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Wednesday, July 9, 2014

Video of Oscar Perez Giron's Fatal Confrontation With Police at Sodo Light Rail Station

Posted by on Wed, Jul 9, 2014 at 7:17 PM

SPD has released partial video from a surveillance camera of the June 30 incident—which I wrote about in greater detail here. The confrontation begins at about the four minute mark:

"It's painful [to watch]," says Giron's cousin, Michelle Aguilar. "I haven't been able to stop crying."


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ɥsɐןɯouǝʌ 1
It looks pretty clear to me. He tries to grab his bag and walk away, a security guy and the cop push him back against the wall, he pulls a gun on them, and the cop shoots him. Pretty open-and-shut by my eyes.
Posted by ɥsɐןɯouǝʌ on July 9, 2014 at 7:36 PM · Report this
Catalina Vel-DuRay 2
What an asshole. I hate to stoop to vulgarities, but what if he had shot and missed and hit one of those innocent bystanders on the platform?

The guy broke the law by stealing a ride and having a stolen gun in his possession. He sealed the deal by pulling it on the cop. All for a lousy $2.50
Posted by Catalina Vel-DuRay on July 9, 2014 at 8:00 PM · Report this
wockyjockey 3
@1 it's clear to you? I have no idea what I was watching
Posted by wockyjockey on July 9, 2014 at 8:08 PM · Report this
Good riddance homey. You're snatching wallets and iPhones in heaven now.
Posted by robot ghost on July 9, 2014 at 8:12 PM · Report this
@2 - don't forget that he was a convicted felon and likely facing prison time for possessing a gun.

Regarding his cousin, it's too bad that his poor choices caused his death, and continue to cause his family pain. Thank goodness both the deputy and the fare officer weren't shot by this violent felon.
Posted by Bax on July 9, 2014 at 8:14 PM · Report this
curtisp 6
And his pal who tried to grab the cop had a gun with two clips and 19 additional rounds of ammunition. They were out to hurt someone.
Posted by curtisp on July 9, 2014 at 8:35 PM · Report this
unknown_entity 7
Even if he was profiled for not paying the fare, ultimately it was his own mess. Not paying the fare risked drawing attention, something he should have wanted to avoid since he was a convicted felon carrying a stolen gun.
Posted by unknown_entity on July 9, 2014 at 8:37 PM · Report this
unknown_entity 8

At 3:55 he gets his right arm free
At 3:56 he reaches behind his back
By 3:58 he is now holding something in his right hand
By 4:00 you have seen flashes of what looks like a gun, which the other officers try to wrestle out of his hand.
Posted by unknown_entity on July 9, 2014 at 8:44 PM · Report this
Gordon Werner 9
@7 have you ever ridden link when the FEOs come on board? they don't pick and chose who to check, they start at opposite ends of the train car and check everyone in order working their way to the center

Posted by Gordon Werner on July 9, 2014 at 8:52 PM · Report this
Lew Siffer 10
I am always baffled by those who are say, transporting kilos of cocaine in a car without valid tabs, or current license/insurance. A felon with an illegal firearm who is too stupid to cover his bases by buying a train ticket. Hey man, what's your life worth? Not $2.50 obviously. Ah well, the taxpayer is spared.
Posted by Lew Siffer on July 9, 2014 at 8:55 PM · Report this
meanie 11
Whos going to the candlelight vigil for his right as an illegal foreign national to shoot the cop in the head because he didn't want to be arrested after committing a crime.

He was a role model according to his mother.
Posted by meanie on July 9, 2014 at 8:56 PM · Report this

And, of course, you side with the armed piece of shit criminals.
Posted by tkc on July 9, 2014 at 9:06 PM · Report this
@12: Who is siding with the criminals? The only thing any of us have said is that the law enforcement in the area hasn't earned our trust and we want to see the video.

I saw the video, sad, but the kid got what he was asking for.
Posted by Hanoumatoi on July 9, 2014 at 9:15 PM · Report this
As critical as I normally am of the police, I can't see what this officer could have done differently from the angle of the video.
Posted by Paul F on July 9, 2014 at 9:21 PM · Report this
@13 Who is siding with the criminals?

Ansel. Clearly.
Posted by tkc on July 9, 2014 at 9:50 PM · Report this
WFM 16
There were at least four officers on the platform. You have to ask yourself, what was their intent in going for their guns at that point? They would have killed every officer present and probably bystanders. Sociopaths. Good fucking riddance.
Posted by WFM on July 9, 2014 at 9:51 PM · Report this
Max Solomon 17
it's not "siding with the criminal" to say that i wish this incident hadn't ended with his death.

@7 is right - don't be a scofflaw if you're violating parole.
Posted by Max Solomon on July 9, 2014 at 9:56 PM · Report this
TheMisanthrope 18
Yeah...I can't fault the cops.

He pulled a gun on them, they saw the threat, they neutralized it.

Since it was 2 on 1, could they have done so without killing him? Possibly. But, if they failed to neutralize the threat without killing him, and one of them died, or somebody else got shot, they also would have been in the wrong.

This one is definitely no fun.
Posted by TheMisanthrope on July 9, 2014 at 10:02 PM · Report this
@15: by posting the video which confirms the cop's story?
Posted by Hanoumatoi on July 9, 2014 at 10:13 PM · Report this
Read the first article.
Posted by tkc on July 9, 2014 at 10:14 PM · Report this
@19: Within two days we'll have an article posted here about how the concept of fare enforcement is the real cause of this armed violent felon's death. Just wait for it.
Posted by doceb on July 9, 2014 at 10:16 PM · Report this
Eric Arrr 22
This one goes to show why audio video recordings of police contacts are so important. With something as senseless as an unpaid fare escalating to an officer-involved shooting, being able to review the evidence oneself goes a long way towards making sense of what happened.
Posted by Eric Arrr on July 9, 2014 at 10:19 PM · Report this
@7, yeah. An exact quote I've seen from a cop on the subject of catching criminals:

"How do you catch a murderer? 2 weeks later when he jumps a turnstile."
Posted by doceb on July 9, 2014 at 10:21 PM · Report this
Fuck Ansel, you posted a huge article about what "could've" happened last night. The least you could've done is summarized what the video showed so those of us who don't want to see someone get shot to death don't have to watch it to actually see what happened. Seattle's Only Newspaper? B fucking S.
Posted by j2patter on July 9, 2014 at 10:29 PM · Report this
@21, I'm waiting for Charles to suggest that it was inevitable, because most SPD officers are white.
Posted by ChefJoe on July 9, 2014 at 10:34 PM · Report this
This all stems from Sound Transit's bone-headed "honor system" fare submission scheme, which they reportedly couple with a sampling of about 10% of riders who are investigated for fare evasion without any reason to suspect those people of wrongdoing. In most cases, the only way any of those people can convince the investigators that he or she paid the fare is to hand over an electronic device that carries far more information than indication of whether or not that person paid for that trip.

The victim in this case may well have "paid" by swiping his ORCA card as required, but was simply unwilling to hand over arbitrary information on that card to the people who boarded the train to investigate everyone on it.

I fear for my own safety when I am someday confronted by a government employee on an "honor system" train does not honor my word that I paid when he comes around to investigate everyone on the train. I believe strongly in the 4th Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. Leave me alone to go about my business unless you've reason to suspect me of wrongdoing. My standing on a train refraining from talking to a guy in a Sound Transit jacket is not reason to suspect me of wrongdoing.
Posted by Phil M on July 9, 2014 at 10:54 PM · Report this
Gordon Werner 27
@26 ... if you are in the stations or on the train you are REQUIRED to show PROOF of payment when asked.

really preschool level stuff here.

Posted by Gordon Werner on July 9, 2014 at 11:02 PM · Report this
TheMisanthrope 28
@26 If you don't want to carry an ORCA card, you can always buy a paper ticket...
Posted by TheMisanthrope on July 9, 2014 at 11:03 PM · Report this
you're the type of person who shuns credit cards in favor of cash-only operations, aren't you?

The back of my Orca card says "Cards may be inspected on demand."
Posted by ChefJoe on July 9, 2014 at 11:11 PM · Report this
@27: Given that I am required by law to show proof of payment when asked, if I am asked to do so but refrain from doing so---whether or not it is because I never received any such proof---then I should be given the citation and either released if I agree to appear in court or arrested if I refuse or am reasonably considered to be a flight risk.

@28: Paper tickets for Sound Transit trains are not, as far as I know, ever collected, stamped, hole-punched, as evidence that they have been redeemed for travel. How would transit staff know whether or not a ticket I purchased had been redeemed for the trip on which I boarded or were destined for use tomorrow or next week?

If we're going to use the honor system, we need to trust people's honor. If not, we need to A) have staff or devices at station or vehicle entrances prohibit people from entering until they provide cash or a ticket, or B) have train conductors come around to accept cash or collect/stamp/hole-punch tickets after people board, ejecting those who do not pay or provide a ticket.

In the United States, people are supposed to be treated as innocent until proven guilty. It is inappropriate---likely unconstitutional---for agents of our government to go around and investigating everyone and treating silence as indication of guilt.
Posted by Phil M on July 9, 2014 at 11:16 PM · Report this
@26, If they find an Orca card that was scanned/used within the two hour transfer window or a paper ticket on the corpse of Oscar, maybe under the gun the convicted felon had carried onto a public train without a concealed carry permit, there will certainly be egg on the world's face for labeling him a fare-evader.

Personally, I think there should be more armed transit police riding buses, trains, and light rail keeping them safe for commuters and enforcing policies that the drivers seem hesitant to do (eating, using more than one seat, etc).
Posted by ChefJoe on July 9, 2014 at 11:17 PM · Report this
@29, Joe asked if I prefer to pay for goods and services with cash than to accept them on credit while sharing part of the value transfer with transaction processors and informing them of where, when, with whom, and for what, I engage in personal financial transactions. Yes, Joe, I do prefer to use cash. Visa and Mastercard are no friends of mine.
Posted by Phil M on July 9, 2014 at 11:21 PM · Report this
@31: The ends do not always justify the means. Your argument could be used to justify any unlawful search so long as it results in evidence of wrongdoing. Why do you hate America so?
Posted by Phil M on July 9, 2014 at 11:24 PM · Report this
So, Ansel will we be looking forward to a retraction of your previous reporting, that you completely bunged up? Perhaps there is a local community college with a PJ class that you could attend to brush up on your skills.

Also, will all those protesters being submitting payment now for the fares that they screwed transit out of? Transit sure could use the the that money these days.
Posted by Senor Guy on July 9, 2014 at 11:28 PM · Report this
Too many people continue to call this an Honor System, when it's no such thing. It's a Proof of Payment System, no "honor" involved. I've ridden the line probably a couple thousand times, and I've never seen Fare Inspectors behaving in anything but an honorable fashion.

As has been pointed out many times, they work in pairs (sometimes 3) and begin at each end of the car checking every rider in sequence. Not selecting some and overlooking others, no "profiling" whatsoever.

To be legal, you scan your ORCA card and the reader beeps at you to tell you your fare is valid; hell the screen even lights up with that message in words. You can buy your ORCA card with cash; no ID required.

Or use cash to buy a paper ticket that's time-stamped and good for a couple hours of riding. No ID required.

One of our commenters tonight has gone completely around the bend, creating the illusion of a problem out of whole cloth.
Posted by RDPence on July 9, 2014 at 11:56 PM · Report this
fletc3her 36
@35 And for most of us fare evasion is comparable to a parking ticket. You give them your ID and they issue a citation.

FWIW, I have seen "profiling" on the Portland light rail. The fare enforcement officers targeted a couple kids who they had reason to believe hadn't paid the fare and then checked a couple others on the car, me included, so it was "fair".
Posted by fletc3her on July 10, 2014 at 12:12 AM · Report this
At what point is The Stranger going to apologize for their past coverage of this story? The previous story linked to in this very post is so amazingly one-sided and Ansel happily quotes obvious falsehoods that were so trivially fact checked that people did it in the comments thread.
Posted by noodleslayer on July 10, 2014 at 1:19 AM · Report this
Looks like a good shoot to me. Sometimes cops really do face real bad guys. Sometimes they do have to shoot. Most cops have more balls than most of us being willing to take on that awesome responsibility of risking your life then dealing with the aftermath of the investigations, politics, and possible lawsuits. We probably end up with some bad cops because most normal people aren't be willing take the risks deal with the bullshit that comes with the job. We still need to weed out the bad ones. Ian Burke shooting the woodcarver, I think he should have gone to prison. I'm not universal cop lover. But I'm no universal cop hater. Nice shooting deputy, you did what you had to do. Scary to think how many other felons like this are sitting on the train illegally packing heat and you don't even know it.
Posted by hifiandrew on July 10, 2014 at 1:20 AM · Report this
@30: Paper tickets are one time use, good only for the day they are purchased. Also, are you saying that we need turnstiles and physical bars to entry/exit because that's more constitutional than a system whereby conductors come through a train checking people's tickets?
Posted by Hanoumatoi on July 10, 2014 at 1:26 AM · Report this
PS that female security guard should be fired. And not because she's female. I've seen male cowards and female warriors alike. But watch her, she stands there like a deer in headlights while this thing goes down and the 2nd suspect moves in toward the cop. She should have been all over the 2nd guy keeping him away from the cop. I know they're probably underpaid and undertrained security guards. But so was I. I made $8.50/hr at Southcenter mall as a security guard yet I still jumped in and helped Tukwila PD when they needed it.
Posted by hifiandrew on July 10, 2014 at 1:29 AM · Report this
@26 It may shock you to learn that Sound Transit already has access to everything you do with your ORCA card. They, after all, run the system.
Posted by giffy on July 10, 2014 at 2:13 AM · Report this
Fifty-Two-Eighty 42
It's heartwarming to see that, with the exception of a couple of radical, fringe kooks (Ansel and Phil M, I'm looking at you), all of the Sloggers here understand the difference between good and bad and are capable of seeing why this shooting happened. I'm proud of you guys.
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty on July 10, 2014 at 3:26 AM · Report this
All I have to say is your rude comments and critics don't bother me. I knew my cousin very well and I know for a fact he wasn't that stupid to ever pull a gun on an officer. I know alot of you folks that comment on reviews or updates on stories are always mentioning what seems to be "your opinion" but in reality you just find an excuse to be racists and complain. I know if this was another person from a different race you wouldn't be sitting here speaking straight nonsense. And just to infrom all of you that just LOVED TO JUDGE, he did have a valid Orca Card. So, what if he was illegal you should be thankful because without illegals who knows what this country would be like. Alot of you can't even do your jobs right, yet demand higher pay and someone that is undocumented is willing to work at any cost to provide. Last time i rememver this country belongs to the Native Americans not white folks so if Latinos are illegals so are you white folks. That's all i had to say. I am not gonna lower myself to your level. If i were any of you "people with sad lives and nothing to do" i would leave Ansel alone. He does his job and if you don't seem to like what he writes then DON'T READ IT!!!! Simple and easy...
Posted by Michelle_A. on July 10, 2014 at 5:26 AM · Report this
@43 - you know for a fact he wasn't stupid enough to pull a gun on the officer? Did you not watch the video of him pulling a gun on the deputy and pointing it at the deputy's head?
Posted by Bax on July 10, 2014 at 5:44 AM · Report this
And to Phil M - every commuter rail system in the country uses the same fare check system as LINK. Amtrak also has conductors that will check tickets. If it was "unlawful" as you claim, a court would have invalidated the practice long ago. But they haven't, because it's not unlawful.
Posted by Bax on July 10, 2014 at 5:50 AM · Report this
Sir Vic 46
@43 You won't lower yourself to their level by calling them all incompetent racists, which is exactly what you've done. At least they're not defending a habitual piece of shit.
It's OK to disown a relative who is a violent criminal. And it's mandatory to respect the rule of law in this country - you can't just ignore the law until it's time to abandon the ruins for another country.
Posted by Sir Vic on July 10, 2014 at 6:15 AM · Report this
@40 - especially when you look at what the other unarmed guard did. He fought with a guy who had a gun. That guy is a hero.
Posted by Bax on July 10, 2014 at 6:33 AM · Report this
@43, I don't think anyone here really cares about his immigration status. Mostly at issue was his status as an armed felon that was ready to shoot a cop.
Posted by doceb on July 10, 2014 at 6:34 AM · Report this
#43 - "last time I remember this country belongs to the native americans"

You sure do have a loooong memory!
Posted by Barmy Fotheringay-Phipps on July 10, 2014 at 6:44 AM · Report this
NotSean 50
@48 truth be told, many here would be looking for a way to blame the officers - given recent (and longer) history.

The video shows a different story; and I can almost hear the disappointment from the sloggers.
Posted by NotSean on July 10, 2014 at 6:46 AM · Report this
Cops shoot people (particularly people of color) and pets for absurd reasons quite often. I don't deny that. I also don't trust cops, and more often than not think they're to blame. But this isn't one of those cases. I'm sorry for the kid and his family, but he made a stupid decision. Pull a gun on the cops and odds are really good you're going to die, and in this particular case it's no one's fault but his own.
Posted by NateMan on July 10, 2014 at 6:59 AM · Report this
meanie 53
@43 it was racism that made your loving cousin carry a handgun, and decide his best option to avoid deportation was to shoot his way out of a transit stop with two cops.

Even the biggest libtarded social justice gun grabber dummies here agree, you pull a gun on a cop, you get shot.

I am sorry you're so confused because your cousin is dead, but he made that decision the second he tried to shoot someone.
Posted by meanie on July 10, 2014 at 7:50 AM · Report this
Gordon Werner 54
@43 he didn't have a valid orca card. if he did, he wouldn't have been escorted off of the train. the inspectors would just have gone onto the next passenger.

Everyone here is sorry that your cousin is dead, but that was his own fault ... not that of anyone else here.

Oh yeah ... if you are here illegally ... then you deserve to get caught if you chose to flaunt the laws/rules.
Posted by Gordon Werner on July 10, 2014 at 8:00 AM · Report this
@39, Hanoumatoi wrote, "are you saying that we need turnstiles and physical bars to entry/exit because that's more constitutional than a system whereby conductors come through a train checking people's tickets?"

That's a false comparison. You're probably thinking of the transit systems in which a conductor comes through a train to collect fares. With those systems, one either pays the conductor cash or redeems a ticket purchased earlier. The trade of either cash or a ticket happens on the train, not outside in the station or on the platform. New Jersey Transit, for instance, does that. Sound Transit doesn't do that.

Here, the transaction happens outside, before boarding. We trust people to perform this action prior to boarding, largely because we saved the expense of turnstiles or fare-collecting conductors. It's called--by Sound Transit--an honor system. But then, well after this transaction has happened and people board the train, Sound Transit sends staff around to investigate about 10% of riders for suspicion of non-payment, requiring everyone they investigate to convince staff that those riders paid under threat of ejection and police involvement. Those people in the faux-WSP uniforms are not conductors; they are security guards. They have no reason to suspect those people of wrongdoing. If they did, they should and likely would call the police.

If I am on a train, minding my own business, and I have paid the fare, and our government agents have no reason to suspect that I have not paid the fare or committed other wrondoing, they should leave me alone to go about my lawful business.
Posted by Phil M on July 10, 2014 at 8:08 AM · Report this
Hernandez 56
@42 uh, thanks? Like @53 said above, even people who generally, perhaps strongly support gun control and private firearms restrictions don't have a problem with law enforcement being armed for public safety.
Posted by Hernandez on July 10, 2014 at 8:14 AM · Report this
@45, Bax wrote, "Aevery commuter rail system in the country uses the same fare check system as LINK."

Wrong. Example: New Jersey Transit, where conductors collect fares on the train. Another: Chicago Transit Authority, where fares are collected my machines that allow someone to pass through a gate (a "turnstile") only after collection of fare.

"Amtrak also has conductors that will check tickets."

Sort of. Amtrak's system is in a bizarre state of flux. Not too many years ago, conductors collected fares on trains after departure. They've been airportifying their system in recent years, seemingly transitioning to a system whereby a person who purchased a ticket rather than the bearer of a ticket is authorized for carriage, with staff examining tickets outside the station as if they were boarding passes.
Posted by Phil M on July 10, 2014 at 8:18 AM · Report this
Posted by Phil M on July 10, 2014 at 8:19 AM · Report this
fletc3her 60
What is it about evaluating the particulars of each situation and waiting for evidence rather than assuming the authority figures are always right that our right wing friends can't seem to wrap their heads around?

Ansel's coverage of the fare protest was certainly sympathetic to the protestors, but they were actually there protesting.
Posted by fletc3her on July 10, 2014 at 8:47 AM · Report this
@57 - CTA isn't commuter rail. METRA is. You buy a ticket, typically off the train, and on the train a conductor punches it. That's the same system as in New Jersey on their commuter rail systems, and it's the same as Sounder.

Ironically enough, New Jersey transit uses exactly the same fare check system on their light rail system that ST does on LINK. Again, contrary to your assertions,such a system is not unlawful. There is a very simple solution if you do not want to go through a fare check: don't ever ride LINK.

P.S.: you suck at HTML tagging.
Posted by Bax on July 10, 2014 at 8:50 AM · Report this
I suggest we have a non-violent protest against people who aren't permitted by law to carry firearms bringing them on the public buses/railways/etc.
Posted by ChefJoe on July 10, 2014 at 9:08 AM · Report this
The byline on this follow-up should have read "Emily Litella", not "Ansel Herz".
Posted by RonK, Seattle on July 10, 2014 at 9:22 AM · Report this
Rotten666 64
@63 ZING!
Posted by Rotten666 on July 10, 2014 at 9:30 AM · Report this
emor 65

The fare enforcement officers come on the train and check everyone's payment. I show them the ticket I bought and they move on to the next passenger.

If this process is enough to set you into conniptions, how in the everliving fuck do you manager to negotiate the world at large?
Posted by emor on July 10, 2014 at 9:36 AM · Report this
seatackled 66

I'm sorry for your loss.
Posted by seatackled on July 10, 2014 at 9:40 AM · Report this
@60 For fuck sake. Ansel didn't wait for any evidence. The "protestors" didn't wait for any evidence.

In fact the so called "protestors" are still in steadfast denial of the evidence of their own eyes.

What do you want to bet the family will attempt a civil suit against Sound Transit and the City. Let's lay odds.

And that first article wasn't merely sympathetic to the "protestors," it was obsequious fawning.

Ansel immediately compares the shooting to Oscar Grant III. When other than happening on planet earth near train tracks there is little comparison.

An actual reporter would have found out that the deceased was a convicted felon of a violent crime, for instance. And that he AND his companion were both illegally carrying concealed handguns.

Instead he has this ridiculous spin that the shooting had something to do with "how authorities collect fares." They check EVERYBODY'S ticket.

BTW. Why hasn't the Stranger asked where and how these kids got their guns?
Posted by tkc on July 10, 2014 at 9:57 AM · Report this
@43, The video, like all security cam videos unfortunately, is pretty low quality but even if I hadn't read the story in advance and heard the cops story I would have probably said "it looks like that guy pulled a gun on those cops". The fact that his friend (from what I've read) was also packing doesn't help his case. Certainly there have been plenty of cases of police brutality and unwarranted shootings over the last few years, and of course the few hundred years before that, but this doesn't seem like one of them.

Presumably the cops have the gun as evidence, though it's easy enough to plant one after the fact, but the video seems pretty damning. Ask yourself what it would take for you to believe your cousin was carrying an illegal gun and pulled it on the cops. If nothing at all would convince you, then you're a fool and we're done here. If you're just skeptical of a blurry video and await further evidence I can totally understand that. Keep on supporting him until more evidence is in, but from what I've seen it's unlikely that he will be shown to be innocent.

As for his immigration status, I couldn't give half a shit. We need to overhaul our immigration system and find a better way to bring in workers to do the jobs so many consider themselves above but we need to do it in a way that doesn't lock those immigrants into a life of indentured servitude and poverty level wages. If he had an Orca card and had paid his fare then none of this would have happened. It seems a series of mistakes on his part led to his death. It's sad that he chose that path.
Posted by Root on July 10, 2014 at 10:15 AM · Report this
Damn Phil, you are one paranoid fuck. The "honor system" with a confirmation check of 10% of trains (let's be honest and stop calling it 10% of people as though they're picking out people on each train) is an affordable way of making sure most people pay their fares. We could do what Long Island Railroad does and have ticket collectors on every train every day and if they find someone who doesn't have a ticket they sell one at a higher price but that's extremely expensive and would drive up costs for everyone. Or, you can just hand them your ticket or ORCA card when you win the 10% lottery at which time you will be giving them exactly 0 information they didn't have except for the knowledge of whether you paid your fare for this trip.

Or, if you're too paranoid to show them your ticket you can just drive. Just be prepared that when a cop pulls you over he's going to ask for proof of insurance and registration (presumption of innocence notwithstanding) which gives him a lot more information than your ticket ever could.
Posted by Root on July 10, 2014 at 10:37 AM · Report this
If you go over to the other slog post, somebody just posted a comment that Perez-Giron is the prime suspect in a recent armed robbery of his friend, and was caught on camera using his friend's card. The plot thickens.
Posted by Bax on July 10, 2014 at 10:38 AM · Report this
@10 - it's fairly likely that the reason he didn't have fare is that the ORCA card he stole from my friend when he mugged him had just been cut off by the police because they had positively identified him as the mugger and didn't need to track him anymore.
Posted by sheapforwheet on July 10, 2014 at 10:42 AM · Report this
seatackled 72

You're not from the Seattle area, are you?
Posted by seatackled on July 10, 2014 at 10:57 AM · Report this
@66 is correct and it's unseemly to expect @43 to say anything more.

If in fact she family, then give her some room to vent, though I would point out to @43 that if you are listening, really, no one here cares much about his immigration status or ethnicity; he could have been a white guy from Medina and we'd say the same thing.

Posted by caution&daring on July 10, 2014 at 11:00 AM · Report this
@72 I'm not, I'm from Portland so I'm probably misusing terminology around the transit system. I have no reason to doubt the word of my friend and his boyfriend though.
Posted by sheapforwheet on July 10, 2014 at 11:10 AM · Report this
@70 that was me. Ironic that I posted directly underneath you. My friend was mugged recently and the cops were following his transit card and had pictures of a couple of guys, one of whom was using his card. When Mr. Giron was killed they saw the picture and immediately knew it was him. I have no idea if they've gone to the cops and I don't want to speculate on what the police were doing about his case.
Posted by sheapforwheet on July 10, 2014 at 11:14 AM · Report this
@74, his boyfriend ? If this guy was involved in a hate crime mugging then this will be front page SLOG news soon.
Posted by ChefJoe on July 10, 2014 at 11:29 AM · Report this
Joe Szilagyi 77
I've seen this asked several times today: why did these kids need their guns?
Posted by Joe Szilagyi on July 10, 2014 at 12:38 PM · Report this
@77 The better to rob you with my dear.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on July 10, 2014 at 1:02 PM · Report this
It's telling that Ansel presents this video with NO commentary -- which is pretty much a first for him. He's always ready to draw conclusions before the facts are in.

This time, total silence, because he jumped the gun so blatantly and now should be retracting his earlier posts.

But he won't, of course. What an embarrassment.
Posted by bigyaz on July 10, 2014 at 1:51 PM · Report this
seatackled 80
Subtlety may not be your strong suit. Linking to the previous post and quoting the cousin are pretty strong forms of commentary.
Posted by seatackled on July 10, 2014 at 2:01 PM · Report this
JF 82
@80 None of those posts were commentary on the video, which is what 79 was referring to.
Posted by JF on July 10, 2014 at 2:34 PM · Report this
@80 Ansel is about as subtle as explosive diarrhea. And his "journalism" smells about the same.
Posted by tkc on July 10, 2014 at 2:34 PM · Report this
seatackled 84
Okay, I see.

And you love it.
Posted by seatackled on July 10, 2014 at 2:40 PM · Report this
@43 Michelle, Oscar may have been kind to his family and maybe even on balance a good man. Fine, whatever. Tell me how that excuses his previous armed criminal behavior including the alleged robbery of one of our other readers. And especially tell me how it excuses *clearly pulling a stolen, illegally concealed pistol on law enforcement officers with the intent to murder them.*

I totally understand your grief, and I understand your disbelief. I'm not asking you not to love Oscar anymore.

But you don't get to choose your own facts. Your cousin was a thug who is dead now solely because he made bad choices. It wasn't immigration policy, it wasn't the transit police, it wasn't racism. It was his own willingness to murder that got him killed.
Posted by herrbrahms on July 10, 2014 at 2:54 PM · Report this
So wait, which dude got shot? The one they were wrestling with or the one that shoved the cop after his buddy pulled a gun?
Posted by Lack Thereof on July 10, 2014 at 5:05 PM · Report this
@ 86 The dude they were wrestling with pulled the gun on the cops and was shot. The one who got too close afterward was addressed by the cop wheeling around and pointing the gun at him until he backed up out of harm's way.
Posted by herrbrahms on July 10, 2014 at 5:41 PM · Report this
I'm pissed that I have to sit here and agree with comments from conservative posters. But let me say that I'm extremely hopeful about the lack of anti-immigrant/racist remarks.

I'm also getting more and more angry about the reporting on this story.
1. To imply that the light rail fare checkers are anything but even-handed in their duties is absurd. It's clear that the author has not spent any time on light rail and did not ask the opinion of anyone who has ridden light rail about such things.
2. In an incident like this you have two people at the very least that you should do some basic research on: the officer and the guy who got shot. It's evident that this was not done. You'd think that a reporter would cover these bases.
It sucks to be disappointed like this with The Stranger.
Posted by wasd on July 10, 2014 at 10:49 PM · Report this
89 Comment Pulled (Trolling) Comment Policy
Posted by ERIC 21 on July 11, 2014 at 8:32 AM · Report this
Posted by ERIC 21 on July 11, 2014 at 8:35 AM · Report this
Posted by ERIC 21 on July 11, 2014 at 8:36 AM · Report this
"... the June 30 incident—which I wrote about in greater detail here."
You did not, Ansel. You wrote about the protest in detail. There's no way you could've written about the incident itself, not unless you had a Harry Potter Seer Orb at your disposal.
Posted by cubicle jockey on July 11, 2014 at 10:54 AM · Report this
"Last time i rememver this country belongs to the Native Americans not white folks so if Latinos are illegals so are you white folks."

The U.S. and Canada belong to their respective citizens. Coerced or not, the indigenous peoples who inhabited North America prior to European settlement entered into legally-binding treaties with the United States and Canada, nation-states which today are fully recognized under international law.

Posted by R.J. Dunnill on July 11, 2014 at 10:42 PM · Report this
This guy was enough of a loser that even the cop haters sided with the cops.

@43. Your cousin is a loser and a criminal. Basically just a thug. And to pull Native-American racism card really? You bring up that you are Latino. Who cares? There are plenty of illegals from hundreds of countries living in the U.S. Why do you and so many other Latino's feel that Latino's are the only ones who are illegally here? Are you racist against the Asians, Europeans and Middle Easterners living here illegal?

Having had a family member murdered by someone here illegally, his legal status DOES MATTER. My family member would still be alive if the ILLEGAL ALIEN had been deported like he was suppose to be when he killed her. In this instance, your cousin would be alive as well because he wouldn't have been here in this situation in the first place. Then again, he probably would have just been a thug in whatever country he was deported to as well. Open your eyes. He wasn't a good person and he was a drain on society. Thank you to all the cops and public safety personnel out there for what you do and for getting this loser off the streets even though it was in a body bag due to his own actions.
Posted by MagnumPI on July 14, 2014 at 5:04 PM · Report this

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