. Politics isn't about making people feel good; it's about running a country efficiently. You can appeal to emotion all you want, but when you stop thinking about the human side you'll be much better off. Political decisions should not be made with "sympathy" or "sensitivity" in mind. This isn't a fanatical approach or a hatred for Mexicans; it's common sense, and is the fabric on which national identity is based. And who said I'm a Republican? I'm a moderate conservative with Libertarian leanings.

Oh, and Fnarf...you've yet to make a coherent point, and argue more for ideals and less for reason. Typical left wing nonsense.

Posted by Seattle Crime Blogger | June 1, 2008 4:37 PM
21

Miami Herald - May 16, 2007 - B1

POLITICS: Early primary date makes minefield for Democrats, At the same time the state moves toward paper ballots to ensure fair elections, Democratic Party voters are facing another issue in the 2008 presidential primary.
Florida Democrats face another vote-counting quandary they can blame on Republicans: whether to stage their first presidential caucus in modern history. The caucus could lure primary candidates to the state and nurture Democratic grass-roots organizations and fundraising. But staging an alternative contest to the traditional primary could cost the party millions of dollars as well as its credibility, after years of vowing to make every vote count.

Posted by McG | June 1, 2008 4:54 PM
22

McG@21, you miserable hack, please answer this: how many Florida Democratic legislators voted in favor the bill that moved the primary? How many of them voted against it? Use Google all you like, and take your time.

Posted by tsm | June 1, 2008 5:02 PM
23

By ADAM C. SMITH
Published May 9, 2007

"The risk here is we put our Democratic candidates and our eventual nominee at a disadvantage in one of the most important states in the country, " said Democratic consultant Karl Koch of Tampa. "There's no good option, I just hope we keep our eye on the ball - which is November of '08."

Florida Democrats had no power to stop the early presidential primary date in the Republican-controlled Legislature and most supported the idea through most of the session.

Still, the Republican penalties for holding such an early primary are nowhere near as stiff as the Democratic penalties. Republican National Committee general chairman Mel Martinez, Florida's junior senator, has not voiced any complaint about Republican lawmakers violating RNC rules with an early presidential primary.

http://www.sptimes.com/2007/05/09/State/Dems__primary_may_not.shtml

Posted by McG | June 1, 2008 5:06 PM
24

McG: YOU ARE A LIAR.

Nothing of what you just posted is true.

The Republican penalty for bumping a primary up is exactly the same as the one the Democrats just imposed: half representation.

Florida Democrats could have held their primary any time they wanted to. And they did not oppose the Republican move.

Seriously, your credibility is nil. No matter how many times you repeat these arguments, which YOU KNOW YOURSELF TO BE FALSE, no one is ever going to believe you. I don't honestly understand how you can do it in good conscience.

I guess the answer is that you are a lying sack of dog vomit.

Posted by Fnarf | June 1, 2008 5:11 PM
25

I'll take your non-answer as an acknowledgement that your argument is unsupportable, McG.

Posted by tsm | June 1, 2008 5:14 PM
26

McG @23 quoting the St. Pete Times:

Florida Democrats had no power to stop the early presidential primary date in the Republican-controlled Legislature and most supported the idea through most of the session.

I guess by this same logic we can say, Hillary Clinton had no power to stop the Iraq invasion. Therefore we shouldn't blame her for supporting it.

McG, so in your own defense, you just confirmed that you were lying, unless you apply some strained, legalistic interpretation of what it means to oppose something. It's like "what the meaning of is is."

Again, I have to ask, why do you continue to put forward statements that you yourself know are verifiable lies?

Seriously, I'm curious. This is just a friggin' blog for God's sake. It's not "Meet the Press." You're not Harold Ickes.

Posted by cressona | June 1, 2008 5:20 PM
27
when you stop thinking about the human side you'll be much better off.
Oh, you slay me, libertarian tendencies.
t's common sense, and is the fabric on which national identity is based
Like all mom's-basement doughboy libertarians, you don't even know how to correctly use the emotive slogans you've heard your betters deploy. Fabric refers to what, exactly, here? Nothing, that's what, because your argument is pure flab. You don't know what you're talking about, literally.
Taken as a whole, Mexican immigrants to this country have contributed more than all of the libertarians ever. Migratory farm labor has been a mainstay of agriculture in the southwest for longer than the United States has existed, and today large parts of the country (including parts of Washington State) are absolutely dependent on the economic and cultural vitality of Mexican-Americans. Without that influx, we are dead as a nation. This nation was founded by immigrants, and built right across the continent by immigrants. There is nothing new or threatening about the most recent groups except in the 40-watt minds of pig-ignorant, blinkered, fearful nativists like you.
America is a different country than it was in 1920 -- a better, stronger, richer, freer country. Mexican-Americans are macking that happen; they are making the future happen. You're the past, boy, and you're not even the real past; you're an imaginary cartoon past. Your dream is dead. The rest of us are going to go to the future without you.
Enjoy the rest of your life in your basement with your police scanner, practicing your quick draw moves. God help you if you ever come outdoors.
Posted by Fnarf | June 1, 2008 5:23 PM
28

TSM - remember the choice votes the great Obama abstained on? Those vote were strategic,right. The Dems in Florida were in a situation that the Repubos were going to move the date up and if the Dems voted against it they would be painted as not standing up for the state. Obama abstains good, FL Dems vote strategically bad. More kool-aid please.

And as for doing the right thing and quitting - yeah politics is just like chess and golf, not - how about that Obama disqualifying his first Democratic opponents on technicalities? Oh that's different cause that's just Chicago politics. When he knocked Alice off the ballot that's smart but when HRC leaves her name on the ballot in MI that's disgusting old style cheating politics, right?

http://edition.cnn.com/2008/POLITICS/05/29/obamas.first.campaign/index.html

Hey some people didn't sign right, some signature gatherers weren't properly licensed, some printed where they should have written - sounds pretty Republican way of winning an election.

Obama and his main man Axelrod (Daley's and Exelon's consultant) ran a great campaign and are the same old style pols you all hate.

Posted by McG | June 1, 2008 5:32 PM
29

I think Fnarf just hit the nail on the head @18:

I'm thinking 2008 is going to essentially a referendum on reality. I'm not at all convinced that reality is going to win. It's possible that John McCain -- a candidate who openly admits he's going to carry on the policies of the least popular president in history -- is going to win. Thanks, Hillary.

That phrase, "referendum on reality," really captures things. And "I'm not at all convinced that reality is going to win" -- that's just how I'm feeling.

On Friday, the polling firm Rasmussen Reports came out with a report McCain Trusted More Than Obama on Economy, Iraq, National Security. See for yourself that headline is not a misprint.

So let me get this straight.

The American people have overwhelmingly come to the conclusion that George W. Bush has been a disaster on the economy and Iraq. And I don't think there's all that much happiness with his job on national security either. And on what three major issues is John McCain totally on the same page with George W. Bush? Yes, the economy, Iraq, and national security? And yet Americans trust McCain more than Obama on these issues?!

You almost need a Sigmund Freud to explain this.

I'm looking forward to the day McCain makes the campaign promise that he will send every working family's first born off to fight an endless war in the Middle East. Then one week later a national poll will find that the majority of working families trust McCain more to take care of their first born.

I still think Obama's going to win this thing, but he's got to run a hell of a campaign if he's going to.

Posted by cressona | June 1, 2008 5:35 PM
30

@4, Oh Fnarf, just relax, remember God loves you

WHEN McCain wins it will be just as much the fault of people like you as Sen. Clinton, Obama seems like a nice enough guy, and I have always voted Democrat, but with hate filled people like you going off on your rants, I really feel safer with McCain, not that it will matter in WA, pretty near certain the state will remain "blue" but keep trying, you might convince a few more people like me.

And @18 if only there were a candidate who's SUPPORTERS didn't remind me of Hitler (Godwin's Law strikes again!)


Bureau of Intellectual Titans Crushing Hypocrisy

Posted by Epimetheus | June 1, 2008 5:41 PM
31

Fnarf - the Repubos didn't ban campaigning in FL and immediately gave them half delegates. Also, that was a quote from the paper linked so what did I lie about? You're an idiot - about the only thing WIS is right about.

Cressona - sorry don't keep a file but remembered the set-up for last May, so that was the first article I could find. Even if the Dems had been leaders in moving the date up, why would you as an Obama supporter want to blame the Dem voters that came out? What is Obama going to do with you idiots?

Posted by McG | June 1, 2008 5:43 PM
32

Epimetheus @30, I agree. Spiting blog commenters should always be the #1 criterion when choosing the leader on the free world.

Posted by cressona | June 1, 2008 5:49 PM
33

this is why i absolutely LOFF fnarf! and cute lil tsm, too. please, boys, come to slog happy hour so we can rake seattle crime blogger and mcg over the coals. and dance the cha cha, too.

Posted by scary tyler moore | June 1, 2008 5:58 PM
34
The Dems in Florida were in a situation that the Repubos were going to move the date up and if the Dems voted against it they would be painted as not standing up for the state.

That's the saddest attempt at spin I've seen in a while. Really. Especially since the DNC spoke to Florida Democrats repeatedly to try to resolve the issue with no success, and the state Democratic executive committee voted overwhelmingly to stand by the new primary date rather than accepting alternative solutions. Strategic! Yep.

Give it up already, McG. You're not cut out for this.

Posted by tsm | June 1, 2008 6:01 PM
35

Heh, I'll try to make an appearance, Scary. And dancing the cha-cha is possible, but the oil wrestling may have to wait.

Posted by tsm | June 1, 2008 6:06 PM
36

tsm - the STATE Dems want to win in the STATE - if they could be painted by the State Repubos as not standing up that would make their case more difficult. Regardless the vast majority of Dems in FL didn't have anything to do with the date, why wouldn't you want to franchise them. Obama's got it in the bag so what's your problem? You're an idiot.

What in hell is the point of bashing the FL Dems? How does this help Obama win in Nov.?
Taking FL out of play is like playing chess without a knight - that's the piece that looks like a horsie.

Why again were Obama's abstentions on choice OK? You're a joke.

Posted by McG | June 1, 2008 6:18 PM
37
Obama's got it in the bag

That's the only thing you've ever said on this blog that bears any resemblance to reality.

Posted by tsm | June 1, 2008 6:22 PM
38

@20,

This isn't a fanatical approach or a hatred for Mexicans...

Bullshit. You are a liar. And what Fnarf said.

Posted by keshmeshi | June 1, 2008 6:33 PM
39

tsm - I've been giving the big O the victory for weeks. Maybe you should switch Kool-Aid flavors. UnPC, PC, et al. have been talking about HRC for veep for weeks. You Obamas are so full of hate you can't read or understand.

Obama will win the nomination unless something else comes out. If he gets the nom, he will need HRC supporters, which I'm not*, so why are you all so stupidly angry and hateful to her supporters or anyone that isn't on the juice?

* won a bet placed a year ago that she would lose.

Posted by McG | June 1, 2008 6:50 PM
40

@33 Teach me to cha-cha, pretty please.

Posted by PopTart | June 1, 2008 7:38 PM
41

Fnarf & Keshmeshi, et. al...

Thanks for speaking plainly about the bullshit that is the Clinton campaign and her supporters on this thread. I've been in a funk all weekend following the performance by Harold Ickes and the Clinton supporters; watching Ickes on MTP this morning, and hearing the Clinton campaign spin the lie of her lead in the popular vote has me seriously wondering if there's any sanity, anywhere, left in this world.

Seeing this all happen in my party has been too much this weekend.

Posted by Timothy | June 1, 2008 8:42 PM
42

#36
Obama's "present" votes regarding choice issues were done with the consent and encouragement of Illinois Planned Parenthood and NARAL. PP and NARAL were encouraging many new pro-choice legislators to abstain from these votes so that the Republicans couldn't use them as ammunition in upcoming elections. It was an attempt to preserve as many PRO-CHOICE candidates aws possible.
I've worked for Planned Parenthood for five years. We are all familiar with these tactics used by Republicans, and we know Obama is pro-choice. Unfortunately, the Clinton campaign chose to spin the truth, which may end up costing a genuinely pro-choice candidate votes. Shame on them.

Posted by Tania | June 1, 2008 8:48 PM
43

tania - Obama's seat was not at risk but that wasn't the point.

The point was that just as O voted in a strategic manner on the choice issue Democrats in Florida also strategically voted on the primary date issue.

Perhaps since you worked for PP, you can explain why Obama from a totally progressive district would not vote yes on a choice issue.

Posted by McG | June 1, 2008 9:00 PM
44

You KNOW why, asshole.

Posted by Fnarf | June 1, 2008 9:13 PM
45
the STATE Dems want to win in the STATE - if they could be painted by the State Repubos as not standing up that would make their case more difficult

So the proper response for Florida voters is to blame the DNC for their representatives' "strategic" vote and get all upright when they don't let them break the rules?

The proper response is to accept the fact that they don't get any delegates, and vote the idiots out of the legislature in the next primary. They have absolutely no recourse against the DNC. Period. They're mad because they voted a bunch of spineless people into office and they decide they need to blame anyone but themselves. This is how we get people like unPC making the leap and claiming that Obama is disenfranchising them by supporting the DNC's rules. The only people doing the disenfranchising are the Florida legislature and, by extension, the Florida electorate.

Posted by w7ngman | June 1, 2008 9:34 PM
46


Fuckity fuck fuck eat an asshole blow a dick of your choice look what Dan Savage, America's favorite cocksucker (can't join the ARMY) wrote back in October 2002:

"In the meantime, invading and rebuilding Iraq will not only free the Iraqi people, it will also make the Saudis aware of the consequences they face if they continue to oppress their own people while exporting terrorism and terrorists. The War on Iraq will make it clear to our friends and enemies in the Middle East (and elsewhere) that we mean business: Free your people, reform your societies, liberalize, and democratize... or we're going to come over there, remove you from power, free your people, and reform your societies for ourselves."

ps Fnarf-don't you have a fucking life? Everytime I drop by here for a little danthewarmonger spamming to let his fans know what a deplorable war supporting asshole he is, you are in the thread. Somebody please! Invite Fnarf over for a blow job. Gomez? Mr Poe?

Posted by Fartin Gomez | June 1, 2008 9:50 PM
47

First I'm a Clinton supporter but I'll vote for Obama anyway. I just have a few points -
1. Many Clinton supporters feel that Clinton has won more states lately but not more super delegates have supported her. Now true her margin to overtake Obama is small but the perception is that most have written Clinton off and she was not given a fighting chance.
2. Clinton has more support among Hispanics. You'd be surprised how many racist Hispanics there are who don't like black. They might support McCain b/c at least McCain supports path to citizenship for illegal immigrants.
3. Obama has not finished his first term senate and regardless how you spin it he'll be perceived as inexperienced. Come November I believe the decisive voting bloc would be the older voters (and they always vote!) and they might not be as enthusiastic toward Obama as they would toward McCain.
Getting Clinton off is not gonna make Obama's weakness go away. I hope he makes it. I really do.

Posted by hillary2012 | June 1, 2008 10:26 PM
48

How anyone could be "enthusiastic" for McCain is beyond me. His own party isn't even enthusiastic, let alone independents.

Posted by w7ngman | June 1, 2008 10:34 PM
49

"His own party isn't even enthusiastic, let alone independents."
The right wing/nut part of the republican is not. The moderates and independents (esp. in NH) put McCain ahead don't forget. I am not bashing Obama just being realistic. What can O do to lure more independents to him.. I think O has to move to the center more or he'll be perceived as too liberal.

Posted by hillary2012 | June 1, 2008 10:42 PM
50

Can't we all just get along?

That said, I'm glad Michigan and Florida got their just punishment and have only as many votes as US citizens on Guam.

Don't do the crime if you can't do the time.

Keep your eyes on the sparrow!

Posted by Will in Seattle | June 1, 2008 11:33 PM
51

maybe the whole dem race is a dog and pony show to keep us off guard while they finish up the KBR reeducation camps that have been built nationwide and set up the october surprise, whatever that might be. can mccain "pick" cheney as his vice? just wondering.

Posted by skye | June 2, 2008 3:47 AM
52

"Getting Clinton off is not gonna make Obama's weakness go away. I hope he makes it. I really do."
Odrama doesn't need your vote according to his supporters. Gee Odrama is such a strong candidate how come he couldn't finish Clinton off ? Clinton is too divisive so he won't consider her as VP and yet he wants your vote. There won't be any party unity and America deserves to get destroyed by GOP.

Posted by Odrama | June 2, 2008 6:47 AM
53

Obama's views expressed over the weekend:

Clinton = "a great asset."
(Obama, in Mitchell, SD).

Plfeger = "repulsive"
(Axelrod, on MSNBC).

Trinity UCC = um, "Left Behind"!!

Thankfully, he's not listening to his supporters who denounce Clinton and praise TUCC, Wright, Pfleger, etc.

This man wants to win. Good.

Unity, y'all.

Posted by PC | June 2, 2008 7:56 AM
54

Clinton = "a great asset."
Yet she probably won't be his VP nod as many of his supporters are hating her so much. The pundits also said having Clinton as VP counters his "change of politics" crap. That's how he's gonna show unity?

Posted by Odrama | June 2, 2008 8:13 AM
55
So the proper response for Florida voters is to blame the DNC for their representatives' "strategic" vote and get all upright when they don't let them break the rules?

OK Wingnut - The discussion was about how the early primary date occurred and to what extent the Dems in FL were responsible. I contend that the Repubos led the charge and had the votes since they control both houses and the governor's office. This was sold as a way to make FL more relevant and the Dems either supported moving up or felt their no vote would be used against them. The DNC suggested a later caucus that the state Dems would have to pay for. The state Dems didn't want to risk a first ever caucus and the potential fiasco nor did they want to risk spending millions on a process that at the time seemed likely would occur after the nominee had been picked. I don't believe that the DNC offered to pay for this later event.

The repubos let their candidates campaign in FL and set the half standard from the beginning. The Dems have put themselves at a disadvantage and the move on Saturday helped right the ship. Since the only way Clinton can win this is for the supers to come over, the few delegate difference in FL by giving full seating would seem to have been a better move for O.

Obama can't afford to throw away large segments of the population or states. The comments made by Obamas will affect the election even if just marginally.

And wingnut - the polls are early and clearly will change but in the recent polls in many cases HRC did better than predicted (WV, KY, PR) worse in NC. Certainly the polling hasn't been consistently low for O which would follow from your thesis on landlines.

O will probably not win in the landslide you all seem to expect. It might be time for you Obamas to make peace will as many groups as possible.

Posted by McG | June 2, 2008 8:48 AM
56

@46 - Hey Fartin, I think that blow job is fully up to you buddy.

Posted by Dead Reagan | June 2, 2008 10:05 AM
57

Hillary deserves this. She's been in the trenches for womyn since 1970. It's all a racket, what's the problem with her taking part in the racket?

Just because she doesn't have a dick doesn't mean she can't contribute, you dicks. You ran that fake black man as an insult to her. To show that womyn are lower than blacks. Well fuck you! If it can't be Hillary, it will be McCain. So be it. There's nothing this paternal bullshit establishment can't throw at me that they've already thrown.

The society must be torn down and rebuilt into a society where the womyn is given the respect s*e deserves.

Posted by Angry Dkye Bitch | June 2, 2008 6:28 PM

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