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Tuesday, May 20, 2008

Clinton Wins Kentucky; Obama Wins Oregon and Claims a Majority of Delegates

posted by on May 20 at 19:50 PM

Thus sayeth the exit polls.

More from ABC:

Nearly half of Kentucky Democratic voters say they would not support him in a November election against John McCain, similar to the result in West Virginia.

And here are the clickable exits, courtesy of CNN. Read ‘em and weep/cheer.

Clinton is set to speak at 5:30 p.m. and results from Oregon are expected to come in at 8 p.m.

5:10 p.m. Clinton is speaking now in Louisville, and you can watch it here.

5:30 p.m. Well, the Clinton speech was very similar to the one she gave after her victory in West Virginia. She began, however, with some kind words about Senator Ted Kennedy:

He’s been with us for our fights, and we’re with him now in his.

And she gave no sign of dropping out any time soon. She even seemed to suggest that she might not drop out after the last primary on June 3 if the question of what to do about Florida and Michigan isn’t resolved by then.

“I’m more determined than ever to see that every vote is cast and every ballot is counted,” she said. “After all this country has been through these past seven years, we have to get this right. We have to select a nominee who is best positioned to win in November.”

She also promised to campaign for the Democratic nominee no matter what, and to help the party come together. But, in case anyone had missed it, she reiterated her plan to fight on:

This continues to be a tough fight, and I have fought it the only way I know how. With determination, and by never giving up and never giving in… I’m going to keep making our case until we have a nominee, whoever she may be.

5:40 Meanwhile, the Obama campaign just announced that it raised more than $31 million last month. The average contribution was $91 and more than 200,000 new donors were added.

6:00 Clinton’s lead in Kentucky, by the way, has her about 35 points ahead of Obama.

7:50 I left and went to Town Hall for a reception with Arianna Huffington, thinking that if I returned to my computer by 8 p.m. I wouldn’t miss anything. Looks like I missed Obama’s speech in Iowa—delivered before the polls were closed in Oregon?!?

In any case:

Many of you have been disappointed by politics and politicians more times than you can count. You’ve seen promises broken and good ideas drown in the sea of influence, and point-scoring, and petty bickering that has consumed Washington. And you’ve been told over and over and over again to be cynical, and doubtful, and even fearful about the possibility that things can ever be different.

And yet, in spite of all the doubt and disappointment – or perhaps because of it – you came out on a cold winter’s night in numbers that this country has never seen, and you stood for change. And because you did, a few more stood up. And then a few thousand stood up. And then a few million stood up. And tonight, in the fullness of spring, with the help of those who stood up from Portland to Louisville, we have returned to Iowa with a majority of delegates elected by the American people, and you have put us within reach of the Democratic nomination for President of the United States.

The road here has been long, and that is partly because we’ve traveled it with one of the most formidable candidates to ever run for this office. In her thirty-five years of public service, Senator Hillary Rodham Clinton has never given up on her fight for the American people, and tonight I congratulate her on her victory in Kentucky. We have had our disagreements during this campaign, but we all admire her courage, her commitment and her perseverance. No matter how this primary ends, Senator Clinton has shattered myths and broken barriers and changed the America in which my daughters and yours will come of age.

Some may see the millions upon millions of votes cast for each of us as evidence that our party is divided, but I see it as proof that we have never been more energized and united in our desire to take this country in a new direction. More than anything, we need this unity and this energy in the months to come, because while our primary has been long and hard-fought, the hardest and most important part of our journey still lies ahead.

8:05 p.m. Oregon is called for Obama just after the polls close. While you’re waiting for the finally tally, read his speech from Iowa earlier this evening. It’s excerpted above, but read the whole thing—it provides another example of the power of his oratory (and of his mind-meld with his speech writers), and it also sets up his frame for the general election. Which is the same frame he’s used to great effect so far: change versus more of the same.

8:20 p.m. Or, watch the speech instead of reading it:

8:30 p.m. And, for the sake of fairness (and a point of contrast), here’s Clinton’s speech tonight in Kentucky:

RSS icon Comments


What is WITH these fucking people?

Posted by heywhatsit | May 20, 2008 4:16 PM

It's what we call "white hard-working Americans".

Which is MSM code for racist whites.

Still stuck in the 18th century.

Thanks a LOT, Hils!

Posted by Will in Seattle | May 20, 2008 4:19 PM

Kentucky has gone Republican in five of the last seven elections.

Posted by NapoleonXIV | May 20, 2008 4:22 PM

well.. maybe that cross in that ad wasn't big enough. or maybe it should've been on fire..

Posted by reverend dr dj riz | May 20, 2008 4:23 PM

Obama should have run this endorsement video in Kentucky:

Posted by JC | May 20, 2008 4:25 PM

Wow, we really want states like this leading the country!

Hey, let's just throw out all of our hopes and values, because voting against our own interests is better than a Ni**er President!

Posted by wisepunk | May 20, 2008 4:33 PM

weep over how the clintons try to spin this latest event.

Posted by Jiberish | May 20, 2008 4:34 PM

@3 - Yeah like Will said, "white racists."

Posted by Sad Comment | May 20, 2008 4:38 PM

For fuck's sake, is it possible that not everyone thinks that Obama has a mandate from God and Oprah to be the next President? Just because someone doesn't vote for him doesn't mean that they are racist, or hicks, or stealth Republicans trying to screw the system. Just like all the people who vote for Obama aren't smug latte sippin' elitists.

Posted by PopTart | May 20, 2008 4:52 PM

"Nearly half of Kentucky Democratic voters say they would not support him in a November election against John McCain..."

That is exactly why McCain will win Kentucky in November, regardless of whether Hillary or Obama had won there today. Kentucky is a deeply red state. A hollow victory for Hillary at best; she won a state that neither of them have any chance of winning in the general election.

Posted by Reverse Polarity | May 20, 2008 4:53 PM

Gee go ahead label all white clinton supporters racists. Can I call all black Obama racists then ? What about people from other states where Clinton have won? Go ahead and mock clinton supporters b/c you all just give McCain the victory come November.

Posted by kitna | May 20, 2008 4:55 PM

@9 I don't doubt that people can have a difference of opinion and choose one candidate over another, but just because some folks can have a difference of opinion doesn't mean others aren't racist.

Must be a tough choice for some of the good ole boys. Should Clinton be in the kitchen or should Obama mind his place?

Posted by In MN | May 20, 2008 4:59 PM

Personally, I think everyone east of Lake Washington is a hick rube straight out of Deliverance. Don't you always hear that banjo music every time you have to cross the bridge? I do.

Not that I'm too fond of people on this side of the lake.

Posted by elenchos | May 20, 2008 5:00 PM


Of course there are people who can be against Obama for reasons other than his pigmentation. The odds that these principled opponents live in Kentucky and West Virginia are vanishingly small, however.

Posted by AMB | May 20, 2008 5:03 PM

@11- Um, I'm from Kentucky, and unfortunately in this case the stereotype is true: racism is the major factor in the vote there. We're not saying that's the case with every Clinton supporter everywhere, but racism runs deep in Appalachia and it's unfortunate for Clinton that the areas where her support is strongest happen to coincide with deep racist sentiments and history.

Posted by David | May 20, 2008 5:04 PM

Gee, I guess this makes me an un-educated racist since I don't agree with/support Obama...I didn't think I was but those on SLOG say I am.

Posted by notonthehill | May 20, 2008 5:04 PM

I hate looking at exit polls.

On the bottom of the very first page:
In a Clinton/McCain matchup for the general, 17% would vote McCain. Of those 17%, 53% voted for Clinton. That's over 9% of her votes in the primary that wouldn't choose her in the general.

We've been seeing this in exits since Texas/Ohio.

Also, kitna, we've already addressed this once today. Black supporters of Obama are not racist, and white supporters of Clinton are not racist. It's the supporters of Clinton who would not vote for Obama under any circumstances, even in the general against McCain, whom we are positing are mostly racist.

Posted by V | May 20, 2008 5:08 PM

So, to sum it up, Hils got the white racists of a deeply pro-GWB state to vote for her.

Um. So.

Like they were going to go Clinton if it was Clinton - McCain ... probably not many of them, except for a few of the women.

Posted by Will in Seattle | May 20, 2008 5:09 PM

@13 Yeah, the inbreeding in Redmond is pretty horrific. Watch out though, cause we're bitter and we cling to our guns so you'd better keep your skinny ass on the other side of the bridge if you know what's good for you...

Posted by PopTart | May 20, 2008 5:16 PM

i'm just afraid of the media backwash. are the same people who literally 2 weeks ago called for clinton to bow out, now going to anounce her as the comeback kid?

this is the thing that scares me. the media is chasing its tail like a dumb dog and joe viewer has to sit around listening to its deafening howl.

what is the prognosis going to be tomorrow? a week ago i was really looking forward to today, now i'm not so sure. the ted kennedy news didn't help.

Posted by nadia | May 20, 2008 5:16 PM

Hasn't she dropped out yet??? SHE NEEDS TO DROP OUT!!!

OBAMA! Oh-eight. Preordained. Hope!!! Audacity!!! Audio City!!! Audrey Hepburn!!! Auburn V-12!!!

She needs to drop out!!! NOW!!!


Whew. I just channeled half of Slog...something's fucked up in the plasmosphere today...

Posted by Jubilation T. Cornball | May 20, 2008 5:17 PM

Dear Obamaniacs,

You're a cult.

1) Nothing the Great Leader and the Great Leader's Wife do is to be in any way challenged.

2) Anyone who dares challenge the Great Leader's qualifications needs to be IMMEDIATELY labeled stupid, racist and a neanderthal.

I hope you have your anti-depressant prescriptions up-to-date for the night of the general election, when George McGo... I mean, of course, Mr. Obama, loses in a landslide that'll have the entirity of Capitol Hill in collective shock.

Posted by Mr. Astonished | May 20, 2008 5:25 PM

Come to think of it, I don't have much in common with those people south of the Duwamish River either. It's all guns and church and polygamy and stuff down there. Or so I've heard.

And actually, it's kind of sketchy south of the Ship Canal, truth be told, but I go that way sometimes. For the ethnic food and the colorful types you find there. They hug a lot there and have big families and stuff. It's quaint but I think sometimes they get riled up by simplistic rhetoric down there.

Posted by elenchos | May 20, 2008 5:26 PM

The guy behind hillary just peed himself.

Posted by Alan | May 20, 2008 5:28 PM

I support Obama, but I still find the characterization of KY/WV voters as hicks for voting Clinton kind of annoying.

Unfortunately, then I see the news and hear KY/WV voters talking about how they couldn't possibly vote for a Muslim, or "someone of that, y'know, race".

Posted by tsm | May 20, 2008 5:37 PM

She wants to count the vote....Obligatory Stranger Link:

Stop the cheating.

Posted by Cato | May 20, 2008 5:38 PM

I wonder how many of the people who say they'll vote for Hillary but not Obama would not have voted for Hillary in the general election anyway. It seems like all the Republicans have to do is hit her with vicious sexist attacks, painting her as a weak woman who can't possibly be strong on foreign policy or national defense, and all those hard-working Americans, white Americans will cave and vote for McCain after all.

Posted by keshmeshi | May 20, 2008 5:39 PM

Jesus Christ, people, at least LOOK at the exit polls before you start shrieking about how racist the entire white population of an entire state is. I wouldn't expect any of you to ever VISIT the South, of course, but at least look at the reasons people gave for voting the way they did before dismissing every person who supports Hillary as a stupid hick. Did some people vote for Hillary because she's white? Sure--in fact, 19 percent of whites said race was somewhat or very important, and 86 percent of those went for Clinton. But what the vast majority of voters cited were economic issues, not racial ones--people there were hit hard by the economic downturn, and clearly, Hillary appeals to them on economic terms.

As for the "dumb, ignorant rural yokels" stereotype--well, 63 percent of Kentuckians who voted in this primary went to college. Just because they didn't choose to move to the West Coast doesn't make them idiots, or yokels, or racist. I would love to see some Obama fans make the point that racism exists and influences SOME people's votes without painting every Clinton supporter in every state that isn't primarily urban as a card-carrying member of the KKK.

Posted by ECB | May 20, 2008 5:44 PM

More exit poll headdesking.

On page 4: Was race of candidate important to you? 21% admit, yes. Of those, 81% voted for Clinton.

So I'm not saying that all voters in Kentucky are racist. Kentucky is a pretty nice place and I've never met a mean person from there.

But 17% of voters in the exit poll sample voted for Clinton at least partly because she is white. That's just an observation. She has many other merits.

Posted by V | May 20, 2008 5:44 PM

Interesting. I posted that comment at the exact same time as ECB's: 5:44 PM.

Glad we agree!

Posted by V | May 20, 2008 5:55 PM

Well Hillary isn't buying your exit polls, any more than she believes your elitist economists. Racism wasn't a factor in this campaign; only sexism.

Posted by elenchos | May 20, 2008 5:58 PM

Congratulations to Senator Clinton and her campaign.

Posted by Bub | May 20, 2008 6:14 PM

This is what I am trying to understand. this is the democratic primary. You know, democrats, liberals, people on the left, going to the polls to vote for who they think should be the party nominee. Important stuff.

So why would any democrat go against the party and vote for John McCain if their candidate wasn't the winner in the primary. When one in five in the state say that race was a factor in voting for Hils (not sure if that metric is correct) I would call those people racists. Same goes for Obama supporters (sexism) who would never vote for hillary, if they had one in five who said sex was a factor.

Sorry, I'm venting a little. I'm tired of party membs who don't really belong in the party. And if America votes in McCain because of racial backlash of white voters than this country will live with another 4 years of this depressing bullshit conservative agenda. I don't want that, and I am pretty sure that you don't either.

I didn't get behind Obama because of his record, his race, his education, or his looks. I got behind him because he inspires me, and that is what the leader of the free world is supposed to do.

Posted by wisepunk | May 20, 2008 6:19 PM

She is in the race for one of two things: either she is pushing to be the V-P or she is laying the ground work for an independent run for the White House.

Pray she wants to be the VP....if she runs on her own McCain is the next President.

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | May 20, 2008 6:19 PM

Um, ECB, I was born further south in Texas than you were.

And I've been to every state other than Alaska.

Look, I didn't say "deeply" racist, and I'm sure for many it's not that conscious, but if we look at a substantial segment of those who voted for Hils tonite ... well, let's just say they probably aren't "comfortable" with a non-white President.

Posted by Will in Seattle | May 20, 2008 6:24 PM

ECB: Well obviously some racists aren't going to admit in an exit poll that they think Obama is a dirty black man. You know that.

Racism runs deep in those parts. Saying "Hillary appeals to them on economic terms" is masking much of the racial issues that apparently the media doesn't really want to talk about.

Posted by stinkbug | May 20, 2008 6:31 PM

2 out of every 10 people admitted that race played a factor. How many for whom it played a factor didn't feel like admitting it to their exit pollster, even in KY?

20% of the voters, who likely did 20% of the ground campaign, made 20% of the phone calls. Do you think they're off in their own little world, or do you reckon they have families and impressionable children and co-workers and congregations like non-racists?

So how racist is too racist? How about McCain wanting to wipe the Middle East off the map? Or is that just still about oil and "the economy" to the voters of Kentucky and West Virginia?

Posted by Ziggity | May 20, 2008 6:33 PM

I see Hillary is still lying that she's ahead in the "popular vote".

Just one more reason why I would never support her in the general -- her casual willingness to blatantly lie to your face. Already had eight years of that shit kthnxbye.

Of course, Sara, ECB, unPC, McG, Ferraro et al will claim that to bring this up just proves how sexist I am and how I must hate strong women. Because, according to them, only pathological liars riding their husband's coattails to office are capable of being "strong" and "tough".

Posted by ru shur | May 20, 2008 6:34 PM

And in other news, CNN is calling the pledged delegate majority for Obama. Hillary cannot win unless she gets ALL of the remaining superdelegates. Which is going to be difficult, because she's not going to get ANY of them -- in fact, she's going to end up with far fewer than she has now.

Posted by Fnarf | May 20, 2008 6:38 PM

here's what else I hated about her speech tonight:

first she had a jab or two against Bush, which is fine. But then she went on to squeal:

"Now, it's especially sweet tonight because Kentucky has a knack for picking presidents....(APPLAUSE)...This state delivered two terms to a president named Clinton...(APPLAUSE)...And it's often been said, as Kentucky goes, so goes the nation....(APPLAUSE)"

So people there were basically cheering that KY went for Bush in '00 and '04?

Posted by stinkbug | May 20, 2008 6:43 PM

Clicking on JC's link @ 5 led me to this little nugget, which I hadn't seen yet and thought was Hilarious!!!

Posted by Clint | May 20, 2008 7:34 PM

Didn't Obama claim he can get her voters but she can't get his? How come he didn't get flack for that but when Clinton merely pointed out she would do well w/ white working class voters she got shit storm for it. I'm an educated asian woman and I am not gonna vote for him for his condescension.

Posted by angryaznchick | May 20, 2008 7:38 PM

@42 - vote for mccain then. have fun trying to sleep at night.

Posted by skye | May 20, 2008 8:03 PM

No way I'll vote for McCain. I'll just vote for libertarian.

Posted by angryaznchick | May 20, 2008 8:11 PM

@44 - same thing.

Posted by skye | May 20, 2008 8:15 PM

angryaznchick, can you site a source for that BO quote (that you think he may or may not have said)?

Posted by stinkbug | May 20, 2008 8:25 PM


The reason she can't get Obama's voters is that she came in second. She lost. Had she won, it would have been different. That's the answer to your question.

Posted by elenchos | May 20, 2008 8:26 PM

many asians also don't like black people, so there ya go. you could easily be voting against a black man "azn" chick.

anyway i can't really imagine that any woman would try to subvert the possible presidency of the only person running for president that will protect a woman's right to have an abortion. seriously, you're going to let a little condescension strawman basically help get mccain elected? you're not only being silly you're being stubborn.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | May 20, 2008 8:42 PM

I am confident I will get her votes if I'm the nominee. It's not clear she would get the votes I got if she were the nominee."

What I have problem is the media and Obama supporters let Obama get away with many insensitive crap but Clinton has gotten a raw deal.
How come the media don't ask black people (90% of them support Obama) who voted for Obama did they vote for him only b/c of his race? I suppose that is ok.

Posted by angryaznchick | May 20, 2008 9:05 PM

Hold on a minute, sweetie.. Life's not fair.

Posted by Clint | May 20, 2008 9:10 PM

It's just Kentucky! They are only sister loving rubes they are not smart cool thrift shopping hipsters like Oregonians! We like Oregonians because they appreciate a green lifestyle like us and don't eat squirrels!

Obama doesn't even need stupid people like Kentuckians! Oregon rocks, man! Portland light rail is so cool. They drive PICKUPS in Kentucky! Can you believe that?

Again, I'd rather have a Kentuckian manning the ramparts with me when the Islamoterrorists motor up to the beach on their Zodiacs than an overly polite Oregonian or, God forbid, a teary latte sippin Seattleite --> Just chop our heads off NOW, extra hot with whipped!

Posted by Bob | May 20, 2008 9:11 PM

angryaznchick, blacks have been polled that. go look at the data.

and that quote is basically him just saying that republicans/independents don't like hillary and would be more likely to vote for him than they would her.

"insensitive crap"? you seem to have a lots of anger that goes beyond the scope of this post.

Posted by stinkbug | May 20, 2008 9:11 PM

#42: Its true though...the independant vote who went Obama in Utah, Alaska, Idaho etc loathe Obama just as the rednecks in West Virgina, Kentucky, etc loathe Obama. The difference? They barely know him. The independants in Utah, Montana, Alaska, have known Hillary for 16 yrs.....he believes they have opinions more set in stone. Half those Kentucky voters still believe he's Muslim for Christ's sake....and still "heard he won't say the pledge". That's what is meant. New vs. Old.

Posted by Jason | May 20, 2008 9:16 PM

#42: Its true though...the independant vote who went Obama in Utah, Alaska, Idaho etc loathe Clinotn just as the rednecks in West Virgina, Kentucky, etc loathe Obama. The difference? They barely know him. The independants in Utah, Montana, Alaska, have known Hillary for 16 yrs.....he believes they have opinions more set in stone. Half those Kentucky voters still believe he's Muslim for Christ's sake....and still "heard he won't say the pledge". That's what is meant. New vs. Old.

Posted by Jason | May 20, 2008 9:17 PM

#42: Its true though...the independant vote who went Obama in Utah, Alaska, Idaho etc loathe Clinotn just as the rednecks in West Virgina, Kentucky, etc loathe Obama. The difference? They barely know him. The independants in Utah, Montana, Alaska, have known Hillary for 16 yrs.....he believes they have opinions more set in stone. Half those Kentucky voters still believe he's Muslim for Christ's sake....and still "heard he won't say the pledge". That's what is meant. New vs. Old.

Posted by Jason | May 20, 2008 9:17 PM

Gee Bob, if only Bill O'Reilly didn't exist. Then you'd be unique. And if only Stephen Colbert didn't exist. Then you'd be funny.

Posted by elenchos | May 20, 2008 9:18 PM

51: Actually you're absolutely right. Fuck the rednecks and hillbillies. You think I want those backwards ass states on my side? That would be like Lincoln trying to win over the South by pandering to slave owners or the Democrats pandering to segregationists in the 1960s. If West Virginians and Kentuckians could prove their world views were leading to social and economic prosperity or represented some kind of vision for the country I could live with, they might be worth listening to. But right now, listening to them is like listening to the Dixiecrats. So guess what, I'm going to condescend to and thumb my nose at them. Just like the Seattle hicks that threatened me this evening because they thought I was gay, the West Virginians and Kentuckians are not the kind of people I want to associate with.

Yes, that analogy is way over the top. But that's the way I like them. And yes, I'm generalizing. But fuck specificity right now.

Posted by Jay | May 20, 2008 9:22 PM

So I don't regret- at all- deciding to switch to supporting Obama a couple of weeks ago. But people who chock the KY/WV wins up purely to racism are deluding themselves.

WE DEMOCRATS have to work harder at showing centrist voters why it's in their interest to support Obama in the fall if we want to win. Being smarmy and writing them off as hicks isn't going to cut it.

Posted by Big Sven | May 20, 2008 9:34 PM


Posted by lol | May 20, 2008 9:34 PM

"blacks have been polled that. go look at the data." I haven't found the data. The Pennsylvania primary polling data was too small for black voters. I mean come on over 90% of black voters support Obama and you're telling me race is not a factor? That crack head Marion Barry of former DC mayor he was incompetent and corrupt yet most of the black DC residents still supported him. It's stupid to support someone only because his/her race. What about the concern that the party will lose blacks' support if Hillary somehow gets the nomination? Why is that not talked about by the media and only clinton supporters are villified who said they won't vote for Obama if Hillary lose? Where is the fairness to Clinton

Posted by angryaznchick | May 20, 2008 9:36 PM

Don't worry, Sven. Wait for Hillary to finish whatever it is she's up to and give it a couple weeks. It will settle down.

Welcome back!

Posted by elenchos | May 20, 2008 9:38 PM

OK, I'll be charitable to Hillary here and assume that she's not trying to perform a kamikaze attack on the Democratic party at this point. Maybe she is just trying to engineer a graceful exit that will pacify her angry supporters and allow her to save face. The question is: what the fuck are those angry supporters thinking? What on earth is the path to victory they envision? Are they just fueled by rage now?

Posted by tsm | May 20, 2008 9:54 PM

why do i keep seeing comments (not just on slog) about how people aren't going to vote for obama because the *media* and his *supporters* say such and such? the media and clinton supporters have said all kinds of stupid shit to me indirectly and directly (no, i don't think it's one sided), but it's what the candidates say themselves that actually helps form my decisions. i hope people aren't actually as knee jerk reactionary as one might think after reading comment threads out there, and actually are weighing the importance of the decision they're making.

Posted by skye | May 20, 2008 9:56 PM

And Big Sven@58, I'm all for persuading centrists, but how do you reason with swaths of voters convinced that Obama is a closet Muslim, or that he will enslave the white race? Seriously, how?

Posted by tsm | May 20, 2008 9:56 PM

57, who needs Appalachia? They are all going to vote for McCain anyway because THEY ARE STUPID. And if a real war started we wouldn't need dumbass hicks to fight the evildoers, not when we could draft an army of Seattleites and Portlanders!

Again, the arrogance of the local Obamaniacs is only exceeded by their cowardice in the face of anything more daunting or dangerous than a Barista who forgot if you wanted it "skinny" or not.

Kentuckians and West Virginians are the gutsy heroes who get their asses shot at to keep you Stranger readers safe to make fun of them.

And Elenchos, thanks for playing Bob. (pats him on head and points him to the bus stop)

Posted by Bob | May 20, 2008 9:57 PM

20% of dem. voters in KY said it was a race-based decision. 200K for obama & 450K for hillary = 650K total voters. 20% = 130K rascist democrats (and i'm not counting the ones who wouldn't admit it). that leaves hillary at 200:320 advantage. big but not as impressive.

i'm going to discount the rascist vote, and look at the gap among older women. women so want to see a woman in the white house that they can't see that THIS woman isn't the one who can do it (i live with 2 of these women). i know my 2 will fall in line when hillary concedes. for older EDUCATED white women voters in KY, despite their promises that they'll vote for McCain in nov., i don't believe them.

the crackers i believe.

Posted by maxsolomon@home | May 20, 2008 10:00 PM

I'm going to discount the Obama voters who would flee like scalded baby sea lions if the military draft returned. So, actually, Hillary won in Oregon.

Posted by Bob | May 20, 2008 10:05 PM

@58: Well said, Big Sven. Hillary still has the chance to take the high road after the inevitable moment when she must bow out by going back to PA, Ohio, and even red states like KY and WV by campaigning for Obama in the general. The Republicans have done absolutely nothing for the rural and blue collar urban whites with whom Hillary is very popular; therefore she is the perfect person to bring these people back into the party that wants to bring their sons and daughters home from Iraq, give them access to decent health care and keep jobs paying decent wages in this country. Imagine what further damage Bush could have done if he had a three digit IQ, and that's what we'll get with McCain.

Posted by RainMan | May 20, 2008 10:10 PM

lol at bob's blog. recommended.

Posted by skye | May 20, 2008 10:16 PM

bob, you're a funny guy: "Kentuckians and West Virginians are the gutsy heroes who get their asses shot at to keep you Stranger readers safe to make fun of them."

what is the obsession with bar fights? how common are they in your world?

Posted by maxsolomon@home | May 20, 2008 10:18 PM

can we call clinton a bitch yet?

Posted by wf | May 20, 2008 10:19 PM

dude, crazyaznchick, you're making my point in that asians don't like black people. you're going off on them for making decisions you don't like and saying it's inherent to their race.

anyway, i know you'll probably never get an abortion because it'd be so disgraceful for the fams but seriously, youre a fucking woman. stop voting against your ovaries goddamnit.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | May 20, 2008 10:22 PM

Bob is an idiot. His name is fucking bob for god's sake.

Posted by Bellevue Ave | May 20, 2008 10:24 PM

seriously, who the fuck is saying that hillary gets a raw deal from the media and obama doesn't? remember the last debate!?>

Posted by what the fuck, mate | May 20, 2008 10:27 PM

@70, I haven't brawled in years but I've never been afraid to tangle unless they looked bigger, stronger, faster or meaner than me.

It's not literally about barfighting it's figuratively about a standard or quality in another that one might value. Men being men. It's really about the unjustified arrogance of bearded weenies taking shots behind monitors at the salt of the earth.

No battles or wars that made this country free and safe for sneering weenies were won by said sneering weenies. They were won by West Virginians and Kentuckians and Montanans! By men who drive pickups and pick their teeth with Buck knives they've sharpened themselves on hard Arkansas stones.


Posted by Bob | May 20, 2008 10:27 PM

So by your own admission you pick on people smaller, weaker, slower, softer than you? That IS special.

I've cut off more body parts with Buck knives than you could find with both hands and a mirrored dressing room, tough guy.

Posted by Fnarf | May 20, 2008 10:30 PM

Fnark, is this the part where I am ganged up on by all the "regulars" now? Am I going to flee Slog in tears because you all type so smart and tough and have such extreme internet reputations? Tell us about all the body parts you've cut off with Buck knives, this should be umm interesting.

Posted by Bob | May 20, 2008 10:37 PM

I will now set my clothing ablaze, run into the street, and scream.

Can this fucking primary be over yet, or what?!?!?


Posted by Jubilation T. Cornball | May 20, 2008 10:41 PM

aznchick, we've been over this before. In this very thread. Black people voting for Obama is not an example of racism. Nor is white people voting for Clinton. Etc, etc, my response to kitna at 17.

Clinton is disliked by a lot of people, and though some of them may take issue with her gender, a lot more of them don't like her aggressiveness or her attitude. I, for one, like her fine and think she's a smart politician. Obama, on the other hand, has bent over backwards to be even-handed in his political career, and has an impressive history to illustrate it. So, discarding race as a voter issue, we can see more Obama supporters (from the independent column mostly, along with those who dislike Clinton) failing to deliver for her, whereas if we give her supporters the benefit of the doubt on race, they have given little reason to dislike him. Legitimate reasons aren't ridicule-worthy, of course, and I'm sure most people can think of a few, but some are being overly transparent.

If you don't think Obama is respectful enough of Sen. Clinton, scroll up... way up... and read what he said about her in his speech tonight.

I'm another educated latina woman wholeheartedly behind Senator Obama.

Posted by V | May 20, 2008 10:43 PM

What's the deal with talking about Obama speaking before "Oregon polls closed"? Wasn't this a mail-only primary?

Posted by leek | May 20, 2008 10:44 PM

I liked the Obama speech.

Unlike many of his supporters here on Slog, he says respectful things about Hillary and he really went out of his way to praise her character.

Look she gets about 47% fo the total vote...Obama's numerical vicotry isn't a landslide or anything....the party is dvidided.

Unite versus scorn 'n' divide.

Hmmm, which way leads to victory? Which way is what Obama is preaching?

"If u throw away entire demographics and call them names -- U 2 could be a dumbass loser in the Fall." -- Jeff Foxworthy.

And saying things like Kentucky has voted GOP recently is not exactly true -- they went for Clinton.

You gotta get some of those Dogpatchy places and some of the Archie Bunker hard hat types to win. Slamming on them is the whole mistake liberals and progressives have made since about 1968 when they made it very, very clear they thought all those idiot hard hats beating on the hippies were idiots.

Yeah. Idiots for opposing urban riots, idiots for loving America, idiots for opposing busing. All things folks in ND and UT and WA and OR never even had to deal with because there basically aren't even any black people in those places.

Some Obame supporters now preach division and scornful despair ("those dueling banjo rednecks screw their sisters and will never be smart like us here on the coast!"), rather than One America, unity and hope.

'Twill be a sad way to lose the fall election.

Posted by PC | May 20, 2008 11:20 PM

"Kentucky has gone Republican in five of the last seven elections."

Why yes....IOW Dems win when they carry Ky. and not when they don't. And not just the last 7 but all the way back to 1964, too.

You can either argue hisotry OR say everything is changed, you can't argue history that actually disproves your point.

Posted by PC | May 20, 2008 11:29 PM

#81: Oh wah wah wah. Bah bah blacksheep.

Posted by Jay | May 20, 2008 11:35 PM

History moves on and crushes the weak. Crom is happy.

Posted by Jay | May 20, 2008 11:36 PM

I agree, PC; that would be a sad way to lose. Especially since Sen. Obama has been so welcoming to people of all walks in his campaign.

Luckily, that may be a manufactured issue, and I'm holding out hope that it is. Gallup numbers indicate that now that Obama is the likely nominee, his support is growing. Because Democrats are likely to vote for the Democratic candidate! Because that's what makes them Democrats!

Someone else around here noted our tendency to dramatize. How many who swore they'd move to Canada if Bush won in 2004 did? Similarly, most of the Clinton voters swearing they won't vote Obama (and vice versa) will. He's not likely to personally offend them.

I hope very much that logic prevails.

Posted by V | May 20, 2008 11:36 PM

77: Yer so tuff bob. Can you suck my cock with those strong good ol' boy lips of yours?

Posted by Jay | May 20, 2008 11:38 PM

I wish there was a reality tv show called "Mountain People VS Coastal Whites"

Posted by stinkbug | May 20, 2008 11:38 PM

87: I am a mountain boy who happens to live in Seattle. Where do I fit in on this slammin' reality show?

Posted by Jay | May 20, 2008 11:40 PM

Gutsy burly southern men would die at a much greater rate and much more often if it were not for smarmy weak college boys making bigger and better guns, or even, god forbid, mediating between two hostile sides to bring about a resolution without punching someone in the face and proving once and for all that brawn beats brains.

Posted by Chris in Tampa | May 21, 2008 12:01 AM

It sure is amazing how tuff ole little bob tries to be hiding there behind his big ole laptop. And what is that next to it, is that a latte with sprinkles? and funny if you look back at his posts, all this time he keeps indicating he is looking for a man's man to prove his manly-ness. hmmmmm

Posted by Sad Comment | May 21, 2008 12:08 AM

A great summary of the whole "white people" factor Clinton's campaign:

Posted by Jay | May 21, 2008 12:16 AM

There should be an "in" in that last post between factor and Clinton's.

Posted by Jay | May 21, 2008 12:18 AM

People who Bob can beat in a bar fight:
Robert Oppenheimer
Marian Rejewski
Stephanie Kwolek

Smarmy, elitist post script: Feel free to look these people up to find out what they did, since I'm sure you never learned about them before dropping out of high school to work with your big and strong, hot and sweaty bar buddies.

Posted by Chris in Tampa | May 21, 2008 12:21 AM

tsm@64: I'm not arguing that we have to turn the racists, a la Billy Bob Thornton in "The Apostle". I'm arguing that the vast majority of the KY/WV Clinton vote is based on economic issues, not racial ones. Perhaps we can't win these two particular states, but one way or the other we will have to convince blue collar voters of the truth- that Obama IS going to better serve them in the White House than Grandpa McCain.

Posted by Big Sven | May 21, 2008 12:47 AM

@93 you forgot
"Chris in Tampa"

Posted by Bob | May 21, 2008 5:08 AM

In related news, no Democrat should really be worried about 90,000 year-old McCain. So calm down. He's older than fucking Dole was. Look what happened to him.

Posted by Mr. Poe | May 21, 2008 8:12 AM

Maybe they are both bigoted rubes and formidable in war. Like the Nazis. There. Happy?

I still say you're no Stephen Colbert, Bob.

Posted by elenchos | May 21, 2008 8:14 AM

Expect Hillary to demand to be the VP nominee (BTW the VP ALSO has to be nominated at the convention by the floor vote, party rules. Obama does not just pick who he wants) and if she does not get her way EXPECT HER TO PULL A LEIBERMANN IN THE FALL. Seriously, prepare yourselves for either of these two realities. She will push this up to the convention in August.

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | May 21, 2008 8:34 AM

Surfed over to Bob's blog and expected to see several posts about his experiences fighting in Iraq, but they must have been deleted by the military.

Posted by kk | May 21, 2008 8:46 AM

Hey, angryaznchick, did you ever stop to think that maybe black voters dropped their support for Clinton for a reason?

In a December Pew poll, Clinton trailed Obama among black voters in South Carolina by only one percentage point--44 to 43. Even as late as the post-New Hampshire primary Pew poll, Obama was ahead of Clinton nationally by 52 to 33 percent among black voters. But after Clinton turned negative, Obama regularly won 90 percent or more of the black vote.
Posted by jethro | May 21, 2008 9:15 AM

Re: ECB @28 - I was going to go around and find all the times you implicitly and explicitly accused anyone who didn't like Clinton of being sexist, or basically ignored any polling or response that indicated people might actually dislike her for reasons other than her gender, but I couldn't stop laughing long enough.

Posted by Oh, the Hypocrisy | May 21, 2008 9:49 AM

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