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Friday, September 28, 2007

A Christian Notion

posted by on September 28 at 13:58 PM

John “Agents of Intolerance” McCain has had his tongue firmly lodged up the butts of religious conservatives for a while now. And today he gave it a little wiggle:

A recent poll found that 55 percent of Americans believe the U.S. Constitution establishes a Christian nation. What do you think?

I would probably have to say yes, that the Constitution established the United States of America as a Christian nation.

Yes, John, you “probably” would have to say yes—because you’ll pretty much say anything the religious right wants to hear. And they never tire of hearing that the U.S. Constitution—drawn up by nominally Christian deists—established the U.S. as a Christian nation. It’s bullshit, of course, and McCain knows it. Pathetic.

Via Atrios.

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I agree, and we Quakers get to decide what that means, since we were the majority at the time it was signed.

... grin ...

Oh, wait, suddenly you don't like it, huh?

Nice try, apostates.

Posted by Will in Seattle | September 28, 2007 2:10 PM

That's nice. He's never going to be president anyway so whatever.

Posted by monkey | September 28, 2007 2:13 PM

so seperation of church and state means seperation of catholic church and state.

gotcha, check.

Posted by Cale | September 28, 2007 2:22 PM

So, to paraphrase:
"Sir, a survey shows that 55% of respondents said they agreed with a demonstrably incorrect statement regarding the Founding Fathers' intentions for this country. Given that you are hoping to be elected by a majority of voters, do you also believe this statement to be true?"

"Yes, I'd say I'm about 55% sure that the statement is indeed correct."

Posted by flamingbanjo | September 28, 2007 2:26 PM

@ 1 quakers were never the majority in this country. 3 of the 55 signers were quaker or nominally associated with quaker-ism. they were john dickinson, george clymer and thomas mifflin.

secondly, john mccain has lost any rationale for running for president. what happened to the "straigh talk" express persona? i would never have voted for him in 2000, but at least he seemed authentic and honest. now he just seems pathetic. and old. really, really old.

Posted by chris | September 28, 2007 2:32 PM

We are not a Christian Nation, we are a Corporate Controlled Nation... Gee people need to wake up and deal with that.

Posted by Cato the Younger Younger | September 28, 2007 2:43 PM

There is really no changing it, Cato. It's a done deal.

Posted by monkey | September 28, 2007 2:51 PM

US President and Christian Zealot Invokes God To Justify Invasion

Hey I wrote this this morning. Because I'm effing psychic.

Posted by Darth Odie | September 28, 2007 2:52 PM

I'm down for a Quaker nation, but no way am I down for the wacko-evangelical Christian nation. Quakers have the most interesting service culture out of all of the sects. And I'm down for being your nontheist friend.

Posted by seattle98104 | September 28, 2007 2:57 PM

Just shows that McCain knows as little about the Constitution as 55% of the electorate. Nothing in the Constitution makes us a Christian nation . . .

Dan's also incorrect that the Constitution was drawn up by Deists. Jefferson was certainly a Deist, but he was fairly unique among delegates to the Constitutional Convention. The largest group of Founding Fathers were Episcopalians (54%), followed by Presbyterians (17%) and Congregationalists (11%). If you look at the lives of Decl of Indep signers like Adams (trained at Harvard and nearly became a minister) and Witherspoon (Presbyterian minister and president of what later became Princeton) you can see there were some very religious types among the larger group of "Founding Fathers."

That said, it's pretty clear there's little bias toward Christianity in how the document in drawn up and now good argument for saying what apparently 55% of the unwashed masses are claiming. McCain's doing precisely what Dan describes. Shame.

Posted by parsonbrown | September 28, 2007 2:59 PM

What happened to the Straight Talk Express?

It's on a permanent vacation to Bullshitville.

Posted by Original Andrew | September 28, 2007 3:19 PM

What a lot of evangelical types, in their headlong rush to get their hands up the butts of every American, fail to realize is that the separation of church and state is just as much about protecting religion from government as protecting government from religion. A lot of preachers want to set government policy, but they would surely rebel if the government wanted to set their policy. They should get down on their knees and thank God that Uncle Sam doesn't have a hand on their pulpit.

Posted by Greg | September 28, 2007 3:19 PM

@10- Parson brown:

"Episcopalians (54%), followed by Presbyterians (17%) and Congregationalists (11%)."

..they believe in god right? or a singluar one- they are deists- deists believe in a dieity.

And just because the religious beliefs of the founding fathers tended toward deist does not mean that they founded a christian nation.

there was no language in the constitution that says this either explicitly or implicitly. In fact in the Bill of Rights- or the first 10 amendments to the constitution (the first amendment specifically "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. "- they specifically deny any one particular religion from being established as the 'official' one.

The fact that 55% of the US population is semiliterate and is educated by the tv and has better idea than whatever strongly worded opinion they heard last does not give any strong argument for them being right- !!!

Posted by nelbot | September 28, 2007 3:26 PM

@13 I think you're confusing "Deist" with "theist." Better look 'em up. Otherwise I think we agree completely.

Posted by parsonbrown | September 28, 2007 3:30 PM

amen @ 12! that is something i've never gotten about the fundies. they want it both ways (tax free status as well as a hand in the govt. policy pie). if the shoe was on the other foot so to speak, they'd be screaming bloody murder.

Posted by chris | September 28, 2007 3:38 PM

George Washington's Opinion:

(from the Treaty of Tripoli 1796, Article 11:)

"As the government of the United States of America is not in any sense founded on the Christian Religion..."

seems pretty clear to me...

Posted by Rxtr | September 28, 2007 3:57 PM

I totally agree with Greg...
My life would be so much better if it was all kept seperate. It benefits both sides.

Posted by mj | September 28, 2007 5:27 PM

Sometimes I find polls unnerving.

I mean, 55% of Americans are drooling half-wits whose idea of fun consists of monster trucks and blowing the brains out of a deer. Are we ready to say that's typically American?

Posted by Bauhaus | September 28, 2007 5:30 PM

Christianity is responsible for all the faults of the United States.

Just look to Israel, a nation founded on a religion of truth and justice for an example of how great the U.S. could be if only it would abandon Christianity.

Posted by Issur | September 29, 2007 5:21 PM

Issur you are so smart and wise! I think I'm going to convert and move to Israel just from soaking in all your great wisdom here on slog.
I may even change my name to Hadassah...

Posted by mj | September 29, 2007 6:30 PM

All Jews should live some of their live in Israel and become committed to the centrality of Israel based on the renaissance of the Jewish people in its historic homeland.

The Stranger has been good about promoting the Israeli army as a model for the U.S. and demanding Jewish holidays be celebrated in Seattle's public spaces, we need to take it to the next step and remind each other to become more observant, study Hebrew, and send more money to Israel.

Posted by Issur | September 30, 2007 12:33 PM

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