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Tuesday, July 15, 2014

Who Should Win: Democratic House Speaker Frank Chopp or Socialist Challenger Jess Spear?

Posted by on Tue, Jul 15, 2014 at 6:00 AM

Socialist Jess Spear, left, and Democrat Frank Chopp, right. Two of them can make it through the August 5 primary. But in what order? And which one should win the general election in November?
  • Spear by Dominic Holden / Chopp by Chopp Campaign
  • Socialist Jess Spear, left, and Democrat Frank Chopp, right. Both of them can make it through the August 5 primary. But in what order? And which one should win the general election in November?

In this corner: Democratic State House Speaker Frank Chopp, who's been representing Seattle's 43rd District in the state legislature since 1994 and now presides over the one half our state lawmaking apparatus that's in Democratic control. He hands out stacks of papers outlining his accomplishments in the house (many of them thwarted in recent years by the Republican-controlled state senate) and says, "I'm the strongest leader on affordable housing."

In this corner: Socialist Jess Spear, who helped lead the grassroots push in Seattle for a $15 minimum wage and wants to go to Olympia, in part, to push rent control. She believes she can do for the legislature what Kshama Sawant has done for the Seattle City Council—pull the body swiftly to the left—and says that by ditching the speaker of the house and electing her Seattle would "lose a corporate politician" and "gain a bold advocate."

The Stranger Election Control Board will tell you what it thinks of this race tomorrow, but for today:

 

Comments (127) RSS

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1
Time to give Chopp the chop.
Posted by Hacksaw on July 15, 2014 at 6:18 AM · Report this
2
How does House Speaker Frank Chopp deal with Republican intransigence in the Legislature? He Chopps, drops, and rolls (over onto his back and exposes his vulnerable belly as a gesture of submission).
Posted by Hacksaw on July 15, 2014 at 6:20 AM · Report this
3
Come August I hope 'ol Frank feels like he's on Chopp of the world, thereby making his (hopeful) defeat that much more schadenfreudastic.
Posted by Hacksaw on July 15, 2014 at 6:22 AM · Report this
4
Who would take over the leadership if Chopp left?
Posted by Solk512 on July 15, 2014 at 7:01 AM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 5
You really haven't listed any of Jess Spear's qualifications. Just the one, which is pretty thin soup if you ask me.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on July 15, 2014 at 7:26 AM · Report this
Reverse Polarity 6
I'm torn.

On the one hand, I think Chopp has been spectacularly useless. As "Speaker" of the house, he has managed to cave in on most issues, gut education funding, roll over for Tim Eyeman, bungled the Tunnel funding (leaving Seattle to eat the inevitable cost overruns), and left Metro hanging high and dry. He's a behind-the-scenes wrangler who has never once to my memory lead on anything progressive. I would dearly love to see him gone.

On the other hand, I am very skeptical that Spear is the one to replace him with. Electing a socialist to the city council is one thing. Electing a socialist to the state legislature is another. Spear would have to do a lot to convince me that she can be effective in the state legislature. There are a lot of issues in the state besides the minimum wage (which Chopp also notably caved on). Could she actually accomplish anything in that group?
Posted by Reverse Polarity on July 15, 2014 at 7:32 AM · Report this
7
@5 Lack of 'qualification' is a qualification in itself to those of us who no longer vote for career politician types.
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 7:34 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 8
@ 7, I personally choose my doctor on the basis of not making medicine their career. And the best CEO's are the ones who never made a career out of business.
Posted by Matt from Denver on July 15, 2014 at 7:43 AM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 9
@7 Really? Do you hear yourself? That's just silly.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on July 15, 2014 at 7:44 AM · Report this
Hernandez 10
Lose rent control from the platform, come up with a better idea for dealing with the Seattle area's population boom and lack of available housing, and then I'm willing to consider her. I'm just tired of people humping rent control as some kind of "feel good" solution without any serious discussion of its implications.
Posted by Hernandez http://hernandezlist.blogspot.com on July 15, 2014 at 7:49 AM · Report this
11
I guess I'm silly then. Yet comparing being an elected representative of the people to being a medical doctor is level-headed. This brings up a good point: If politicians were required to adhere to a moral standard and level of oversight 1/10th as stringent as a doctor our politicians might still work for us. Alas they do not.

You keep voting for crooks and cowards and I'll do what I do, thankyouverymuch.
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 8:08 AM · Report this
12
You know who agrees with the socialists in taking out Chopp? Republicans in the House and Senate.

Chopp is the only reason why chilldren's health insurance in wa passed. Ask any D or R politicians why programs that help the poor, homeless, disabled have not been cut to ZERO. Blame Chopp for the deep bore tunnel? He's one of the few that spoke out and fought til the end to keep Bertha out of seattle. None of you remember his proposal to put a public park over the waterfront roadway? Sounds pretty populist to me.

Spear probably has some good ideas that Olympia should listen to. But do you really want to risk having mouth breathing republicans run the senate AND the House?
Posted by LEGION on July 15, 2014 at 8:32 AM · Report this
13
Jess Spear has a masters in marine biology from U of South Florida. She was inspired by Occupy and now intends to occupy Olympia (something she, oddly, says Chopp does but that's bad).
Posted by ChefJoe on July 15, 2014 at 8:34 AM · Report this
14
Spear seems pretty clueless at times with her beating the drum for non-solutions like rent control, but Chopp needs a good scare from the left. If she actually did beat him, the two best consequences would have basically nothing to do with her. First, a more progressive member of the caucus would probably take his leadership role, and second, Seattle-area legislators would govern as if they have to worry about the left rather than take them for granted. She doesn't impress me at all, but she's got my vote.
Posted by david jw on July 15, 2014 at 8:36 AM · Report this
15
Oh good I was worried that nobody would make the "but the other guy is worse and he wants you to vote for the socialist" argument.
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 8:38 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 16
@ 11, all career politicians are crooks? You are claiming as fact that which is not in evidence.
Posted by Matt from Denver on July 15, 2014 at 8:41 AM · Report this
17
who would jess caucus with in olympia? pretty hard to be effective in a caucus of one.
Posted by irongal on July 15, 2014 at 8:51 AM · Report this
18
Jess Spear has about as much chance of beating Frank as she does of flapping her arms and flying to the moon. This is just the Sawant model: Get name familiarity and run for City Council next. That's all this is about.

People who think Frank needs a "challenge from the left" are clueless and ignorant. Outside their little Capitol Hill urban hipster bubble, there are Republicans out there, and they hate Seattle, and they hate Capitol Hill hipsters and anybody they consider "left," and they vote. That is why Frank can't wave a magic wand and make everything flowers and unicorns. Exactly what the fuck do they expect Frank to do about them? Pack them in freight cars and send them to Auschwitz?
Posted by Chopp her down on July 15, 2014 at 9:01 AM · Report this
rejemy 19
Socialists: The tea-party of the left.
Posted by rejemy on July 15, 2014 at 9:02 AM · Report this
20
@18, CHD wrote, "Exactly what the fuck do they expect Frank to do about [Republicans out there who hate Seattleites]?"

Shame them for their hate, and represent his constituents. Work against them and for us. Every time. That's what I expect. I don't think I'm getting it.

I'm largely in agreement with David @14. I want to see Spear shake things up. Our representatives should fear losing their jobs when they vote against our interests in order to keep the campaign funds flowing. I would love to think that every time Boeing gets another handout, a chill runs down the spines of those in Olympia who let it happen.
Posted by Phil M http://twitter.com/pmocek on July 15, 2014 at 9:32 AM · Report this
21
@18, come now, when it was Chopp vs Sawant the votes were only 2:1 in favor of Chopp. That's a victory for Socialists (although really that's inflated by people who would prefer to vote GOP or against the incumbent).
Posted by ChefJoe on July 15, 2014 at 9:41 AM · Report this
ScrawnyKayaker 22
+2 to @14 Fuck the road-kill caucus.
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker on July 15, 2014 at 9:43 AM · Report this
23
Which one is going to help fix Seattle Schools? Are we still unwilling to try to make kids lives better?
Posted by Larry365 on July 15, 2014 at 9:44 AM · Report this
24

Which one will get me to try the new Wendy's Ciabatta breakfast sandwich?

Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe http://_ on July 15, 2014 at 9:54 AM · Report this
25
Rent control is a terrible idea, right? Like, that's not a controversial opinion? It didn't work in New York, and out didn't work in the Bay - you just end up with Amazon employees buying out the rent-controlled leases. Zoning laws have to change if you want affordable rent in the city that doesn't leave the richest citizens chomping at the bit to dump their money into some sort of loophole.
Posted by Ruke on July 15, 2014 at 9:56 AM · Report this
26
If Jess Spear was honestly trying to move a progressive agenda forward, she wouldn't be running against one of the most progressive and powerful voices in the state. Frank Chopp is everything we could ask for--he leads the fight against poverty, he's an ally to queer folks, he's great on labor and the environment. And most of all, he helps leads Democrats in the House to victory year after year. Jess isn't concerned about advancing a progressive agenda, she's concerned about getting more socialists elected, and she knows this is the only district where she'd have a chance. But she's out of bounds in portraying Frank as anything other than our liberal lion. Go get 'em Frank!
Posted by OUTspoken on July 15, 2014 at 9:58 AM · Report this
27
@5 One of her accomplishments would definitely be becoming a Climate Change Scientist.
Also take into account her youth, she's only in her 30's I believe. That's just enough time to finish college, get her Master's, internship and career experience in her field.
Never mind being the number 2 leader or out of City Council leader for the push for a $15 minimum wage in a major city, which succeeded. That's pretty damn awesome for someone just in their 30s.
Posted by Fallbreaker on July 15, 2014 at 10:01 AM · Report this
28
Without Frank's leadership in Olympia I cant imagine what the House Democratic leadership would look like. Frank is a respected and powerful champion of progressive causes. Most importantly, he provides results that may not grab all the headlines, but do meaningful things for every single person in our state. He's not just a progressive vote, but a progressive collector of votes.
Posted by Jack N on July 15, 2014 at 10:01 AM · Report this
29
you just end up with Amazon employees buying out the rent-controlled leases

Yep. Data is pretty strong on this; the greatest beneficiaries of rent control tend to be well educated upper middle class white professionals. And as landlords learn to price the first several years of planned rent increases, it means poor people are priced out today rather than in a couple years.
Posted by david jw on July 15, 2014 at 10:12 AM · Report this
Fnarf 30
You people are high.

If Spears goes to Olympia it's only going to be a few hours before she is reduced to a puddle in a pile of her clothes. The Republicans are rubbing their hands with glee thinking that this person might soon be appearing in their midst.

Chopp's platform is as progressive as hers is, and unlike her he has a long record of accomplishment. Lose him and a long list of public programs disappear overnight. Read @12 again. Why does WA still have a home care program? Frank Chopp. Why does WA still have children's health care? Frank Chopp. Why does WA still fund housing programs? Frank Chopp. Without Chopp herding the kittens, EVERY health care program and EVERY housing program and EVERY mental health program in this state would be kaput -- gone. THAT IS THEIR STATED AIM.

You people have no idea what goes on in your legislature. A legislative leader doesn't write dreamy poetry about socialism in her journal; he controls the agenda -- what bills are allowed to come to a vote. You people have no idea what that agenda is. Do you KNOW what bills come up in the legislature? Do you have ANY IDEA what you are up against?

Rent control, are you fucking kidding me? Rent control is ILLEGAL in Washington State. THAT'S what you're up against. Want to make it legal again? You have to get a bill through both houses of the legislature. Go on, take a look at who's in the legislature and guess how they're going to vote on that idea. I fucking dare you.

You idiots have no idea what you're up against. You're dreaming of what kind of pie you want when you're THIS CLOSE to never having a goddamn meal again.

@23, YES WE ARE UNWILLING. Read the fucking newspaper. The Republicans will NEVER fund education, ever ever ever, unless they can do it while slashing taxes, which is impossible.

Does stuff happen that we disagree with? Yes, because legislating involves horse-trading. It always has and it always will.

@20, you're a stone cold moron. Chopp works harder for progressive causes than any legislator in the history of the state of Washington. He works harder every day than Ms. Spear has ever worked on anything.

A vote for Spears makes the Washington State Legislature dramatically LESS progressive, whatever her positions are. Nobody with any brains gives a shit what her positions are. Legislation isn't won with position papers, it's won by whipping the sons of bitches into line. Nobody does that like Frank Chopp.

Want a progressive legislature? Vote out Republicans, not Democrats. You need strong majorities in both houses. Spears doesn't do that -- she does the opposite. She's exactly the kind of vaporous, well-meaning tool that energizes the opposition. You want to make a difference? Go turn over some of those suburban swing districts. We need a California revolution in this state. Spears is the opposite direction.
More...
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 10:12 AM · Report this
31
@20: Shame them for their hate? Right, because that's how you get laws passed. Get it straight, moron -- and you ARE indeed a moron -- those who you would "shame for their hate" are representing the people who voted for them, who are a majority in their districts. And they don't want to do a damn thing for you, or the City of Seattle.

The only way we're going to beat the Republicans in those districts is to find Democrats who will do more for the people IN THOSE DISTRICTS than the Republicans who now represent them are doing.

And do you know who works harder, day in and day out, to find those Democrats, in those districts, and to find support form them when they do run? Frank Fucking Chopp, that's who. Not Jess Spear, and you can take that to the bank.

Posted by Chopp her down on July 15, 2014 at 10:32 AM · Report this
32
Fuck Frank Chopp, he meddles in local politics and ends up screwing up elections. Why join your local party when Frank Chopp knows what's best for you district? Just sit back and let Frank bankroll a moderate for you!
Posted by K on July 15, 2014 at 10:39 AM · Report this
Fnarf 33
@29, it doesn't matter, because reversing RCW 35.21.830, which says "No city or town of any class may enact, maintain, or enforce ordinances or other provisions which regulate the amount of rent" will never gain more than about a fourth of the vote in the state legislature.

IT DOESN'T MATTER. That's the thing about the legislature; you have opponents who are as strong as or stronger than you. The progressive coalition in the legislature is much smaller than the Democratic one, and most Democratic legislators have to be moderate or risk getting voted out of their swing districts. You can change this by increasing the size of the Democratic caucus, but you have to be careful.

It is NOTHING like the City Council. Seattle is not Washington. In fact, Seattle's importance is lesser in the legislature than it should be, BECAUSE we are so uniformly progressive -- we're unavailable for most deal-making. That's why assholes like Rodney Tom have so much power.

Spears will get eaten alive in such an atmosphere.

This is exactly what California got wrong for so many years -- progressives farting around with inconsequential bullshit and halfwit internal disputes while the conservatives held every rank and file, and thus ran the state. When the conservatives crumbled, THEN things started to happen. Electing people like Spears is not going to make any conservative crumble; she's going to embolden them.

I'm sure Republicans are sending money her way right this minute. Get on their side, why don't you, and you'll find out what they really have in store for this state.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 10:42 AM · Report this
34
@32: You're another moron. Frank does it because YOU won't. In Districts where the local organizations are strong, and produce strong candidates from their grass roots, Frank butts the fuck out. He knows way, way better than to stick his nose in the 34th, 36th, or 46th, because he would get it bitten off. In other Districts, which need help, he's there. It's what I'd expect any good Speaker to do, and we have one. And we're supposed to replace him with this newbie nitwit? I don't think so.
Posted by Chopp her down on July 15, 2014 at 10:45 AM · Report this
Fnarf 35
@31, right on.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 10:45 AM · Report this
36
So, once she's in the state legislature she'll push for public (state) ownership of Microsoft, Amazon, Starbucks, and Boeing ( I hope Illinois doesn't mind) ?

http://inthesetimes.com/working/entry/16…
How is your campaign similar or different from Sawant's, especially since she ran in a city, and you'll be running at a state level?

There are different issues that you can raise at a state level that don't seem feasible at a city level. Just for an example, it wouldn't seem feasible for just the city officials to call for taking the big companies like Boeing, Starbucks, Amazon or Microsoft into public ownership because those corporations are not inside the city and are part of the state.
Posted by ChefJoe on July 15, 2014 at 10:48 AM · Report this
37
Yep, she could be our very own Ralph Nader.
Posted by Senor Guy on July 15, 2014 at 10:52 AM · Report this
38
And do you know HOW we're going to beat those right-wingers in the districts where they now hold power? Do you know HOW we're going to get a Democratic majority in both houses? I'll tell you how. We're going to give the people in those districts what the Republicans refuse to spend money on.

Highways, that's what. We're going to widen 405, expand 509 and 167, widen I-5 by JBLM, and build Cross-Base, so that people can MOVE AROUND.

The Republicans will fight it tooth and nail, and you can tell already who will be on their side -- all the soy-free, gluten-free, bicycle-riding, nipple-pierced little app monkeys who write for the Stranger and Publicola and the transit blogs.

But guess what, assholes? You want to get the right-wingers voted out of office, so that you can have all the things YOU want, FIRST you have to give the people in those districts what THEY want. They want sprawl and they want roads. THEY come first. YOU don't. Deal or shut the fuck up.
Posted by Chopp her down on July 15, 2014 at 10:58 AM · Report this
Fnarf 39
Here's a couple of examples of what the Republicans are after.

HB 1165 would make it illegal for the state or any county or city to adopt any environmental or developmental regulation that would infringe on private property, i.e. ANY environmental or developmental regulation at all.

Sound good to you? Zero environmental regs? No more urban growth boundary? You like coal trains, right, so you'll love this.

Now tell me how Spears is going to stop HB 1165. I don't mean "vote against and cry afterwards", I mean STOP IT FROM COMING TO A VOTE. Frank Chopp knows how to do that. Spears doesn't.

HB 1099 repeals the state estate tax. That's the complete bill summary -- "Repeals the state estate tax." This is a huge pet of the Republican caucus. Who's going to stop that? Frank Chopp is.

HB 1168 exempts Washington from "certain participation requirements" in health care services. Can any of you children guess what that means? That's right: NO MORE ABORTION OR CONTRACEPTION COVERAGE IN WASHINGTON. It also refers to opting out of that filthy Obamacare. This is a huge plank of the state Republican party, a major priority.

Who's going to stop that from happening? Jess Spear? Don't make me laugh. Jason Overstreet (co-sponsor of all these bills and many more, and the guy who recently made waves by opposing the admission of more people of color to WWU) would melt her with his breath alone.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 11:00 AM · Report this
40
@33 agreed; even if rent control worked wonderfully, Seattle politicians trying to talk it up would not deserve to be taken seriously.
Posted by david jw on July 15, 2014 at 11:03 AM · Report this
41
Not to rain on anybody's parade, but Sawant got just over 29 percent of the vote against Chopp and not even Spear's Mom thinks she can do as well. We need Frank in Olympia and we'll have him there for a long time.
Posted by J.R. on July 15, 2014 at 11:09 AM · Report this
Fnarf 42
@36, the fact that that damning statement is already out there spells doom for Spears and provokes uncontrollable glee on the right. They can use that against her -- and they will, they most certainly will. And not just against her, but against everyone in the Democratic caucus.

"Jess Spear and the loony Democrats in Seattle want the state to take ownership of Boeing, Microsoft, Amazon, and Starbucks -- look, here she is saying exactly that". That's campaign gold, and it has probably already done the damage -- the swing districts all just swung shut.

The answer to the question "who's going to be Speaker after Chopp" isn't Jess Spears, and it isn't even going to be Jim Moeller -- it's going to be fucking Bruce Chandler, R-Granger.

You people are destroying this state more effectively than the Tea Party ever could.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 11:15 AM · Report this
43
So are you saying that every scary Republican in the senate was voted in because of a socialist? No, of course you're not. But can you point to one person on the red team in the state senate who won his election because of a socialist/progressive running against a centrist Democrat? No, you can't do that either.

So, who exactly is destroying the state? Could it be the people who keep voting for centrists because they're on the blue team? Yes, yes it could.
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 11:35 AM · Report this
44
@43: No, it's morons like you who have the political IQ of a fruit fly.
Posted by typical mindless troll on July 15, 2014 at 11:43 AM · Report this
45
@ 44 Haha "political IQ". You need political IQ to pull the lever for team blue every time. Gotcha.
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 11:52 AM · Report this
Fnarf 46
@43, no, I'm saying that in swing districts moderate Democrats have a chance, while kook socialists do not -- and the balance often hangs in whom voters perceive to be aligned with statewide. A nut-job candidate like Spear who wants to take over state ownership of Starbucks is going to be a huge weight around the neck of these candidates, even if Spears has never set foot in their district.

TAKE A LOOK AT THE MAP, GENIUS:

http://vote.wa.gov/results/20121106/Legi…

Take a look at district 5, or 6, or 10, or 12 (the Republican in position 2 won by 50.91% to 49.09%). Take a look at Don Motherfucking Benton, the the biggest asshole in the state Senate (against tough opposition), who won in the 17th by SEVENTY-EIGHT VOTES out of 55,000. Look at district 25, and tell me how being allied to a kook who wants to nationalize Microsoft is going to help Dawn Morrell maintain her slender lead over Shelly Schlumpf next time.

Tell me how Spear is going to help defeat Linda Kochmar in Federal Way or Drew MacEwan in Shelton or Elizabeth Scott in Monroe or Steve Litzow in Mercer Island or Vincent Buys in Lynden or Mark Hargrove in Kent (157 votes out of 54k).

You don't even know where any of those places are, do you? But guess what? They know where you are, and they're going to keep kicking the shit out of you until you get a clue how this system works.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 12:04 PM · Report this
DOUG. 47
The fact that the Democrats have run the House since 2002 has less to do with Speaker Chopp and his ability to recruit candidates than it does with the changing demographics of Washington state during his tenure and the terribleness of George W. Bush.

Now that Bush is gone, the Dems have lost 8 seats...and counting.
Posted by DOUG. http://www.dougsvotersguide.com on July 15, 2014 at 12:07 PM · Report this
48
Listen to Fnarf, you idiots. Politics is a little more complex than "I'm gonna vote the bastards out!". You have no idea of how much weight Chopp has had to throw against the relentless Republican machine in Olympia, nor do you have any idea of what things would be like if he hadn't been there to do that. You vote for Spears, we'll find out and it will be too late.
Posted by sarah70 on July 15, 2014 at 12:19 PM · Report this
49
Fnarf is about the only person on this comment thread with any clue of how state politics works. Only a moron dumps one of the most progressive legislators in Olympia who is the actual SPEAKER of the state House and from our district. Dump Chopp and you don't get a more progressive Speaker. Dump Chopp and you likely get someone like Jim Moeller (Vancouver) as Speaker. Jim's not bad, but he's not the second coming of Che Guevera either. Maybe you get Tina Orwall (Des Moines) or Pat Sullivan (Covington). Do any of you know who these people are? They are the top leaders in the Democratic House caucus. Which means in the pecking order, they have first shot at the Speakership. None of these folks are bad, but none of them are any more to the left than Chopp currently is. And you'll note - NONE of them represent Seattle. Why in the world would be give up being represented by the most powerful pol in Olympia and trade it for someone who will be treated as a kook and a laughingstock by BOTH caucuses.
Posted by huskydown on July 15, 2014 at 12:32 PM · Report this
50
@42
Sawant also advocated taking over Boeing, M'sft, S'bux etc

Odd that Conlin neglected to make fun of Sawant (based on that position.) "Sawant advocates govt ownership of Nordstrom, Costco & Starbucks. Maybe REI and PCC too." Had Conlin used her absurd statement she would have lost.

Other politicians won't make same mistake twice about Spear.

Posted by caution&daring on July 15, 2014 at 12:46 PM · Report this
51
I bet the people bitching the most about Chopp are the same people that said there was no difference between Al Gore and George W. Bush.
Posted by Bax on July 15, 2014 at 12:56 PM · Report this
DOUG. 52
I'm curious how many of the Frank Chopp fans posting here even live in his district. Remember, before he represents your interests in Washington state, he represents the people who live in the 43rd District. And for a District that votes over 85% Democrat in Federal and Statewide elections, we have pretty mediocre representation.
Posted by DOUG. http://www.dougsvotersguide.com on July 15, 2014 at 1:04 PM · Report this
guerre 53
Wow Fnarf really hates women and their socialist dream diaries. I guess only men who have been in charge of anti-poverty groups, and not groups explicitly political, which can become our representatives. Why there is no one I think to better represent Capitol Hill and Fremont like a man described by the Seattle times as

McCabe and others attribute Chopp's success to his ability to restrain the left wing of his party...
He showed that this year in Clark County, where he overruled the local party choice and picked a different candidate to run against Republican Rep. Jim Dunn of Vancouver.

The Democratic county party chairman, Chris Bassett, resigned in protest.

"The speaker has complete candidate-selection authority, to put it mildly," Bassett says..."His sales pitch is that he's trying to create a new Democratic Party and he's looking for a centrist new majority and he's looking for people he can get into the caucus who will support that approachhttp://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2003146015_chopp23m.html
Posted by guerre on July 15, 2014 at 1:23 PM · Report this
54
@ 46 Oh dear.

"A nut-job candidate like Spear who wants to take over state ownership of Starbucks is going to be a huge weight around the neck of these candidates, even if Spears has never set foot in their district."
How? You saying it doesn't make it true. You are telling me that someone who would otherwise vote for your centrist blue candidate will instead vote for the centrist red candidate because a socialist said something in an entirely different district? Okay, but where's your proof for this?

"TAKE A LOOK AT THE MAP, GENIUS:"
Oh, a map you say? I suspect that you don't believe that I'm a genius and that I don't know how to read a map as well as someone smart. Someone like yourself, perhaps. Well, let me click on this link and give it a shot anyhow...

Oh, this isn't a map. It's list of election results by district. Okay close enough I guess, it must be a political IQ thing that I don't understand.

"Take a look at district 5, or 6, or 10, or 12 (the Republican in position 2 won by 50.91% to 49.09%)."

Not a socialist on the list. Was there a socialist running in those races that took votes from the Democratic candidate?

"Look at district 25, and tell me how being allied to a kook who wants to nationalize Microsoft is going to help Dawn Morrell maintain her slender lead over Shelly Schlumpf next time."

I see, you think that a socialist anywhere saying anything is a bad idea because it forces people to vote for the red team all over the place. But especially in tight races in conservative districts. Okay, but do you have any proof for this or do you just say it for effect?

"Tell me how Spear is going to help defeat Linda Kochmar in Federal Way or Drew MacEwan in Shelton or Elizabeth Scott in Monroe or Steve Litzow in Mercer Island or Vincent Buys in Lynden or Mark Hargrove in Kent (157 votes out of 54k)."

She's not. I can just see all the voters in Lynden now: "Well I would have voted for the blue team but that socialist in Seattle said something that I don't agree with. Guess I have to vote for the red team now. Time to mow my lawn!"

And how exactly is Chopp going to convince these supposed blue team/red team switch hitters to vote blue? Be specific.

"You don't even know where any of those places are, do you?"

Again, you're implying that I'm stupid and lack the fundamental knowledge of geography that you seem to have mastered. Got it.

"They know where you are, and they're going to keep kicking the shit out of you until you get a clue how this system works."

Dramatic! With another dash of superiority thrown in for good measure, way to go!

How does the system work? You didn't explain it. Let me explain it to you: You go out and vote for the blue team. Whoever wins goes to Olympia and works for the highest bidding/donating corporation. In a couple years you get excited, call people names and try to spread fear on the internet, then you mail off your ballot for the blue team again. Rinse, repeat.
More...
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 1:25 PM · Report this
guerre 55
Good thing the Dems have an 18 seat majority in the HoR so losing Chopp wouldn't cause the world to end. And if he is as good of a party builder as some say, I bet he could get a nice job at a larger level, either by running for higher office or woorking for the state party. You anti- Spear folks know that other states have 3rd party candidates and they haven't fallen into the abyss?
Posted by guerre on July 15, 2014 at 1:28 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 56
@ 54, "How? You saying it doesn't make it true."

Given that you also called Chopp a "crook" and "coward," you've got some fucking chutzpah following that up with that rejoinder.
Posted by Matt from Denver on July 15, 2014 at 1:30 PM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 57
DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM NOW! DEMOCRATIC SOCIALISM UNTIL A MAJORITY OF THE ELECTORATE VOTE FOR A DIFFERENT POLITICAL/ECONOMIC ORGANIZATIONAL PARADIGM!
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceclop on July 15, 2014 at 1:32 PM · Report this
58
One more time: Politics is not about what you want. Politics is about what we get.

With Spear in place of Chopp, what we get is a whole lot less of what we want. (And yes, "we" definitively includes Ms. Spear and her friends.).
Posted by RonK, Seattle on July 15, 2014 at 1:37 PM · Report this
59
@56 I would argue that someone elected to represent the people who then goes on to represent corporations instead is categorically a crook and/or a coward. They are either willfully deceiving voters during the election or failing to stand up for the voters once they get to Olympia.

Am I wrong?
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 1:43 PM · Report this
60
@58 What I want is to get what we wanted without getting what we didn't want. If I come back to the blue team will "we" be getting what I want?
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 1:46 PM · Report this
Fnarf 61
@54, you continue to confirm that you have no clue who is in Olympia or what they do there or how they got there. Stupid, yes, I think that's accurate. What you're advocating is throwing away the most effective legislator in the state for someone who will operate as a coalition of one and hand the state over to the Republicans.

Conservatives in fact made a meal over Sawant's similarly idiotic statements about taking over Boeing, as anyone with even the most casual understanding of what happens outside of the bubble would know. Yes, she hurts Democrats everywhere. Just ask one; I have. They shake their heads and say "oh, Seattle, you're killing us".

I did explain how the system works, but you cannot read. The speaker's main job is to control the flow of legislation through the bill-making process, including whether it is allowed to come to a vote or not. I gave just a few examples of what those bills contain. I'm not spreading fear, I'm spreading information, to much of which the correct response is indeed fear. If you're not afraid of what the kooks have been trying to do to you for the past thirty years, you're not paying attention. Which we already knew.

The fact that you couldn't find a link to a map on a page with 150 map links on it speaks volumes.

@52, Frank Chopp has done more for the 43rd than anyone else. Wait til you see what the Republicans have planned. It sure as hell ain't going to be rent control. It's going to be more along the lines of making it illegal to provide health services to women or children. You're cool with that, yeah? And throwing away the thousands of housing units and subsidies in the district? And eliminating Metro? And further demolishing the tax base of the state? Sending more and more Seattle money to the deserts of Eastern Washington? You're good with all of that, I guess.

@53, the fact that you don't know what the word "represent" means is just the tip of the iceberg as far as your inability to express ideas in English goes.
More...
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 1:50 PM · Report this
62
Fear mongering in favor of the status quo like Fnarf's keeps our effectively-two-party system largely filled with center-right and far-right representatives, all of whom are too afraid of pissing off the hand that feeds them to stand up for their constituents.

This is simple: I think Spear will represent me better than Chopp does.

I don't agree with Sawant on everything she says, but I feel a hell of a lot better represented by her than I did by Conlin. I watch City Council meetings now, and it's like there's somebody in there speaking for me. It's wonderful. Maybe it will work in Olymipa, too.

Fnarf, please keep lobbying for more horse-trading bullshit, and please keep up the name-calling while you do so. All the better to remind people what Chopp is about. I, and hopefully others, will vote for a representative who seems likely to represent my views in the legislature.
Posted by Phil M http://twitter.com/pmocek on July 15, 2014 at 1:53 PM · Report this
Fnarf 63
@60, you will, categorically, never get even a tiny percentage of what you want, no matter what you do or who you vote for.

The rest of us have to live in the real world, and we want it to be better than it is. Assholes like you make that impossible.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 1:54 PM · Report this
64
@61 I do feel sorry for you. Good luck in your endeavors.
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 1:55 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 65
@ 59, ah. I guess if we broaden the definition of theft and cowardice to include things that don't fit the definition of theft and cowardice, then sure. But I'm kind of a stickler for using English words to mean what they mean, so unless you show how Chopp has sold out his constituents, accepted bribes, ducked out on town halls and interviews because he didn't want to face any tough questions, I'll say you're full of shit.

Ball's in your court. Prove Chopp is what you say he is or gtfo.
Posted by Matt from Denver on July 15, 2014 at 1:59 PM · Report this
66
@63 I'm fortunate that I have much more than I ever wanted (or thought I wanted). I hope that someday you can have the same.
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 1:59 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 67
@ 62, if you want progressives to gain a real voice again, join the Dems and go to your local caucuses. Leaving the Dems to the moderates has much more to do with the current state of affairs than anything you denigrate as "fear mongering."
Posted by Matt from Denver on July 15, 2014 at 2:04 PM · Report this
Fnarf 68
@62, it is neither interesting nor valuable to have your views "represented" in the legislature, no more than it is interesting to explain to a robber who is going through your pockets how you earned the money that he is taking from you.

That's what you're advocating: a permanently losing point of view, a soapbox to stand on and express yourself while your opponents laugh at you and take you for everything you've got. That's what Spear is offering.

What I'm interested in is getting at least some of what I want. Frank Chopp is the most successful progressive legislator in this state's history. You want to throw that away and go from a 50% record of success to a 0% one.

But at least your bleating idiot voice will be heard! Excuse me while I barf.

People like you have done and will continue to do more damage to this state than all the Republicans put together.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 2:04 PM · Report this
69
@52: Nobody who sucked Mike McGinn's cock for four years, and continues to suck it, has anything of value to tell me, or the rest of the world, about Washington state politics.

@62: I don't sweat people like you, because she has no chance. Fnarf knows more than the lot of you put together.
Posted by chopp her down on July 15, 2014 at 2:08 PM · Report this
70
@65 Do you believe that you are the only person here with internet access?
Crook: a person who is dishonest or a criminal.
Coward: a person who lacks the courage to do or endure dangerous or unpleasant things.

Where am I wrong?
Posted by wasd on July 15, 2014 at 2:08 PM · Report this
Fnarf 71
@66, how nice of you to say, because you are apparently rich, that the rest of the state's residents should forever get screwed so that you can sit back and enjoy the mellifluous tones of your righteousness.

That's what I mean by "bubble". You think politics is about massaging your ego. I think it's about trying to defeat the enemy and make good things happen. Jess Spear is never in a million years going to make anything happen in Olympia. I'm sure she'll make some lovely speeches in front of an empty chamber, though.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 2:08 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 72
@ 70, fnarf's right - you can't read. I showed you where you're wrong, and challenged YOU to support your charges with specific examples of Chopp's actions.

Do that, or gtfo.
Posted by Matt from Denver on July 15, 2014 at 2:12 PM · Report this
guerre 73
@61 please enlighten me with how you percieve one represents their constitutents. It seems to me your argument is that
1. Chopp has been around a while and has seniority. This comes with challenging any incumbent
2. If Chopp is defeated, Spear will be ineffective. Well newbies usually are, especially if they aren't in the majority. This is I think a valid criticism, but once again not unique to the Chopp/Spear dynamic. The question is, I think, what will the candidate use the office for? Since SA has no hope of taking over the state, the primary point of getting this $52k part time gig is to act as a voice for constituents and for issues. If Spear can't get a repeal of rent control, but does pressure the Dems to pass eratz rent control, isn't that a victory?
3. Spear's victory would hurt non-seattle Dems. I don't understand how this dynamic would work, but I am not from the burbs. I don't think most people pay attention to their HoR race,let alone other district HoR members. If anything it acts as forcing mechanism, allowing exurb dems to paint themselves as not a "loony leftist" like Spear and appear more centralist. Now if you were making the agrument that this will hurt fund rasing, maybe you might have a point. Chopp spends all of his money in other districts, fund raising for other dems. if he is out of power so are his donors. In addition, one could make the agruemtn that the state party will have to spend money here in seattle to help chopp, but that is something we will get real numbers on to see if that bares out.
4. If Chopp is out, then the party will fall into a tail spin. This disregards any other dems hungry for power, like the majority leader or the whip. Fnarf must thin that the whip is incompetent and is only a dog lead around by Chopp. I presume that the whip has been essential in rustling up votes and can do the same with the gravel.
More...
Posted by guerre on July 15, 2014 at 2:19 PM · Report this
Fnarf 74
@73, gravel?

Your faith in Spear's ability to "pressure" Dems or anyone else to do anything at all is hilarious. She won't be able to pressure Don Benton to stop standing on her foot.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 2:22 PM · Report this
guerre 75
@74 god I would hate to work with you, freaking out over a mistyped "r". Some of us only have 8 working finger to type with(does ending a sentence with a preposition grind your gears?). Honest question: do you believe that a Spear victory will end the Democratic control of the state house? Do you believe that incumbents should never be challenged? Do you believe that the house leadership is brainless without Chopp?
Posted by guerre on July 15, 2014 at 2:28 PM · Report this
76
@62: What striking to me about your comment is what you want out of politics. There's no indication anywhere in your comment that you care about political outcomes at all. All you want, it seems, is to have someone saying the things you want to hear. What actually comes out of Olympia--actually accomplishing progressive goals, or thwarting reactionary ones--is apparently irrelevant to you. THat's like going to a restaurant and saying "I don't really care if the food they serve me is any good, as long as there's one guy in the kitchen who has the same taste in food that I do."

This seems like a bizarre way to think about politics. I'm root for Spears to give Chopp a good scare because I am nowhere near as impressed as many commenters here seem to be with his leadership, and don't think it's as progressive as it could reasonably have been given the circumstances. He's more Tip O'Neill than Nancy Pelosi. But Spear's uselessness would be pre-determined, no matter how soothing you find her speechifying.
Posted by david jw on July 15, 2014 at 2:37 PM · Report this
77
Fnarf, you are categorically wrong. Pam Roach is the biggest asshole in the Senate.
Posted by Reader01 on July 15, 2014 at 2:37 PM · Report this
Fnarf 78
@75, challenged by socialist fools who want to nationalize the coffee, software, internet and airplane industries? Yes, I believe that incumbents should never be challenged by people like that.

Is that what you want? Do you think the state of Washington should or could take over those companies? I've shown you my cards, now you show me yours.

As for your other questions, a thing doesn't have to be the literal end of the world to qualify as a thing that should be prevented. End control? Possibly, possibly not -- it will certainly make life much more difficult. Brainless, no -- but missing its finest brain, yes. Why would you inflict that on yourself?

[Ending a sentence with a preposition is a perfectly acceptable thing to do, btw. Substituting common words for the common word you want isn't -- not if you want to be understood. I've seen people do it successfully with no "working finger" at all.]
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 2:42 PM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 79
@51 Nader supporters! Stupid, stupid people. Just like Rand Paul supporters.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on July 15, 2014 at 2:51 PM · Report this
80
@68, Fnarf wrote, "it is neither interesting nor valuable to have your views "represented" in the legislature".

Now that we have that out of the way, please continue telling us how we should select our legislative representatives.

@76: David wrote something about this not being a representative democracy, and that it's bizarre to wish to elect a legislative representative to represent one's views in the legislature.

Call me a dreamer.
Posted by Phil M http://twitter.com/pmocek on July 15, 2014 at 2:51 PM · Report this
81
@48, Sarah wrote, "You have no idea of how much weight Chopp has had to throw against the relentless Republican machine in Olympia, nor do you have any idea of what things would be like if he hadn't been there to do that." It would be horrible. We'd have a sales tax but no income tax, crumbling infrastructure, massive slashes to user-fee-supported public transit, user fees demanded by the state for use of public lands, the state boring a tunnel under the downtown, massive corporate welfare payouts to a war contractor, the legislature attacking our medical cannabis system and the liquor control board overseeing "the end" of cannabis prohibition, coal trains rumbling through town. . . the list goes on. For fuck's sake, don't let Jess Spear get in there and screw that up. What we need is more of the same from our saviors in the Democratic Party.
Posted by Phil M http://twitter.com/pmocek on July 15, 2014 at 3:11 PM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 82
@80- I'm trying to figure out how fnarf thinks representative democracy is supposed to to work if our elected representatives aren't representing our interests..

That guy doesn't even understand why Weird Al is funny, though. Can't expect too much from him.
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceclop on July 15, 2014 at 3:26 PM · Report this
83
I think the whole idea that we have to keep Chopp to stop a worse alternative is really the last line of defense from his supporters. One of the comments above (47) said it; the state house got a democratic majority because people were voting along national lines, since then their majority has ebbed away. In the senate, the majority coalition caucus is includes two democrats, allowing the republicans to dominate. Voting democrat allowed the republicans in in the senate.
But really, if you're arguing that people should vote Chopp, or Democrat, to keep out the republicans, its no wonder that such an uninspiring message has resulted in the shambles that is the WA legislature, political disengagement and no action taken on key issues (McCleary anyone?). Chopp definitely bears a lot of responsibility for this situation.
I think Jess' clear message and ideas about how to bring the spirit of the winning $15 movement to Olympia is the only way to decisively break this deadlock.
Posted by 23kid on July 15, 2014 at 3:45 PM · Report this
84
@77: Pam Roach isn't even close to being the biggest asshole in the Senate. See Benton, Don; Honeyford, Jim; Sheldon, Tim; and Baumgartner, Michael. Oh, and Bailey, Barbara, and Ericksen, Doug.
Posted by Chopp her down on July 15, 2014 at 3:46 PM · Report this
85
@82 -- Chopp IS representing your interests.

That doesn't mean he can get everything you want ... or even very much of what you want, very fast.

You don't understand this because your grasp of representative democracy is fixed at an infantile stage of development.

Posted by RonK, Seattle on July 15, 2014 at 3:48 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 86
@ 83, thanks for joining slog just to post that, Jess.
Posted by Matt from Denver on July 15, 2014 at 3:50 PM · Report this
87
@86 - full disclosure - not jess
Posted by 23kid on July 15, 2014 at 3:54 PM · Report this
88
I think Frank Chopp does a good job of representing the interests of Boeing, Vulcan, Paul Allen, Goodman Realestate, Microsoft, Amazon, etc... Look at the pace of things: public services continue to get cut. Corporations get larger and larger handouts. Education is criminally underfunded (couldn't have happened without Frank). Fees at UW have gone up 74% since 2008.

Its time to stop accepting what big business is willing to give as sufficient. Big business didn't want $15 passed in Seattle, but because there were people organizing for it, and an elected representative who firmly stuck to advocating for what working people need, we won.

Frank Chopp could: start publicly talking about how the state should repeal the rent control law. He could have allowed the $12.50 min wage bill out of committee and forced the discussion to happen and forced the GOP and right wing democrats to explain to working people why they back businesses and not working people. He could have introduced a housing program like Utah has that is ending homelessness in that state.

Frank Chopp did not have to give Boeing $8.7 billion and then pressure Boeing workers to take cuts to their pensions in a concessionary 10 year contract. Frank Chopp did not have to torpedo the Worker Privacy Act, but he did, he in fact called the police on labor leaders.

With this type of leadership, is it any wonder y'all are so scared that Jess can win?
Posted by j-so fresh on July 15, 2014 at 4:04 PM · Report this
NaFun 89
I hate Chopp, but rent control in anathema.
Posted by NaFun http://www.dancesafe.org on July 15, 2014 at 4:05 PM · Report this
90
Hey, what's with the kneeling cowardice, #12, #17, #19, #26, #30, #41, #42, #48, #51, #58 ?

If you're a worker, one of the 99%, then it's mere silly treason to vote for a candidate of the 1%-ers' Democratic or Republican parties -- especially when there's a workers' candidate, on a worker's wage, running: Jess Spear!

Ooh! -- you say you don't agree with Jess Spear, Kshama Sawant, Socialist Alternative and $15Now on everything, or even on anything?
Well, as far as voting for Jess Spear is concerned, any disagreements you might have with her are completely irrelevant.
If you're one of the 99% you're honor-bound to vote for Jess Spear.
Vote with your class, for your class!

With your support Jess Spear has an absolutely excellent chance of winning.
In 2012 in the same electorate, against the same opponent, Kshama Sawant won 20,000 votes, 29%.
And that was before Kshama's victorious 2013 Seattle city council run -- the first genuine Socialist win here in living memory! Directed by Jess.
And before the 2014 largely-victorious Seattle $15 minimum-wage battle -- the first offensive victory here in decades! Championed by Kshama in council, directed via $15Now by Jess.

Even more importantly, discuss with Jess Spear -- and her sisters and brothers -- any disagreements you might have.
That way we can learn from one another.

And most importantly, make Socialist Alternative and $15Now your very own party -- join it, build it, influence it.
http://www.socialistalternative.org/
http://15now.org/

Dump the Elephant, Dump the Ass! Build a Party of the Working Class!
Posted by socialistworld on July 15, 2014 at 4:06 PM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 91
@85- That's got nothing to do with what fnarf said, and is very debatable.
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceclop on July 15, 2014 at 4:27 PM · Report this
92
Hey, what's with the kneeling cowardice, #12, #17, #19, #26, #30, #41, #42, #48, #51, #58 ?

If you're a worker, one of the 99%, then it's mere silly treason to vote for a candidate of the 1%-ers' Democratic or Republican parties -- especially when there's a workers' candidate, on a worker's wage, running: Jess Spear!

Ooh! -- you say you don't agree with Jess Spear, Kshama Sawant, Socialist Alternative and $15Now on everything, or even on anything?
Well, as far as voting for Jess Spear is concerned, any disagreements you might have with her are completely irrelevant.
If you're one of the 99% you're honor-bound to vote for Jess Spear.
Vote with your class, for your class!

With your support Jess Spear has an absolutely excellent chance of winning.
In 2012 in the same electorate, against the same opponent, Kshama Sawant won 20,000 votes, 29%.
And that was before Kshama's victorious 2013 Seattle city council run -- the first genuine Socialist win here in living memory! Directed by Jess.
And before the 2014 largely-victorious Seattle $15 minimum-wage battle -- the first offensive victory here in decades! Championed by Kshama in council, directed via $15Now by Jess.

Even more importantly, discuss with Jess Spear -- and her sisters and brothers -- any disagreements you might have.
That way we can learn from one another.

And most importantly, make Socialist Alternative and $15Now your very own party -- join it, build it, influence it.

Dump the Elephant, Dump the Ass! Build a Party of the Working Class!
Posted by socialistworld on July 15, 2014 at 4:33 PM · Report this
93
UFCW Local 21 has endorsed Chopp.

"In an official statement UFCW 21 President Dave Schmitz said: “Our political priority is to find progressive leaders who will put the interests of workers above the interests of corporations. We don’t take any endorsement lightly. Frank Chopp has a proven track record supporting working families and is clearly the most likely to make good new laws and take advantage of this moment. We strongly endorse his re-election. We stand with Frank Chopp."

http://www.seattlemet.com/news-and-profi…
Posted by M. Wells on July 15, 2014 at 4:35 PM · Report this
94
Here is a list of a few of Frank Chopp's corporate donors: Boeing, Alaska Airlines, Washington Restaurant Association, Wal-Mart, McDonald's, BP, Bank of America, Vulcan Realty, BNSF Railways, and Comcast. Jess Spear is not taking a dime of corporate money for her campaign. How can Frank Chopp, who not only accepts large amounts of corporate money, but also has overseen the LARGEST corporate tax giveaway in U.S History ($8.7 billion to Boeing in 2013) act in the interest of our communities? People get sold out and big business gets bailed out.

Frank Chopp twenty years ago is not the same Frank Chopp of today. For instance, in 1988 Chopp was instrumental in raising the State's minimum wage. While earlier this year he let legislation that would raise the State minimum wage to $12.50 die in committee. He has claimed he is a friend to the worker, but in 2009 he failed to support the Worker Privacy Act.

Jess Spear was the volunteer coordinator for Kshama Sawant's election campaign for Seattle City Council and she was the organizing director of 15 Now Seattle. Sawant won, and workers won $15/hour in Seattle. In addition, the fight for $15 is spreading rapidly across the nation. Spear has shown that she is an effective fighter for working people and is strongly addressing issues that democrats can't because they, for the most part, are bought out by big business (like almost all politicians these days).

The bottom line is that we need real representation for working people in Olympia, not for corporate interest.
Posted by LeTigre00 on July 15, 2014 at 4:37 PM · Report this
95
Hey, what's with the kneeling cowardice, #12, #17, #19, #26, #30, #41, #42, #48, #51, #58 ?

If you're a worker, one of the 99%, then it's mere silly treason to vote for a candidate of the 1%-ers' Democratic or Republican parties -- especially when there's a workers' candidate, on a worker's wage, running: Jess Spear!

Ooh! -- you say you don't agree with Jess Spear, Kshama Sawant, Socialist Alternative and $15Now on everything, or even on anything?
Well, as far as voting for Jess Spear is concerned, any disagreements you might have with her are completely irrelevant.
If you're one of the 99% you're honor-bound to vote for Jess Spear.
Vote with your class, for your class!

With your support Jess Spear has an absolutely excellent chance of winning.
In 2012 in the same electorate, against the same opponent, Kshama Sawant won 20,000 votes, 29%.
And that was before Kshama's victorious 2013 Seattle city council run -- the first genuine Socialist win here in living memory! Directed by Jess.
And before the 2014 largely-victorious Seattle $15 minimum-wage battle -- the first offensive victory here in decades! Championed by Kshama in council, directed via $15Now by Jess.

Even more importantly, discuss with Jess Spear -- and her sisters and brothers -- any disagreements you might have.
That way we can learn from one another.

And most importantly, make Socialist Alternative and $15Now your very own party -- join it, build it, influence it.
http://www.socialistalternative.org/
http://15now.org/

Dump the Elephant, Dump the Ass! Build a Party of the Working Class!
Posted by socialistworld on July 15, 2014 at 4:41 PM · Report this
96
Hey, what's with the kneeling cowardice, #12, #17, #19, #26, #30, #41, #42, #48, #51, #58 ?

If you're a worker, one of the 99%, then it's mere silly treason to vote for a candidate of the 1%-ers' Democratic or Republican parties -- especially when there's a workers' candidate, on a worker's wage, running: Jess Spear!

Ooh! -- you say you don't agree with Jess Spear, Kshama Sawant, Socialist Alternative and $15Now on everything, or even on anything?
Well, as far as voting for Jess Spear is concerned, any disagreements you might have with her are completely irrelevant.
If you're one of the 99% you're honor-bound to vote for Jess Spear.
Vote with your class, for your class!

With your support Jess Spear has an absolutely excellent chance of winning.
In 2012 in the same electorate, against the same opponent, Kshama Sawant won 20,000 votes, 29%.
And that was before Kshama's victorious 2013 Seattle city council run -- the first genuine Socialist win here in living memory! Directed by Jess.
And before the 2014 largely-victorious Seattle $15 minimum-wage battle -- the first offensive victory here in decades! Championed by Kshama in council, directed via $15Now by Jess.

Even more importantly, discuss with Jess Spear -- and her sisters and brothers -- any disagreements you might have.
That way we can learn from one another.

And most importantly, make Socialist Alternative and $15Now your very own party -- join it, build it, influence it.
http://www.socialistalternative.org/
http://15now.org/

Dump the Elephant, Dump the Ass! Build a Party of the Working Class!
More...
Posted by socialistworld on July 15, 2014 at 4:47 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 97
@95, how many people in your party are actually working class? Upper middle class background slummers don't count.
Posted by Matt from Denver on July 15, 2014 at 5:02 PM · Report this
Fnarf 98
Here's another example: Frank Chopp is endorsed by the Cascade Bicycle Club -- the largest bicycle advocacy group in the entire country. You know why? Because Chopp has met with them, understands the concerns of bicyclists, and has fought hard to get money for bicycle infrastructure in the state transportation budget.

Spear? Never bothered to fill out their candidate questionnaire.

Chopp supports the Bicycle Master Plan for Seattle. Spear doesn't know what that even is. His questionnaire responses are very specifically geared to the needs of his district, which is arguably the most bicycle-friendly in the state.

From his questionnaire:
During the 2013 legislative session, I helped lead the way in the House, passing a transportation revenue package with a significant increase in funding for pedestrian and bike infrastructure, from less that one percent up to about 3.5%. Senate Republicans refused to vote on any revenue package. The action by the House was a step in the right direction, but we need to do more for bike riders and pedestrians. I will continue to work with legislators to make sure that we do this.
Spear? I'm sure she will come up with something, someday, on her own, without talking to anyone in the district or the cycling community, which will never result in any legislation or any budget items considered by anyone.

The Safe Routes for Schools program -- does Spear support it? How much has she requested its budget be increased by? Has she even heard of it? How about the Complete Streets program? Chopp supports it, and is asking for $110 million. For all of these programs, and more, Chopp says "These numbers are approximately the amounts we attempted to add to these programs in the 2013 transportation revenue package, approved by the House Democrats but blocked by the Senate Republicans."

Now, maybe you don't give a crap about bicycle lanes. That's fine -- but a lot of people do. THIS IS THE DISTRICT SPEAKING. Chopp is representing EXACTLY what his district is asking of him.

What's Spear asking for? Empty gestures. A permanent minority, scorning the very idea of influence or power because it's "corrupt" and "criminal" to even want to govern. Idiots.

I hear she's real popular with the 911 Truthers, though.
More...
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on July 15, 2014 at 7:04 PM · Report this
DOUG. 99
@98: Cascade Bike Club also endorsed Greg Nickels for mayor over Mike McGinn in the 2009 primary, even though McGinn actually RIDES a bike and was a serious advocate for cycling infrastructure. Meanwhile Greg Nickels teamed with Susie Burke to block the Burke Gilman Trail for a year for her personal construction project and backpedal on the long-planned re-striping of Stone Way.

And you know why Cascade endorsed Nickels? Because the Cascade Bike Club is more interested in maintaining the status quo and their own access to government than they are in endorsing the best candidates for bicyclists.

And you know what happened in 2009? Greg Nickels lost, and when Mike McGinn was elected mayor, shit actually got done.

I have no idea who I'm voting for the 2014 General Election, but I'm voting for Spear in the Primary. Frank Chopp lives five blocks from my house, and he needs to feel some heat and realize who he represents. It's not the status quo in Olympia. It's me.
Posted by DOUG. http://www.dougsvotersguide.com on July 15, 2014 at 7:21 PM · Report this
100
I am sick of people who cannot do math thinking that a vote for a 3rd partier is a vote for the Republicans. Did no one remember that 2 votes for Democrats last time around equaled a Republican majority? As for who she would caucus with, like Bernie Sanders, she most likely would caucus with the Dems. Duh!
If she is to the left of the Dems, they can get the backbone to live up to their own platform, and still have someone to blame if they mess up. It's a win-win for the left. And a lose-lose for the Republicans.
Posted by simahoyo on July 15, 2014 at 8:24 PM · Report this
101
@100 -- Since you understand the mathematics of voting systems, perhaps you'd like to give the group a capsule description of Arrow's Impossibility Theorem, and why you reject its logical rigor..

The Greeks had an intuitive grasp of the concept, but formal proof was established only in the 1950s.

Of course that's not the issue in this case, but since you say you're sick of - something - and that something seems to reject the established maths of voting, feel free to hold forth.
Posted by RonK, Seattle on July 15, 2014 at 8:57 PM · Report this
102
#88 - holy fuck this is a load of bullshit. You want to know why education is underfunded? Because we have continuously voted to underfund it by passing statewide anti tax initiatives. We had an income tax initiative on the ballot that would have dramatically increased education funding and it got absolutely crushed, including in KING COUNTY. That's not Frank Chopp's fault - that's ours. And if you think he's going to suddenly pass an income tax 12 months after it got destroyed at the ballot box, you're completely naive.

You bitch about Chopp listening to Boeing and Amazon and Alaska. Well what the hell do you want him to do? They're the state's largest employers -- any elected official with his salt had damn well better be willing to listen to them. Just because they're big businesses doesn't mean they're evil and wrong 100% of the time.

All of this complaining reminds me of the idiots who bitched about how the ACA just wasn't good enough, how it wasn't going to help, rather than being ecstatic over the biggest expansion of health care to those that needed it in 50 years. You're a bunch of Nader voters claiming that Al Gore was the same as Bush. You wound up with the worst president in the last 90 years and Alito and Roberts fucking you over. Forgive me and others if we consider your judgment a little suspect.
Posted by Bax on July 15, 2014 at 9:00 PM · Report this
103
@102 You mention the largest employers in the state, but neglect to mention the largest employer in Chopp's actual district, which is the University of Washington. Not only has he failed to support higher ed, but he's undermined its funding, because of some stupid personal vendetta he had against Emmert, who isn't even around anymore. Chopp's an impressive (and totally smarmy) politician, but a god awful representative. The 43rd deserves better.
Posted by screw chopp on July 15, 2014 at 10:52 PM · Report this
collectivism_sucks 104
Fnarf killed it. He's so right. The GOP would like nothing better than to see Spear win. Why? Because not only would they personally make mince meat out of her, but having a socialist in the state house would give them what they needed to whip the "purple" parts of Washington into a Republican voting frenzy.
But I doubt she'll win. Sawant, who was more well known, only got 29% of the vote when she ran against Chopp. Most likely Spear is doing this as a test run for a city council run later on.
Posted by collectivism_sucks on July 16, 2014 at 12:26 AM · Report this
105
I can't believe I'm writing this - listen to Fnarf, gang. Chopp's record is actually not that bad, and we'll have a very hard time replacing his political skill and capital. The only reason Spear is running on Chopp's district is because it's the most liberal around here and, thus, she's likeliest to win it. That's nowhere a good enough reason to dump a politician who's actually done pretty well. I'm hearing a lot of broad, general ideological reasons to support Jess - career politicians do not represent "us", the establishment dems have become corporate lackeys, we need to build up a Socialist Alternative to pull the government back to the people, etc. But none of these broad points, laudable as they might be, give any reason why Frank has to go, or why Jess would be so much better, or whether she would be competent at all. Truthfully, I see a few worrisome red flags that suggest to me that Jess is better at sloganeering and posing for the cameras than crafting substantive plans and doing the dreary work of representative government. In short, it sounds like we would be replacing a heavyweight with a lightweight, and I don't know why we should do that just to make a point. I supported Sawant over Conlin, and McGinn over Murray, and the $15 minimum wage in Seattle and SeaTac. I'm not center-left at all; I'm totally left. But Frank Chopp has done nothing to truly offend me. You know who has? Pansy-ass Dems and Republicans. Run against them! Don't run against Chopp. There's nothing wrong with him.
Posted by Mirror image of Teabaggers on July 16, 2014 at 2:18 AM · Report this
106
@103 - okay, so where do you find the revenue to add funding to higher Ed? We have continuously voted to restrict the state's property tax levy. We have voted down an income tax. Where is the $ going to come from? Trees?

At some point you wind up being forced to make tough decisions. Many of those decisions wind up being made by the legislature, but they're forced by voter approved initiatives. Do I disagree with decisions Chopp has made? Yes. But I at least understand that he's operating from a box we've all put him in.
Posted by Bax on July 16, 2014 at 6:14 AM · Report this
107
Frank Chopp personally told me that if the high earner income tax were to pass that one of his priorities would be to cut the B&O tax. WTF?! No mention of the sales tax. When I challenged this he had no response. When you talk to him as a liberal, he goes on and on about his activist past, but it's all examples from way too long ago. It just seems that Olympia has really changed him for the worse. He's been there way too long and just takes it for granted that that's where he'll stay and seems to have forgotten to represent the people of his actual district. It also seems to me that the 43rd--one of the most progressive in the state--ends up cheated, with only one rep of our interests instead of two, because Chopp is so singularly focused on being Speaker. He's been great at managing his caucus, but his management ends up wasted by his lack of a truly progressive agenda.
Posted by howlmouse on July 16, 2014 at 7:35 AM · Report this
108
Fnarf - I want to buy you a beer.

The only thing anyone needs to understand about voting for Spear is that she will accomplish nothing. She will never chair a committee. She will never drive a progressive agenda. She will be sanctimonious wallpaper in a chamber that is already overflowing with that.

Finally - kicking out Frank Chopp will result in a more conservative Speaker - Period, Full stop. So - if you want Olympia to become instantly less progressive, the quickest way to make that happen is to vote for Jess Spear. And as a die-hard progressive, it makes me want to bang my head against a wall that Spear supporters don't get this.
Posted by virtuosobob on July 16, 2014 at 10:14 AM · Report this
109
My only quibble with Fnarf's effort is that hollering at a screaming infant will not make said infant grow up any faster.
Posted by RonK, Seattle on July 16, 2014 at 11:09 AM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 110
@108- You should probably call yourself a "die-easy progressive", since you seem completely resigned to sliding ever further away from progressive governance.
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceclop on July 16, 2014 at 11:09 AM · Report this
111
Anyone who actually knows Frank and sees his work in Olympia knows he is an unparalleled leader in the progressive movement with a steadfast commitment to the people. What separates Frank from most lefty ideologues is his brilliant tactical mind, to you know, ACTUALLY ACCOMPLISH things like Apple Health, low-income housing, the Dream Act, worker protections like anti-wage theft legislation, the Reproductive Parity Act and so much more - and that's just last session). Moreover, Frank's goes hard in the paint recruiting and growing the AMAZING pool of talented young leaders, especially young women and young legislators of color who are quickly becoming powerhouse advocates for the people - Lillian Ortiz-Self, Monica Stonier, Joe Fitzgibbon, Mia Gregerson, Jessyn Ferrell, Brady Walkinshaw, Cyrus Habib, David Sawyer, Marcus Riccelli... C'mon. A squad that talented would make the Seahawks jealous. Frank is intentional about diversifying the caucus, bringing in innovative young activists and keeping Washington State the national progressive leader that it is, all while being mindful of the very real political factors outside of Planet Seattle that most of us simply take for granted living in Liberal La La Land (As someone else commented - Speaker Chopp and the Democrats hold a slim majority in the House that includes legislators from rural areas of southwest WA whose constituents’ votes can’t be taken for granted the way those in Seattle can. And even if those legislators could be counted on to vote for a minimum wage increase, why waste that political capital knowing that the Republican-controlled Senate wouldn't even move the bill out of their committee process? Ms. Spears ought to take a trip to Southwest Washington for a tour de reality check). Speaker Chopp is among the finest advocates I have ever known; most Progressives in Washington State have no idea how lucky we are to have Frank at the helm.
More...
Posted by Emily Murphy on July 16, 2014 at 11:19 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 112
@ 110, if you are unwilling to do the hard work of electing EFFECTIVE progressives (and that will be tough, as long as so many of them fail to understand that that means being part of the Democratic Party), and would rather take the short cut of "applying pressure" by voting third party (a tactic that NEVER works), I fail to see how you have any ground to level such charges at anyone.
Posted by Matt from Denver on July 16, 2014 at 3:07 PM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 113
@112- I'll take a Bernie Sanders over the legislature full of Rodney Tom's we've got now, thanks.

It's absolutely bullshit that a third party legislator (who gets to caucus where the please, just like everyone else) won't be at least as effective as a Democratic one. The difference is they won't be saddled with allegiance to the party of capitulation. If we can do the hard work of putting progressives of any party in the legislature it'll be better than electing nothing but center-right and right wingers.

You might have a point if we were talking about the executive office, where a third party office-holder would probably be stymied by the partisans of both parties (like you and fnarf and RonK) who value the status quo more than any ideals they pretend to hold.
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceclop on July 16, 2014 at 4:18 PM · Report this
114
@110- part of being progressive to me means electing people who are also competent. Maybe you are okay electing someone who doesn't know how the MVET relates to metro... I am not
Posted by virtuosobob on July 16, 2014 at 4:33 PM · Report this
Steve Zemke 115
Funny thing here - Jess Spear is not a member of the Democratic Party but says she prefers the Socialist Alternative Party on the ballot. In fact she opposes the Democratic party if you believe the Socialist Alternative's website. Their website says "Unions and other social movement organizations should stop funding and supporting the Democratic and Republican Parties and instead organize independent left-wing, anti-corporate candidates and coalitions as a first step toward building a workers’ party." http://www.socialistalternative.org/abou…
So she is not looking to work with Democrats. Certainly challenging Speaker of the House Frank Chopp is not a sign of wanting to align with the Democrats. She is running an independent campaign and I guess she would be a caucus of one in Olympia. Hard to be effective that way although you won't get any dissent in your caucus.
Posted by Steve Zemke http://www.majorityrules.org on July 16, 2014 at 7:46 PM · Report this
Steve Zemke 116
#113 Legislators don't get to caucus wherever they want. Democrats booted Rodney Tom out of the Senate Democratic Caucus in Olympia even though he claimed he was a Democrat. Some joke. Republicans did the same with Pam Roach but brought her back when they needed her vote to take over the Senate.
Spear says she belongs to the Socialist Alternative Party. She is not a Democrat and certainly challenging the Democratic leader in the House is not a sign you are trying to make friends or work with Democrats. She is an independent and would be a caucus of one in Olympia.
She is no Bernie Sanders. US Senator Sanders of Vermont according a Wikipedia article ran as an independent in 2005 against a Republican and Democrats supported him and ran no Democratic candidate in the race. Sanders gained Democratic support for his Senate race because he had a record as a Representative of working with Democrats.
Posted by Steve Zemke http://www.majorityrules.org on July 16, 2014 at 8:07 PM · Report this
117
@102 No, your judgement is suspect as shown by Democrats proving Nader right when they voted for Bush's wars while millions of Americans were in the street protesting it.
Posted by anon1256 on July 18, 2014 at 8:58 AM · Report this
118
@113 So the solution is to elect a novice with superficial and delusional economic ideas like golly all we need to do is click our heels and "collectivize Microsoft and Boeing?" TA-DA!

I mean how the fuck could that even happen? Nobody knows. And it won't. Ever.

She might as well make the invention of Warp Drive and matter transportation part of her platform. Actually. No. Those at least have some foundation in science. She might as well make learning Elf magic part of her platform.

Look. I'm with in so far as the two party system has been driven so far to the right.

However until the left can field competent candidates that aren't mired in 19th century Pseudo-Marxist magical delusions and can learn how the world actually operates I'm going to have to stick with Democrats. As imperfect as they are.
Posted by tkc on July 18, 2014 at 11:40 AM · Report this
119
@115 thats one hell of an extrapolation. I think the work of Kshama Sawant shows how Jess could work; yesterday Kshama campaigned with Nick Licata on the metro funding vote, and offered to work with Mike O'Brien and Tom Rasmussen on progressive taxation. That's hardly a refusal to work with Democrats.
Posted by 23kid on July 18, 2014 at 1:04 PM · Report this
120
@76: David wrote something about this not being a representative democracy, and that it's bizarre to wish to elect a legislative representative to represent one's views in the legislature.


No I didn't. I said I find it very strange that you value having a legislator who shares more of your all things considered views than having a legislator who is effective at accomplishing goals. It treats the legislature like an aesthetic project rather than a political one. You have an excessively literal conception of representative democracy.
Posted by david jw on July 18, 2014 at 1:55 PM · Report this
121
I think the work of Kshama Sawant shows how Jess could work

I invite you to contemplate the differences between the Seattle City Council and the State legislature further, and see if you can't figure out how obviously wrong this is.
Posted by david jw on July 18, 2014 at 2:01 PM · Report this
122
Sawant hasn't done anything for Seattle. The $15 minimum wage was a campaign initiative of the Mayor.
Posted by James Walker on July 18, 2014 at 4:15 PM · Report this
123
In 2006, Frank Chopp and the state Democratic Party machine prevented anti-war Democratic candidate for US Senate, Hong Tran, from gaining access to Democratic Party resources including voter lists. Frank Chopp may wear a corporate "D" for Democrat but his is not democratic in his actions within his party. The Seattle Time article previously quoted also points that out. Here it is again:

McCabe and others attribute Chopp's success to his ability to restrain the left wing of his party...

He showed that this year in Clark County, where he overruled the local party choice and picked a different candidate to run against Republican Rep. Jim Dunn of Vancouver.

The Democratic county party chairman, Chris Bassett, resigned in protest.

"The speaker has complete candidate-selection authority, to put it mildly," Bassett says..."His sales pitch is that he's trying to create a new Democratic Party and he's looking for a centrist new majority and he's looking for people he can get into the caucus who will support that approach
http://seattletimes.com/html/localnews/2…

David Brookbank
Posted by David Brookbank on July 19, 2014 at 8:32 PM · Report this
124
If you don't like Spear,then run yourself (or shut the fuck up,you hypocrites!Pfft!!! ---http://www.proportionalrepresentation.or… , http://www.ballot-access.org , http://www.broadleft.org (L) ).
Posted by 5th Columnist on July 20, 2014 at 7:54 PM · Report this
125
@Bax: how about calling Chopp and those other whores in Oly and tell them to close all six-hundred tax loopholes for their under-the-table patrons? --- http://www.ctj.org , http://www.taxsanity.org , http://www.itep/org/whopays.
Posted by 5th Columnist on July 20, 2014 at 8:08 PM · Report this
Steve Zemke 126
One way to deal with tax exemptions is to end them as off budget spending and require that the legislature adopt a tax expenditure budget every two years as part of the regular biennial omnibus operating appropriation budget. The Tax Expenditure Budget would allow the Legislature the opportunity to periodically evaluate the need and effectiveness of the discretionary tax exemptions not required by constitutional law in meeting state needs. Approximately 450 of the current 650 tax exemptions are discretionary and account for some $24 billion in revenue not collected. Some tax exemptions the public will not want repealed, including the sales tax exemption for food and prescription drugs but others represent loopholes or benefit special interests.
House Bill 2721 to create a Tax Expenditure Budget had 25 sponsors in the House in the last Legislative session and SB 6477 had 9 sponsors in the Senate. You can check the bills out by going to www.leg.wa.gov More information can also be found at www.taxsanity.org
Posted by Steve Zemke http://www.majorityrules.org on July 20, 2014 at 11:33 PM · Report this
127
Rent control? Seriously, is there any public policy more ridiculous, more universally maligned by economists than rent control? If Ms. Spears has honestly studied the literature, she knows that rent controls are destructive but chooses to ignore those consequences to seek political gain. If she is not aware of the literature, she should be ashamed of herself for remaining ignorant on the topic she's running on.

This is not even up for debate. This was conclusively settled forty years ago and no new evidence has appeared to contradict it. That so many would support her says much about the ignorance and political bias of voters.
Posted by Sdysart90 on September 18, 2014 at 4:00 AM · Report this

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