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Friday, November 3, 2006

When a Conservative Christian Pastor Gets Caught Messing Around With Gay Hookers, Buying Crystal Meth, and Accepting Same-Sex Massages… Who’s to Blame?

posted by on November 3 at 18:38 PM

His lazy, fat bitch of a wife, of course.

Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this. It is not uncommon to meet pastors’ wives who really let themselves go; they sometimes feel that because their husband is a pastor, he is therefore trapped into fidelity, which gives them cause for laziness. A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband’s sin, but she may not be helping him either.

I’m sure Ted Haggard is saying something along these lines to his wife right now: “Oh, honey… I wouldn’t have been having those meth-fueled ass-banging sessions with that gay hooker if you hadn’t have let yourself go like that!”

These words of wisdom were authored by Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church, and posted today on his blog. It’s a lengthy post written in reaction to the Haggard scandal. “The pastor’s wife is a fat-ass slob” is at the top of Driscoll’s reasons why an otherwise upright Christian pastor might indulge in sinful sexual pursuits.

Driscoll’s Mars Hill Church—watch for a franchise opening in your neighborhood soon!—is modeled on mega-church’s like Haggard’s Colorado Springs mega-church. Here’s hoping Driscoll’s fall is modeled on Haggard’s as well.

Thanks to tipper Phil M.

RSS icon Comments


If it's true that he had an affair because his wife let herself go, wouldn't he have had an affair with a woman? And in the video where they were interviewing Haggard in his car, he sure looked a lot less attractive than his wife. His eyebrows scare me.

Posted by Sam | November 3, 2006 7:23 PM

Pastor's wives, like pastor's kids, can never win. There's always a bunch of bitchy second-guessers who are judging them.

Posted by catalina vel-duray | November 3, 2006 7:24 PM

We need a psychiatrist to explain why these Evangelical Christians are so FUBAR crazy.

It could be a feature in the Stranger if not a book!

Posted by Andrew | November 3, 2006 7:28 PM

What does Mrs. H look like? Anybody seen a photo?

Posted by cite | November 3, 2006 7:42 PM

it's in the video mentioned from a few posts down. she looks fit for her age. BUT THAT'S BESIDE THE POINT!

Posted by chris | November 3, 2006 7:45 PM

I don't care if his wife looked like a maimed walrus, smelled like a sewage treatment plant, and had oozing sores. If he was truly an unhappy hetero, wouldn't he hire a FEMALE hooker?

This is the lamest rationalization I've heard all day. Some of these Jezuz freaks can convince themselves of anything.

Posted by SDA in SEA | November 3, 2006 10:16 PM

really, the problem is Jesus let himself go and stopped making himself available to come into him. .. so he hired a hooker.

sorry i'm drunk.

Posted by seattle98104 | November 3, 2006 10:28 PM

If only his wife hadn't let herself go and still have big muscles and a dick, he wouldn't have gone astray.

Posted by cite | November 3, 2006 11:11 PM

Driscoll... what a douche bag. I can't wait until he's caught doing lines with a fourteen-year-old boy. The way that this guy is going, he's going to start asking his female followers to wear burkas or veils sometime soon.

Posted by bma | November 3, 2006 11:26 PM

Even before I saw who wrote this, I knew it was from that asshole Driscoll. I'm not one who thinks everyone is gay who is anti-gay, but spend ten minutes with his blog, and it seems pretty obvious that he has his own issues with the gays because he's a closet case. As a former fundie, I am particularly sensitive to this bullshit. Actually, Haggard, from the videos I've seen, is a milion times more gracious than Driscoll. I feel bad for Haggard. Driscoll's ego makes me drool for the day he goes down. What a total fucker he is.

Posted by Lola | November 4, 2006 12:06 AM

bma... what a douche bag. This comment from Driscoll says nothing about Haggard’s wife specifically, but has relevance in context. Get off your own hypocrisy.

Posted by parliment_funk | November 4, 2006 12:11 AM

You are, Dan.

Posted by spokevin | November 4, 2006 12:13 AM

in the movie, borat has dinner with 2 men and 3 women. one of the men is a pastor, and one of the women is his wife. borat says, "in my country men would go crazy for these two [women], but not so much this one [points to pastor's wife].

Posted by dna | November 4, 2006 12:15 AM

"This comment from Driscoll says nothing about Haggard’s wife specifically, but has relevance in context. Get off your own hypocrisy."

I really don't know where you're reading hypocrisy in this. When I cheat on my wife with a gay prostitute but then exert my influence as a fundamentalist preacher to get bigotry written into a state constitution, *then* you can call me a hypocrite. Otherwise, the fact that I consistently think that pastors that use the Bible to "teach women their proper place" are not great people doesn't quite qualify me for the position. (In fact, I haven't been to a Catholic church for several years to keep from being a hypocrite about things like this.)

The context that Driscoll uses that comment in is pretty damn repulsive, and Dan is correct in that the implication is that Haggard fell from grace because his wife just wasn't "available" for him. Sure, pastors and ministers are people too, and they can have problems with relationships. Driscoll correctly identifies a few problems that are present with clergy and other people in related fields. No problem with that.

But the *solution* that Driscoll preaches is an uneven partnership, which is his consistent message. Shut up, look pretty, get pregnant and take care of the house. I am your master, and the authority of the household. I make the decisions, and you are the decoration. The furniture. A baby factory for the next generation of Martians.

I used to think that there was something redeemable in the followers even if their was little redeemable in the shepherd. But if you sit and listen to this day after day and say or do nothing to object (regardless of whether you are a man or a woman), then it is your message too. This level of arrogance does not show the path to God. I truly hope, though, that there is hope for some of his followers who have lost their way and found a false god.

Posted by bma | November 4, 2006 1:58 AM

People here don't seem to notice there only one position less enviable than Mrs. Driscoll's now, and it is Pastor Driscoll's. I really wonder how he'll explain this one to his wife.
As for Haggard, he's fried anyway, so I hope he enjoys.

Posted by Mokawi | November 4, 2006 2:07 AM

Dammit, BMA. You called Driscoll a douchebag before I got the chance. (I was working. We had a birthday party at the bar tonight for two friends who are gay, happy to be, don't do meth, don't lie, respect women rather than attempt to subjegate them, and are damned to hell for all eternity in the eyes of the Evangelicals).

Posted by Mark Mitchell | November 4, 2006 3:20 AM

It's amazing Driscoll has followers in Seattle, and even more so that fairly big named musicians in the Seattle scene are members and supporters. When will the Stranger do the expose on how Mars Hill has co-opted Seattle underground music to recruit young indie kids into this crazy cult? The Stranger continues to promote the Paradox, Mars Hill's main outreach to Seattle kids into live music which Driscoll takes credit for starting in his bio and when he does national speaking. Is there a more fucked up sexist homophobe in the NW? I predict Driscoll will go down like Jim Bakker, Swaggart, and now Haggerd. Just wonder how many lives he'll ruin in the process. People need to speak out against Driscoll and his church, and we need to quit excusing his followers because they are 'nice people'. It's not nice to be a sexist homophobe and it's not cool to be a member of this church no matter how much the pastor swears or allows tattood drummers to play during the service.

Posted by Meinert | November 4, 2006 6:11 AM

Betty Bowers has some choice words about the Haggard affair

Posted by Hank | November 4, 2006 6:45 AM

Driscoll also favors "heterosexual male assistants" for pastors rather than women or gay men.... good luck dude! Douche bag, indeed.

Posted by Polka Party | November 4, 2006 7:09 AM

Ms.Haggard should get some Big Black Dick now just to rub this mess in his face. Cuckold the hell out of that high and mighty turd.

Posted by sputnik | November 4, 2006 7:25 AM

OMG Betty Bowers is a genius:

"I suspect that this will be a rather uncomfortable weekend at the Ted Haggard tax-free mansion. You see, Reverend Haggard is a vociferous spokesperson against gay marriage and, until yesterday, his wife probably had no idea she was actually in one."

"It is quite clear that Ted Haggard is a man with admirable devotion to the Christian/GOP cause. After all, it must take enormous willpower for a meth-crazed sodomite to remove a penis from his mouth long enough to denounce homosexuality."

Posted by Andrew | November 4, 2006 8:10 AM

Hmm. Well if having a fat, sexually unavailable spouse is the gateway to sin, I'd guess about two-thirds of middle-aged, married Americans -- men and women -- are meth-fueled homosexuals.

Posted by Goldy | November 4, 2006 8:12 AM

what are you people doing blathering about this non-event? doogie howser just came out of the closet!!! wm. steve humphrey, WHERE ARE YOU???????

Posted by ginger | November 4, 2006 8:20 AM

Quick comment on the Mars Hill church... I drive by their Ballard (are they only in Ballard right now?) location regularly and have to say it more than concerns me that something like this exists - not only in Seattle, but in Ballard.

Watching all the so-called X- and Y-gen'ers going into the building (which looks more like a big warehouse than a church) with their books and their preppy wear really concerns me, especially based on what their site says about, oh, little things like gay people, abortion and such.

Is no one else concerned that this type of institution exists so close?

Or, perhaps it's just me.

Oh, and for Doogie Howser - I think I assumed he was gay since I first watched him on TV when I was like 11...

Posted by manicdog | November 4, 2006 10:12 AM

The top sidebar item on Pastor Driscoll's site is stunning:

"Where the hand of God meets the hands of men

Posted by Orson | November 4, 2006 11:41 AM

Clearly Haggard's wife isn't on the Jerusalem Diet with him.

Perhaps the secret to staying svelt is a bump and a gay hooker. Sign me up!

Posted by Jerusalem Diet | November 4, 2006 1:21 PM

As a rationalization for Haggard's actions, it's ridiculous.

However, it's a truth that actually applies to married women in general. I've lost count of the women I've seen who let themselves go to hell once they get married. It's almost like they fake being fit and active and other positive qualities, then once they hook a man in matrimony, they get fat and lazy and bitchy.

Posted by Gomez | November 4, 2006 1:22 PM

Hmmm... and I could say the same in reverse! It's a truth that actually applies to married men in general, too. I've lost count of the men I've seen who let themselves go to hell once they get married. It's almost like they fake being fit and active and other positive qualities, then once they hook a woman in matrimony, they get fat and lazy and bitchy.

Posted by bma | November 4, 2006 2:37 PM

The solution to the above scenario: outlaw marriage. We could all benefit from fewer fat, lazy, bitchy spouses.

Posted by some velvet morning | November 4, 2006 3:37 PM

Jaysus, save me from your followers.

Married Women let themselves go?

Um, okay, you squeeze out 2.5 children, get six weeks unpaid maternity leave, be up all fucking night with the screamimg brats, get up, feed the kids, try to eat "healthy" realize you don't have time before you have to drop the kids off at daycare, so you grab a piece of last night's leftover KFC chicken, gulp some coffee, shoehorn the kids into their snowsuits, and the carseat, drive to daycare, go to work, work 8.5 hours frantically call your husband to ask him if he could get the kids from daycare, get home to find utter chaos, and a husband telling you that you are a bad mom for working late, and where is his potpie? Feed the kids, who only will eat mac and cheese, argue with your husband about dinner, say "fuck it" order in pizza for you and him...your husband goes online while you clean the dishes, get the kids to bed, start a load of laundry, iron both your skirt and sew the button on husband's shirt, start the dishwasher, outline your presentation, clean up the toilet while you are in there brushing your teeth-thanking the dental gods that you could at least find time to brush your teeth...-collaspe into bed after making up formula bottles for daycare, and collasping into bed..

And....just when would you like an American mom to find time to take care of herself so she can look all purty for her man-(who, if his wife were a priority would do more than expect a standing ovation for taking out the trash without being reminded)

And let's not forget that contrary to Hollywood fairytales-Angelina lost her baby fat in six short weeks!-most American Women can't afford personal chefs, personal trainers and a 24/7 staff of nannies so they can go to the gym for a break...

Posted by rowan | November 4, 2006 3:47 PM

Typical liberal media. You guys pretend that having a moralizing blowhard revealed as a drug-using adulterer counts as news. Find a gay-bashing preacher who ISN'T a screaming closet case, and THAT will truly be news.

Posted by Paddy Mac | November 4, 2006 3:51 PM

Dan, I'm a regular reader of your column, but please. You know as well as I do that if someone had written you and said, "You know, I love my wife, but she's gained a ton of weight and we're not having sex anymore, what should I do?" your response would have been either "cheat on her," or "DTMFA."

Which doesn't, of course, address the "cheating on her with a man when I'm supposed to be a huge homo-hater" issue. Or the "perhaps crystal meth would be something fun to try" thing. But you're pretty much the last person who can claim that "my wife really let herself go" isn't grounds for cheating.

Posted by sammy | November 4, 2006 5:39 PM

" I have been blessed with a trustworthy heterosexual male assistant who can travel with me, meet with me, etc., without the fear of any temptations or even false allegations since we have beautiful wives and eight children between us."

Uh...wasn't Haggard married (she seems quite attractive) with children?

I don't get it. To the gays and bis out there: is that convincing?

Beautiful wife and children means no desire to have same-sex contacts?

As I have no wife (attractive or not) and no children (of which I am aware), I cannot offer an opinion.

Posted by Seattle Man | November 4, 2006 5:44 PM

I can't believe you missed this priceless quote:

"At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this."

Posted by mapletree7 | November 4, 2006 5:52 PM

WHY is it always the cheated-on wife's fault that the husband is a f**king pig?

Posted by Terry C, Hates Adulterers | November 4, 2006 5:58 PM


Tell like it is!

Posted by Terry C, Hates The GOP | November 4, 2006 6:08 PM

"At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this."

Cue wah-wah guitar:

Wokka-chikka-wokka-WOW, wokka-chikka-wokka-WOW...

Posted by dave | November 4, 2006 6:08 PM

The top sidebar item on Pastor Driscoll's site is stunning: Where the hand of God meets the hands of men

wrapped around a gay hooker's cock, of course. I'm put in mind of all those creepy "jesus is with you" drawings...

Posted by smiley | November 4, 2006 6:11 PM

The really sad thing is that Mark Driscoll's article has a lot of good points on what clergy need to do to preserve their churches' integrity. There among the "tell the missus to lay off the Halloween candy" assholery is a manifesto that deserves to be restated by someone in the religious right with a shred of credibility (good luck with that):

Don't play god--seek the counsel of a pastor.

Don't tolerate sin within church leadership

And my fave:

There is no reason to be alone with anyone at church at odd hours.

Unfortunately, Driscoll is a total dick, so his message--designed to drag the evangelical ministeries out of the gutter--further erodes the image of the churches.

They should get the memo.

Posted by JIM | November 4, 2006 6:13 PM

I don't know what you libruhls are all up in arms about.

Rev. Haggard is no hypocrite. He wanted to PNP and have hot man-on-man sex. When did he ever say he wanted to MARRY the guy?

Posted by r€nato | November 4, 2006 6:25 PM

These evangelical, hollier than thou, hell fire preaching fools are a bunch of hypocrites. Saints in the daytime, vampires at night. Why blame the wife? She did not send him out to go and look for a man to shagg, did she? The fool wnet and did his foolish deed for the thrill and joy of it. Blame no one but him.

In any case, Driscoll's analysis was bang right on, full stop.

Posted by holymonk | November 4, 2006 6:43 PM

Anyone know how far the wife of Pastor Mark Driscoll of Mars Hill Church has let herself go?

And how far has Pastor Mark allowed himself to go?

Posted by ROGNM | November 4, 2006 7:24 PM

will someone tell me what seattle musicians go to mars hill so i know which bands' CDs to stop buying?

Posted by Kevin Erickson | November 4, 2006 7:33 PM

You silly people. Don't you know warshipping with Mark Driscoll will get you a bigger white picket fence in heaven? He also has a few contacts that can make sure you end up in one of the better neighborhoods in the afterlife.

Posted by owlbear1 | November 4, 2006 7:56 PM

You know, we sit here chatting about Driscoll while the entire time Hutcherson sits in our backyard preaching the same thing -- and we let him.

We sit here chatting about how Driscoll has become the epitome of red-state lies yet Hutcherson sits here fighting against any sort of gay recognition or well, humanity -- and we let him without question.

Seems like there may be some hypocrisy here as well... no?

Posted by manicdog | November 4, 2006 8:03 PM

I looked up Mark Driscoll on Google images.

Of course, he's gone to seed.

Does that mean his lovely wife Grace can find some buff body builder or svelte chick and seek ecstatic experiences with that person??

Where does this end?

Posted by Alison | November 4, 2006 8:11 PM

you know, my wife let herself go. that's why i snort meth, too.

Posted by skippy | November 4, 2006 8:27 PM

Marriage, Christianity--only suckers mess with 'em.

Posted by some velvet morning | November 4, 2006 8:44 PM

Is Driscoll/Mars Hill the Christian/industrial/grunge/warehouse operation profiled in Salon recently?

Posted by The Liberal Avenger | November 4, 2006 8:49 PM

An idea:

Maybe the meth was really for his wife. I lost tons of weight back in college when I danced with the white devil.

Posted by The Liberal Avenger | November 4, 2006 8:53 PM

I agree with all the sentiments on Mars Hill above. I want band names who attend!!! Mars Hill outta Ballard!

Posted by imaginary dana | November 4, 2006 8:56 PM

I agree with all the sentiments on Mars Hill above. I want band names who attend!!! Mars Hill outta Ballard!

Posted by imaginary dana | November 4, 2006 8:56 PM

"As a rationalization for Haggard's actions, it's ridiculous."

That *comment* is ridiculous. If you read the whole blog post, you'd see that they were general observations and not totally directed toward the Ted Haggard situation.

Posted by Dave Perry | November 4, 2006 9:56 PM

It's my wife's fault I went down to Enumclaw and fucked those animals! Yeah, that's the ticket!

Posted by r€nato | November 4, 2006 10:07 PM

Further proof that Mr. Mark Driscoll is irrational: I found a picture of Gayle Haggard [aka 'Mrs. Ted',] - she is a fine looking woman, and is clearly devoted to her husband. No way would a heterosexual man be tempted by the arms of a man if he was going home to Gayle Haggard each night.

Posted by Oscar | November 4, 2006 10:21 PM

Oscar @ 55 - that link doesn't appear to work. That said, from the brief glimpses I saw in the car footage, she looked reasonably hot to me - I certainly wouldn't kick her out of bed if she shit on my chest. Certainly better looking than her creepy husband, with his creepy, creepy, Jebus-loves-me permanent fundie half-smile.

Posted by Benjo | November 4, 2006 10:54 PM

I found a picture of Gayle Haggard

not bad in white bread kind of way- I'd hit it... but then again I'm not a self-hating closet case with a drug problem who is personal friends with George W. Bush.

Poor lady, she is going to stand by her man, though fake de-gaying programs and take him back everytime he fails.

And Dan, as for who is to blame? Duh- Clinton! Dont you know by now that we are all powerless against the awsome might of Clienus!

Posted by dustbin | November 4, 2006 10:55 PM

Oh yeah, and I forgot 'making excuses for being fat, lazy and bitchy.'

There are LOTS of women who aren't rich celebrities who work off the pregnancy fat and live healthy after having children. Learn from them instead of making excuses.

And many of those fat, lazy married men end up fat and lazy because their wives tie them down from their formerly active lifestyles.

Posted by Gomez | November 4, 2006 11:51 PM

sometimes i doubt your committment to sparkle motion.

Posted by mwa mwa | November 4, 2006 11:55 PM

pastor's wives are overrated.

Posted by chris from boca | November 5, 2006 12:42 AM

Well, that settles it. I'm never getting married. The last thing I need is some lazy, asshole husband bitching at me for, egads, getting old and "letting" myself go. Meanwhile, he makes no effort to keep the relationship alive and interesting. Who the fuck needs that?

Posted by keshmeshi | November 5, 2006 1:58 AM

If he was truly an unhappy hetero, wouldn't he hire a FEMALE hooker?

No, really it makes complete sense in the context of the rest of their beliefs about gay sex. You see, they believe gay sex is so awesome that the only thing stopping all men from getting it on is heterosexual marriage, which is why gay marriage will destroy heterosexual marriage if it is ever legally allowed.

Furthermore, they believe only strong social pressure, combined with heterosexual marriage to a completely fantastic woman, will keep a man from seeking out sex with other men. So if the system fails, then either the condemnation of society wasn't strong enough (libruls!), which clearly isn't the case in an evangelical church, or the woman wasn't amazing enough in bed anymore, to keep her man's thoughts away from the ever-present lust for other men.

Those of us men who simply aren't attracted to other men will never understand the mindset of these anti-gay evangelicals, but then that's a large part of the reason we're not anti-gay evangelicals: we haven't anything to be scared of. We have sex with women exclusively, because that's the only way we like it.

Posted by derek | November 5, 2006 2:59 AM

God gave man a very strong sex drive. It just ain't natural for man to then be put in the position of not having sex! But Catholic Priests aren't allowed to - so they prey on choir boys. Married evangelicals - if they really do follow the Bible literally, only have sex to have kids. Anything else is considered "spilling their seed upon the ground" something clearly stated in the Bible. This guy has five kids (no wonder his wife is out of shape!) And he still has the sex urge. What's a man to do? When I was a kid, I heard the Greek soldiers had sex with one another because their was no women around and gay sex was then called "doin' it Greek." Evangelicals also believe gays should live their lives (if they want to live) in solitude, with no one to love or comfort them, if they can't be with someone of the opposite sex. Oh, God! Have I said that dirty word too many times?!

Posted by W.J. | November 5, 2006 3:52 AM

"A wife who lets herself go and is not sexually available to her husband in the ways that the Song of Songs is so frank about is not responsible for her husband’s sin, but she may not be helping him either."

Did it ever occur to Driscoll that maybe Haggard's wife let herself go and maybe (we really don't know that) even wasn't 'sexually available' because she had to accept that her husband was more interested in crispy young men than in her? Besides, having five babies doesn't improve a woman's figure in the vast majority of cases.

But if Driscoll wants to make the case that most christian chuches are chauvinistic and routinely discriminate against women, he's on the best way. I can only congratulate him on his frankness, it's about time christian women see who's on their side and who's not. I hope they draw the obvious consequence next tuesday.

Posted by Gray | November 5, 2006 4:35 AM

Well, if there was gender equality in America, this would certainly explain Mrs Jerry Falwell's cuckolding Mr Jerry.

Posted by bdr | November 5, 2006 6:20 AM

What's the hubbub- I find Mrs. Haggard quite attractive. Driscol is as big an ass as the rest. How people accept this drivel is far beyond my comprehension- perhaps I lack imagination, but for the life of me I can't understand why anyone would believe that these assholes speak for Jesus. The whole movement is a hoax on the desperate suckers who support them.

Posted by barrelhse | November 5, 2006 6:46 AM

Clearly it's his wife's fault. If she wanted him to be faithful, she should've had a 10" cock.

Posted by Crusty Dem | November 5, 2006 6:51 AM

Is it just me or is there kind of a weird, homoerotic vibe to this, the first sentence in the paragraph that Dan quotes:

"Most pastors I know do not have satisfying, free, sexual conversations and liberties with their wives. At the risk of being even more widely despised than I currently am, I will lean over the plate and take one for the team on this."

Yeah, "...leaning over the plate", bent over a chair, tied facedown to the bed, you can always rely on guys like Mark Driscoll and Ted Haggard to take one for the team, if you know what I mean.

Posted by wile_e_quixote | November 5, 2006 9:36 AM

Rowan, you really hit the nail on the head. So many of these fundies want to live in the fifties and forget that we had working mothers even then, and many of them were overweight from having babies. Also we have that little problem that the idea of beauty is a lot skinnier than it used to be. Marilyn Monroe would be considered fat by todays standards but would fit right in.
Top that off with the fact that the fundies totally reject reality and science. They refuse to believe that gays are born gay, and that women put on pounds having babies. I do not remember that god wants us to be blind, deaf and stupid.

Posted by medea | November 5, 2006 10:34 AM

And she does NOT look like she's "let herself go"--

Posted by Rachel | November 5, 2006 1:17 PM

What have you all got against douche bags?

Unlike the slime you are discussing, they are useful, and cleansing.

I think "hog turds" is a more useful description.

Posted by Rockin Robin | November 5, 2006 4:04 PM

Not that it matters but his wife looked perfectly fine to me when I saw her on the news. My personal observation is that adultery has nothing to do with the purported attractiveness or sexual availability of the spouse anyway. People cheat because of their own issues.

Posted by Donna | November 5, 2006 7:16 PM

Ah yes.....I can see it all now.....Rev Driscoll tied spread-eagle to a bed.....naked & blindfolded....being given numerous lines of crystal meth...many hits from a fresh bottle of poppers...tit clamps on...butt-hole douched & lubed....ready & willing to take it up the poop-chute nice & rough just the way he secretly craves it, from multiple anonymous big-dicked muscular gay studs.....then the next day he'll explain to his Mars Hill congregation exactly what 'Heaven' was like........

Posted by Roger | November 5, 2006 8:13 PM

Ya know? You have several issues going on with this scandal. We all know it. What I see as the issue(s) here is/are (only choosing 2)
1) Per the 1st question asked by Sam and then again by SDA later: Would not he have chosen a female hooker given the theory behind M. Driscoll's statement?
2) I had an ex who, unknowingly, had a homophobic friend (we'll "call") Tom. Tom was a decent guy and it took me about 2 years or so to see and then have to really realize that he was a homophobe and had deep seeded issues about his sexuality when it came to "stepping outside his bubble", into the public, where someone "might judge" him. It was at this "realization" point, given his reaction to something I said in public, that I choose to not be his friend any longer.--During my remaining relationship with my ex, things went well. Sort of. Long story short, I personally feel that, even beyond hypocrisy, is the issue of a man actual turning on his own kind! That "deep seeded" hypocrisy stemming from fear and hate because of some issues you have BUT you can "hump a bone" with the rest of them. Vanilla sex or not! (quoted form the Advocate interview with the "pay for play" guy) It's outright HOMOPHOBIC and, coming from a gay man! Can you sink any lower? (just my opinion folks).

I'm an optimist. Think I was born this way (and proud of it!). But I believe that it won't be in my lifetime that we see equality on a scale with "straights". I'm 41.
On a good note, I honestly see us as having gotten pretty far with the Civil Unions thing AND actually making it to the ballot/Court level at this point in our history. (again) BUT...... We're surrounded by hate and fear and apathy (not all of us by the way). And not just as gays but as people. For as long as people LIKE Haggard, gay or straight, live in a repressed state of fear that they can't be themselves? That they can't allow what really stirs their heart outside of their own "universe" for fear of what someone else (besides GOD) is going to say? And at the same time they reel such power?

If you look at the bigger picture? The straights (I prefer breeders) actually have it worse! (but I digress)

Trust me. We'll get some where as a group. People naturally like us (for the most part) and we TRY not to ruffle the feathers of others "knowing" what it's like having felt it ourselves.
I'm just saddened to see this taking place to this degree and it just reminds me that, over all the battles that haven taken place over the course of our species lifetime? We still, when it comes to "HUMAN RIGHTS"? Don't get the big picture! Being able to take the time, as a species, to truly respect and care and love another human being without judgment seems to to be out of our reach for the time being.

But we sure do talk a good story.............

One Man's Opinion.....One GAY Man!

Posted by TheRobbie | November 5, 2006 9:30 PM

What everyone seems to be missing is that Driscoll's post (like 90% of the excrable nonsense on his site) is simply self-aggrandiding bullshit: how may times does he feel the need to say he was propositioned by women in his ramblings?

The man is derrnaged egotist.

Posted by adamk | November 6, 2006 3:54 AM

oscar, benjo, dustbin,'re missing the point. Whether Mrs. Haggard has "let herself go" is irrelevant. By making a judgment about whether she has you are buying into the idea that it matters.

Posted by m3 | November 6, 2006 5:53 AM

Makes you kinda wonder what Driscoll has been up to.

Posted by John | November 6, 2006 6:00 AM

Oh yes...its easy to see that his wife has let herself go!

Posted by Marissa | November 6, 2006 7:14 AM

76. It doesn't matter here as it's just a lame excuse for closeted homosexuality, but the subject of wives and husbands letting themselves go once they've landed in the complacency of married life is worth thinking about.

Posted by Gomez | November 6, 2006 9:12 AM

i can imagine the callouses mr. haggard is going to build up thinking about how much, how often, and in what positions jesus loves him.

Posted by garth | November 6, 2006 9:46 AM

just fyi - driscoll does not speak for ministers, emerging churches, or for that matter most of the religious community with a brain in their head. most of us think his comments are as stupid as you do.

Posted by scptt | November 6, 2006 10:25 AM
driscoll does not speak for ministers, emerging churches, or for that matter most of the religious community with a brain in their head.

Did Ted Haggard, as president of the National Association of Evangelicals, speak for ministers and emerging churches?

Posted by Phil | November 6, 2006 12:20 PM

i guess when you are a minister it is everyones fault but your own.

Posted by justin | November 7, 2006 7:02 AM

This whole thing makes me nostalgic for Lon Mabon.

Posted by Saint Waldo | November 7, 2006 1:17 PM

to scptt:
I read through this whole thing, vulgar though it is, and finally, I find a member of the "emerging church" is part of this horrid exchange.

Posted by me | November 7, 2006 5:20 PM

"Here’s hoping Driscoll’s fall is modeled on Haggard’s as well."

Look, I understand that this incident, and the fundamentalist Christian response, are worth questioning and we should be discussing this-- but this last comment is completely out of line. I agree that Driscoll's statement (at least what you posted) was a bit out of line, because it didn't really get to the core of the problem, but putting theology aside, why on earth would you ever wish for a married man who is a father to cheat on his wife and start using terrible drugs?

While the Christian community is certainly embarrassed, regardless of how outspoken they are, about this; I believe the worst victims is the poor guys family.

It's one thing to report distastefully against a dogmatic structure or religious ideology, but I think collectively we can all agree that what Haggard did is sad and hypocritical, what a terrible thing for 5 children and a wife to have to deal with-- I don't care what you believe in, I'd never wish something like that on another human being.

Posted by listen | November 8, 2006 12:40 PM

I must be missing something, but I clicked on the link you posted, but did not see Driscoll's comments about letting herself go.
Here's the URL it brought me to.

Could you show me the exact page that is on his blog that has this quote you posted.

Posted by armand | November 8, 2006 1:41 PM

Armand, it's right there on that page you linked to - read bullet point 2.

If anyone is interested, People against Fundamentalism is organizing a protest to be held November 19 outside one of Mark Driscoll's church campuses. You can find more information here:

Take Action on Nov 19: Mark the Misogynist and Mars Hill

Posted by Helen | November 11, 2006 6:27 AM

Driscoll is right in that Haggard was forced by circumstances or what is known as the environment (See patnox DOT com). It is the environment that forces people in jail to engage in homosexuality. However, its wrong to blame the wife for making him gay. A better excuse would be his upbringing coupled with animal curiosity to experiment.

Posted by Dr Wesley | November 13, 2006 7:29 AM

Holy Crap-there are a lot of angry people here. Who are you upset with Haggard, Driscoll, God - or what?

and wile_e_quixote - who exactly are you defending - your post reads like the hanta virus - infecting anything and everything. Yew.

Actually - read Driscoll in context -- and he makes pretty good sense..except...even the husband of a playboy bunny will commit adultry -- it ain't the wife, the job or the religion -- it's the heart, man.

Posted by Irvingbabbet | November 19, 2006 8:06 PM

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