Wednesday, November 4, 2009
Homo Gay Marriage: Who's Ready for Round 32?
Posted by Dan Savage on Wed, Nov 4, 2009 at 1:48 PM
The marriage equality fight moves to New Jersey... where yesterday voters turned their pro-marriage equality Democratic governor John Corzine out of the office and elected anti-marriage equality Republican Chris Christie. The New Jersey legislature is about to pass a marriage equality bill, however, and Corzine has promised to sign it, defeat or no defeat. I don't know if New Jersey has a referendum process or a "people's veto" and I'm not going to check because right now I don't wanna know. Garden State Equality brought out a very effective, very moving ad today...
...but our side brought out lots of very effective, very moving ads in Maine. More info here.
UPDATE: Beth in NJ writes in comments...
We do NOT have a "people's veto" or referendum process or anything like that in New Jersey, and any proposed constitutional amendment has to be approved by 3/5ths of each house of the state legislature to even get on the ballot for the people to vote on it. If we can get a law passed and signed before Corzine leaves office, it will be very hard for the bigoted assholes to get it overturned.
1
Everyone deserves decent health coverage.
You shouldn't have to "marry" a lesbian to get it.
What GLBT who are not in a relationship?
Is health coverage only for people that hook up?
You shouldn't have to "marry" a lesbian to get it.
What GLBT who are not in a relationship?
Is health coverage only for people that hook up?
2
We do NOT have a "people's veto" or referendum process or anything like that in New Jersey, and any proposed constitutional amendment has to be approved by 3/5ths of each house of the state legislature to even get on the ballot for the people to vote on it. If we can get a law passed and signed before Corzine leaves office, it will be very hard for the bigoted assholes to get it overturned.
3
@2 is correct. also, Maine only voted to veto a statute from the leg. they did not enshrine a constitutional amendment into their law like Prop 8 did.
here is a link to the process in NJ which has to be initiated by the legislature http://www.iandrinstitute.org/New%20IRI%…
here is a link to the process in NJ which has to be initiated by the legislature http://www.iandrinstitute.org/New%20IRI%…
4
Sometimes, just sometimes, it's not about gay marriage.
Like in NJ. Which had very little to do with why people voted the way they did (the incumbent is/was a skunk).
Like in NJ. Which had very little to do with why people voted the way they did (the incumbent is/was a skunk).
5
So long as the people are allowed to exercise their right in the ballot, then I say the sooner the better.
I strongly believe that cases of impositions like in VT, CT, NH (and what could come to WA once the sheep clothing of domestic partnerships is turn into a full blown litigation for gay marriage) have served as a warning to those states yet undecided. And just like in Maine as well as every other state were the people have demanded to be allowed to voice thru the vote their opinion on this social matter it too (marriage) will be upheld in NJ.
If @ 2,3 is correct then this issue needs to be address at once in order for the political process (whatever the outcome) to be a legitimate one.
I strongly believe that cases of impositions like in VT, CT, NH (and what could come to WA once the sheep clothing of domestic partnerships is turn into a full blown litigation for gay marriage) have served as a warning to those states yet undecided. And just like in Maine as well as every other state were the people have demanded to be allowed to voice thru the vote their opinion on this social matter it too (marriage) will be upheld in NJ.
If @ 2,3 is correct then this issue needs to be address at once in order for the political process (whatever the outcome) to be a legitimate one.
7
Loveschild, we all agree that people are allowed and should be encouraged to voice their opinion at the ballot box. But we all know that when the public opinion doesn't go the way of the fundies, they lose their shit and start going about all sorts of legal (and sometimes illegal) backflips to overturn it.
I love that ad. The end has the most significant fact stated plainly that it seems so many fundies overlook:
It won't affect your marriage.
But it will mean everything to them.
If the fundies really were concerned about preserving the sanctity of marriage, they'd be more offended by people holding WoW- or Star Wars-themed marriages than two gays being married.
I love that ad. The end has the most significant fact stated plainly that it seems so many fundies overlook:
It won't affect your marriage.
But it will mean everything to them.
If the fundies really were concerned about preserving the sanctity of marriage, they'd be more offended by people holding WoW- or Star Wars-themed marriages than two gays being married.
8
Fuck the state that bore me.
I am furious at Christopher Daggett, the liberal independent that took 6 percent of the vote that would have most likely gone to the Corzine. Why do independents stay in the race when it is clear that they are taking votes from the candidate that they most align with politically.
Now we're going to have to deal with that smug-faced, hate-spewing ass bag for 4 years.
LC, I'm so excited for the day when the old folks of this country have died off and you see the people of this generation have their say. You're fighting a losing battle. (I'm not minding metaphorical kicks to gut you collect along the way.)
I am furious at Christopher Daggett, the liberal independent that took 6 percent of the vote that would have most likely gone to the Corzine. Why do independents stay in the race when it is clear that they are taking votes from the candidate that they most align with politically.
Now we're going to have to deal with that smug-faced, hate-spewing ass bag for 4 years.
LC, I'm so excited for the day when the old folks of this country have died off and you see the people of this generation have their say. You're fighting a losing battle. (I'm not minding metaphorical kicks to gut you collect along the way.)
9
Hey Hateful Bigot (#5)...is your life any different today as it looks like the awful gays are gonna be allowed to have some more legal rights?
And Hateful Bigot, how about the 47% in Maine who don't buy your garbage? Their worth is not equal to the 52% hateful bigots like yourself? I don't think they demanded one thing about being heard, but, they were.
And here, if 'we' win...Does God just hate WA State? Did God only have enough power for Maine yesterday, and just couldn't hack it here?
Oh, and Hateful Bigot, how is your life and those of you who worship whomever any different in the past 5 years that MA has had same-sex marriage? I mean, your day-to-day bigoted lives, not your spiritual, God- will-smite-me-cause-gays-are-married beliefs.
Did you go get gas and happened upon a same-sex couple with some legal rights?
Did they stop you from getting gas? Or buying groceries? Or worshipping in your bigoted church?
Oh, and Hateful Bigot. Shut the fuck up about letting people have another popularity contest about gay folks. We all know the Magic Book is more popular than us in some quarters and we all could give a crap.
Hateful Bigot. Go to Hell. And take these bigots with you.
http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/12…
And Hateful Bigot, how about the 47% in Maine who don't buy your garbage? Their worth is not equal to the 52% hateful bigots like yourself? I don't think they demanded one thing about being heard, but, they were.
And here, if 'we' win...Does God just hate WA State? Did God only have enough power for Maine yesterday, and just couldn't hack it here?
Oh, and Hateful Bigot, how is your life and those of you who worship whomever any different in the past 5 years that MA has had same-sex marriage? I mean, your day-to-day bigoted lives, not your spiritual, God- will-smite-me-cause-gays-are-married beliefs.
Did you go get gas and happened upon a same-sex couple with some legal rights?
Did they stop you from getting gas? Or buying groceries? Or worshipping in your bigoted church?
Oh, and Hateful Bigot. Shut the fuck up about letting people have another popularity contest about gay folks. We all know the Magic Book is more popular than us in some quarters and we all could give a crap.
Hateful Bigot. Go to Hell. And take these bigots with you.
http://www.bangordailynews.com/detail/12…
10
Church poisoned Americans that are str8 have no clue as to the struggles of Gay Americans (BlackWhiteYellowRedBrownBlueGreen) and their fight for civil rights and equality. It's always shocking to read the post of Hetero Americans vomiting out that inequality and bigotry are fine and dandy and part of God's will. Of course their minds have been tainted with poison from Churches that teach hate and darkness. As Jesus said," out of the heart's abundance the mouth speaks". The vomit that comes from the mouths of these individuals shows the rotting condition of their heart.
11
They are not as adorable as OUR older lesbians in a commercial, but those accents are pretty sweet.
12
chic65 - Thank you for getting to it before me. I've (unfortunately) read a lot of Loveschild's bigoted comments on the slog. I'm not sure why LC and others like her are so in the dark. Look LC, no one cares about your religion as it relates to politics. In fact, the Constitution was written in such a way that religion SHOULDN'T play any role in determining policy. The fact that you think it does just shows your ignorance. You are welcome to live your life however you want and I don't pursecute you for it, but you are seeking to do just that to others. Who made you the moral judge? Do you think that you as a religious person, and that goes for anyone of religious faith, have the market cornered on morality?
One day, LC, your own children and grandchildren (if they don't already) will be ashamed of you for your views. They will think of you as bigoted and out of touch. Some of them may even rejoice at your passing as they will know that the world just got a little less hateful without you. My grandfather was a bigoted hateful person too and I am glad that he knew how ashamed we all were of him before he passed.
One day, LC, your own children and grandchildren (if they don't already) will be ashamed of you for your views. They will think of you as bigoted and out of touch. Some of them may even rejoice at your passing as they will know that the world just got a little less hateful without you. My grandfather was a bigoted hateful person too and I am glad that he knew how ashamed we all were of him before he passed.
13
are you - You're welcome. I've got absolutely no patience for these assholes any longer. Not that I ever really had any to begin with.
As I've learned on other comment threads this past couple of weeks, and after looking at that awful Reject 'causes' page that Dominic posted...we will never change their bigoted minds. Their brainwashed by their churches. Stone walls. No reasoning whatsoever.
And, it's interesting how much I've read about the word bigot...why we should or shouldn't use it. And that's from gay people too! But, I choose to keep using it cause what else do you call them?
They're bigots. And, boy, do they HATE being called bigots.
10 minutes to more results. Shit better be good.
As I've learned on other comment threads this past couple of weeks, and after looking at that awful Reject 'causes' page that Dominic posted...we will never change their bigoted minds. Their brainwashed by their churches. Stone walls. No reasoning whatsoever.
And, it's interesting how much I've read about the word bigot...why we should or shouldn't use it. And that's from gay people too! But, I choose to keep using it cause what else do you call them?
They're bigots. And, boy, do they HATE being called bigots.
10 minutes to more results. Shit better be good.
14
@7 The pro-traditional marriage/family side is not the one bringing this issues to the courts or lobbying rogue legislators who seek to silence the people. We are the ones telling them, you know, let the people exercise their right in the ballot box and decide what values they want in their communities and enshrined in their government. That's our foundation. That's democracy in action.
Knat, believe it or not I'm all for the above ad, I don't agree with it, but I'm all for them and you making your case to the people of NJ. Likewise I can only hope that you feel the same for our side making our case to them and not obstructing a democratic referendum process by the people.
If you truly believe that people need to be allowed and should be encouraged to voice their opinion at the ballot box then you and i can disagree, have a polite debate and at the end of the day let the people decide without threatening to further litigate like the gay side usually does, behaving like sore losers (that's why constitutional amendments have been brought up).
The people of NJ (as all states) have shown that they want to take an active role in deciding how their government works and that includes how their institutions function and whether or not they need to be redefined. I know that I need to start focusing on this upcoming battle starting from tomorrow on to contribute in whatever small way I can.
Knat, believe it or not I'm all for the above ad, I don't agree with it, but I'm all for them and you making your case to the people of NJ. Likewise I can only hope that you feel the same for our side making our case to them and not obstructing a democratic referendum process by the people.
If you truly believe that people need to be allowed and should be encouraged to voice their opinion at the ballot box then you and i can disagree, have a polite debate and at the end of the day let the people decide without threatening to further litigate like the gay side usually does, behaving like sore losers (that's why constitutional amendments have been brought up).
The people of NJ (as all states) have shown that they want to take an active role in deciding how their government works and that includes how their institutions function and whether or not they need to be redefined. I know that I need to start focusing on this upcoming battle starting from tomorrow on to contribute in whatever small way I can.
18
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
Sounds alot like some of the people who have posted on this board and are in support of "gay marriage": Obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinion.
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices.
Sounds alot like some of the people who have posted on this board and are in support of "gay marriage": Obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinion.
20
Yes, Hateful Bigot, people should have let Plessy v. Ferguson stand rather than being whiny sore losers.
Hey, here's an idea: let's put your civil rights up for a popular vote in Forsyth County.
Hey, here's an idea: let's put your civil rights up for a popular vote in Forsyth County.
21
I'd like to think that Loveschild is simply playing devil's advocate... There's no such thing as a 'polite discussion' that ends with people losing their dignity & their basic civil rights. There just isn't. If you people really had the faith you claim you do it wouldn't matter who did what because your god would protect you. How ironic then that you run to the government to cover your sorry ass. My rights are not a matter of opinion. Religion is a choice. Sexuality isn't.
22
Hey Hateful Bigot and 'friend' (Hateful Bigot 2 from here on in):
You both getting to vote on ME.
Just plain unfair when YOU are not affected one IOTA by what I do in my life. But, by allowing you to vote on MY life, yes, MY life...you get to affect it. In the negative sense.
If these amendments, referendums, initiatives said 'If you support the law just passed which says that same-sex marriages are legal, you will be taxed 30% more, or we will firebomb your house"...then sure, I can see you voting against the interests of others because you are directly affected.
However, no one, let me repeat, NO ONE is affected by two people marrying except the TWO PEOPLE MARRYING.
Bigot (seems like you neglected to copy and paste the final sentence)
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
I repeat. Hateful Bigot(s).
You both getting to vote on ME.
Just plain unfair when YOU are not affected one IOTA by what I do in my life. But, by allowing you to vote on MY life, yes, MY life...you get to affect it. In the negative sense.
If these amendments, referendums, initiatives said 'If you support the law just passed which says that same-sex marriages are legal, you will be taxed 30% more, or we will firebomb your house"...then sure, I can see you voting against the interests of others because you are directly affected.
However, no one, let me repeat, NO ONE is affected by two people marrying except the TWO PEOPLE MARRYING.
Bigot (seems like you neglected to copy and paste the final sentence)
Main Entry: big·ot
Pronunciation: \ˈbi-gət\
Function: noun
Etymology: French, hypocrite, bigot
Date: 1660
: a person obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance.
I repeat. Hateful Bigot(s).
23
Oh, and Hateful Bigot, you say this:
"The people of NJ (as all states) have shown that they want to take an active role in deciding how their government works"
Yes, it's called voting for your representatives, for that is what they are elected for. To represent the electorate.
But you bigots love to second-guess them when they are according benefits and legal rights to a group that you don't approve of.
Hateful Bigot.
"The people of NJ (as all states) have shown that they want to take an active role in deciding how their government works"
Yes, it's called voting for your representatives, for that is what they are elected for. To represent the electorate.
But you bigots love to second-guess them when they are according benefits and legal rights to a group that you don't approve of.
Hateful Bigot.
24
when the queers here get all "hey marriage is a Civil Right!" we just want to howl- it's so goshdarn funny...
25
This is ridiculous. The point is you shouldn't get to vote on things that have no effect on your life. My marriage would not effect a fundie, would it? Your marriage does not affect me, so I stay out of the high divorce rates.
And as a huge star ears fan there could be no more sacred a marriage (this excludes the new ones).
And as a huge star ears fan there could be no more sacred a marriage (this excludes the new ones).
26
Hey, what if a majority of people got together to vote to take away Loveschild's rights? Then it would be wrong, right? By the way Loveschild, I realize you're not interested in facts, but it's people who defend your moronic, prejudiced, and poorly thought-out positions who are the "rogue politicians". You know, as in Going Rogue. How'd that work out for you in New York?
27
Loveschild, we will continue to bring this to the courts, as denying us equal rights is unconstitutional. Make no mistake, you will lose in the long run.
28
Ah. So this is why the Democrats were so eager for Mainers (Maineinites?) to start working on New Jersey.
/snark
/snark
29
I am gay and I oppose gay marriage. Sorry but it is not a civil rights issue and the very concept of same sex marriage is absurd. I am proud of what I am, but marriage still means a man and a woman.
30
@8 polls showed over and over and over and over that Daggett's supporters were mainly Christie backers or "anyone but Corzine" folks. Daggett may be a social liberal, but before he ran as an independent he was a Republican and served in the administrations of several Repub. Gov's.
Also, this bill is super close to passing here in Jersey. No one really seems to have any problem with it, there's been no big deal made about it. All we have to do is just make sure it gets passed by the end of the session. I wouldn't worry.
Now the medical marijuana bill moving thru the legislature that's another issue...
Also, this bill is super close to passing here in Jersey. No one really seems to have any problem with it, there's been no big deal made about it. All we have to do is just make sure it gets passed by the end of the session. I wouldn't worry.
Now the medical marijuana bill moving thru the legislature that's another issue...
31
You canNOT always trust the majority when a minority's rights are up for vote. 50% approval is not enough validation to abuse a smaller segment of the population. What if there was a vote where 10% of the population would be used for slavery to benefit the other 90%? If majority vote passed on that, would it be right? Would you dare to call the new slaves "sore losers" if they protested? ...
The US government was designed with checks and balances written into it so that everyone is represented, even minorities. This is why we allow the court to check the popular vote and vice versa, it's not about one group having total power. When there is a dispute like the one over marriage in the end we turn to our founding documents like the Constitution, and if a practice violates that, a suit will bring it to the Supreme Court until the situation is corrected. That is what is happening now as Ted Olson brings Prop 8 to the Supreme Court in appeal, due to its violation of the Due Process Clause, the Equal Protection Clause, and more.
The US government was designed with checks and balances written into it so that everyone is represented, even minorities. This is why we allow the court to check the popular vote and vice versa, it's not about one group having total power. When there is a dispute like the one over marriage in the end we turn to our founding documents like the Constitution, and if a practice violates that, a suit will bring it to the Supreme Court until the situation is corrected. That is what is happening now as Ted Olson brings Prop 8 to the Supreme Court in appeal, due to its violation of the Due Process Clause, the Equal Protection Clause, and more.
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