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Tuesday, February 11, 2014

SL Letter of the Day: What a Kackass

Posted by on Tue, Feb 11, 2014 at 5:49 PM

I am married with kids and I've been having a long term (3+ years) affair with a friend who lives out of town so actual sex has been sporadic, sometimes fraught, and I tried for a long time to make myself end it. I love my husband. My kids are incredible. I love them deeply and I don't want to get out of my marriage. I do, however, have an incredible passion for this guy. And it's been deeply troubling and blissful and scary and great and hot and terrible and stupid and guilt-making and sexy. He is not a family man but has an on again/off again girlfriend to whom he's committed—but only because he can't be with me, he says. She lives in the same city where I live. He will be living here soon. She's a terrifically uninteresting person but she's a serious care-taker (let me do it!) and she has a cute "dancer's body" and is something of a hottie and she has unquestioningly loved this guy even though he's dumped her, not taken her out (because people will realize she's a bore), and has fucked her forever without ever once telling her he that he loves her. So she's sort of an idiot. But he LOVES to fuck her. AND I AM SICK WITH JEALOUSY. Which means I'm risking so much—the honesty of my marriage, my kid's emotional health, my own emotional health—to be with a guy who loooooves to have sex with someone else! He came to town this weekend for work and obviously stayed with her but we made a plan to get together in a hotel on the first day he arrived. I was so excited. We love each other so much, the passion is so intense. We've planned our meeting—and the sex we would have—for weeks. And then I suddenly ask myself, "Do you think he'd fuck her before seeing me?" He gets in on the red eye, goes to her apartment, and then, after she leaves for work, he meets me in the hotel for six hours of sex. Okay? Then I call him and ask him, "Please tell me the truth: Did you sleep with X this morning?" The answers is YES. He fucked her three hours before meeting to fuck me all day. When we next meet in person he tells me he has often fucked her the same day as fucking me. I am so jealous and saddened by this I nearly vomit. I cry all day and still fuck him and of course he swears I am so wonderful and that fucking her JUST HOURS BEFORE FUCKING ME doesn't take away from how much he loves fucking me. And I am thinking I'm an idiot. He is with a woman he loves to fuck. And me. And I am hot and all that too. And its hot. But it's so devastating. Now I am with a man who loves to fuck another woman and my marriage—which is so amazing in a hundred way but SHIT MONOGAMY SHIT SHIT it's hard—is now trashed because I have been lying to this wonderful guy, my husband, who I don't want to fuck all the time but who ALWAYS goes down on me and gives me thundering orgasms and is seriously brilliant and insightful and wonderful. And this relationship, the one with my husband, even if I GO BACK TO IT and STOP THE AFFAIR is now fucked up. And I am just dejected and sad and feel totally guitly and lost and alone. Is this guy a kackass for the sloppy seconds treatment or is he just a lucky fucker? And should I tell my husband? My shrink told me not to tell him! She said it would hurt him too much and she wanted me to get over the idiot affair but nearly four years in... and even with the humiliation of sloppy seconds... I still feel, well I feel utterly fucked and utterly alone and I don't know what to do!


My response after the jump...


A few short years ago I would've opened my response to your letter with this: "And... you can get married and I can't." But, hey, I can get married now—I am married now—so I don't have to open my response with gripes about the cosmic unfairness political injustice of it all. Instead I'll leave the griping to queer commenters living in states (come on, Oregon!) or countries (come the fuck on, Australia!) that have not yet achieved marriage equality.

Okay, WLAA, on to you and your problem...

So. The other woman. The care-taking hottie/bore with the dancer's body? How can you state with certainty that your lover has never once said "I love you" to Hottie Bore? You don't know that, WLAA, and you can't know that. And I'll bet you anything you like that your lover says "I love you" to Hottie Bore just as often as he says it to you. More often, WLAA, if Hottie Bore will be paying his rent once he moves to the city where you live.

Now why would a man who was honest enough to tell you that he fucked Hottie Bore hours before he fucked you lie about whether he said "I love you" to her? Maybe because he knows you attach great significance to being the only woman to whom he says "I love you," WLAA, so he lies to you, lest he have one less place to park his dick.

But here's what I don't get: You love your husband—you say you love your husband, at any rate, and I'm going to take you at your word—and you love this other dude too. So you know it's possible for a person to be in love with more than one person at the same time. Why then, WLAA, are you placing so much importance on your lover not being in love with this other woman? Why can't he be in love two women at the same time, for different reasons/qualities/amenities, just as you're in love two men at the same time?

La la la. What a shit show. Anyway...

I agree with your shrink: Don't say anything to your husband. Because odds are good that your relationship with the lying user will wind down just as soon as he moves to town. The more you see of this guy, I'm thinkin', the sooner you'll see through this guy.

But your problems won't end when this affair does. If I may quote you: "SHIT MONOGAMY SHIT SHIT." You are not cut out for monogamy—clearly—and guess what? Your lover isn't cut out for it either. THAT'S WHY HE'S FUCKING OTHER WOMEN. And now that you know this fact about yourself, WLAA, I think your husband has a right to know. I wouldn't recommend going into detail about your affair, as that may end your marriage and turn your children's lives upside down. Instead I would recommend that you have a talk with your husband about cheating and monogamy as abstractions. Say something like this to your husband: "Affairs happen and I would hate to see our marriage end—and I would hate to be deprived of those thunderous orgasms you give me—over something so stupid and commonplace as an affair. So if you ever cheat on me, honey, I don't want to know about it. Just do it discreetly so you don't mess up our marriage and our family life. And I'll do the same."

Giving that little speech doesn't provide you with retroactive immunity—you're still a CPOS—but it'll provide you with a some butt cover if and/or when your husband finds out about this affair or any one of the affairs you're going to have in the future.

And finally, WLAA, I'm pretty sure it was a typo—the J is right next to the K on the keyboard—but I love the term "kackass." I plan on using it constantly.


Comments (117) RSS

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undead ayn rand 1
" But it's so devastating. Now I am with a man who loves to fuck another woman"

Posted by undead ayn rand on February 11, 2014 at 6:01 PM · Report this
chimsquared 2
on board with "kackass."
Posted by chimsquared on February 11, 2014 at 6:12 PM · Report this
Dan, you should have stopped at shitshow.

And I think the "you know, if you wanted to cheat it would be fine with me if I just don't know about it. And how 'bout I do the same mmmmkay?" approach does not apply here. She's already a CPOS, if she wants a pass for future affairs, she should own up to this one first. What if the wonderful husband says no? Is she going to stop? If she comes clean after trying that approach, it'll just make her look like an even bigger CPOS. What if the wonderful husband says ok and then - gasp - really loves fucking someone else?! I can't see that one going over too well.

And yeah, the boyfriend on the side is definitely telling his gf "I love you", and probably allowing her out of the house too. There might even be a personality to go with that cute little dancer's body (no!!). She's not the biggest idiot in this game.

Posted by genevieve on February 11, 2014 at 6:19 PM · Report this
There's a third woman that he's not telling either one of you about.
Posted by treehugger on February 11, 2014 at 6:25 PM · Report this
Alanmt 5
La la la. What a shit show.

To be a hypocrite is to be human. Which means that this woman is one of the most human creatures on the planet.

Hey, if the guy is virulent - ummm, make that virile - enough for two in a row, why not for three? Would love to see the emotional meltdown when she realizes she's not getting sloppy seconds, but dirty thirds.
Posted by Alanmt on February 11, 2014 at 6:28 PM · Report this
@4 ftw
Posted by Kansas boy on February 11, 2014 at 6:31 PM · Report this
Dougsf 7
I think a rhetorical "soooo... what do you think of cheating? I'm asking... for a friend" conversation will go a long way toward confirming what I imagine the husband already suspects.
Posted by Dougsf on February 11, 2014 at 6:32 PM · Report this
Ugh. What a shit show. Dan she tell her husband to DTMFA.
Posted by David from Chicago on February 11, 2014 at 6:32 PM · Report this
Should tell. Fucking iPhone.
Posted by David from Chicago on February 11, 2014 at 6:33 PM · Report this
persimmon 10
I get the impression this woman is trying to self-sabotage. I feel bad for the thunderous-orgasm-giving husband--here's hoping he's getting something through the backdoor before she sets this shitshow on fire and waves it in his face.
Posted by persimmon on February 11, 2014 at 6:39 PM · Report this
When this whole shiteshow blows up in your face, make sure to tell your kids you are fucking their lives because of OMGFEELINGS you have for somebody else. I'm sure they'll understand.
Posted by Irresponsible Much? on February 11, 2014 at 6:39 PM · Report this
WLAA -- the guy you are 'dating' sounds similar to several guys I know.

He's bad for you. He likes the power trip you give him. He gets off on the secrecy, he's dishonest to himself about his real desires because it's handy for him on some level or another. I promise you if you try to end this affair (which he keeps cycling through reward/withheld reward cycles -- a great way to control a victim, btw!) he will come up with all kinds of ways to have you wrapped around his finger, and penis in an email or two.

You need away from this guy in a big way. BIG WAY. Shut down whatever email account you have that he uses. If your husband asks, tell him something convincing along the lines of "oh, I used this account for anon web activity, but it's gotten waaaay too spammy to use for even that. ." Change your phone number and make sure you don't import his number into your phone. Set it up to block unlisted numbers from calling or texting you. Again, come up with a believable excuse.

Also, spice up sex with your husband. Your husband loves you, Mr. Loverboy doesn't. He'll tell you whatever he wants to tell you to get at 'dat ass' but he's lying, straight up. Your husband trusts you and wants you by his side. Loverboy only trusts you as far as he's controlling you and wants you underneath him.

Exceise him from your life with extreme prejudice. You'll feel so much more sane in about six months. I promise. With my pinky.
Posted by MameSnidely on February 11, 2014 at 6:41 PM · Report this
The problem here isn't monogamy: it's a particularly virulent form of narcissistic, delusional "other woman" syndrome.

Not all paramours of marrieds have this syndrome, but some do....

She gets off on being better than the "boring dancer"

If it was all above board and she understood the lover valued his gf, OP would not feel superior.

She has to be better...the woman with the magic pussy and stunning personality.

She's the special snowflake! There can be only one.

If - gasp - her lover puts his public gf before her and actually treats the public gf properly it means that op isn't so special as she thought.

This isn't about the strictures of's about female self image built on being a better lover and partner than a specific competing woman,

This woman isn't EricaP here....OP is all about me, me, me.

Don't even get me started on how she would react if husband was fucking someone else.

Christ, Dan, this woman is a CPOS and a narcicist. Your advice will only make this implode sooner and with more shrapnel hitting innocent parties.
Posted by ABW on February 11, 2014 at 6:45 PM · Report this
sperifera 14
Dear LW's Husband:



Posted by sperifera on February 11, 2014 at 6:49 PM · Report this
@13 -- I definitely see that reading as well, but I still think that Loverboy is an abusive loser and has MADE this situation about that through subtle but effective mental manipulation. There are sparks of a better, confused person in her letter, IMO.
Posted by MameSnidely on February 11, 2014 at 6:51 PM · Report this
I Hate Screen Names 16
She should divorce hubby and propose to Loverboy. Those two deserve each other.
Posted by I Hate Screen Names on February 11, 2014 at 6:57 PM · Report this
venomlash 17
Fake; if there was a guy who could fuck for 9 hours out of 24 in a day we'd have heard about him and his radioactive nads.
Posted by venomlash on February 11, 2014 at 7:00 PM · Report this
forcrimeinitaly 18
G-zus, what a clusterfuck. LW's husband deserves a lot better than her.
Get tested, for the love of god. Dude is likely sleeping all over the place. If not for yourself, do it for Mr. Thunderous Orgasm. He doesn't deserve a cheating wife and VD.
Posted by forcrimeinitaly on February 11, 2014 at 7:00 PM · Report this
sirkowski 19
Christ, what an asshole.
Posted by sirkowski on February 11, 2014 at 7:03 PM · Report this
@17 Venom -- I took that to mean snuggling/cuddling/mutual massage/etc. However, if it was straight on screwing for 9 hours... o.O
Posted by MameSnidely on February 11, 2014 at 7:11 PM · Report this
@15 perhaps he's also a gaslighting asshat. I have seen that as wel IRL.

I wish Dan would realize a few things that jump out at me...maybe he just doesn't have the experience w American women being TOWs to see it.

Who is her letter most focused on - herself, her husband, the lover, or the lover's GF? What does the order of priority here say?

Is the GF a rival, insignificant to her, or necessary collateral damage? Or something else?

Does she see the lover as guilty of any wrong or a victim of his GF?

Does she see herself as guilty of any wrong or a victim? If a victim, of who or what?

Who does OP think are the innocent parties here, if any? How would she rank order the moral and social worth of all parties? Her measure of worth of all parties?

How does the state of her marriage relate to her affiar?

This is a crystal clear to me from what she's written and how she's written her narrative.


I can't tell you about lover boy from this letter. He may or may not be a gaslighting asshat.

I can tell a lot about her, however....

And letter writers always write their narrative from the pov that casts them in the best light...if this is the best she can do, the yikes!

Posted by ABW on February 11, 2014 at 7:14 PM · Report this
@20 that was my reading as well...

Particularly if he fucked proper GF he's not able to properly fuck her because of it.

So he chose proper GF and her pleasure over OPs pleasure.

She got put in her place as second and she doesn't like it.

Also, we don't know all the ages. 4 times a day at 22 is different than at 52.
Posted by ABW on February 11, 2014 at 7:18 PM · Report this
@11 I'm sure if she's this clueless, she's not winning any mom of the year awards.
Posted by ABW on February 11, 2014 at 7:20 PM · Report this
She sounds delusional. I think @13 has the read of it. Her wonderful husband should dump her and take the kids on the grounds that she is ... Jesus, I have some issues, I respect mental health stuff, but at some level it's just a mental clusterfuck.
Posted by wxPDX on February 11, 2014 at 7:23 PM · Report this
This is a shitshow, but I can actually see how this can happen without thinking her a total asshole and thinking she doesn't at least deserve the ole college try at finding a way out.

There are lots of things wrong. Shes lying to her husband. Shes lying to herself. Her fuckmate is using the hell out of her. So break it down!

#1 stop fucking him. You are getting off on the approach avoidance of the illicit nature, the danger etc. You need to get your danger thrill in a more sane way. So stop fucking this guy. He doesn't have to be an asshole, fucking other people, if you are in such turmoil that you wrote the letter, stop fucking him.

#2 Don't tell hubby. He might know. He might not want to know. but telling him now before you grow up is going to likely explode unless your hubby is a secret cuckold.

#3 get your danger sex WITH your hubby's knowlege AND help. Ask him about things like swing clubs, threeways, blowing him in the car etc. Ask him HIS sexual fantasies, his real deep and dangerous ones, the ones he's afraid to share with you because... well because. And DO THEM!!!!! SHort of bestiality, permanent harm, etc, DO THEM. Enjoy even more thunderous orgasms and maybe the excitement he will feel might replace the bad but exciting feelings cheating gives you.

When we opened up our relationship, I didn't tell my wife about anything in the past. I did let her know there was a past but more important, there had to be a future where I could get my danger sex with her knowlege and participation if she wanted. It was scary. But after our argument, I called a Dominatrix with her there. And she had fun. Tonight we are deciding if she wants to do two guys in front of me or join another woman in dominating their hubbies {ie me and the other lucky fuck}. And we are living honestly. She knows Istill need to see Dominatrixes and she can't get her head around other parts of my dark desires. But she is happily living out a life she thought would disgust her when we started on the road to honesty or divorce.

I got lucky. You may not. But at least try to be honest and if you get divorced, you know you tried. Because going on like you are doing now, you are going to get divorced as sure as I am going to lick my wife's pussy to thunderous orgasms before some guy shoves his dick in her and fucks her silly.
Posted by wine-o on February 11, 2014 at 7:25 PM · Report this
@7 bingo
Posted by freshnycman on February 11, 2014 at 7:36 PM · Report this
seandr 27
I really feel for this woman. I mean, how could two men who say they love her put her in such a difficult position?
Posted by seandr on February 11, 2014 at 7:37 PM · Report this
seandr 28
@7: I'm kinda thinking that's the point.
Posted by seandr on February 11, 2014 at 7:40 PM · Report this
seatackled 29
Well, I'm glad for the LW's sake that the boyfriend doesn't travel to any other cities. She'd be such a mess if he did.
Posted by seatackled on February 11, 2014 at 7:52 PM · Report this
seatackled 30
Also, maybe she needs to get a sex positive therapist instead of the judgmental one she has.
Posted by seatackled on February 11, 2014 at 7:53 PM · Report this
seatackled 31

Actually, what really impresses me is that--assuming the Other Woman works regular hours and maybe takes an hour to get ready for work--the boyfriend arrives from the redeye and fucks the Other Woman from 3:00-6:00 AM.
Posted by seatackled on February 11, 2014 at 7:59 PM · Report this
What a shithead. I have no words.
Posted by puddles on February 11, 2014 at 8:15 PM · Report this
lolorhone 33
WLAA: You are both assholes. That you built a family around this perfectly avoidable shitpile of a situation- i.e. you could have told your then-boyfriend now-husband monogamy is not your thing before commitment or kids ever became an issue- makes you a bigger asshole than him no matter how many other women he's fucking (and there are at least a few) or how soon he's fucking them before he's scheduled to fuck you. That is all.
Posted by lolorhone on February 11, 2014 at 9:06 PM · Report this
It might almost be an interesting intellectual exercise to see if there were any way to convince Husband that LW thought he was trying to hint to her that he longed to be cuckolded above all things, but that might just be a bit too much.

However unpleasant a divorce might be for the children, it cannot be a good thing for them to continue to have LW inflicted upon them until their minorities end. At least a separation immediately, please.
Posted by vennominon on February 11, 2014 at 9:12 PM · Report this
What a shitty shrink. If I had to listen to this bullshit every week, I'd lean over the couch and smack you upside the head with a trout. Holy self-absorbed.
Posted by hurrdahurr on February 11, 2014 at 9:20 PM · Report this
SoUt 36
I think it's weird when a therapist tells you to do or not to do something.
Shouldn't he help her figure out what she wants to do? Also this
LW is wasting a ton of energy on this cluster fuck that has nothing to
Do with her kids or her husband really. As a mother of two, I am constantly
Wondering how moms have time for affairs, not to mention all this drama.
If you're gonna do it, only do it if it's easy. That a way you won't neglect
Your family. And your kids will come home for holidays when they grow up.
Posted by SoUt on February 11, 2014 at 9:23 PM · Report this
Michelle Maibelle 37
All three of the people in this shitty love triangle sound like terrible people.
Posted by Michelle Maibelle on February 11, 2014 at 9:39 PM · Report this
Ernie1 38
I feel sorry for the kids, they are clearly 3rd or 4th on the list of things that the LW gives a shit about, a couple places behind the gal she's getting sloppy seconds behind.
Posted by Ernie1 on February 11, 2014 at 10:32 PM · Report this
@38, I'm not sure her kids even rank THAT high.
Posted by hurrdahurr on February 11, 2014 at 10:40 PM · Report this
WTF woman. I don't care if that other bitch looks like Jabba the Hut and has Bill O' Riley's personality, just cause you get to lord over some other woman the knowledge that you've been invited to their partner's dick doesn't mean you're better than them. In fact it says more about you than them that you would even go there. Now to the important part- you have babies?! Damn, you are a stupid bitch. You'd risk the future and feelings of your children (not to mention your relationship with them) to get some on the side? Think about that. Then go over all the awesome things you just said about your husband and compare it to how you've acted while you're at it.
Posted by Really Now... on February 11, 2014 at 10:54 PM · Report this
Sargon Bighorn 41
There are hetero-men that like women for only one reason, sex. Otherwise they want to hang out with men doing men things. This woman has met one. These sorts of Hetero-men are very confusing to Str8 Women and Gay men. They grow very attached to the male friends, but never too close, and they screw their women friends, but never get any closer. The sooner she understands that he wants her for only one reason, the better off she will be.
Posted by Sargon Bighorn on February 11, 2014 at 11:39 PM · Report this
Now I feel that I may have been a bit too harsh, but I do wish the children and husband were featured a bit more prominently. Anyways, just walk away. Hell everyone in this scenario sounds like they'd do well to give each other some distance. While you're away from this clusterfuck nurture the relationships you've taken for granted AND yourself.
Posted by Really Now... on February 11, 2014 at 11:51 PM · Report this
"We love each other so much, the passion is so intense."

No, your boyfriend doesn't love you. Your husband probably does, the poor fuck.
Posted by Amanda on February 12, 2014 at 12:00 AM · Report this
sissoucat 44
Alas, that kind of thoughts and behaviour describe the real-life CPOS women I've met. How they come to hate on their lover's cheated-on partner and to compete with her in their own minds is so depressing.

Hey, girl : you're dickmatized. Jump off that dick for good and most of your problems will be gone.

Then atone for your terminal stupidity of feeling jealousy towards your dick-on-the-side main partner, by not getting any dick-on-the-side for one year straight. Don't worry, you'll still have masturbation and fantasies to help you along.

And then, one year from now, once you've become a better partner than ever and a better mother than ever, have the conversation Dan advised with the husband. But if you want to give both your marriage and nonmonogamy a chance, make sure your husband indeed has had one intense affair, before you ever use his permission to fuck around. Then own up to having formerly been a CPOS, and hopefully he'll pardon you and you both will be non-monogamous ever after.
Posted by sissoucat on February 12, 2014 at 12:51 AM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 45
One of these things is not like the other, one of these things just doesn't belong... I see three narcissistic people that deserve each other and one person getting totally hosed.

WLAA's therapist is hired by her, so therapist's advice is to keep things in her life okay. That doesn't mean it's good for everybody. Dan also is doing his best for WLAA. She did write to him for advice. I doubt seriously Dan's advice will change anything. It's pretty milk-toast, want-to-have-it-all-ways, like the LW.

This won't end well. The only thing to make it the least painful is for MLAA to confess all. Hubby should know that he's married to a CPOS and can then decide if he's okay with it (and possibly freeing him for his own sexual freedom) or if he wants to waste any more time in a relationship that is a big lie. He deserves someone is that isn't completely selfish, and his kids deserve to be raised by an adult, and not an emotional adolescent.

Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on February 12, 2014 at 12:58 AM · Report this
My BS meter is off the scale on this one. This is written by a delusional straight boy with pretensions.
Posted by JJinAus on February 12, 2014 at 1:08 AM · Report this
Why do people say that there are three narcissistic people? I only see two.
The gf and the husband are blameless as far as I can tell.
Posted by migrationist on February 12, 2014 at 2:02 AM · Report this
@13: Don't even get me started on how she would react if husband was fucking someone else.

I think this is a real problem with Dan's advice: she really would not be okay with her husband having a piece on the side.

@47: I'm mystified by that too. Husband and girlfriend, from what's in the letter, are just naive about their partners. Her shrink advised against going nuclear on her husband and in favor of breaking up with someone who causes her to go through these insane mental perambulations, which is... kind of exactly what SLOG and Dan came out with, so I don't get where it makes the shrink sex negative. Any time you're ranting about how wildly inconsiderate it is of your secret piece on the side to fuck his other piece on the side before you can get to the hotel, disengaging would seem sound advice.
Posted by IPJ on February 12, 2014 at 5:18 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 49

Just... wow.

I give it three weeks before she's stalking her piece-on-the-side's girlfriend and killing her pets.
Posted by Eudaemonic on February 12, 2014 at 5:47 AM · Report this
AFinch 50
@6 +1

@14 - runner up.

Yikes she is scary. There's a black hole of need.
Posted by AFinch on February 12, 2014 at 5:53 AM · Report this
@49 wins.

@36 I doubt the therapist told her what to do in quite those words. That's what she heard, but then again....

SHIT ketter [sic] writer be crazy SHIT SHIT
Posted by delta35 on February 12, 2014 at 5:55 AM · Report this
@27 wins the Internet today.
Posted by Clayton on February 12, 2014 at 5:57 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 53
Being more serious, I think Dan is largely wrong here--honest nonmonagamy requires being honest with your partner(s) and being accepting of them having the same freedoms you want for yourself, and pretty much the only things we know about LW is that she's incapable of either of those.
Posted by Eudaemonic on February 12, 2014 at 6:08 AM · Report this
I don't know. Maybe being single isn't all that bad.
Posted by parisimo on February 12, 2014 at 6:15 AM · Report this
I can't read this through. I got a paragraph before I'm thinking her next move is to put on adult diapers drive 19 hours straight to wherever the other woman is and threaten her.

What the fuck is wrong with people?
Posted by former tri-state on February 12, 2014 at 7:53 AM · Report this
WLAA - if you want to get caught being a CPOS then take Dan's advice and say "So if you ever cheat on me, honey, I don't want to know about it. Just do it discreetly so you don't mess up our marriage and our family life. And I'll do the same." The first words out of your wonderfull, talented tongued husband will be "so who the fuck are you fucking behind my back, bitch?" You'll lie, WLAA, and say "no one" and your hubby will pretend to believe you for about as long as it takes him to download the history from your cell phone, or take a few hours off work to see where the fuck it is you go for six hours in the middle of the day. So if you want to get busted, WLAA, then go ahead and take Dan's advice.

A few other Pinnochioisms I picked up from your letter - "He has fucked her forever without ever once telling her that he loves her". I'm sure he's told you that, i'm also sure he's told that same line to the personalityless dancer's bod chick, and to the other half dozen or so gals he's shagging when he's not with you and the dull dancer. Here's another - "I'm risking so much - the honesty of my marriage". WLAA - the honesty of your marriage evaporated 4 years ago when you shit all over "this wonderful guy, my husband, who I don't want to fuck all the time but who ALWAYS goes down on me and gives me thundering orgasms and is seriously brilliant and insightful and wonderful". And yet another "we love each other so much". I'm sorry, WLAA, but this guy doesn't love you and I don't think you really love him. Actually, it sounds like you don't even know that much about him if you believe his lines of bullshit.

Here's a couple of truths I recall from your letter - "She's an idiot" and "And I'm thinking I'm an idiot". I'd have to say yes on both counts.

Here's what I'd do if I were in your position. First, I'd break all contact with this guy for at least 6 months. After that, if you really want an open marriage, I'd say something like this to your husband while he's in the middle of giving your one of those thundering orgasms "Honey, I think it would be so hot to watch you do this to another woman". Assure him you can handle that and he go the extra step of setting it up for him. Then, after he's had his fun, tell him it's your turn. After that, you might want to take the next steps toward bringing up the open marriage concept to him. However, I have a feeling, WLAA, that if the shoe were on the other foot, you couldn't or wouldn't tollerate your husband banging some other chick, even if she were "dull" like Dancer girl. You'd probably be "SICK WITH JEALOUSY" over the very thought.
Posted by Ibentrudaropes on February 12, 2014 at 7:55 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 57
@56: if you really want an open marriage, I'd say something like this to your husband while he's in the middle of giving your one of those thundering orgasms "Honey, I think it would be so hot to watch you do this to another woman". Assure him you can handle that and he go the extra step of setting it up for him. Then, after he's had his fun, tell him it's your turn.

That's a scummy way of getting an open relationship. It would still be a huge step up for the LW, though.
Posted by Eudaemonic on February 12, 2014 at 8:19 AM · Report this
@48 IPJ

Given that she's irately jealous over her BFs treating his legitimate partner better than her (I suspect she'd be pissed at anything other than GF being used and deceived and treated badly), there's no way she wants husband to have anyone but her.

She gets off on the superiority and hurting the GF. She gets off on Lover hurting his GF because of her (she's so superior she causes it).

That's why evidence e of BF treating his GF well is so hard for her.

Husband couldn't have an honest OW because there'd be nothing in it to feed OPs ego. And if husband had another woman, it would mean OP wasn't as awesome as she thinks she is.

This is why LW spends so much of her letter trashing GF. She has to for her own self image.

She needs therapy for her selfishness and narcissism. Not an open relationship.

As for her kids, they barely register!

Posted by ABW on February 12, 2014 at 8:23 AM · Report this
@56 no way this woman will go for that. She wants to be the star, not the audience.
Posted by ABW on February 12, 2014 at 8:25 AM · Report this
@57: I agree it's a scummy way of getting an open marriage, but she wants to preserve her marriage because she genuinely loves her husband and wants to protect the family, which includes the kiddos. Unfortunately, most of society isn't quite ready for the brutal truth when it comes to issues of sex. I don't see any way for her to tell her husband the real truth, not only about what she's done, but about what she wants for the future - some occassional stray dick, without it ending the marriage. Nobody wins by her being brutally honest here. What does her husband get from brutal honesty? Divorce, hurt, resentment, a broken family. On the other hand, like Dan has said many times, maybe the husband has been thinking of eating out the hot little number over in accounting while he's giving his wife those thunderous orgasms, but he's afraid to bring it up to her because she is such a faithful wife and all. She's in the position she is in, she fucked up, who hasn't? What's the best outcome for everybody?
Posted by Ibentrudaropes on February 12, 2014 at 8:42 AM · Report this
A_Charmed_1 61
I think it would be totally awesome if we found out that WLAA's husband was fucking the dancer . . . oh wait . . . this is not a soap opera . . .
Posted by A_Charmed_1 on February 12, 2014 at 8:52 AM · Report this
@61 - it would be even awesomer if we found out the WLAA's husband was getting fucked by her out of town lover and that the out of town lover actually told WLAA's husband everytime he fucked him that he did indeed love him!!!
Posted by Ibentrudaropes on February 12, 2014 at 9:08 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 63
@ 60: I don't see any way for her to tell her husband the real truth, not only about what she's done, but about what she wants for the future - some occassional stray dick, without it ending the marriage.

The problem is, that's not what she actually wants--she's already getting that, and she's still miserably unhappy because her stray dick is also getting some stray pussy. She's so miserable that she's obsessing about the other man's other woman, and obsessing about the sex life they have. "Stray dick without destroying her marriage" is not what she wants.

Nobody wins by her being brutally honest here.

There's a huge gap between brutal honesty and pulling the "you agreed to do X for me, so that means you consent to me doing Y" bullshit; that's a scummy thing to do. People who do that rightly look down on people like the LW, but they're still treating their partners shittily and dishonestly.

Honesty doesn't have to be brutal. Asking for an open relationship doesn't have to be deceptive, even if it doesn't come with disclosure of past infidelities. If you're going to take a threesome as a license to sleep around--and to coerce your partner into accepting it--you need to tell your partner that before the threesome happens. Not after. That's not how consent works.

She's in the position she is in, she fucked up, who hasn't?

Most people don't fuck up the way LW has, because it's actually very easy to not be that much of a shitbag. She could be honest about it, or she could conceal it and try for an egalitarian open relationship for which she's completely unsuited. Coercing her husband into a fake "open" relationship is the worst of all possible worlds. Or, she could just stop fucking other men and get some more and better therapy, because "monogamy is hard" is not actually the issue she's having. The issue she's having is that she's a narcissist on a power trip.

What's the best outcome for everybody?

She gets some therapy focused on how she can stop being so shitty, rather than on how to get what she wants while avoiding the consequences, and then stops being so shitty. All of her problems after that will disappear.
Posted by Eudaemonic on February 12, 2014 at 9:12 AM · Report this
seandr 64
@ABW: It must be said, that's an impressive bit of forensic psychology you've laid down here.
Posted by seandr on February 12, 2014 at 9:15 AM · Report this
@61--It's not?
Posted by LateBloomer on February 12, 2014 at 9:21 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 66
@65: No, soap operas have more sympathetic characters. Even the villains have something going for them.

...I say this from a position of great authority, as someone who once watched nearly fifteen minutes of a soap opera.
Posted by Eudaemonic on February 12, 2014 at 9:26 AM · Report this
@63 - I'd have to disagree, I think all people make mistakes in life. Some make bigger mistakes than others, but everybody makes mistakes and most of our biggest mistakes in life involve something of a sexual nature. I think that WLAA knows she's selfish, and I think she was conscious of how silly and selfish her feelings came across in her letter, that's why she was writing it. She was being honest about her selfishness and her feelings, at least in her letter. She knows she shouldn't feel that way, but she does. I give her credit for recognizing that.
Posted by Ibentrudaropes on February 12, 2014 at 9:33 AM · Report this
Pope Urbane 68
I always wondered how really attractive people that everyone wants to fuck all the time stay monogamous. I suspect they just don't.

Can any hotties out there chime in? I mean, if I was such a smoking piece of ass that sex was pretty much offered up regularly I think I would eventually, at least in weak moments, succumb to temptation. Being an extremely flawed human being and all.

Good thing all I have is my wonderful personality.
Posted by Pope Urbane on February 12, 2014 at 9:33 AM · Report this
Helix 69
What a stupid, hypocritical nutbag.
Posted by Helix on February 12, 2014 at 9:39 AM · Report this
A_Charmed_1 70
On a serious note, I really do not think that WLAA is looking for advice. WLAA is completely narcissistic and enjoys the attention she gets by letting everyone know just how clever she is (she has pulled off this affair for 3+ plus years!). She is like one of those serial killers that taunts the police by sending anonymous notes like "You can't catch me"; then ends the letter with "I feel . . . utterly alone" attempting to manipulate the readers into feeling sympathy for her and empathize with her. If this were a just world, the husband would dump the CPOS, take the children to be raised in a healthy emotional environment (WLAA cannot be any kind of effective and caring parent as she spends so much time agonizing over her affair) and finally when WLAA is alone she can realize her "Fatal Attraction" fantasy; which in the movie ended in death. A little harsh perhaps but that is my two cent, dime store, (one semester class) psychological overview and opinion.
Posted by A_Charmed_1 on February 12, 2014 at 9:46 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 71
@ 68: I mean, if I was such a smoking piece of ass that sex was pretty much offered up regularly I think I would eventually, at least in weak moments, succumb to temptation.

My time as a hottie was relatively brief and a long time ago, but that's not really what happens--if sex is offered up regularly, what happens is that you get very choosy, not that you start fucking everything that moves. It's like cars--if you can't afford more than one car, you might think that people with lots of money would want to buy every car they see, but they mostly don't.

@ 67: I'd have to disagree, I think all people make mistakes in life. Some make bigger mistakes than others, but everybody makes mistakes and most of our biggest mistakes in life involve something of a sexual nature.

The problem with your framing is that the LW didn't make a mistake, she made a series of incredibly selfish decisions, and then decided to lie about it. For years.

"I've accidentally been doing this thing for years, and lying about it for years" is not a mistake.

She knows she shouldn't feel that way, but she does. I give her credit for recognizing that.

I know, and she knew it too, which is presumably why she couched her bad behavior in terms of "monogamy is hard" rather than "I'm a disgusting vortex of crazy needs and bad behavior." But saying "My behavior is shitty, but I'm doing nothing to change it and nothing to keep it from hurting other people" doesn't actually win her a pass. Recognizing it only earns her credit if that recognition makes her do anything different, and it obviously isn't.
Posted by Eudaemonic on February 12, 2014 at 9:48 AM · Report this
seandr 72
@68: I've always suspected that a man's probability of success at monogamy is inversely proportional to the number of options he is presented with.
Posted by seandr on February 12, 2014 at 9:56 AM · Report this
@64. I could be totally wrong, but having handled hundreds of divorces and seeing people like this over and over, you learn to spot the difference between people who just make mistakes, people who want open relationships and aren't cut out for monogamy, and narcissistic CPOSs.

I could be totally wrong. But isn't part of the fun of the comments sections speculating?

Everyone here pretty much always reads into the letters. I'm just doing this from a different perspective - but it's not one based on my own biases. It's based on my professional experience.

I could frankly not care less if this women reads anything I write. This is about throwing ideas out for the commenters.

You do notice I'm not addressing her, don't you?

If she were asking me for advice, I wouldn't be so harsh, but I would not let her get away with shifting blame onto the fact she's not cut out for monogamy.

Posted by ABW on February 12, 2014 at 9:57 AM · Report this

For the record, I would be happiest in a society where bisexuality and monogamish relationships were the norm. I find that ideal.

It's not about that, though, it's about how she's framing her problem.

This is, after all, the narrative as she presents it, which is almost always more favorable to her than actual reality.
Posted by ABW on February 12, 2014 at 9:58 AM · Report this
@72 - That's true for women as well. I've studied a lot about pre-Western Native American civilizations. Quite a few of them viewed women's sexuality as natural and valued. Women slept around as much, if not more, than men.

It's all cultural.
Posted by ABW on February 12, 2014 at 10:00 AM · Report this
@68--From one wonderful personality to another, I take great comfort in the fact that I can pass judgment on the goings-on of the beautiful and non-monogamous. It is my moral superiority alone that prevents me from succumbing to similar temptation, and I lose no time in shaming those who are not as enlightened as I am. Those who accuse me of envy are just jealous of my advanced spiritual state.

Now excuse me, I have to go arrange my hair in a practical and severe style, lace up my bonnet, and practice my disdainful sniffs.
Posted by LateBloomer on February 12, 2014 at 10:08 AM · Report this
@68: Actually when science asked the question "So are people who cheat just insanely hot?" the answer was no. They're totally average. If people want to cheat, and are at least sorta adequate in the general attractiveness categories (at least to someone), they manage it. That chinless guy slinging burgers at the drive-thru? He's managing to cheat on one girlfriend with two other girls and the occasional third.

Being attractive and interesting enough to attract one partner is generally a sign that you could attract other partners. (See Dan's advice about trying to remain reasonably fit and attractive when pairing off, in part so your partner will view you as someone other people would want, who is desirable and has options.)

Also what Eudaemonic said: having a lot of options means you can be choosy.
Posted by IPJ on February 12, 2014 at 10:08 AM · Report this
@68 - I'll probably get in trouble for letting you in on the secret that us "smoking hot pieces of ass" all know, but I'll chime in anyway since you seem like a nice person. On our 18th brithdays, we smoking hot pieces of ass are implanted with a computer chip that sends out an electric impulse to all the other smoking hot pieces of ass when we approach each other. Without this implanted chip we smoking hot pieces of ass might accidently have sex with a run of the mill "hot piece of ass" by mistake.

So here is how it works. When we approach each other on the street our implanted chips communicate with each other and and set up random encounters. The smoking hot piece of ass club has set up sex rooms all over the place in major metropolitan areas. When our chips communicate with each other we are automatically directed to one of these sex rooms. The chip sends a signal to the door and when we approach we just walk in and jump into the smoking hot pieces of ass sex orgy that is going on.

Of course, @68, you'd have no way of knowing this because you're not a smoking hot piece of ass. The reason it's a secret is because we don't want the "less than smoking hot pieces of ass" to get all bummed out over how great we have it. So, you see, we're keeping the secret for the benefit of your feelings, not ours.

You're welcome.
Posted by Ibentrudaropes on February 12, 2014 at 10:14 AM · Report this
She says virtually nothing about her kids. As a mom, I find that telling. And not in a good way.
Plus she's so upset about this dude having sex with his primary girlfriend before he has sex with her? Gee, I wonder if SHE ever had sex with him then went home to her unwitting hubby for a little cuddle time?
Yuck. Just all-around yuck on this lady.
Posted by alexandria on February 12, 2014 at 10:20 AM · Report this
This woman isn't cut out for polyamory OR monogamy.
She doesn't call herself on her own irrational jealousy.
She gets upset about the details of her lover's relationship with the other (primary) girlfriend when she her primary relationship is (or should be) with her husband.
A more ethical (but still dishonest) CPOS would be clear about which relationships need to be first & which need to take second place.

What she REALLY wants is to have her choice of multiple partners who are all giving her primacy. At some basic instinctive level that's what we all really want I suppose. Nevertheless, failing to recognize that as impossible between people who are treating each other as respected equals and deal with those feelings accordingly rather than blindly following them is evil.

WLAA - get thee to a nunnery.
Posted by Robby on February 12, 2014 at 10:21 AM · Report this
ScrawnyKayaker 81
"Dancer's body" appears in the post a couple of times, and suddenly an ad for ChopShopDance "Bodies of Work" is in the sidebar. Thanks, Google Ads!
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker on February 12, 2014 at 10:36 AM · Report this
biju 82
>It's like cars--if you can't afford more than one car, you might think that people with lots of money would want to buy every car they see, but they mostly don't.

That's likely not a very good analogy.

Posted by biju on February 12, 2014 at 11:09 AM · Report this
T 83
Dan's advice hinges on the presumption that this woman has the maturity and emotional intelligence to have such a conversation with her husband, let alone make an open marriage work. Her letter is proof that she possesses neither. And she's kind of a fucking idiot for not realizing that she, not the girlfriend, is the "other woman." She's gone through life being "hot and all that" and has never put anyone else's needs ahead of her own. Those poor kids are fucked, and that husband of hers is probably going to be crushed when this all blows up in her face. Here's hoping he gets full custody and is able to get away from her special brand of crazy before too long.
Posted by T on February 12, 2014 at 11:10 AM · Report this
this is totally going to blow up in both their faces. something is going to happen equal to that sinkhole with all the corvettes and all the orgasms are going to stop for everybody. and to be honest, the sooner it does, the better. the poor kids.
Posted by the new danger on February 12, 2014 at 11:43 AM · Report this
ladycrim 85
This gal's going to be SO embarrassed when she realizes her rambling diary entry somehow got e-mailed to an advice column.
Posted by ladycrim on February 12, 2014 at 11:55 AM · Report this
Dirtclustit 86
Gee, I wonder what real life situation was used as the framework to write this letter Danno?

I know it isn't the standard business practice to just run with the real life details, and that changing seemingly insignificant details is standard practice which I guess is done to protect anonymity, but that is probably the dumbest logic I have ever heard if the purpose of the letter and every idiot's reply to it, is to give the real life person some insight that could possibly help their real life situation.

Oh well, that is par for the course for idiots, and it is what it is, although it is a damn shame since there are so many cases of idiocy that could be so easily remedied if only the idiots would simply choose to walk through life awake as opposed to holding your arms like you're balancing a yard stick otherwise known as the classic, dipshit, sleep walkers walking position

How the fuck can anybody be so foolish as to think they understand what love is, yet be in this situation and see it as a major dilemma?

How the fuck can anybody be in the business of counseling people on sound strategery on living happily, continue to run a profitable counseling business and not explain to their client a much more accurate and real definition of Love.

The letter writer is either the world's biggest asshole, or doesn't even begin to comprehend what Love looks like in real life as opposed to theorized, ivy league debate team, pissing contest win prioritizing, stupid punk assed white male and the women who buy into that "good life" lie sold to them by the better looking, more musically inclined, mirror image of the ultra conservative Jesus freak cousin.

If you recognize how destructive one of the idiot relative's philosophy of life, love and living is not only to themselves, but also destructive to society as a whole, why in Jesus Motherfucking Christ's Good name would a person decide to buy into the exact same philosophy from the equal and opposite idiot's philosophy?

It's like the people who are so sick of living in a society with belief's based are so many lies and false notions yet instead of deciding to create a community with beliefs based on truth and real truisms decides to trade in the flawed beliefs and bigotry for brand new lies and fresh, shiny new prejudices

Until the day arrives that a person truly desires to understand how wonderful, amazingly satisfying and content of a life that living can perpetually be when one understands what the concept of Love actually means, said person, people, community or mankind in general will continue to sadly, pathetically and miserably continue on their journey toward death

and doing it poetically or in ways that make for an interesting movie doesn't make it any less pathetic, miserable, or sad

I couldn't give shit about idiots who choose to fuck themselves, my stomach turns because every single one of these idiots and the idiots that believe them fail to realize where they are, where they live, and most importantly WHO they are

the name Earth, is just facade, it isn't any different then calling the whole fucking planet Egypt

anything and everything including a person's wildest dreams and more are achievable -- even if said wilds included kinkier sex with an exponentially greater number of people -- yet the fear of it translates to world that full of idiot angels, stupid fucking over privileged whiny and ugly punk ass white men, psychologists doctors and automechanics who suck at what they do for a living and should be paid anything as their profession except for counseling, healing sick people or fixing cars

Thank God there are countless other houses other than the House of Human Beings for your dumb asses to live in, otherwise we'd probably torch the earth, which is called Heaven, just like we had to do the moon.

I don't care what anybody says, I hate to be a told you so, but I told you this was a dumb fucking endeavor, I can count on one hand how many more people decided to wake up and live in House this time around as opposed to last time, what a profitable seven thousand years it's been

fuck you slog admins, don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out, as that may block my foot from the swift kick I've been waiting to give you with my Matterhorn steel toed boots

you ignorant, piss poor advice givers, bigoted liberals, and poly nazi dipshits,

good riddence


God Bless

your *pal


*sarcasm, go fuck your selves

and fuck you fat oil elephant (the dean of the editorial cartooning profession)
Posted by Dirtclustit on February 12, 2014 at 12:13 PM · Report this
@86: Apparently, one bag of popcorn won't be enough for this LOTD. Please. DO go on...
Posted by hurrdahurr on February 12, 2014 at 12:19 PM · Report this
@86: Thank you for the lugubrious rant, Dusty. Now if I just knew what a "fat oil elephant" is?
Posted by Ibentrudaropes on February 12, 2014 at 12:25 PM · Report this
seandr 89
@ABW: I wasn't being sarcastic.
Posted by seandr on February 12, 2014 at 12:32 PM · Report this
This is rare..... I went from "pretty sure this girl is a victim of some serious mind games" to 'yep, she's a piece o' trash."

I think I leveled up my scumbag detector. Thanks sloggers!
Posted by MameSnidely on February 12, 2014 at 12:45 PM · Report this
Eudaemonic 91
@ 90: It could be both. But the fact that she spends most of her letter expressing her fury at people who are--by her own description--treating her either a lot better than she's treating them, or pretty much the same as she's treating them, is a strong hint.
Posted by Eudaemonic on February 12, 2014 at 1:40 PM · Report this
Attention Nurse, isn't it time for Dusty's electroshock therapy?
Posted by kwodell on February 12, 2014 at 2:24 PM · Report this
@62: What if the husband IS the dancer?

Really, I see the LW as the idiot. We don't know enough about the dancer or the guy. If the guy is making no pretenses about fucking multiple, I don't see how that can be held against him (remember, we are reading through the LW's filter). And the dancer may be totally OK with the guy fucking the LW and the countless others he is no doubt screwing. In fact, it would surprise me if the dancer and the guy are laughing at the LW (which might be a shitty thing to do but I don't feel much sympathy for the LW).

I love how the early comments nail the fact that she thinks of herself as so much better than the dancer. Way to think that, you CPOS. And leave your husband and kids (doing them a favor) but keep in mind that the guy will continue to fuck other people even if the brilliant you take care of him like the dullard dancer. You are not all that to him. Trust me (and all these other commenters).
Posted by From the South (as in CA) on February 12, 2014 at 2:34 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 94

I couldn't really make out the signature, so I just guessed, it almost looks like it is signed "OuiP+ANT"

he's just another fuckwit from Uclick Universal
Posted by Dirtclustit on February 12, 2014 at 3:24 PM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 95
For any who might be giving the male piece on the side a pass, remember he's fed the LW a few lines: -the ONLY reason he's sleeping with the hot-bodied dancer is because he can't have the LW; -the hot-bodied dancer, though, is dull, so LW can still maintain a superior air; -and the best line, "I've never told her I love her ... you're the only one for me, babe".

What would the LW really like? Well, the first thing is to keep ALL of her possessions in separate cubbyholes so she can take out her husband from one for him to satisfy her MagicPussy. The second is so that her piece on the side is ALWAYS available to her - and only HERRRRRRR - because only she has that MagicPussy. And she's so scintillating, despite not having a hot body.

Who knows, she might even take her kids out of their tiny cubbies ... just so she can dust them off.

I'm definitely against Dan's advice here. If the LW had any sense, she'd figure out there are ways to make monogamy work. How about renting a room in a hotel, arrive alone, change into something slightly slutty and go down to pick up a stranger at the bar - the stranger who will actually be her husband. Then the pretend stranger follows her up to her room and they fuck in a way that would belie that they've done it before. In fact, the hotel sex could be the place where they try new things.

It may not be the thrilling non-monogamy she's missing, but OTOH she'll never have to feel jealous about the other woman!
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on February 12, 2014 at 4:29 PM · Report this
aureolaborealis 96
@86: I was trying to say, and I caught her, trying to say, and she screamed and I was trying to say and trying arid the bright shapes began to stop and I tried to get out. I tried to get it off of my face, but the bright shapes were going again.
Posted by aureolaborealis on February 12, 2014 at 4:54 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 97
@95: He gets a pass because the wife is both dumb and crass enough to believe it.

She's pretty insulated from anything involving sense, so it's hard to sympathize with liars getting lied to and hungering after the defeat of her romantic rival.

I expect her to get pulled over by the cops, in diapers, driving over to her lover's girlfriend's place to "sort things out".
Posted by undead ayn rand on February 12, 2014 at 9:40 PM · Report this
LW seriously needs a hobby.
Posted by Really Now... on February 12, 2014 at 10:35 PM · Report this
@68 I got more attention when I was a size 10 with horrible near disfiguring rosacea in combat boots compared to now as a size 2 with my rosacea under control and a closet full of pumps and heels.
Posted by Really Now... on February 12, 2014 at 10:39 PM · Report this
shitty advice.

Dan's slacking
Posted by joemomma on February 13, 2014 at 12:27 AM · Report this
debug 101
Dan's advice sucks so much ass on this one.

The answer is to deceive and manipulate the husband even more? You know, because of the children.

Divorce can be hard on kids but it isn't the end of the world (I know, my parents were divorced when I was young). Better she tell him the whole thing in a planned way vs him finding out accidentally and having a meltdown in front of the kids, possibly hurting himself or the CPOS in the process.

But no, let him continue to be exposed to STDs while satisfying the CPOS with oral. Shit she probably gets off knowing he's tasting the boyfriend's swimmers.

I get that Dan's pushing the monogamish stuff pretty hard these days but there's nothing wrong with that, if it's entered into honestly.

I get a slip-up can happen in any monogamous LTR, but there's a difference between a moment of weakness and a committed three-year affair.

If the genders were switched I don't think "trick your wife into accepting your affair while you continue to cheat" would have been the advice.
Posted by debug on February 13, 2014 at 9:29 AM · Report this
I really hate this CPOS. Her worst offense, among many, is that she mentions "sloppy seconds" twice without irony. Hey, you stupid twat:

A) at least you know about it and hopefully he washed his dick.
B) Your twat-worshiping husband is the one who's unwittingly getting sloppy seconds. Think he'd be thrilled about going down on you if he knew?

You suck.
Posted by portland scribe on February 13, 2014 at 11:24 AM · Report this
@95: I am willing to consider a pass for the guy because I think the LW is capable of filtering what she hears from what he says. He may say "I love you" and she may think, "He loves only me". He may say, "The dancer and I just stay home and fuck" and she may think, "The dancer is a home-bound bore while I am worldly", etc.

If he is really manipulating - which could be the case - he's an asshole. But I think that he could be totally honest with her: I love you. I love fucking the dancer. I am not leaving either.

Why wouldn't the dancer know if the LW knows? I am assuming he has many on the side and the only one looking for the river in Egypt is the LW.
Posted by From the South (as in CA) on February 13, 2014 at 1:05 PM · Report this
OK, CPOS-status aside, I have two questions for this woman:

1. If her married life with her husband is wonderful (especially with the receipt of "thunderous orgasms" in his obviously capable hands ), why did she look outside the marriage to begin with? Both the letter writer and Dan say that she's not cut out of monogamy - and with this I agree. However, she definitely doesn't like the idea of her partner fooling around on her either. Even if she gives him the OK to fool around as long as he doesn't tell her when or with whom, I think the knowledge that he's doing it at all will be too much.

2. Why does the LW assume that her CPOS-in-crime is only being honest with her? Admittedly, I am a naturally pessimistic person but I think the red flags are here. This guy is staying with another woman and fucking her while having all-day sex sessions with the LW after the dancer goes to work. The only thing missing is "I'm going to leave her; she knows the relationship is over." The LW is in serious denial and is not only putting her marriage in danger by staying with this guy, she's openly giving approval to his behavior by her refusal to leave. So this guy is getting twice the p***** (at least) with none of the commitment. Doesn't matter if the dancer knows about any of this or not; the fact that the LW knows and does nothing is enough to make this guy confident enough to keep doing it.

Bottom line: I find it interesting that the LW refers to the dancer as a boring person that this asshole loves to fuck; therefore, she's an idiot. Funny - I'm fairly sure that's probably how the asshole describes the LW to other people as well. CPOS or not, this chick is no genius herself.
Posted by kellybg1978 on February 13, 2014 at 4:28 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 105
fuck it, I won't apologize, because this needs to be said as the world is on the verge of everything coming to fruition, yet dimwitted stupid fucking people still refuse to open their eyes, and if you refuse to wake up, you jeopardize all the progress that the pioneering heroes and heroines suffered through hell to bring this about

most of the work done by homosexuals who refused to back down, knowing they were in the right, as well as women and non-caucasians, all who did their part so that WE could know the truth, and with that WE can understand.

so let's get one thing straight with this pathetic letter, the only thing wrong with the wife's behavior, was not being honest to her husband. I have no sympathy for her bullshit excuses to cheat and her having a hard time with jealousy of sharing her partners.

She complains how hard it is to deal with jealousy?

yeah right, like it is a walk in the park to look her husband in the eye everyday, and pretend she knows what Love is. OK so I do feel bad for those who choose such a pathetic view of Life.

How do people not recognize the level of detachment necessary to lie to yourself?

To pretend that what she is doing equals a loving relationship. She is killing herself, and she doesn't even realize it. The lies and justifications she uses, that's NOT living, that is so detached she has become the living who are already dead

getting over her jealousy would be a piece of cake if she were among the walking LIVING instead of the walking Dead. And when she joins the Living and lives honestly, if she really couldn't handle the jealousy, who the hell cares, non-monogamy isn't for everybody. At least she would have honestly figured it out.

she is so detached from the Truth, that there is no way she can know what style of intimate relationships she is or isn't cut out for, her mind is framed with so many god damned lies there is no way she can know who she Is

what the fuck is wrong with American understanding of psychology? How in the hell does living a lie enable her know the truth? it doesn't and it won't.

Yes WLAA you should ditch the boyfriend, because anyone who would fool around with you knowing you are married without first getting your husband's blessing is just another blind deaf and dumb motherfucker, a member of the dead men club. Oblivious to the Truth of what Is real in this life

The saddest part to this miserable fucking story, is they could have had it all; if all parties involved had the courage to live honestly

but back to the heroes of the revolution, the homosexuals who had the courage to stand their ground, many of whom endured their life living in hell, a hell inflicted upon them by the white man, and the afflicted homosexuals were always in the right. Are you just going to let everything they sacrificed for be pissed away?

The first thing you need to do, is stop the whole debate on whether or not a person's sexual orientation is something they can choose.

Who gives a flying fuck, IT IS YOUR GOD GIVEN RIGHT TO CHOOSE YOUR OWN FAMILY, you are buying into the framework of bigotry by letting them force you to believe it's not OK simply to decide.

And I am NOT saying it is a choice, I am saying that you've come too far to not realize the whole truth. They have no right to tell you who you can love. So long as your lovers are fully knowledgeable consenting adults, who you choose to share your life with is up to you and those who accept your offer to be in your life.

That is a sacred right

The other is religion, they do not have the right to tell any person how they are allowed to worship God, or that you must believe in God, these are the scared rights that belong to you. This are choices that are completely up to the individual

Your religion, who you choose as your family, and who you have intimate relationships with are the only areas in your life where you are free to be as discriminating as you like. It is OK to simply prefer one gender over the other, or neither, or both. You don't need a good enough reason, every human being should have the liberty and freedom to exercise these most basic, fundamental rights

which are bound by your wildest dreams, the restrictions only need be knowledgeable adults who freely choose to share their life with you

Dan please don't be like the so-called enlightened authors who I refer to as poly nazi.

and Kelly, don't buy into the lies, a person does NOT have to have a partner who somehow falls short of fully satisfying her sexually, that is the philosophy of the poly nazi. People do NOT need a rhyme or reason, you don't need to have unfulfilled needs to have more than one partner, you just need to have partners who are understanding enough to be OK with polyamory or non-monogamy.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry when shit gets published by an author who claims "this is why I need more than one partner"

your partner could meet every conceivable need of ten people, and it is still OK to simply prefer to have another lover, you just need a partner who will accept that

It is OK to decide on your own, stand your ground when you are in the right, learn how to tell people to fuck off when they attempt to trample your God Given Rights.

tell them to go fuck themselves when they believe they are not in the wrong for even attempting to influence these private, personal, sacred decisions

The world is on the verge of Understanding the Truth, and people are going to fuck it all up if they believe they need to justify or have a good enough reason to exercise their GOD GIVEN RIGHTS.

Tell them to go fuck themselves, the trail has already been blazed, the hard work and sacrificed lives have already been heroicly given up, never forget; the gift is delivered because of their suffering, WE are now allowed to fully accept and receive it.

Honor them by not falling into the trap that you need to have a good enough reason, don't put your faith in bigotry, and for Christ's sake don't fuck it up by confusing love with hatred.

wake up and open your eyes
Posted by Dirtclustit on February 13, 2014 at 9:24 PM · Report this
I have to agree with 63. The issue isn't that monogamy is tough the issue is that the LW wants to be the center of the universe and is freaking out because she's realizing she isn't.

And why is 'saving' the marriage so important? The LW doesn't seem to care about her kids and her husband is a great guy but that didn't stop her from fucking around on him.

Hell I think everyone would be better off if he divorced her, took the kids and left her to obsesses over her lover.
Posted by msanonymous on February 13, 2014 at 10:06 PM · Report this
sissoucat 107
ABW, I agree with your analysis. The LW is simply an asshole, and an immature one at that.

I concur with IPJ as far as cheaters not being necessarily attractive. My ex-husband never was a beauty prize, but he had a little something in his youth, when he was slim. But it's bloated toad-faced 40er him who cheated.
Posted by sissoucat on February 14, 2014 at 5:32 AM · Report this
It occurs to me that the letter writer likes the intensity of being treated like shit by this guy. That she is addicted to the drama of the whole thing. That at the same time as she portrays herself as superior, she is getting turned on by being a trashy slut who can't help herself at the sight of his dick. She might try asking the husband if he would indulge in some humiliation play, or some dom/sub play that makes her grovel, cause that's all the current bf is doing really. Making sure she knows he's the boss. And she needs to go no-contact with the outside dick. I also suspect once he moves to town it will fizzle out. Good on him though, the manipulative bastard. Give a certain kind of person attention, and they will give you their soul. Mwahahahahaha!
Posted by sweetviolet on February 14, 2014 at 7:19 AM · Report this
@105 wtf?
Posted by Really Now... on February 14, 2014 at 10:10 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 110
@109: Why read his posts? He's a nutball.
Posted by undead ayn rand on February 14, 2014 at 8:29 PM · Report this
LW, your brain is currently similar to someone who is addicted to heroin or meth. You can not think rationally. You NEED TO DETOX from this situation, starting NOW. Cut of ALL CONTACT- NO EXCEPTIONS. I would recommend cutting off contact for at least a year. As you get distance and perspective, you will realize that your boyfriend is indeed a grody asshole, and you are indeed a grody asshole, and you will feel like shit about it- that is if you have any amount of character. And this is good, because you already feel like shit- you just won't face it. This is your chance to grow the fuck up and stop being such a loser. The time is now.

Also, leave your fucking husband. If you can't do it, own your fucking decision. You can try to open the relationship. But you'll never make it anywhere if you don't take a good, focused, honest look at yourself.
Posted by truthhurts10000000 on February 14, 2014 at 9:15 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 112
at 109

it was a long complicated way to remind Dan, there is a difference between doing the right thing because it is right, and doing the right thing for selfish reasons.

anonymous fuckwit 111, you sound just like the SPOS counselor who sucks at what they do for a living, what kind of idiot who supposedly has any sort of understanding of the human mind and the emotions that enable are species to have the potential for intelligence, would ever advise a person to "not tell him!"

I guess there is the very slim chance that the counselor does not understand the meaning of the term intimacy.

You sure are a piece of work, if you are employed in the field of human psychology, you are one of the professionals that the world would be better off paying you to enter a new profession. "Paying" you as in letting you keep your psychologist wages but flipping burgers instead.

Dear Annabel Rand,

Until you have something of significance to say, please go back to practicing third rate comedy like all the other "journalists" who comment on slog, although it is fairly douchey to do so when the post if on a serious topic.

otherwise stick to your ivy league debate team strategery pamphlet and correct my grammar, or personally insult me, it will do more to convince gullible people that you are intelligent.

but don't worry friend, my comments get deleted anyway and it will only be a matter of time until the butt hurt admins ban me as it is evident the whiners cannot take equal amounts of that which they dish out

...ain't that right Mr. Newall?
Posted by Dirtclustit on February 15, 2014 at 2:42 AM · Report this
sissoucat 113
@110 I feel it's a "he" too, but I can't pinpoint why.
Posted by sissoucat on February 15, 2014 at 12:12 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 114
@112: If you're angry for being repeatedly banned, there's always a Free Republic, Redstate, or Breitbart who'd be happy to hear all about your obviously advanced belief system. We'll cry tears for you.

@113: I imagine he's the latest incarnation of sugartit, I dont usually encounter women these days who are huge Mel Gibson fans post sexism/antisemitism/opus dei-onansism.
Posted by undead ayn rand on February 15, 2014 at 1:31 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 115
@111: Addicted to self-generated dramz isn't quite analogous to physical addictions. You can go cold-turkey for that, but I don't see her stepping outside her situation anytime soon.
Posted by undead ayn rand on February 15, 2014 at 1:37 PM · Report this
Dirtclustit 116
that's worth about half a star, to get the full star for effort you, sock puppet cat and 111 would have to misuse the term "evolve" you enlightened geniuses you
Posted by Dirtclustit on February 16, 2014 at 6:00 AM · Report this
Reminds me of the woman who killed the NFL player Steve McNair. She knew he was married, had an affair with him, thought nothing of his wife, but then got insanely jealous when she discovered he might have ANOTHER girlfriend on the side. That was intolerable to her, so she shot him. This LW sounds cut-your-dick-off crazy.
Posted by wellokaythen on February 28, 2014 at 1:38 PM · Report this

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