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Thursday, May 1, 2014

Combatting Rape on College Campuses

Posted by on Thu, May 1, 2014 at 9:35 AM

One in five college-age women have been sexually assaulted—but that doesn't mean one in five college-age men are rapists. Amanda Marcotte:

No one is saying that the high rates of victimization among college women mean that all men are rapists. That one in five college women have been assaulted doesn't mean that one in five men are assailants. Far from it. A study published in 2002 by David Lisak and Paul Miller, for which they interviewed college men about their sexual histories, found that only about six percent of the men surveyed had attempted or successfully raped someone. While some of them only tried once, most of the rapists were repeat offenders, with each committing an average of 5.8 rapes a piece. The six percent of men who were rapists were generally violent men, as well. "The 120 rapists were responsible for 1,225 separate acts of interpersonal violence, including rape, battery, and child physical and sexual abuse," the researchers write. A single rapist can leave a wake of victims, racking up the numbers rapidly, as the victim surveys are clearly showing.

This cannot be emphasized enough: The high rates of campus sexual assault are due mostly to a small percentage of men who assault multiple women. Understanding this makes the problem of sexual assault on campus much less overwhelming and, hopefully, easier to accept and address. Women aren't running a gauntlet of would-be rapists when they go to a party or go out on dates. Most men they encounter are perfectly safe. This issue isn't about demonizing men as a group or scaring women into thinking men are inherently dangerous. The issue here is about eradicating the small group of predators on campuses that are continually getting away with their crimes.

Another stat that we're just starting to wrap our heads around: men are often the victims of rape—it also happens to our sons and brothers—and the rapists are usually often women.

UPDATE: A reader corrects me...

It's not accurate to say as you do, "and the rapists are usually
women." According to the source you link to: "46 percent of male victims reported a female perpetrator." So the rapists of men may as often be women, but "usually" implies a vast majority. Not to downplay the incidence of men being sexually assaulted, because I'm not, but laying the blame almost entirely on women is simply not factual and it will fuel the fire of MRAs trolls who descend on feminist blogs. Thanks.


Comments (61) RSS

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Max Solomon 1
SIX PERCENT? that's 1/20 guys. still sounds like running a gauntlet.

are there breakdowns of the types of sexual assaults that comprise the 1/5 number?
Posted by Max Solomon on May 1, 2014 at 9:37 AM · Report this
lark 2
Clearly, this needs to be addressed. However, the police investigating such crimes need to be held accountable as well. This article is regarding the botched case of Jameis Winston at Florida State:…

The detective should be fired and investigated. And, the investigation allowed to proceed although I believe it might be too late for the victim.
Posted by lark on May 1, 2014 at 9:44 AM · Report this
Fnarf 4
They know where they are, too: they're in the frat houses. Most of these rapes occur at or after or just outside of the giant frat parties, where everybody is completely wasted. The universities know this but they ignore it. A large percentage of the rapists are members of the football team, too -- people who by and large have no business coming anywhere near a college campus in the first place. Our college culture is a petri dish of sexual assault. I'll bet it's twice as prevalent as the numbers say, too.
Posted by Fnarf on May 1, 2014 at 9:57 AM · Report this
Tom Sackett 5
@1: The methodology and results section of the published paper in the link describe this pretty well. The questions were designed to get the most honest responses possible. They distinguish between intercourse and oral sex, between attempted and successful sexual assault, and the use of overt physical violence vs taking advantage of an intoxicated victim.
Posted by Tom Sackett on May 1, 2014 at 10:10 AM · Report this
@1, if you go look at the linked research, it shows that 6% of men admitted to committing at least one act that legally was rape (though the word 'rape' wasn't used in the question).…

Then the researchers followed up, and divided the 6% into two groups:
- 2% (of the total sample) had only raped once,
- 4% (of the total sample) admitted they'd done this more than once. Of those repeat rapists, they had an average (mean) of 6 rapes each; the median was 3 rapes; plus many other acts of interpersonal violence.

Given that the median was 3 and the mean was 6, that means that you could break that 4% number down even further, into two groups, to find the ones who admitted to committing many more than 6 rapes. It would be nice to get those mega-multiple rapists off campus.
Posted by EricaP on May 1, 2014 at 10:11 AM · Report this
Phoebe in Wallingford 7
Dorm rooms too, spring break, ski getaways, Greek row - anytime where there's lots of drinking, peer influence, good morals dissipate but I don't think you needed to add football to that mix, Fnarf.
Posted by Phoebe in Wallingford on May 1, 2014 at 10:14 AM · Report this
TheMisanthrope 9
I appreciate the reporting that men get raped too, even if it is just a footnote on a topic about female rape victims.
Posted by TheMisanthrope on May 1, 2014 at 10:21 AM · Report this
Indighost 10
@4: Assuming you're right, Who would go to a frat party and NOT expect excessive drinking and drugs and risky/violent behavior? It's the #1 thing that comes to my mind at the mention of the word.
Posted by Indighost on May 1, 2014 at 10:21 AM · Report this
Max Solomon 11
@6: I still find that 6% number shocking. even 4%. that's 1000's of men at a major public university like UW.

2013/14 enrollment: 43,763
48% men: 21,006
6% of that: 1,260.
4% repeat rapists: 840.

that's a lot of rapists.

further, 52% women: 22,756
20% victims of assault: 4,551

that's a lot of victims.

mind boggling numbers, and tough to accept at face value.
Posted by Max Solomon on May 1, 2014 at 10:27 AM · Report this
AFinch 12
@7 is correct - no doubt the hyper-macho sports have some self-selection bias for the more violent, but really these folks are everywhere and the same dynamic exists within sports groups as the general population (the predators are over-represented by their crimes).

I read the slate article - yes, that's definitely true when the accepted definition - that consent is impossible under the influence - is applied. The $64k question is whether, genders flipped, we are still so persuaded that definition applies.
Posted by AFinch on May 1, 2014 at 10:33 AM · Report this
AFinch, please don't derail this with the irrelevant issue of whether "consent is impossible under the influence." (And whether that applies to men as well as women.)

Regarding intoxication, these men answered yes to:
"Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated (on alcohol or drugs) to resist your sexual advances?"

These respondants believed their sexual partner did not want sex.
Posted by EricaP on May 1, 2014 at 10:57 AM · Report this
Max @11, have you ever asked your circle of friends (male & female) -- "did anyone ever have sex with you when they knew you didn't want to and held you down so you couldn't move away"?

(Note, not "were you ever raped?" Most people don't think of it that way because they don't want to see themselves as a "victim.") The first time I was held down during sex I didn't want was in high school, but I didn't think of it as rape until over a decade later, after someone else labeled it that way when I described what happened. I think it's very common to not call it rape when it happens to you (or when you do it to someone else -- knowing they don't want the sex).
Posted by EricaP on May 1, 2014 at 11:11 AM · Report this
Max Solomon 15
@14: No. That's not a question I would ask my women friends. But I'm male, and I'm not a pry-er. If they bring it up, I'm empathetic.

I don't have to ask my closer female relations (wife, sister, ex-roommate); I know what happened to them. And with Mrs. Solomon, I had to appeal to a 3rd party to convince her that, yes, she was assaulted.

And I know about a serial rapist of young boys, my HS Principal, who was never prosecuted. He's one of the 2%.

I'm not saying I don't believe these numbers, I am just appalled. I guess that's a non-rapist's naivete.
Posted by Max Solomon on May 1, 2014 at 11:33 AM · Report this
lark 16
@7 Phoebe,
I respectfully disagree. I believe football players and other male college athletes must be held accountable. In fact, the college football "culture" might aid and abet college rape as police might "overlook" such crimes because the player is a big name. I cited Heisman Trophy winner (who has more problems as of yesterday) Winston's case above as an example.

I also recall the case of Jerremy Stevens when he was at UW and after. It was alleged that he raped a college co-ed. The then Seattle P-I did a long article on his and other college football players' infractions at UW. So, I do believe college football players have some accountability in this rape crisis. Fnarf does have a point.
Posted by lark on May 1, 2014 at 11:36 AM · Report this
@11--those numbers sound about right to me. I fought off three attempted rapes when I was young, and among my female friends that was pretty standard.
Posted by Marrena on May 1, 2014 at 11:46 AM · Report this
keshmeshi 18

You don't think the culture of impunity has anything to do with it?
Posted by keshmeshi on May 1, 2014 at 11:47 AM · Report this
Oh, also, of the three who tried to rape me, I knew them all. The one that really got to me, a disgruntled ex-boyfriend--he looked me up decades later on Facebook wanting to get back together! He had totally forgotten.

Oh, also, when I was a small child a man tried to persuade me to get into his car.
Posted by Marrena on May 1, 2014 at 11:51 AM · Report this
seandr 20
"one in five college women have been assaulted"

Wait, are they saying 1 in 5 have been assaulted at college, or just at some point in their life?

In the latter case, I'm guessing step fathers account for a lot of those 1 in 5 sexual assault victims.
Posted by seandr on May 1, 2014 at 12:01 PM · Report this
AFinch 21
@13 - I was referring to the "women rape men just as often" article in Slate, not whether the men in the first article knew their victims hadn't consented to sex. I'm not questioning at all (or derailing) by suggesting that these women weren't assaulted just because they were intoxicated or didn't fight.

I actually do not believe there is nearly as much predatory behavior among women as among men, but I think our definitions are problematic an lead to headines like the one suggesting that women 'rape' men so much.

I've got access to the Sages article and the lines that leap out at me are:

It is most important that while 99 percent of women are sexually victimized by men, only 54 percent of men are victimized by other men, with the remaining 46 percent of men victimized by women


29 percent of men’s incidents are defined by NCVS as rapes and attempted rapes, while 42 percent of women’s incidents are rapes or attempted rapes.In addition, men are more than three times as likely as women to reveal in their narratives that they were drinking or using drugs prior to an incident (χ2 = 12.298, df =1, p < .001). While this finding may simply reflect the fact that more men than women use alcohol and drugs in general, it may also indicate that men are more likely to admit to being sexually victimized when they are intoxicated since alcohol impairs a victim’s ability to resist attacks and therefore provides a plausible explanation
for how it was possible for men to have been victimized in the first place (especially if the person overpowering them was a woman much smaller in physical stature and strength).

There's a lot more in there, but the point is that we throw out the word "rape" or "sexual assault" and push the common connotation in all sorts of directions in order to mold the political dialog, and wind up conveying things that are quite different from the original stereotypes.

In this case, pretty clearly, the common notion of rape - forcible penetration against your will - often by a stranger jumping you aggressively (I include random frat boys in the stranger definition) is definitely skewed heavily towards male perpetrators acting on female victims.

But you add the other definition and it gets interesting:

While the previous narratives depict rather vicious attacks, the majority of men’s rapes or attempted rapes resemble more typical “date rapes,” incidents that are perpetrated by dates and intimate partners and rarely result in physical injuries aside
from forced penetration itself. In addition, while there are certainly incidents of men being sexually coerced by male dates and intimate partners, the vast majority of date
rapes described in men’s narratives are attributed to girlfriends, ex-girlfriends, or female “friends.” For instance, the following narratives describe three scenarios of
date rape, all perpetrated by women.

Respondent brought another student back to his dorm room. Both had been drinking. Foreplay initiated and eventually intercourse without consent took place. The girl coerced him to have sex with her. He told the RA on his floor. He was offered counseling. The incident was not reported to the police. He had no further contact with the girl.(20-year-old)

Respondent took a skiing trip with a female friend. They both had been drinking. Respondent fell asleep. While sleeping his female friend attacked him, sexually forcing him to engage in unwanted sexual intercourse (rape). He did not report the incident to anyone but tried to deal with it personally. (23-year-old)

Respondent was in his bedroom at home when his ex-girlfriend who was still living in the house wanted sex and tried to force him (he considered it attempted rape). He
defended himself and got her out of his room. He did not report the incident to police. (54-year-old)

Maybe I suffer from culturally programmed bias, but whether or not we decide these things are rape, they aren't predatory with the threat of violence. The paper does give examples of those (generally male-on-male assault) as well and the contrast is pretty remarkable.

I think, in the interest of curbing sexual assault, we've seized upon the galvanizing imagery of forced penetration under the threat of violence and yet expanded the definition to include instances which are not the same.

NB - Stranger Staff, feel free to whack this if you feel it's outside of Fair Use Guidelines.
Posted by AFinch on May 1, 2014 at 12:03 PM · Report this
AFinch 22
@18 - I actually do not think the culture of impunity in sports has anything to do with it. I think there are a lot of perfectly decent guys and then some predatory violent types lacking empathy. I completely buy the notion that the latter are more highly represented among the top male athletes (there is a very notorious "Lacrosse Murder" which happened rather close to home which is pretty much the reference implementation of the type). Still, I don't think it's "impunity" which encourages people to become rapists - though it might make some fo them feel more at liberty.. In my view, that's like saying the death penalty is a deterrent to murderers.

I think Fnarf and Phoebe are correct that these predatory types migrate to the best hunting grounds for them.
Posted by AFinch on May 1, 2014 at 12:12 PM · Report this
Fnarf 23
@19, I'm sorry those things happened to you.

People should read this:…

Or just google fraternity rape or fraternity death and be amazed at the sheer number and variety of hits you get. Hey, here's Edwin "Kevin" De Boer, a frat president at the UW, accused of raping another woman, his second, after slipping her drugs, just last year. The first time, he was sentenced to 15 days community service. That's less than I got for stealing a package of tobacco almost 40 years ago.

This behavior is endemic: it is not just common, it's built into the system. You can't take the rape out of the frats without taking the liquor out, and you can't take the liquor out without taking away the frat's reason to exist.
Posted by Fnarf on May 1, 2014 at 12:29 PM · Report this
Posted by AFinch on May 1, 2014 at 12:37 PM · Report this
Why is this a surprise? Look at how Michael Jackson admitted to sleeping with young boys and grooming them and feeding them Jesus juice. He is a cultural icon and revered and complimented daily around the entertainment industry. No one cares that he raped children. Even rape victims didn't rise up to call for Jackson to be held accountable. I work with juvenile sex offenders in residential treatment and one of the first things therapists have to do is to teach them that what they did was rape. Society teaches boys that unless a knife is used, or a knock-out drug is used ( alcohol doesn't count in their minds) or a beating precedes the penetration, it ain't rape. I see kids from all across the socio-economic spectrum. After 22 years, it seems to be getting worse, in my experience.
Posted by kwodell on May 1, 2014 at 12:45 PM · Report this
Max @15 thanks for explaining; I misunderstood your "tough to accept at face value" as disbelief.

AFinch @21, thanks for all that. I'm confused to read that "99% of women are sexually victimized by men." Presumably, that means 99% of the women who have been sexually victimized were victimized by men, but even so, it leaves me with a lot of questions:

What's the definition of "sexually victimized"? And does it refer to 99% of incidents?

Or could it mean that there's a lot of comorbidity: women who have been victimized by men, but may also have been victimized by a female acquaintance along the way. The 99% number just seems way high to me.
Posted by EricaP on May 1, 2014 at 1:00 PM · Report this
"46 percent of male victims reported a female perpetrator."

So it's not accurate to say, "and the rapists are usually women."

The rapist of men may as often be women, but "usually" implies a vast majority

Not to downplay the incidence of men being sexually assaulted, because I'm not, but laying the blame almost entirely on women is simply not factual.

Posted by judybrowni on May 1, 2014 at 1:06 PM · Report this
AFinch 29
@26 Presumably, that means 99% of the women who have been sexually victimized were victimized by men,

Yes, that.

What's the definition of "sexually victimized"? And does it refer to 99% of incidents?

I'm not actually wanting to be snarky, but yes, that was my point...what does "victimized" mean? At this point, as far as I can see, any unwanted sexual contact is "sexually victimized".

In this case, whatever the definition of "sexually victimized", for female victims, 99% of perps were men, 1% of perps were other women. Contrast that with the Male-on-male 54% (where did Dan get that "majority are women" line?) and it's clear that men are the predominant violent predators.
Posted by AFinch on May 1, 2014 at 1:10 PM · Report this
@11 Thanks for the numbers. Back of the envelope, if we assume (please god let this be true) that every rape victim was only raped once, and each by another student, then
(4551-1260)/840 = 3.9 rapes per Repeat Rapist (RR)

That's lower than the 5.8, which includes women the RR targeted before and after college. Women raped by non-students would mean 3.9 was an overestimate and RR were more "active" pre- and post-college.
Posted by wxPDX on May 1, 2014 at 1:57 PM · Report this
Collin 31
@29, I agree (and Dan corrected) that, based on this study, the majority aren't women. However, without seeing the data and finding out if the distinction is statistically significant, its not a clear that men are the predominant violent predators. You could argue that they are the predominant violent predators OF WOMEN, but, if those numbers are different due only to sampling chance, you could not say that men are the predominant violent predators OF MEN.

In large part, much of this new information is coming to light because researchers expanded the definition of rape to a more reasonable scope. It would be interesting to know if this same scope was applied to encounters between women, and what would happen to the numbers in general if we expanded the scope to include non-penetrative forms of sex.
Posted by Collin on May 1, 2014 at 2:07 PM · Report this
In my opinion, these studies are all hard to interpret. 7.8% out of the 19% (almost half) were what the authors called AOD assaults, assaults where the victims is unable to give consent because they were unable to provide consent or stop what is happening because she is passed out, drugged, drunk, incapacitated, or asleep and where the drugs or alcohol were self-administered. Ok. So, first of all, I am not going to blame any victims or anything. I only make that distinction because the other cases, where the victims were given drugs or alcohol without knowledge or consent, are obviously and unarguably cases of sexual assualt. But, part of that 7.8% are women who got drunk and chose to have sex (possibly with an equally or even more drunk guy) where there was no coercion or force of any kind, just a drunken hook-up. I have a problem calling those instances sexual assault (especially where both parties would be equally guilty of sexual assault), and it is always really hard to tell what precentage those cases make up. I think this is also part of the reason for the rise of the numbers of men saying they have been sexually assaulted. It seems like women are much less likely to commit sexual assault by force, but not really much less likely to use alcohol to take advantage of someone or start something with someone who is sleeping or passed out. And every drunken hookup can be counted as two victims/two assaulters depending on how the participants feel about it after the fact.
Posted by brent.b on May 1, 2014 at 5:04 PM · Report this
LaSargenta 33
@ #1, no, 6% is >not< 1 in 20 guys, it is more like 1 in 16-2/3rds guys. Or, like 3 in every 50. Which makes it even worse.

Posted by LaSargenta on May 1, 2014 at 7:45 PM · Report this
It's a little hard to believe that anyone is serious about dealing with the issue of sexual assault unless you are willing to deal with the problem of excessive drinking by college students. And that's a topic university officials are reluctant to deal with because most schools want a reputation as a "fun" place or they may have trouble attracting customers (did I say customers! I meant students.).
Posted by moom on May 1, 2014 at 9:35 PM · Report this
@32 I agree that the 2010 National Intimate Partner and Sexual Violence Survey asked a stupidly phrased question: "When you were drunk, high, drugged, or passed out and unable to consent, how many people ever had vaginal sex with you?"

But it's not fair to say: "these studies are all hard to interpret." The other study doesn't have that problem because the relevant question asks about instances when the man believed his partner did not want sex:
"Have you ever had sexual intercourse with someone, even though they did not want to, because they were too intoxicated (on alcohol or drugs) to resist your sexual advances?"…
Posted by EricaP on May 1, 2014 at 11:30 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 36
Holy Horseshit, Kevin (Hannah Rosin) is fucking ignorant, and not just because of the point he referenced; attempting to claim that "molestation" is downplaying rape.

I think it's great that another dumb fucking journalist found a counterpoint, but writing that garbage for the sake of it being and interesting counterpoint as opposed to seriously researching why males will inevitably cause all societies to fail, and how are we going to get these fucking idiots to quit lying to themselves and wake the fuck up.

38% of sexual crimes do NOT happen to men

That is a crock of shit, and to clarify on the "molestation", because I did write a while back that when a woman engages in sex acts on a sleeping or passed out man, that it's not rape unless she penetrates him.

And it sad that there are authors publishing on the subject when they're confused about what is rape. There is a subtle difference between rape, and the sexual offense of not realizing the person you had sex with was too drunk to consent.

perhaps it would help to explain rape without the sex acts used to define the boundaries of meaning

The act of "rape" is an act where the perpetrator forces his will on the victim. Violating the victim's personal and private space despite knowing full well that it is not desired. It is to not respect that each and every person an an autonomous individual, is the ONLY person who can rightfully decide who they will share themselves with. A person's body is theres, and rape is an act that does not respect that sacred sovereignty and violates it, simply because he can. I believe all sexual crimes are serious, and it is not that offenses which are not rape is any less serious,

they are all serious crimes

But it is not "rape" until he violates the sovereignty that is not his, simple because he can. Another way to explain it, would be the stupid fucking jounalists and IT workers, who do not respect a person's right to have their own private digital space, and despite their protests, and that only the owner of that private digital content can rightfully give permission to share it, they violate that private space simply because they can.

Rape has more to do with the power imbalance, wherein the rapist has the superior physical strength, or superior knowledge, and uses that advantage to violate the others. It is failing possess honor and respect of sacred sovereignty, simple because you have a situational advantage

Whether it by physical size and strength, or that they are passed out drunk and you are not, or they do not have the technical know-how, a rapist is a person how cannot respect sovereign spaces when they are advantaged.

a rapist is nothing more than some dipshit who ultimately can comprehend why the power to do something, does not give him the right.

a non-rapist is someone who fully understands that concept.

and back to whoever the asshole was who published the bullshit "study" or "research" that dumbass journalist printed as fact.

Both her and the "researcher" fail to recognize the difference between innocence of a child, and the knowledgeable adult. They are different crimes, and the major discrepancy is that the innocent does not always understand they are being violated, which often causes the most damaging psychological harm that one can inflict. It leads to a confusion that can be impossible to deal with, from my perspective, it's is worse in the long run when the victim didn't realize they were being violated

And this asshole political researcher should probably go back to school and learn to count so that he (Kevin) can get the math right next time.

The reason any knowledgeable person can call bullshit on the 38% of sexual crimes being against men (notice dipshit said men) is because if you took all sexual offenses, as in occuring at any age from birth to death, and ran the gender statistics of the victims, it would be around 90% of the victims are women, to about 10% being men.

What asshole manipulator of facts should have said, was that out all molestations of children younger than ten, out of all of those incidents --- of children younger than ten being molested, roughly 38% were boys --- which could actually mean any number that asshole believed should be rounded up to 30, like 21,

Go fuck yourself, dipshit
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 2, 2014 at 2:07 AM · Report this
@26 - 99% of women being sexually victimised by men at least chimes with experience. Do you know any women who have not been sexually harrassed or sexually assaulted by men? I don't.
Posted by misspiggy on May 2, 2014 at 2:13 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 38
@21: I actually do not believe there is nearly as much predatory behavior among women as among men, but I think our definitions are problematic an lead to headines like the one suggesting that women 'rape' men so much.

The rapists out there who had the good luck to be born female thank you. You, and the multitudes of people like you, are what give these rapists their license to operate.

All nonconsensual sex is rape. All of it. This study doesn't even go that far, because they believe it's only rape if the victim gets penetrated, and that if a victim is forced to penetrate a rapist, it is mysteriously transformed into not-rape. If you look at their actual data, and remove that assumption--and treat all instances of forced sex as rape--then yes, most rapists of men are women. The study defines rape narrowly enough to exclude the kind of rape that female rapists usually perpetrate; this does not un-rape any of the survivors of their assaults.

But really, your stance is about infantilization. Women can't be predators, right, because they're just so childlike and innately harmless, right? Fuck that noise. Women are people. When a woman rapes, it's rape, and she's a rapist.
Posted by Eudaemonic on May 2, 2014 at 6:30 AM · Report this
While I agree that we're dealing with a small number of predators for the most part, I don't think we should downplay the importance of what ordinary men think. "Yes, it's still rape if she's drunk." "Yes, it's rape even if she made out with him five minutes ago." "No it wasn't true when his dad/uncle/coach said 'No means maybe and maybe means yes.'"
Posted by DRF on May 2, 2014 at 6:31 AM · Report this
From an article in Brown University's campus newspaper, about a rape case (… ):

"The University has on file a letter that this person has assaulted another woman on this campus but does not acknowledge it in their decision-making process because the rapist objected to it being included,” Sclove said. Kopin’s objection was in line with University policy on reviewing sexual assault cases, which stipulates that new cases cannot be utilized as supplemental information to ongoing analysis.

Because multiple allegations apparently _aren't relevant_.
Posted by erinwithans on May 2, 2014 at 7:53 AM · Report this
McJulie 41
@34 I don't know where you get the idea that universities want a reputation as a "fun" (heavy drinking) place. The problem is more often the opposite -- in order to NOT have such a reputation, they often pass draconian anti-drinking laws that drive all the drinking behavior underground and off campus, where it becomes much more excessive and dangerous.

The people who are serious about wanting to bring college drinking under control are the people arguing for the return of the 18-year-old drinking age. What you want is college kids having a couple of beers in the campus pub, not drinking spodie at the off-campus frat house.
Posted by McJulie on May 2, 2014 at 11:09 AM · Report this
@35 - Agreed. I am guilty of a vauge and misleading use of the word "these." I meant to say the studies that claim x% of men or women have been sexually assaulted. I see now the they sounded like I meant the two studies referenced in the post, but that isn't what I meant. My bad. I have no issue with the other study.
Posted by brent.b on May 2, 2014 at 12:01 PM · Report this
@35 - The bigger problem is that it isn't just one stupidly worded question in a survey. It is the way that people are increasingly defining "sexual assault." The trend is to adopt the framework of that question as the definition of sexual assault.
Posted by brent.b on May 2, 2014 at 12:09 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 44
It's sad when ignorant people-- especially males --fail to comprehend simple concepts as that is what leads to dipshits not being able to recognize the root of the problem after any significant length of time has passed

anything that wasn't nipped in the bud, males appear oblivious to the root cause of the problem

It blows me away when people like Kevin, and edumaenic do fail to see that molesting a child and raping a person are nearly equal in regards to the nature and severity of the crime committed.

Why a person needs to have different actions labeled with the same name in order to treat them as equal, is not only beyond me but also pisses me off.

The difference between right and wrong is not rocket science, and dumbing it down so that journalists can score political points or dipshit males can believe the lies they tell themselves in order to remain blissfully ignorant; is exactly why the typical male mentality destroys livability or civilized societies.

So while Afinch pisses me off with his typical male irresponsible employment of subtlety, it is preferred to eudaemonic's ignorant belief that calling all the wrongs ways for a situation to progress and result in sex acts are called "rape" as in the act of RAPE and not the word which is evidently meaningless to these two boys

The problem is NOT that not enough people are calling -- or even believe -- how drunk sex can be considered an act of rape.

and foolishly believing that that is part of the problem, is part of the problem

Yes the statistic that claims only 5%-10% of men are predatory rapists may be accurate, those despicable, piss-poor excuses for placing value on life are easy to recognize as part of the problem

It's the fact that most people cannot recognize the nature of this problem about the difference between right and wrong coupled with showing respect in instances where you do not love -- or in some cases don't even like -- other people. Respecting another person's sovereignty when you do not have to, which by definition makes that VOLUNTARY

you know what that means, right?

it makes doing something by choice, as opposed to only doing something when forced against your will

I fully understand that a night of moderate to heavy drinking, wherein the two drunk people engage in sex that is a considered a crime, is a complicated situation.

But it is NOT hard to understand, even with all the complicated factors that are claimed such as how a person can "black out" yet not be passed out (which most people have an easier time understanding that sex with an incapacitated person is a sexual crime)

If really isn't hard t understand how drunken sex may not seem like a crime took place until the next morning, when minds sober up and people begin to realize how much unknown control was exerted over the situation, and easily they were coerced into doing something against their will.

What makes it wrong is the fact that the respect for a person's will is not present. It's the salesman belief that it is OK to make sales to people who say originally say they are going to pass on the deal.

What would make such a sales less of a crime is what happens after the fact. When the customer comes back with buyers regret, is the salesman genuinely sorry? Does he take the product back and refund all or as much of the money as he can?

Only the thing is that when we are talking about sex and a person's faith in others, you can't simply refund was taken or exchanged

I get that many of the situations that are part of the problem, happen because of boys engaging in sex that they can't comprehend is wrong, but the thing is, that just like eudaemonic wants to believe that labeling all sexually crimes "Rape" as opposed to classifying the sexually crimes as rape, too many men couldn't give a rats ass if when their date sobered up, realized she didn't make wize decisions

TOO MANY MEN don't care whether a women feels like she made a mistake by engaging in sex -- even if not intoxicants are used -- too many men see agreeing to sex as just closing a deal by obtaining consent

It's that view, of all legal sales (or consent to sex) as being right in all cases just because that is the delineation used to draw boundaries for law

the bottom line is men must respect women, as it is the root problem (not having respect) that is why we live in a rape culture society

It's one way or the other, you get your laws written out in clear unambiguous terms in a Constitution, or you can have the King or Queen dictate to you the boundaries of LAW

and either way there will always be some idiot male who just doesn't get that without respect for others whom you do not love,


go fuck yourself Kevin & eudaemonic
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 2, 2014 at 3:37 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 45
there are always going to be the obvious criminals, they are easy to deal with, civil society has effective ways to deal with blatantcy, the problem is the subtle fact, that too few men voluntarily respect the sovereign rights of others.

They lie to themselves and justify their disrespect in the name social justice. Some very sick individuals even justify publications such as junior's article in the name of equality.

These authors couldn't give a shit about the Truth of the matter, and if they did, they would publish the Truth.

The bottom line is that those who do not voluntarily respect sovereignty if they have the power to violate when they choose to, need to be returned to their original state of absolutely no power over anything.

It's that lack of voluntary respect that marks their True home as that at the bottom of any hierarchy

While it may be true that not all men who refuse to voluntarily respect women will commit sex crimes, it IS the fact that they do not voluntarily respect women that allows the 5% obvious criminals and their ways to become the "culture" of the entire group.

We live in a rape culture society because of this lack of respect

It allows for Swarm Idiocy to be accepted

In those cases it is easy to see the obvious perpetrator, but it is the swarm of idiot men who through subtlety, make it impossible to effectively deal with the problem

Posted by Dirtclustit on May 2, 2014 at 5:38 PM · Report this
TCLballardwallymont 46
Give it a rest Dirtclustit.

We get it, you think males are the problem. A man and a women get equally shitfaced drunk, have sex, and feel equally bad about it the next day. According to you thats all about the man not having respect, because shit babble babble garbage crap.

Whatever. Type another overly long, semi-literate tirade about how intelligent you think you are.
Posted by TCLballardwallymont on May 2, 2014 at 8:45 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 47
No, babble ballard, it's not all about the male's disrespect until they don't give a rats ass that about the their actions, which is not to

"feel equally bad"

It's hard to understand the problem, dipshit, when you choose ignorant bliss.

If it were the case that men were completely innocent and didn't realize the sex was against their partner's will, and

"felt equally bad"

then the current situation would never be that such a situation could ever be considered a crime.

And these days, dipshit, that is exactly what drunkin sex can be considered (as a crime)

assholes like you may not consider it a crime until the next day when the victim sobers up and realizes it was against her will

but the problem has it's roots in not respecting the victim long before the crime ever took place

go fuck yourself, or at least post under one profile
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 2, 2014 at 9:33 PM · Report this
TCLballardwallymont 48
Uh huh. Got some persecution complex going on there, don't you?

As I framed it (I'll put it here again, you seem like short attention span may be a problem) - A man and a women get equally shitfaced drunk, have sex, and feel equally bad about it the next day.

Now, it seems as though you make a whole lot of assumptions from that statement. The women might have anally penetrated the man with a broomstick. The woman might have still been horny and drunk after our guy passed out, and simply straddled him.

But you made a ton of absolutely baseless assumptions, to make a scenario with no detail fit into your monomaniacal worldview and misandry. "The victim" will wake the next day, and realize it was against -her- will.

It's always the males failure to respect, any who disagree with you are dipshits, you can't form a coherent paragraph, the victim is always female, the rapist is always male... need I go on?

Do yourself and your community a favor - find some professional mental health counseling.
Posted by TCLballardwallymont on May 2, 2014 at 10:12 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 49
I don't judge you for not being able to comprehend, although I know that you can comprehend, yet choose not to

for a situation wherein a woman and man get drunk and end up having sex, and the male truly didn't take advantage or manipulate the situation, as is evidenced by the events if it were the case that they "feel equally bad"

that drunkin sex I would not consider a crime

and we a talking about sexual crimes, not cases wherein no crime was committed

if guess you were simply stating that when no crime is committed, there is no crime, because it was not committed

gee, thanks Einstein

don't you have an article that slanders Muslims and women that was due yesterday?

Posted by Dirtclustit on May 2, 2014 at 10:23 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 50
and no dipshit, the victim is not *always* female and the perp is not *always* male

but people who claim to honestly care about ending the rape culture we live in, know that the problem is not women

they know that the problem is not about the 5% of men who commit the most violent and no questionable whether or not force and against the victim's will, rape crimes

the reason we live in a rape culture and why it is a problem that was nearly impossible to solve, is the asshole men like you who deny the truth

the problem is men, their problem is failure to respect a person's sovereign rights

I'll give it a rest when men quit doing it and start respecting people and spaces even though they don't have to

as it is, men are either too stupid to understand that having the power does not give them the right

or else they know full well, and just don't care

Posted by Dirtclustit on May 2, 2014 at 10:35 PM · Report this
TCLballardwallymont 51
That or you have some serious mental health issues which cause you to see the world through a filter of misandry, and twist everything into rape and "rape culture". Good luck with that.
Posted by TCLballardwallymont on May 2, 2014 at 10:42 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 52
you're right,

women share 38% of the blame, because according to dipshit propaganda authors who believe it is either right or funny to publish bullshit statistics that 38% of sexual crime victims are men

and then the asshole tabloid journalists publishes it from a female profile

yeah blah-blah-ballard, dipshit and people like him are not part of the problem

fuck off and go slander religion, at least angry atheists -- even though they are still in the wrong for not recognizing the real problem -- at least those asswipes are persecuting males that have done something

women have done nothing to deserve this except for carrying each and every person alive for nine months uncomfortably inside them

go fuck yourself
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 3, 2014 at 12:07 AM · Report this
TCLballardwallymont 53
mmm hmmm.

Tell us more about how demonizing half the human population in the name of your batshit crazy persecution complex is wise, and makes you intelligent.

Better yet, tell them ->…
Posted by TCLballardwallymont on May 3, 2014 at 12:16 AM · Report this
Dirtclustit 54
Not half the population, just the asshole males who don't respect personal private places

and those responsible for allowing them to shape our culture in regards to sex and women

Posted by Dirtclustit on May 3, 2014 at 12:31 AM · Report this
TCLballardwallymont 55
Mmmm hmmm.

A simple google search of "Dirtclustit" reveals that you're a wacko who's been banned from various forums for your nonstop misandry and abusive manner.

Seriously, go here ->
Posted by TCLballardwallymont on May 3, 2014 at 12:46 AM · Report this
Dirtclustit 56
Banned from a grand total of one forum because I got into with the same dipshit journalist that doesn't respect personal, private digital space, over the fact that he believed subtle racist slights were humorous, I thought he should show some integrity and grow a spine.

seriously, you should go fuck yourself, and get back to writing slanderous articles about Muslims
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 3, 2014 at 2:09 AM · Report this
TCLballardwallymont 57

You keep on encouraging hatred against Muslims. Why do you hate the followers of Islam as well as men?
Posted by TCLballardwallymont on May 3, 2014 at 3:28 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 59
Uh oh, now trudi junior is pissed, oh fucking well
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 3, 2014 at 9:06 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 60

I thought that's what all you tabloid journalists do
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 3, 2014 at 9:09 PM · Report this
TCLballardwallymont 61
When did I become a tabloid journalist? Did the voices no one else can hear tell you that? Perhaps black helicopters beamed that into your mind?

Possibly your mind simply blew a gasket when you tried to make sense of the well written, thoughtful article posted by #58 and realized how pathetic yet another abusive misandrist tirade would appear?
Posted by TCLballardwallymont on May 3, 2014 at 10:53 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 62
was I wrong?

Have you never published any of the bullshit propaganda claiming that the world is in danger of having Shariah Law imposed against our will?

I noticed you didn't say you weren't a journalist, and you don't have to actually write for the inquirer to be a "tabloid journalist"

It's just a journalist who doesn't give a shit about the truth, the chump publishing under the pseudonym and pseudosex author Hannah Rosin, is a tabloid journalist.

So rather than "when did I become" the tabloid journalist, are you, or are you not?

Don't stress, there is no reason to be honest, just be yourself, and keep up the bullshit stories, and the joke that is your views, will coincide and fit like a glove to the joke of factually news most of slog articles are

You are not the only idiot, who doesn't comprehend that males are the problem, and my harsh tone doesn't help the situation, but what the fuck, when someone finally does try to put the word out, yet for dipshits like you and good ol anonymous 58, the PSA wasn't gentle enough, and puts idiot men on the defensive

The subtle sabotage of the video's title wasn't good enough for ya?

"one is two many public service announcements"?

for all I know, the video itself is just more bullshit, I haven't bothered to check it out to make sure it isn't typical Slog bullshit, bored overprivileged ivy league grammarians who enjoy the passtime of foolish the gullible public.

I don't have time to swift through what is bullshit and what's not in regards to slog shit posts, but this subject means a lot to me because so few women have not been sexually assaulted.

I didn't have to do anything more than read Kevin's bullshit "Hannah Rosin" article to fully understand it was horseshit, he is a tabloid journalist

so correct me if I am wrong, show me the shit that you write, and if I am wrong I will admit it.
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 4, 2014 at 3:12 AM · Report this
Catalina Vel-DuRay 63
To a lot of society, I think "rape" means the classis TV movie scenario: grabbed on the street late at night, or some stranger breaking into an apartment. Anything else unwanted is unfortunate, but not "rape". And I also think that a lot of people - and particularly men - can't or won't face the fact that they were indeed raped.
Posted by Catalina Vel-DuRay on May 4, 2014 at 6:50 AM · Report this
Dirtclustit 64
Holy Shit Blah-blah-tally-wacker -- and you are most definitely a tabloid journalist (political schmuck who employs lies and exaggerations in attempt to sway readers' beliefs)

I normally don't read anonymous comments, but I did read 58 only because I wanted to see an example of what you believed was

"...the well written, thoughtful article posted by #58...."

That anonymous fool is a racist punk who holds the exact same point of view that is responsible for America's rape culture. If that was actually printed in the letters to the editor, then whoever chooses which letters get published, is either THE dumbest motherfucker alive


just another tabloid journalist, just like you ballard wally

to Catalina,

Kevin's, bullshit article had nothing to do with what he actually believes rape is, although it's hard to tell because the dipshit only writes one way, which is to write in a very, very manipulative manner, which is why he always includes outright lies or fabricated real life stories. Just because something the bullshit he uses as examples are not impossible, and could happen, writing from a point of view that claims matter-of-fact, as in claiming to be the experience of a real live person, is a prime example of tabloid journalism
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 5, 2014 at 1:58 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 65
Now I see Slates dumb joke, and where 58 got his statistics, that shitty old "bro rape" video

The video may be comical, but only because it doesn't happen, referencing that when the topic is real life rape and sexual violence is just asshole
Posted by Dirtclustit on May 6, 2014 at 9:10 AM · Report this

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