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Friday, July 25, 2014

SL Letter of the Day: Anal Entitlement

Posted by on Fri, Jul 25, 2014 at 12:21 PM

I am on vacation for all of July. But I've invited Mistress Matisse to handle the Savage Love letters of the day. Mistress Matisse is a writer, a dominatrix and a sex worker’s rights activist. She has a blog here and twitter here. The archive of her Stranger column, Control Tower, is here. Mistress Matisse will be answering your questions all week.

I am a guy who has been in a relationship with a great gal for over a decade. We have a strong emotional connection, but over the past couple of years our physical connection has withered. A lot of this can probably be put down to work and financial stress on both our parts; but I also more and more feel a lot of emotional conflict regarding sex that makes me avoid it. You see, I'd like to try anal. It wasn't something I'd even really considered in past relationships, but around seven years ago it seems to have just clicked in my head. I've been very open, honest, and patient - as I understand it is an imposition - but I've gotten a mess of mixed signals regarding the topic over the years since I first brought it up. For the first few months after mentioning it, the reaction was defensive. There were lots of interspersed jabs, even outside sexual conversation, in the vein of: "why would you want to [buy lunch] for someone you want to fuck in the ass?!" We had an open conversation about it later and she explained that she had one bad experience in the past (the old no-warning-tally-ho! method) and I can totally empathize with that. She explained that she'd be open to some experimenting so long as we left things at her pace, which seemed totally reasonable.

The problem is that over six years later, that's still where things stand. We've experimented a bit with a finger or two and moderate sized plugs, but nothing further. It's not an every-time sort of thing, but it's always me who has to suggest doing this stuff and I guess I see that as her politely conceding, rather than actually enjoying. When we've talked about things, I've always tried to offer her a free out to say "Sorry, this just isn't for me" but she insists every time that she enjoys it. But after the years I'm just worn down and even thinking of sex makes me twist up in knots in my head: without a definitive "It ain't happening" I can't really put this out of my mind, and after being shot down hundreds of times when I suggest maybe we give it a try soon, I feel bitter every time my brain thinks that maybe this time she'll say yes.

I feel rejected and my feelings blatantly disregarded, having been in this position for so many years - but I also can't tell if that's unfair of me. I feel like if I press the issue, she'd probably give in for a one-off grudgefuck, but I don't want to be that guy who uses guilt or pity as sexual leverage - it feels wrong. And if I do confront her and then turn down this sort of begrudging "ok fine let's get it over with" go-around, I'm sure that'll send mixed signals.

Am I wrong to feel this way? Is this just an unfair sense of entitlement? Because it's destroyed my sex life and I need a reality check.

Have Extended Love Problem

Mistress Matisse's response after the jump...

Okay, HELP, I hear you saying that you need to be told, clearly and openly, that your partner doesn’t want you to fuck her in the ass. I can assist you with that: your partner doesn’t want you to fuck her in the ass. Now that you’ve heard that, do you think you will be able to put the issue out of your mind and move on?

I doubt it, because communication is not the real problem here. I agree, stating one’s sexual boundaries clearly is the best practice. But even if she isn’t saying this exactly the way you’re so indignantly telling yourself she should, she is giving you signals about her level of (dis)interest in receiving anal penetration. Being open, honest and patient? Those are good things, HELP. We could have a conversation about whether or not that’s really how you’ve approached this. Borrowing someone’s car for a week? That’s “an imposition”. Having someone’s dick up your ass when you don’t want it there is something really quite different.

But even giving you all the possible benefit of the doubt, just being a baseline decent guy is not a guarantee that you’re going to get absolutely positively everything you want sexually. No, your feelings are actually not being blatantly disregarded, because wanting to put your dick in someone’s ass is not an emotional state. What you are really saying is “I’m mad, because I feel entitled to anal sex, but my girlfriend’s asshole has friendzoned me!”

The real question is: why is putting your dick in a place where your girlfriend doesn’t want it so important? I don’t think that any sexual activity has inherent meaning – sex is what we make it be. But you seem really invested in controlling not only whether or not your girlfriend has things in her ass, but how she experiences that. The way you tell it, nothing about how she’s handling this is okay. When you initiate and she consents to some anal penetration, she’s not doing it for the right reasons, and she’s not enjoying it the way you think she should, so it’s not good enough for you. And when she doesn’t initiative it – well, you’re not happy about that, either. Perhaps your partner is not being more direct in her communication because she doesn’t see a way to respond in a way that doesn’t just make things worse. Other than, of course, being sincerely eager for you to fuck her up the ass, which isn’t how she feels.

Your girlfriend not wanting to be fucked in the ass is not what has destroyed your sex life. I don’t know what the real issue here is. Maybe there’s another problem with your relationship that you’re avoiding examining. Or maybe she’s a good partner to you, and you’re letting an unfair (and decidedly unsexy) level of resentment cloud your judgment. But either way, anal sex is not the answer to your problem, so you need to get your head out of her ass and get over it.


Comments (50) RSS

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Eudaemonic 1
There were lots of interspersed jabs, even outside sexual conversation, in the vein of: "why would you want to [buy lunch] for someone you want to fuck in the ass?!"

Get a new girlfriend, this one's defective. Partners who think there's a kind of sex that is incompatible with love need to be returned to the lot.

The reason for the mixed signals is because admitting that you have incompatible desires might make you act the way people dating incompatible partners are supposed to act. I mean, look at what you write, dude:

I feel rejected and my feelings blatantly disregarded, having been in this position for so many years - but I also can't tell if that's unfair of me.

This isn't the sign of someone who is in a relationship with the right person. If you're questioning whether you have the right to your feelings, that's a really bad sign. Get out, get some self-respect. This will mean learning to ignore people who say you don't deserve any.
Posted by Eudaemonic on July 25, 2014 at 12:34 PM · Report this
AFinch 2
Matisse is certainly correct, your girlfriend has given you the answer: a passive-aggressive "no" (which is, yes, but not now and probably not ever).

@1 is right: you are just incompatible. It's not a matter of you feeling entitled to her ass, it's that you want ass in your life, and this person doesn't want to provide it. Find someone who will. I'd bet dollars to donuts this isn't the only tar-baby-like death-by-a-thousand-cuts incompatibility in your relationship or even just in your sex life, and those are the real reasons your sex life has gone to hell.

Good luck.
Posted by AFinch on July 25, 2014 at 12:52 PM · Report this
Reverse Polarity 3
I don't necessarily agree with all of Mistress Matisse's advice, but I do agree that your wife doesn't want you to fuck her in the ass.

You seem to really want a clear, verbal, yes or no answer, and she isn't giving you that. But if you've experimented with fingers and plugs and whatnot for many years, and she has never responded positively or initiated other anal play, then she very obviously isn't into it. She's giving you a very clear non-verbal 'no', and you're not getting it. She doesn't like it, and probably never will. She's consenting to let you try it occasionally when you push it, because she's trying to be a little GGG maybe, but she doesn't like it. For whatever reason, she's having a hard time verbally saying no, but her desires seem pretty obvious to me.

Stop waiting for a definitive verbal "no". Assume ass is off the table. Now... where do you want to go from here?
Posted by Reverse Polarity on July 25, 2014 at 12:56 PM · Report this
As Dan always says, Gentlemen First! You want to fuck her in the ass? Offer to let her fuck you in the ass first so that she sees that it won't hurt. Oh, you don't want to be fucked in the ass? Sorry, bud, neither does she.
Posted by Schweighsr on July 25, 2014 at 12:58 PM · Report this
sperifera 5
@4 - We can close the comments on this one now. You just said what needed to be said.
Posted by sperifera on July 25, 2014 at 1:02 PM · Report this
Find someone new. You two have already grown apart. This is just the icing on the cake.
Posted by Hacksaw on July 25, 2014 at 1:08 PM · Report this
Not even half the gays out there like to take it in the ass
(Dan doesn't, for example) why expect your girlfriend too?
Posted by you are expecting too much on July 25, 2014 at 1:09 PM · Report this
Eudaemonic 8
@4: I sometimes like eating cake. I have no interest in being eaten by cake. Why did you and #5 feel the need to pretend that he's not accepting a no?

Did you just read the letter long enough to establish that he's male, and then decide to skip right ahead to the condemnation?
Posted by Eudaemonic on July 25, 2014 at 1:18 PM · Report this
seandr 9
Dude, Matisse doesn't get where you're coming from. Try this instead:

Of course you want to try anal sex. Most men do. It's a new experience, a new chance for intimacy with your woman, and a way to spice up your sex life.

And it's understandable that you're upset that the woman who may be your life partner won't go there with you, because that means it's never going to happen for you. You're mourning the loss of that experience, and that feels like shit.

As for her waffling, a lot of women really suck at direct communication, and sometimes that can be maddening, especially when it's about something that's important to you. She's having it both ways - she doesn't want anal sex, but she doesn't want to be the one who doesn't want anal sex. And she's resorting to indirect jabs like that bizarre comment about buying lunch. As a result, you're stuck in an emotional tarpit that leaves you feeling invalidated and confused and guilty and angry.

Here's the deal - as millions of straight men who've been though similar situations can tell you, anal sex is not going to happen with this woman. Ever. The first step towards getting out of the tarpit is for you to accept that fact along with all of the feelings it brings up in you - sadness, anger, resentment, whatever, just give yourself permission to feel what you feel.

That will give you some clarity about what to do next - e.g., break up, hire a professional who advertises "greek", find a sexual adventure she is willing to try, or just accept the loss of that experience from your life and focus on the experiences that are available to you.
Posted by seandr on July 25, 2014 at 1:29 PM · Report this
seandr 10
@4: LW could let his woman fuck his ass with a fire hydrant and that wouldn't change a thing.
Posted by seandr on July 25, 2014 at 1:30 PM · Report this
Fnarf 11
@4, perhaps he should cut out the middle(wo)man and go fuck himself in the ass.
Posted by Fnarf on July 25, 2014 at 1:32 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 12
What everyone else said (well, mostly everyone else).

She's never going to let you fuck her ass. Never.

If that's a deal breaker, then tell your wife that.


@4, It's a nice sentiment, and he should give it a shot, but I'd bet the farm if she doesn't want to get fucked in the ass, offering to let her fuck his ass first isn't going to magically change her mind.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on July 25, 2014 at 1:35 PM · Report this
@12 The point of the offer isn't that it's going to make her come around (though it might), it's that it will hopefully allow him to realize that not everyone wants to be fucked in the ass - including, probably, himself. He's not entitled to it, and neither is she.
Posted by hereiswheremynamegoes on July 25, 2014 at 2:02 PM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 14
Expensive jewelry might work.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on July 25, 2014 at 2:09 PM · Report this
seandr 15
@13: He's not entitled to it

Entitlement is a red herring.

People want what they want in a relationship, and they become disappointed when their partner doesn't come through.
Posted by seandr on July 25, 2014 at 2:19 PM · Report this
biffp 16
Great response from Matisse. He's being an ass. She'd probably let him get it out of his system with someone else if he asked.
Posted by biffp on July 25, 2014 at 2:31 PM · Report this
@14--I agree, and disagree with the advice and the comments. I never wanted anal on my own, not for years, but I gave it up willingly because I knew how much my partner desired it. His desire was the turn on, not the actual experience. I liked making that sacrifice for his pleasure.

Now, after taking it up the ass for years I learned to enjoy it over time, but not once did I enjoy fingers or a toy there. The LW's GF is farther along with anal pleasure than I ever got, I think he should go for it, with the understanding that his GF is enduring it through submission, rather than through a burning desire to have something hard up her butt. Diamond earrings at the very least.
Posted by Marrena on July 25, 2014 at 2:36 PM · Report this
unknown_entity 18
@9 - Take over for Matisse. Seriously, you just wrote one of the BEST comments on any SLLOTD, especially considering how asshole-ish Matisse was to the guy.

This kind of explicit YES but passive NO can be incredibly damaging to people. At a level like this, it is painful to one person, but ramp it up and it becomes abusive. Ironically, Matisse was featured in an SL from July 9th about one of those ramped up situations.…
For those who did not read it a former dom was dating a guy (a former client no less) who had told her he was OK with her previous sex work, then promptly used it to shame, control, and isolate her from her friends at every opportunity. On a scale of 1 to 10, that is at least a 9, while HELP's situation is at most a 2.

Ergo, 9's comments are much more appropriate: acknowledging HELP's frustration, agree that the passive NO is what his partner is really saying, and how he should move forward or end the relationship.
Posted by unknown_entity on July 25, 2014 at 2:38 PM · Report this
I like what seandr #9 said. But I would add this. Your s.o. is using the excuse (yes, I said "excuse") that someone else in her now-distant past surprised her into giving him some and she didn't like it. She could be traumatized or she could be the kind of person who tries an activity with one not very skillful partner and decides all her partners, no matter how much they've demonstrated otherwise, will be similarly unskilled. You ain't gettin' any, even if she won't come out and say it. (And I'll admit that I really, really can't stand the passive-aggressiveness of all that.) Maybe it's time to move on. Lots of people, including people of the female persuasion, do like anal and are willing to put up with a little initial clumsiness for the joys that skill (borne of practice) brings. Go ye forth and find one; practice; hone your skills and revel in a new mastery of an old art. But give up on ever getting it from Ms. Passive-Aggressive.
Posted by Calpete on July 25, 2014 at 2:43 PM · Report this
Soupytwist 20
Why am I not surprised that LW's sense of entitlement is what's getting the sympathy? His girlfriend has been GGG. Has LW? I doubt it.
Posted by Soupytwist on July 25, 2014 at 3:00 PM · Report this
@20, I'm not sure she's GGG, but I agree with you that the LW seems to have no knowledge of or interest in whatever gets his partner off.
Posted by EricaP on July 25, 2014 at 3:18 PM · Report this
disintegrator 22
He's bored sexually, wants sexual variety, and is mad that he is only allowed one sexual partner, especially if she won't do all the fun things he wants to do.

Or maybe I'm just projecting...
Posted by disintegrator on July 25, 2014 at 3:59 PM · Report this
I also found Matisse's advice spectacularly unhelpful here. Thanks @9.

He's discovering- very belatedly- that the price of admission with this woman is not only no anal, but no real interest in fulfilling his interests sexually. Anal is not that high of a bar to clear, said as a straight man who happily takes it up the ass.

As he pointed out, she's done it with somebody else (badly). Which comes back to the trust thing; he takes it as a deep insult that somebody who was theoretically less important to her made it into her butt and now she doesn't want anal.

He didn't use the word wife, he didn't mention kids. He's feeling unconnected from her. I'm wondering what's going well with his relationship. At the very least, he should go have an affair and remind himself what it's like to have sex with somebody who wants to have sex with him. At worst, he should GTFO of this relationship. I recommend the affair first because it might give him a release valve of good sex to give him more time to figure things out with the lady (but really I don't expect anything to change with her). And it's going to be an affair; somebody who won't give an honest no to anal will not be giving an honest yes to the hall pass question.
Posted by AdamWashington on July 25, 2014 at 4:02 PM · Report this
seandr 24
@EricaP: I agree with you that the LW seems to have no knowledge of or interest in whatever gets his partner off.

You know this how?
Posted by seandr on July 25, 2014 at 4:22 PM · Report this
This doesn't really make sense to me. They're in bed he says baby can I lube up that sweet ass and stick it in and she say a) eh, I'm not into it or b) go for it. Question answered no?
Or does he require that she beg for it?
Posted by chi_type on July 25, 2014 at 5:04 PM · Report this
@24 wouldn't it strengthen his case if he explained his efforts to get her to associate her orgasm with anal play? Many women find their inner clits are stimulated by anal play, but the LW doesn't say anything about that.
Posted by EricaP on July 26, 2014 at 1:13 AM · Report this
Philophile 27
Just get over your kink? This must be about something other than anal sex? I don't agree. I do agree that he is douchey for being pushy about this without showing any sign that he's very giving/versatile in bed. At least he should have offered to go first. @4 nailed it.

He's been shot down about this a lot. He knows that it's beyond her comfort zone. He's pissed or sad or something that she won't go further faster beyond her comfort zone. He says nothing about how he's gone beyond his own comfort zone for her.

If she sees him enjoy it, and feels what it's like to peg a guy, it's going to make the whole thing less scary. Not sure why @9 passes this off and goes straight to breaking up or cheating or getting over it.

Additionally, going through a kink list and learning what types of things really turn her on, and trading off on fantasy fulfillment may help if she won't peg him. Hopefully after a decade they already know lots of buttons to press during more vanilla hands/mouth/intercourse types of sex that they can incorporate into pegging and anal. I was also really surprised that rimming wasn't mentioned.

@1 Bad sex is pretty incompatible with love. Sex that does not feel good physically or mentally. She probably knows that anal can feel good physically, so she must not like the idea. I agree with MM and the comments that LWs approach could have something to do with this along with her past. But I hope that you are not saying that sexual boundaries are unacceptable, or anything goes or she's defective. Hopefully you are complaining that she's implying that no one would enjoy anal, or projecting her discomfort.
Posted by Philophile on July 26, 2014 at 2:25 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 28
I'm definitely with Matisse on this one. For those who are supportive of HELP, please read his letter again. He admits that, by not getting exactly the kind of sex he wants, he's now avoiding ALL sex more often. Oh, no, NO pressure at all for his partner to give in. I believe Dan has often suggested that, if there's some sex act you'd like to try, mention it once or twice. If there's no interest, then STFU. Just because HELP says he's being patient doesn't mean he really is.

Does anyone else get the idea that both HELP and his partner are older? [Makes me wish that age/gender were required on all posts.] He calls her a "great gal". Unless "gal" is idiomatic to a particular region, to me it sounds like what a man of a certain age calls a woman because, when he was younger, the world was made up of girls and men. If she's too old to be a girl, then she's automatically a gal.

I think my assumption of her age might be aided by her association of anal sex to a loss of respect. Otherwise the lunch-buying comment doesn't make any sense.

HELP is not winning me over by only talking about what HE wants to do in bed. Has he encouraged her to explore? His being GGG would be far more of a barometer to more sexual variety than having her peg him. And, even if she's being passive aggressive, he's doubly so – because he's actively avoiding sex. Nope, no pressure at all.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on July 26, 2014 at 3:51 AM · Report this
bracted pedicularis 29
Anal can hurt a lot, especially if the guy is girthy. For women (and men) that don't associate it with sexiness, there is little to no impetus to go through the pain and rigor (because it requires quite a bit of training) only to have some weird and not sexy (to you) action up your behind.

The motivation to go through with it comes completely from the actions of the partner who wants it, who must do everything in their power to make the receiver feel safe and loved and sexy. He has to earn it! He's not going to earn it by begrudging her attempts to be GGG. He's not going to earn it by withholding sex because she just won't directly tell him no anal. That's such bullshit.

She may eventually let him do it once. She may find it's her favorite thing. She may never come around. But he's going about it the totally wrong way.

Grow a prefrontal cortex, LW, or do her a favor and break up with her.
Posted by bracted pedicularis on July 26, 2014 at 10:07 AM · Report this
@ 14, 17 - Seriously? If you enjoy submitting to your partner in that way then great for you, but if the LW's girlfriend doesn't (and she doesn't exactly seeming to be jumping up and down with excitement over the prospect), or if for whatever reason she experiences greater physical or mental discomfort in connection with anal penetration than do you, she isn't required to go for it just because she's a gal and her guy can buy her things.

I agree that, in fairness to her partner, she should be more direct; I agree that it's great to be GGG whenever the activity in question isn't something that's going to actively cause you distress. But the assumption that the sexual subordination of female partners in hetero relationships is something that's owed if the guy in question can offer Expensive Stuff is regressive and gross. There's nothing wrong with making a voluntary choice to trade sex for gifts, or to do actual sex work, for that matter. There is something very wrong with assuming that women's sexuality must be for sale regardless of whether the individual woman in question has actually made that choice, or that men's superior access to material resources outside the bedroom translates into some kind of presumptive right to inequality inside. I think having a serious conversation about it, offering to fulfill some of her fantasies in return, and accepting that the subject is off the table if she doesn't go for it seems like a much safer and more egalitarian approach to the issue.
Posted by NotForSale on July 26, 2014 at 10:38 AM · Report this
I'm a little stunned there's so much support for Matisse's response. If this letter were from a woman talking about how her husband won't go down on her, would Matisse really have suggested that the LW was being controlling and felt entitled to use her partner sexually however she wants?

Of course not. Clear double standard.
Posted by rockstatic on July 26, 2014 at 10:42 AM · Report this
@30 I am a feminist and a dominant (now). In a sense even my earlier submission to anal was more about me controlling my partner, because he was into it so much. I enjoyed the feeling of power.

I'm not saying that LW's GF is "required to go for it" just because a pair of diamond earrings might be offered, but it sounds like the LW hasn't even tried this approach. If he's waiting for her enthusiastically all on her own to beg him for anal, that's not going to happen. Pretty much everyone here agrees on that. I'm just saying that before he throws in the towel on anal or on their relationship that he should try a different approach and see what happens. It would require him to put himself in a vulnerable position and show his desperation through expensive gifts, and he might not want to do that. But if he's okay with that, what does he have to lose?

Diamond earrings or some other expensive gift is not the same as cash. Her sexuality isn't "for sale" with the exchange of gifts.
Posted by Marrena on July 26, 2014 at 11:30 AM · Report this
Tizzle 33
@31 Oral is standard (return to the lot if missing). Anal is not.
Posted by Tizzle on July 26, 2014 at 12:29 PM · Report this
Even if she did bend over for a pair of diamond earrings, would that be what this guy wants? It seems possible the LW would take umbrage with it, because it isn't a freely volunteered passion for anal, but a concession she's making to him.

As someone who spent their childhood as a girl in the South, I can tell you why she's apologizing and insisting she enjoys this thing she seems to despise. This woman doesn't want to hurt the LW's feelings, since anal sex is clearly very important to him. Yet her comment about lunch belies her own feelings of disgust. She's worried (rightly, perhaps) that the LW will dump her if she doesn't get with the program, so she plays along and tries to avoid the subject.

So anal's not her thing; for reasons X,Y, and Z they make her uncomfortable. And that's not so foreign as the bros in the comments would have you think. I've certainly dated men who were uncomfortable with the idea of getting fucked in the butt- even if they were totally down to fuck mine. The straight guy with an anal phobia is practically a stereotype!

I agree with the commenters that the relationship might be headed for splitsville, if the LW's anal fetish is really really about anal sex; and not the taboo, or the difficulty of it, or (and I hope this isn't the case) he wants anal sooo bad precisely because she won't give it.

Posted by rowing@dawn on July 26, 2014 at 12:55 PM · Report this
@31 I don't think gender plays a role here. If I'd have read this letter as written by a woman who's been bugging her man about fucking him up the ass *for years* ignoring earlier statements by the hubbie on doing it as his pace, I'd consider her a pushy asshole (tee-hee), too.
Posted by Cuntry on July 26, 2014 at 12:59 PM · Report this
Sorry Matisse, but after 3 fantastic responses you really screwed the pooch with your response to HELP.

Taking his letter at face value, the girlfriend is, frankly, a lying, slut shaming bitch, he has every right to feel resentful, and he is getting very close to DTMFA territory.

He approached her with a new (and not that extreme) request respectfully and patiently, and she LIED through her teeth. Even if she thought she would eventually come around, she needed to 'fess up 5 and a half years ago when she made up her mind.

And her "why would you want to [buy lunch] for someone you want to fuck in the ass?!" is slut shaming, pure and simple. That is never okay in a relationship, especially when the request has been made respectfully.

This coulda, woulda, shoulda been a simple price-of-admission situation at the beginning. He asks, she says "not gonna happen" and he decides if he wants to continue the relationship. He knows the price of admission (anal is off the table) and he knows that he will have to decide how important anal is to him.

But the girlfriend lied to keep him around, and then kept jerking him around, hopefully shaming him until he stopped asking. And if she did ever consent, she would almost certainly have made it so awkward and uncomfortable for him that it couldn't possible be enjoyable and he'd know to never ask again. That's what happen when a dishonest partner can't just say, "um, really not interested in going there," and then strings the partner along and manipulates the situation.

Now, if he decides the price is too high and wants out, he looks like the asshole for thinking anal sex and sexual honesty is so important. And worst of all, Matisse, your response pointed out to HELP that his girlfriend is lair, but excuses it and continues the shaming by telling him to "get over it"!

What could have been a simple "maybe we're not so well suited for each other" situation 6 years ago will now be either an ugly breakup or will build so much resentment--not just for the lack of anal, but for the dishonesty and manipulation that he will be reminded of every time he want to go anal--that the guy cheats.

If this guy dumps her, I think he'd be totally justified. If he decides he can pay the price of admission, she owes him a huge apology and possibly a hall pass for some outside anal.
Posted by PJM on July 26, 2014 at 1:53 PM · Report this
Jesus fucking christ people. NO anal sex is NOT like other typical sex acts. We are talking an involuntary muscle that only relaxes when there is genuine pleasure/relaxation. There is no fooling the ass. Otherwise, it is fucking PAINFUL. What kind of people think that he is entitled to hurt her when it clearly isn't what she wants? From personal experience with people who were not good matches for me in the anal department AND as someone who enjoys a good bdsm beating: unsexy unwanted anal sex can be just an painful and awful and intimate as an undesired slap across the face. Just because anal has become this normalized (which I am happy about) does not negate its physical realities. Even if her lack of relaxation and enjoyment is only coming from some antiquated hangups.
Posted by olechka on July 26, 2014 at 4:29 PM · Report this
Philophile 38
LOL to all who care so much that she relax her butt.. but anything in his butt is silly and unnecessary and not the same at all! Please accept diamond earrings instead and keep his ass untouched!

I'm going the opposite way. I think that after years of being pushy and one sided about ass play, they should only have pegging sex for a month or two. Maybe 10 times. Once she builds up some confidence that she can satisfy him anally, and sees and feels that it's sexy not mean, she should agree to open her ass for his dick as well. If his girth is above 5", or maybe even if he's not, she should have a toy in her butt while she jills off for a week or so first. Since she'll also be trying to forget her anal accident, a sign or phrase for stop moving or get out right now may also be helpful, so she feels in full control in case it starts to remind her of her past.
Posted by Philophile on July 27, 2014 at 10:04 AM · Report this
@32 ok, fair enough. To be clear, I think you can be a feminist and still enjoy whatever kind of sex you like, as long as you've thought about it a little and made an informed *individual* choice. I just do think there's still a set of mainstream cultural expectations around female sexuality according to which those of us with lady parts are expected to be a) naturally submissive and b) primarily interested in sex as a means of access to non-sex benefits conferred by men (Stuff, status, emotional intimacy, what have you). As long as individual women are conscious of this, and conscious of the fact that they as women have every right to reject that model, I don't think there is anything wrong with deciding "hey, submission in bed turns me on, I'd like to try that (in a freely chosen and negotiated manner) sometimes."

But because these cultural expectations are still present and really quite pervasively applied to women who AREN'T sexually submissive, or at least haven't chosen or agreed to be submissive in the particular situation in question, I'm very wary of any suggestion of submission (or of transactional sex) as a normative model of female sexuality - either as a way for women (who are not self-identified submissives) to enjoy sex acts that they find prima facie unpleasant or painful, or, especially, as a way for heterosexual men to understand their partners' thinking about sex. ("I really don't want to do this, but I'm not comfortable saying no because a good woman should accept suffering for her man." "It's OK for me to insist on sex acts she finds painful or degrading because she'll get off on submitting to me? Yippee!" "Who does she think she is to say no in bed when I'm the one who just bought her a new car?" I know that's not what you meant, but it is the way a hell of a lot of people actually think.) If the submission = hot link isn't present in the individual woman's brain, it could just increase her feelings of discomfort in her relationship and difficulty finding the confidence to clearly articulate her own desires and boundaries - which, to me, sounds like the main problem in this relationship in the first place.

As to what he has to lose? She could feel even more pressured than she already does, or betrayed when her thought process goes from "oh, how thoughtful" to "what does he want in return?" She could just feel insulted at the thought that there's anything she would do out of love for shiny trinkets that she wouldn't do out of love and affection for her partner of many years. I would be.

Agree that the anal sex / lunch comment was stupid, but that was years ago and sounds most like the result of being sheltered or ignorant about sex. Suspect that she was hoping she could learn to like it or find it less painful, and thereby work her way up to it, but never really did and perhaps keeps telling herself that maybe someday ... because it's easier than saying no and facing disappointing her partner. Agree that this is exactly the wrong approach, and she ought to be more direct - they're both partly in the wrong.
Posted by NotForSale on July 27, 2014 at 11:06 AM · Report this
biju 40
When it comes to letters like this one, I'm sure its very enlightening to hear the same story from the other side...
Posted by biju on July 27, 2014 at 11:59 AM · Report this
@38, rather than setting up a special phrase to ask him to slow or stop (and why not use "slow" and "stop" to communicate those desires?), many people like to have the bottom squatting on top, so she would be in control of the rate and depth of penetration.
Posted by EricaP on July 27, 2014 at 9:56 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 42
@4: "As Dan always says, Gentlemen First! You want to fuck her in the ass? Offer to let her fuck you in the ass first so that she sees that it won't hurt. Oh, you don't want to be fucked in the ass? Sorry, bud, neither does she."

I never understand why people bother with this childish, passive-aggressive, and insincere "offer". I believe Dan suggests it to dissuade the man, not to force the hand of the woman.
Posted by undead ayn rand on July 28, 2014 at 5:46 PM · Report this
sissoucat 43

It's on par with "jump off this cliff for the love of me" being answered with "hey, you jump first".

If the guy jumps, then he proves he thinks it's safe enough. So you can either proceed with caution and have some hope not to get hurt, or decide that you don't have his physical prowess, and abstain. But he's made the point that it's indeed no big deal what he's asking of you.

If the guy doesn't jump - then he proves that the risks to his person are in his mind more important than the pleasure he would have in having you jump. What he's asking of you, he wouldn't do it for himself. If once he's realized this, he dares to ask again, then he proves he's a selfish coward in matters of sex, and has no regards for your safety, even less for your enjoyment. And that is a DTMFA offense.
Posted by sissoucat on July 29, 2014 at 8:00 AM · Report this
sissoucat 44
Seandr's answer to the LW is a winner.

But among the "find a sexual adventure she is willing to try", I would put #4. If LW's wife is down to pegging him, maybe she could at some time grow fond of the idea of anal on her, maybe. If she's not, well, anal sex isn't ever going to happen in that relationship.

Of course, if pegging is presented with "okay, I would even let you try pegging on me if you promise anal will happen with you afterwards" it's certain that it will lead nowhere. If you want to enjoy her ass, you have to make your own ass sexy to her. If you reinforce her ass=unsexy chore feelings, you're bound to fail. Nobody likes chores.

Besides, she's pretty GGG to let you do all those stuff with her ass, despite her finding ass totally gross. You should thank her for getting that, before you whine for more. Diamonds earrings are overdue here.
Posted by sissoucat on July 29, 2014 at 8:14 AM · Report this
Philophile 45
@41 Right on. If she's moving on top and her husband is still, she has all the control... but I think it's the worst way to relax your butt. After he has some experience receiving, I think he would be careful enough to start in the active, top role. In which case she may need to say stop moving or stop and get out. Both involve stopping not slowing. Just "stop" would work for stop moving but is there an easy/nice way to say get out?

@42 If you think an offer to fuck a man's butt will naturally dissuade a man from anal play, then why don't you believe that an offer to fuck a woman's butt will naturally dissuade a woman from anal play?

@43 That's a nice fair argument. Assuming that a guy asks for anal solely to satisfy his dick and doesn't want to make it nice for her. But I don't actually think that kind of guy is fit for a relationship, I don't like selfish prudish un-ggg sex. For me, "You go first" is if it's good for you, I can similarly try to make it good for me. I say it when I doubt that my lover's suggestion could work for me. I've also used it when suspecting an offer was in bad faith per your example, and dtmf prudes who can't give what they ask for. Sex satisfaction is important. But I gather HELP wants her to want it, so he should attempt to show her what's in it for her.
Posted by Philophile on July 30, 2014 at 10:37 AM · Report this
>>is there an easy/nice way to say get out [of my butt]? >>

How about, "Can we do something else? This isn't working right now."
Posted by EricaP on July 30, 2014 at 2:39 PM · Report this
Philophile 47
@46 That does sound like a nice way to end boring sex. I was thinking of something monosyllabic and clear, that you can say in case you flash back to a traumatic sex experience while fucking, that is not so offensive as "get out". Something that could mimic the immediacy and ease of ending things in the top position, while allowing her to take the bottom and relax her butt. Or perhaps she should take the top position so she doesn't need communication to prevent further trauma.
Posted by Philophile on July 31, 2014 at 5:57 AM · Report this
As someone who had anal sex hundreds of times over many years with many partners, just to be GGG, you CAN convince someone to do something they despise out of love, but they will never NOT despise it. Even though many nights I hid in the bathroom to cry after, I only made the choice to take it off the table after a bad injury. I now end relationships with anyone who doesn't accept a "No" the first time. You can almost definitely get it if you convince her it's the only way to make you happy but you'll both just end up with other people who are actually compatible in the long run so why stretch it out having bad sex in the mean time? Either you need anal or you don't. There are things I like that I wouldnt give up for my whole life either. Find another partner.
Posted by Ellerial on August 17, 2014 at 8:35 AM · Report this
@9 I think the problem is a lot of men suck at indirect communication. Hence virtually every pick up attempt I've ever experienced. And shut down. The no was there miles before the guy actually opened his mouth, guys are just crap at figuring that out. And then act like little children when you are actually direct about something (as a woman speaking. From a man they'd take it fine).
Posted by gnot on September 10, 2014 at 12:22 PM · Report this
XiaoGui17 50
Dear Men,

As a guilty woman, I am very, very sorry about the "explicit YES but passive NO" tactic. Women do sometimes suck at being direct. But do understand two things:

(1) We are not necessarily consciously lying to you. We may be trying to warm up to it for your sake. We may fail, but we didn't intend to deceive.

(2) If men resort to whining, begging, pressuring, crying, insulting, intimidating, and harassing us when we say no, or demanding that we justify our refusal and accepting no reason as good enough, we'd just as soon say "yes" but climb out the bathroom window.
Posted by XiaoGui17 on October 2, 2014 at 12:53 PM · Report this

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