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Friday, January 31, 2014

SL Letter of the Day: Dimpure

Posted by on Fri, Jan 31, 2014 at 4:38 PM

I am an 18-year-old pansexual girl. Currently in a relationship with a guy. He is a bit younger, though mature for his age. We get along great, our friends like us together, yada yada yada. He wants to do the waiting until marriage thing for sex. I'm cool with that, less pressure in the relationship. He wants to do this for religious reasons, which I mostly agree with. We met in youth group after all.

Here is the real kink. I lost the big V about a year ago. He knows about that, isn't happy about it (cause he hasn't), but he's willing to date me anyways. What hasn't really come up is the subject of porn and masturbation. Back to the religious reasons: He doesn't do either (or won't fess up to them) and doesn't approve. I however, do both. Especially since my breakup (and thus no more sex) last year, I've come to rely on masturbating to take care of my sexual needs. The porn I am willing to forgo, but I don't want to give up pleasuring myself. This guy knows nothing. He has however talked about how we ought to "keep ourselves pure." (My thoughts on purity: I've already screwed that up!)

Is there any good way to communicate that I'm not going to give up masturbating to him without him going crazy? It took long enough just to show him I wasn't the spawn of Satan because I like girls as much as I like guys. Should I just go along with his standards and try giving up masturbation? Or should I not tell him anything about what I do in the privacy of my own bedroom?

Mismatched On Sex

My response after the jump...

•••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••••

The quickest and most effective way to communicate to this boy that you aren't gonna give up masturbation for him is to break the fuck up with him, MOS. Your boyfriend is essentially forcing you to pick between him or masturbation and the choice is obvious: masturbation is a pleasurable friend that doesn't judge or shame you and your boyfriend is an unpleasant, sex-negative, controlling, judgmental scold.

DTMFA.

Then after you've enjoyed a few dozen celebratory orgasms, MOS, ask yourself why you would waste even two minutes of your precious pansexual time on a guy like him, i.e. someone that you're clearly not sexually compatible with. You're pansexual, somewhat sexually experienced, you masturbate and you enjoy porn. I could understand your dating a guy who was a virgin and wanted to remain sexually inactive for now—for religious reasons or otherwise—but dating someone you had to talk out of seeing you as the spawn of Satan? Or dating someone you have to lie to about something as common and healthy as masturbation? Not worth it, MOS, not in the short run, not in the long run. You want to be with someone who likes you and wants to be with you, not someone your friends like you with, and this boy clearly doesn't like you. Why on earth do you like him?

Finally: I hope that parenthetical at the end of your second paragraph was meant sarcastically. But just in case: being sexually active does not make you "impure." I think you know that, MOS, but I want you to get out of this relationship while you still believe it.

 

Comments (59) RSS

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1
Jesus, this girl is more sexually experienced (and sophisticated) at 18 than I was at 30.
Posted by Pope Buck I on January 31, 2014 at 4:45 PM · Report this
Max Solomon 2
dump him and have fun. just don't try it in Perugia.
Posted by Max Solomon on January 31, 2014 at 4:57 PM · Report this
3
Sometimes it's okay to wait. Like if it's during dinner or when your flight is on final approach into SeaTac.
Posted by Tyler Pierce on January 31, 2014 at 5:08 PM · Report this
4
What is the difference between bisexual and pansexual? Or is it just a way to make it sound like being bisexual is a superpower? Pansexual to the rescue!
Posted by Alex P on January 31, 2014 at 5:09 PM · Report this
5
he's "willing to date you anyways"? How fucking generous of his precious pure religious self.

please dump his sorry ass. you are way, way, way too young to waste any more time on this douchenozzle. he is a shaming, controlling shit, and he is never going to get better. even if he does, why is it your responsibility to break him of his religious douchenozzlery?

would you let some random religious dude on the street tell you that you're not allowed to pierce your ears, because it would make you impure and it offends his religion? I should hope not. so if you wouldn't give a random religious dude the right to control what you do with your body, why would you let this particular religious dude have the right to control what you do with your body?

Run, do not walk, out of this relationship. Find a nice boy who appreciates a good wank, and/or a nice girl who might even share your taste in porn. Why on earth would you want to voluntarily give up pleasure on such a base level for somebody else's fanaticism?
Posted by Action Kate on January 31, 2014 at 5:22 PM · Report this
Fnarf 6
"Virginity" is a social construct. And DTMFA, duh.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on January 31, 2014 at 5:23 PM · Report this
7
@4: I think it indicates an interest in people of ambiguous gender (trans or otherwise) as well as men and women (trans or otherwise.)
Posted by nanoboy on January 31, 2014 at 5:25 PM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 8
MOS, your 'mature for his age' bf, in adult terms is still very immature. No fault of his, of course. But PLEASE take note! His words and attitude are the mark of an emotionally immature male. You will meet guys just like him, but they will be in their 20's, 30's, and sad to say, even older than that. Some are in DC, or state capitols across the country, and they are making laws to punish healthy women like yourself.

Pay very close attention to your bf, especially after you break up with him. Note his words, his actions, his attitudes. You will recognize these later in life.
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on January 31, 2014 at 5:31 PM · Report this
9
Easy call, but given her youth and the fact that she didn't include 'dump his ass' among her available options, I'm more concerned than usual that she will reject this advice out of hand.

Please, letter writer, put some thought--and even prayer--into what Dan wrote before you decide whether or not he is correct.

Also be wary of falling into the old trap of thinking "I can CHANGE him! Because love and Jesus and me so awesome!"

Posted by Functional Atheist on January 31, 2014 at 5:37 PM · Report this
10
At age 18, 25, 35, 50, 90, advice is the same: dump anyone who shames you about your sexuality. Those ideas are so corrosive coming from a romantic partner. It will wear you down and fuck with your psyche over time. Run.
Posted by wxPDX on January 31, 2014 at 5:51 PM · Report this
Ophian 11
Of the many foolish things I did in my teen years, insisting that someone with whom I was in a relationship not have sex with me was never one.
Posted by Ophian on January 31, 2014 at 5:51 PM · Report this
12
Purity is bullshit in the first place. It's a social construct designed to control you. Fuck it, and dump the guy.
Posted by Hanoumatoi on January 31, 2014 at 6:17 PM · Report this
forcrimeinitaly 13
For the love of (his) God, run the other way. Life is too short to feel bad about your sexuality and someone who makes you feel that way is NOT worth your time. Run, little girl, run for the ever loving hills.
And maybe stop to buy a good vibrator along the way.
Posted by forcrimeinitaly on January 31, 2014 at 6:23 PM · Report this
Sea Otter 14
@5 I dunno, that seems a bit harsh to me. He's around 16 or 17, and he probably just hasn't overcome his religious brainwashing, or he may just not be emotionally ready for sex yet, for whatever other reasons. He may very well grow up to be a decent, non-shamey guy. Nonetheless, it's still a bad scene and she should dump him.

P.S. If he says he doesn't masturbate, he is a liar.
Posted by Sea Otter on January 31, 2014 at 6:45 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 15
"I lost the big V about a year ago. He knows about that, isn't happy about it (cause he hasn't), but he's willing to date me anyways"

Oh, what a charity he's doing to you! (DTMFA.)

@14: Doesn't matter what age he's at and whether he'll grow out of it. He's not entitled to treat her that way.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 31, 2014 at 7:00 PM · Report this
16
First things first - dump that church. That ought to solve the rest.
Posted by vennominon on January 31, 2014 at 7:09 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 17
Er, which is what you said.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 31, 2014 at 7:10 PM · Report this
18
Boyfriend reminds me (DTMFA) of my high school girlfriend (DTMFA). Ah, sweet (DTMFA) memories. I think you should (DTMFA) DTMFA!
Posted by LateBloomer on January 31, 2014 at 7:19 PM · Report this
very bad homo 19
Masturbation is healthy. This relationship is not. You're too young to get stuck with this guy.
Posted by very bad homo on January 31, 2014 at 7:27 PM · Report this
20
While I agree with the general thrust of the advice, I'm not down with the undertone that implies MOS is stupid for needing to ask. MOS, there are obviously things you really like about this guy, or you wouldn't be with him and wouldn't have made the effort you've made so far. BUT, the longer you're sexually active on this rock, the more you're going to realise that an open, healthy sexuality is incompatible with notions of "purity" and the like. This guy might come to that realisation too, but I bet you'd be happier with someone on your page too. I'm not sure your BF is quite the asshole people are making him out to be. He's just reflecting the values he's been raised with. So let him down as kindly as you can, but you gotta do it.
Posted by Phil Mud on January 31, 2014 at 7:29 PM · Report this
21
I have a question, since you two met in a youth group, I assume you're both of the same religion? So how come his own version of the religion dictates not masturbating and keeping "pure", while your own version of the religion seems to be okay with both of these? Or does your religion not frown on these things, in which case of wondering why he'd want to deny himself of pleasures like that if it's allowed?
Posted by Slogger69 on January 31, 2014 at 7:34 PM · Report this
22
I'm never quick to drop the DTMFA-hammer at all, but this girl honestly sounds like she's looking for a way out of this relationship. She's too self-aware and self-possessed not to see the situation clearly and objectively for what it is: a serious discrepancy of values and perspectives.

Srsly though, can we talk about how fucking self-possessed she is? At 18 I would've been questioning my whole worldview if I'd started dating someone who challenged it even just slightly. Can't imagine what I would've done with a religious nutjob. I probably would've been impressionable enough to convert to his religion and adopt all his beliefs. GO MOS!
Posted by dchari on January 31, 2014 at 7:45 PM · Report this
23
My advise for Mismatched On Sex:

You've got it right there in your sign off. The two of you are not a match when it comes to sex. He's never had sex before, you have, and he doesn't like that. He doesn't masturbate, you do, and he wouldn't like it if he knew. He doesn't watch porn, you do, he's not okay with it. You're into girls. He's uncomfortable with same-sex stuff and thinks (or thought) it's deeply evil. I may disagree with his opinions (religious or not) but he's got a right to them. But you don't have to continue to date someone who doesn't like you doing stuff that you find enjoyable and fulfilling.

Dan, and a lot of the Stranger regular readers think you should DTMFA. I think there's a good case for doing that. But this guy is young too, probably doesn't realize that his opinions may cost him a bunch of otherwise awesome realtionships, and may eventually change his mind. I think it would be to his benefit for you to sit him down and say, "Look, I like being with you, I like what we've got. But here's the deal: I'm into girls, that's never gonna change. I'm not a virgin. That's never gonna change. I enjoy watching porn and masturbating. That's never gonna change. I'm not into being guilt tripped for all this stuff that's just me and who I am and what I like to do. I won't stick around and deal with that. If you don't like this stuff about me and you can't get over it, then let me know and we can walk away right now."

Who knows, standing up for yourself might blow his mind and make him reconsider. Or give him an opportunity to be honest that no, he's not okay with that, and then you can part ways.

I don't like the opinions of MOS's boyfriend and I think they are controlling etc too. But I don't think demonizing him is the most helpful for a young woman in her position especially because it would be FINE for this guy to have such different opinions from her as long as he was showing her the same understanding as she's showing him. Understanding can be dangerous when taken too far but it's also a gift. I don't wanna talk this girl out of respecting someone else's right to a different opinion. She can leave this guy without changing that.
More...
Posted by kellarules on January 31, 2014 at 7:45 PM · Report this
Lose-Lose 24
HOLD ON! For the most part I agree with Dan, BUT "he is a bit younger"...??? How old is he? Is this a teachable moment? I mean, a young ignorant sexophobe can be changed! Instead of just dumping him, what about a heartfelt and insightful discussion about his, um, attitudes. I mean, he is "willing to date you", meaning he does like you and this maybe he'll listen to you, so maybe you can teach him a thing or two. Like if he really is "more mature than his age", then he should start acting like it, which means dropping the judgment and anti-sex attitudes...
Posted by Lose-Lose on January 31, 2014 at 7:47 PM · Report this
25
@21, climb off your soapbox. Obviously some people in a religious community follow stricter edicts than others. That doesn't mean they're all hypocrites.
Posted by dchari on January 31, 2014 at 7:48 PM · Report this
26
Oh, sweetie. It's great you're trying to respect his different comfort level around sex, but please stay the fuck away from any guy who makes you feel like he's "willing" to date you in spite of a sexual history he doesn't like. You sound like an awesome kid and you deserve (and can find) sweet and kind lovers who will respect you, your past, and your needs.

And: as someone you was a shit at 16, I'm sorry on your boyfriend's behalf. Getting compassionately dumped by such an awesome young woman might do wonders for your bf's character.
Posted by mai naim hear on January 31, 2014 at 8:02 PM · Report this
Reverse Polarity 27
Oh, please. I will take him at his word that he's still a virgin. But if he's telling you he never masturbates, he's a lying liar. Nearly all guys masturbate, especially at his age. Sure, there are a few that resist or are truly asexual, but they are as rare as snow in the Sahara.

So not only is he being a judgmental jackass about your perfectly natural sexuality, he's being a lying hypocrite about his own.

DTMFA. You can do better. Much better.
Posted by Reverse Polarity on January 31, 2014 at 8:24 PM · Report this
28
@8: " His words and attitude are the mark of an emotionally immature [person]."

There, fixed that for you. Plenty of females wandering the planet who look down lofty kilometers of nose at partners who aren't virgins, who masturbate (even more of these), and who like to look at porn (droves of these). End of quibble.

But yes, LW, what most everyone has been saying. This young fellow is approaching your relationship with a fundamental air of disapproval of what you have already done, and of what you are currently doing and not telling him about -- all of which is stuff he has no business judging you on.

If he wants to keep his body "pure," whatever that means, he should feel free; it's his body to do with as he wishes. However, the same consideration should be afforded to you and your ownership of your body. But he already approaches you and your activities as something bad that needs to be overlooked or somehow atoned for. This will not be a relationship of equals. You will find yourself trying to suck up to his religious morals, putting him and his disapproval in the driver's seat.

He needs to either be perfectly comfortable with who you are sexually, or he needs to be with someone else. He does not get to be in the position of squashing your sexuality for the sake of appeasing his own religious sensibilities.
Posted by avast2006 on January 31, 2014 at 8:28 PM · Report this
29
In other words, if he disapproves of masturbation as a horny 17-18 year old boyfriend, he will continue to disapprove of masturbation -- as well as all the other stuff he's been told is dirty and evil -- after you two are married. Don't set yourself up for this.

You MIGHT get him to change by telling him this is untenable and that the relationship is on the line if he can't fix his shitty attitude towards your sexual history...but I doubt it. Frankly you are more likely to fix him for his next girlfriend by showing that you mean it, that trying to stuff your sexuality into his religious mold is a dumpable offense, and actually breaking up with him.

I would advise doing it as gently as possible so that he feels that it was his beliefs that caused it, rather than you being cruel and heartless. He has to realize that his beliefs are the thing that are costing him relationships before he will be willing to relinquish them. Otherwise it wil continue to be how he can't understand all this unGodliness in the world, compared to his wonderful righteousness.
Posted by avast2006 on January 31, 2014 at 8:37 PM · Report this
30
Your bf does not own your orgasms. The end.
Posted by kersy on January 31, 2014 at 9:33 PM · Report this
31
So much to gain, so little to lose.

I've traveled across a pretty good religious and sexual spectrum.
If I had to do it all over again it would be almost as safe, more compassionate, and quite a bit sluttier. Way more in fact.

Fly, be free, and don't waste tomorrow with a douchnozzle.
Posted by SifuMark on January 31, 2014 at 9:35 PM · Report this
32
Ok let me get this straight, he is very religious in an apparently Christian fundamentalist way. Wants to save it for marriage, doesn't like porn and claims not to beat off. Oh and he thinks same sex attraction indicates that one is a spawn of Satan.

What if he's Gay? It would explain things. Porn is out, straight porn doesn't do it for him and Gay porn, well there's that spawn of Satan thing. Masturbation nope no good, his thoughts keep turning to guys, spawn of Satan thing again. Has a girlfriend who apparently would happily help him with that pesky virginity but he won't go there, why? That Fundamentalist Christian thing.

He can't do the "deed" with her because deep down he knows he doesn't feel "that way" about her. But damn she turns him on, not as in female, but that she's sexual, pan sexual. She's sexually open and accepting. Plus he gets major kudos from all their friends who think they are a great couple. He brought the almost spawn of Satan back into the fold. So he can't be Gay.

With MOS he's got a safe bubble.

Yeah MOS should dump him as a BF but perhaps it is because what he really needs is a really good fag hag (for lack of a better term).
Posted by Machiavelli was framed on January 31, 2014 at 9:58 PM · Report this
Sargon Bighorn 33
Gheeezuz Keerist where is Seattleblues when he's really needed? Heterosexual normal natural God given sex issues?
Posted by Sargon Bighorn on January 31, 2014 at 9:59 PM · Report this
34
@20, 23, 24--Right! Good point. The lass I'm recalling @18, although the national mixed signals and blueballs champion, was also funny, beautiful and easy to hang out with. And she did jettison her conservative religious views a couple years after I knew her, eventually becoming a stand-up heathen and all round nice person (a little too late for my benefit). So repressive religious types don't have to be assholes, they could just be confused. Especially in adolescence, when you're still trying to figure out which way it's best to roll.

But! I could have really used a sex-positive partner at that crucial time in my development. When I think of what could have been, I have to find the nearest riverbank so I can sit down and weep. So for your own sake, DTMFA, like I said--but don't forget the compassion.
Posted by LateBloomer on January 31, 2014 at 10:06 PM · Report this
35
"Already messed that up"? I see that thought process a lot with virginity issues. If purity is important to this girl, then she should remember that while being a virgin or not is an either-or issue, chastity and self-control and discrimination (in the sense of being appropriately choosy about one's partners) are matters of degree. Someone who's not a virgin isn't an automatic slut. Someone who's no longer 100% pure is not automatically 0% pure.

You want to be as pure as you can be? Go ahead. Find a level of sexual restraint that works for you and then rock it. You don't have to have sex with any guy who asks just because you said yes to one dude a while back.

As for the question she actually asked, "Honey, if you want to wait until marriage for sex, that's one thing—I think you're worth it and I love that you think I'm worth it—but I will not stop masturbating or looking at porn." That's not passive-aggressive; it's the truth. He needs to accept that she has more liberal views about sex than he does. If he's a good guy, then he deserves the chance to prove that he can do that, because if he can, this might work.
Posted by DRF on January 31, 2014 at 10:16 PM · Report this
36
Seriously-I'm the first to post "FAKE"?!? It was my 1st thought and I'm not much a first impressionist..."Yada Yada"?
Posted by Chllr on January 31, 2014 at 11:08 PM · Report this
37
I suspect this young man is looking to "rescue" this "fallen woman" and win her undying simpering gratitude. He's trying to save you from yourself, honey, but believe me, you don't need saving. You sound like you're doing just fine. And yes, I'm with the drop-him-like-a-hot-potato crowd. He's bad news for your self-esteem.
Posted by Jenkitty on January 31, 2014 at 11:11 PM · Report this
Puckerd Poop Chute 38
As a coincidence, I just stumbled on this awesome anti-masturbation video chuck full of homoerotic imagery

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9TQt3SyYO…
Posted by Puckerd Poop Chute on January 31, 2014 at 11:51 PM · Report this
sirkowski 39
@36 I thought fake too. That or one hell of a moron.
Posted by sirkowski http://www.missdynamite.com on February 1, 2014 at 1:30 AM · Report this
sissoucat 40
"Someone who's no longer 100% pure is not automatically 0% pure"

Purity should have nothing to do with sex. Let's bring it back to whence it originated : as a hygiene issue.

Do you wash every day ? Do you smell okay ? Do you look healthy enough ? You're pure.

Do you stink ? Do you have purulent discharges from any part of your body ? Does your hair keep falling, do you have strange unusual colors appearing on your skin ? You're impure.

If impure, please don't contaminate others through skin to skin contact, and go check with a medic what's wrong with you.

Of course, back in the bronze age, you'd checked the issue with priests, since they were the only ones with some vague medical knowledge ; and they'd say that masturbating or having sex was an impure thing, because who washed their hands or sex parts back then ? Soap was not yet invented in biblical times ! So bumping filthy private parts was best reserved for the times, few and far between, when the priests' flock needed some more individuals - epidemy is a very serious concern in a bronze age tribe.

But we're not in the bronze age anymore, baby. Wash everyday and happily masturbate.

Oh, and please dump the bronze age guy you've been dating.
Posted by sissoucat on February 1, 2014 at 1:50 AM · Report this
lolorhone 41
Some people grow out of being clueless, finger-wagging moralists. And some people become Fox News contributors. Don't stick around to find out which.
Posted by lolorhone on February 1, 2014 at 4:49 AM · Report this
42
Matt Dilahunty, one of the leading Atheist+ voiced today was a fundamentalist on his way to being a preacher {he was in seminary} when he started questioning. The guy is at most 18. While I agree that the only long term solution for her that is viable is to be with a guy who can share in her sexuality. So why can't it be him? She obviously sees something in him and I am assuming it isn't the need for self humiliation, but some affection.

SO I would tell you to go out on a date with him. Wear whatever makes you fell confident and sexy. And lay it on the line. Tell him you masturbate. Orgasms are fabulous and are part of the price of admission, and you would love to teach him about them {hand jobs, oral, not the big P in V if that isn't something that you need right now. Tell him you are going to watch porn and would love to share it with him. Tell him that sharing sensual pleasure is going to be part of your relationship with any cis- tran- boy or girl or genderfluid person you love and want a relationship with. Tell him that your interpretation of your religion is right for you and it includes sexuality. Make sure you let him know that it is totally out of bounds for him to judge you as "Spawn of Satan". My wife and I have referred to ourselves as Spawn of Satan, but as a statement of pride.

By now he has run screaming, or he has had his eyes opened. And you have had a great life lesson in speaking your mind. And if he gives it a try and sees your way of thinking as superior to his, it's a big win for the both of you.

But if you deliver your message as not an ultimatum, but as a declaration of who you are, its a big win for you.

And if he does accept your needs and is willing to take steps to help fulfill them, don't let him back track or not follow thru. That's when you DTMFA. And make sure he knows why. You said you would try and you didn't follow thru. I can't be with someone who breaks their word on so important an issue.

While you seem amazingly self aware at your age, you have some growing up to do {your statement on purity and your willingness to live a lie.} So does he, if he is going to be a part of your life. You're only 18 so investing one more evening in this isn't going to significantly change you life. But learning skills of being bluntly honest, well as Mastercard says.... Priceless.

By the way, if a boy is 30 and has these attitudes, DTMFA without a second thought.
More...
Posted by wine-o on February 1, 2014 at 5:38 AM · Report this
43
@38. You just hinted at something that I was thinking; this guy may be a closeted gay dealing with his conflicts by cloaking them in "holier than thou" proclamations about sexuality.

One more reason to DTMFA.
Posted by Clayton on February 1, 2014 at 6:53 AM · Report this
44
@34 "national mixed signals and blueballs champion"

lol.
Posted by EricaP on February 1, 2014 at 8:58 AM · Report this
45
"Purity should have nothing to do with sex."

But it does.

The word "purity" is used to refer to sexual conduct and reputation, and the context of the letter makes it clear that the LW was using it in that sense. There's what words mean and then what we wish they meant. I don't like that white privilege is called "privilege," because that suggests that those things are only available to a small fraction of the population and that they are undeserved by those who have them rather than withheld from other deserving people, but that is the concept's name whether I like it or not and if I want to have a meaningful discussion about privilege, I have to call it "privilege." As we've seen from the Santorum case, it takes more than wishing to get a word to change its meaning.

As for the value placed on virginity, purity and chastity having its origins in the prevention of the spread of disease in addition to keeping track of the fathers of children? It seems very likely to me. However, some of your details are off: Soap was around in Biblical times. The Sumerians used soap solutions in purification rituals. The Jews were famously hygienic, washing daily.

Even if you don't care about sexual purity, "Oh you shouldn't care about that stupid thing, stupid" isn't a helpful thing to say to someone who does who's asked for advice.
Posted by DRF on February 1, 2014 at 9:32 AM · Report this
46
Alright LW, I am a fellow Christian (I assume you are cause you are in a youth group). I was raised Catholic, so this is coming from another religious person.

DTMFA!!!!!

Go ahead and tell him you masturbate. If he thinks you masturbating is evil or expects you to give it up, immediately dump him! Do not try to convince him otherwise, just dump him. There is something extremely wrong with a guy who thinks porn and masturbation is evil. I mean, what healthy male dislikes masturbation? What healthy woman would? I have never known a guy who did NOT masturbate or look at porn! I have always assumed any guy I dated did these things!

Even if he agreed to "allow" you to continue masturbating, I GUARANTEE after you marry him, he'll expect you to stop and make your life MISERABLE until you do stop. So just dump him. Because he will expect you to not masturbate once you are married and having sex, and I have my doubts he will tailor sex to your needs due to his other religious beliefs about sex (meaning he probably sees it as procreation instead of pleasure, so why would he bother to get you off with sex?). You will then need to pleasure yourself while married to him, he will dislike this, and you will end up masturbating secretly in some closet behind his back, and when he finds out he'll shame you...

Hell, even if you can climax from him, you still may want to masturbate every now and then when married. I'm married and I masturbate still. Actually, now that I think about it, forgo talking to your BF about masturbation and just DTMFA instead.
Posted by toenail on February 1, 2014 at 10:18 AM · Report this
47
@46 is not spam.

One thing I see a lot of people saying is that this boy (he's a few years younger than our early-twenties LW) might grow out of his strict views. This is borne out by child and developmental psychology. The early to mid teens are the period during which religious and identity-group views are held most strictly. This kid might just be a year or two behind.
Posted by DRF on February 1, 2014 at 12:46 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 48
@47: Who cares? It's not her responsibility to fix him. Dumping some of these people and letting them find out (or not) on their own is the best solution.
Posted by undead ayn rand on February 1, 2014 at 1:47 PM · Report this
49
OK just a note because I was this girl once. (Now 23, still pansexual but living with my amazing partner). At 18 I fell for a sweet shy boy who felt horrible guilt for masturbating (called it an addiction because he couldnt sleep if he didnt), watched hentai instead of porn because "at least the characters are 2D" and thus there was less guilt, and wanted to make out but not do anything that led to orgasms because it was too close to sex, which he never had and wanted to wait for....all because of a vague religious feeling that God had rules about sex.

I did mostly what I think this girl should do: be brutally honest, tell them that your sexual pleasure is important to you, and that you care about him but can't stay if he's going to push his guilt onto you. And if he insists that you're in the wrong? DUMP HIM.

My then-bf was torture for about 6 months (I probably only stayed due to a delightful sense that I was "corrupting" him, when really I was just showing him how awesome and fun and normal sexuality was. We had sex about 10 months in. I loved him, but the first YEAR was really painful and frustrating in a lot of ways. We stayed together for 3 years, there was a lot of kinky sex the last 2 years. We're friends and I'm glad I helped him get over all that crap (and he's grateful). But it was REALLY HARD. I spent a lot of time bitching about him to my bff and feeling frustrated and rejected.
Posted by withabandon on February 1, 2014 at 8:13 PM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 50
Wow. Just wow. I thoroughly believe that this letter is real. Why? Well, I get the impression that the LW has been forced back into her own brand of closet because of religion. Also, even though she strayed, she's back in the fold, probably attending services and youth group on a regular basis, and most likely doing it for financial reasons (so her parents won't kick her out, pay for school, etc.). Otherwise, why on earth would she allow herself to be demeaned by his condescending attitude ... and accept it, unless she's trying to prove - at least outwardly - that she's behaving like a good girl? Like a good religious girl, who is now agreeing not to have sex until she gets married!!! If she's 18 and he's slightly younger, would anyone else like to bet that the parents would be pushing for them to get married when he reaches 18 (or finishes high school)?

This is not rational behaviour, but perfectly understandable if she feels coerced to conform publicly because, if she has sex again, then someone might talk but she could still masturbate or watch porn in private - so there'd be a reduced risk of being exposed and shamed some more.

These two are so mismatched, and so is she with her religious upbrinding. Time to let him go to find his ideal "pure" girl and for her to leech some of the religious dogma from her head.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on February 1, 2014 at 9:43 PM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 51
And another thing I just remembered:
I had an exciting lover 20-odd years ago who was Pagan/RCC convert. Imagine my outrage when he disclosed that - after every time we had sex - he went to confession. Naturally, he didn't understand why I was so upset because it wasn't as if he were revealing my name!

As for anyone who believes the LW's bf is just lying about not masturbating, don't discount the fact that he may have once or more - but then punished himself mentally or physically for defiling the temple he believes his body should be.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on February 1, 2014 at 9:52 PM · Report this
52
@48 Well of course it's not her responsibility to fix him. He's not her project; he's a person. But she might want to stay with this guy despite his hangups, and the probability that he might grow out of some of his rigidity is relevant to her decision.
Posted by DRF on February 1, 2014 at 10:04 PM · Report this
sissoucat 53
@45

If we agree that "purity" for devout Christians stems from the Bible, we have to read Leviticus which is the only book mentionning purity. And what Leviticus says about purity, is that it's all about keeping away from some foods, from some animal corpses, from skin illnesses, and from anything leaking from privates.

Look, I'm all for logic. If Right-Wing Christians really live the Word of the Bible, then they should never assimilate virginity with purity. They were very different matters for the writers of the Bible, and if Genesis isn't optional for fundamentalists, then Leviticus isn't either.

So, only atheists and non-fondamentalist Christians should be allowed to link purity to virginity. Cause God surely didn't.

As for soap, all the purity/cleanliness business explicitely mentions washing with water, never with soap. Either they did use the Babylonian and Egyptian recipes (heathen city-dwellers !) of soap-like substance for their body and clothes, and then they were asked to be dirtier than usual in order to restore purity and approach their God (unlikely), or they never knew soap/never used it for body or clothes washing, and had to be remembered to wash with water in order to restore purity, which means they didn't often wash with water.

They could have washed with oils : put oils, scrape dirt and oil with a strigil. A bit elaborate for a desert tribe... Most probably, they washed with sand.

For non-Bible readers, Leviticus lists all impurities and the way to restore purity. In order :

- eating an impure animal (no cure mentioned), touching a dead impure animal (wash your clothes, wait until night-time), touching a suddenly-deceased otherwise pure animal (wash your clothes, wait until night-time).
- having just given birth (stay away from anything holy for 40 days for a baby boy, 80 days for a baby girl, offering to priest, ceremony)
- some types of spots on skin, all called leper (isolation, priest checks ; if OK : offerings to priest, stay out of the tent for 7 days, cut all hair, wash clothes and body in water, ceremony, priest offerings ; if not OK, further isolation or living outside the camp and yelling "impure" to all passers-by)
- some type of spots on clothes or houses (isolation, priestly check, if OK : offering to priest and ceremony ; if not OK : destruction)
- any leeking from male privates : any object touched becomes impure, people touching those objects become impure (wash clothes and body with water, wait until night-time) ; the leeking guy waits for 7 days, then washes his clothes in water, then washes his body in a river, then offering to priest and ceremony)
- lost semen (wash all body with water, wait until night), lost semen on clothes (wash with water, wait until night)
- man-woman sex (wash body with water, wait until night)
- woman period : any object touched becomes impure, people touching those objects become impure (wash clothes and body with water, wait until night-time), man having sex with her becomes impure as if having leeking from his privates ; the woman waits for 14 days, then offering to priest and ceremony (no washing this time !)

And... that's all about purity. Okay, I lied : priest are also not allowed to grieve (tear clothes, etc.) for other deceased priests, or anybody else. Because purity !
More...
Posted by sissoucat on February 2, 2014 at 3:45 PM · Report this
John Horstman 54
MOS: this guy is "willing to date [you] anyway"? He's passing judgment on behaviors of yours that have exactly zero to do with him? These are abusive relationship dynamics. GTFO of the relationship: DTMFA. Also, point your browser over to Scarleteen; Dan's great and all, but the entire reason Scarleteen exists is to help out people like you. They're also better at working to help people within religious frameworks that the commenters here (and possibly Dan) are more likely to find intrinsically problematic, more likely to meet you where you are than recommend you ditch the church (I don't mean this as a dig - I'm similarly unable to offer good advice that comports with sexually-restrictive religious frameworks).

(Full disclosure: I'm a lifelong atheist, I think all religion is intrinsically harmful, and I especially think a church with members who think you're the spawn of Satan because of your same-sex attractions is going to be a toxic environment for you, but I also recognize that there are LOTS of different reasons people are members of churches and that you may be unable or unwilling to leave yours. Religious people have a right to good sex and healthy relationships, too, and you're going to need more extensive advice and support if you're in a position where you're likely to continue trying to date people with sex-negative religious beliefs, be it this guy or other people.)
Posted by John Horstman on February 2, 2014 at 8:06 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 55
@52: There's really not anything she mentions as relevant to sitting through this bullshit for the relative possibility of him getting over his crippling mental/religious/social/relationship handicaps.

"He wants to do the waiting until marriage thing for sex"

Is a good enough reason, ESPECIALLY along with the masturbation-control issues to dump the fucker.
Posted by undead ayn rand on February 2, 2014 at 8:09 PM · Report this
Eudaemonic 56
And in case LW thinks she's being selfless and caring in not dumping the idiot? A well-explained dumping is probably the absolute best thing that can happen to this guy.

There are a lot of things he needs to learn, and learning that he can't date people he won't treat well is a first step.
Posted by Eudaemonic on February 3, 2014 at 9:37 AM · Report this
57
One Big Thing Dan should have mentioned to this girl. People raised in an environment like this - believing that Jesus has opinions about what we should and shouldn't do with our bodies, believing that only PiV counts as sex, and believing that people should wait for marriage - are way more likely to end up as pregnant teenagers.

There's a perverse logic to this. You don't stop at masturbation because it's all sinful, and you're going to hell anyway. You don't use a condom because you were taught that condoms don't work. You can't ask your parents for contraception because your parents can't talk to you honestly about sex and health issues, and you're 150 miles from the nearest Planned Parenthood.

As for the thoughts that the boy is gay, I doubt it. I've known straight teens who believe in this strain of fundamentalist Christianity, and they behave like this. It's unfortunate he's lying about the masturbation, and that's about the best reason to break up with him right there. He might be telling the truth about the porn if his fundamentalist parents put on a porn blocker and he has no talent with computers. She was honest with her relationship and about how she feels about sex, and he hasn't been. There's a mismatch in commitment to being honest with each other, and she should end it.

Somebody else mentioned scarlet teen. Girl should go through the motions until she can get out of high school and go act like the adult she is in age, but not yet in lifestyle.
Posted by AdamWashington on February 3, 2014 at 10:19 AM · Report this
58
@48 I have to agree. It's not her job to lead him into the light of the open mindedness. If she feels the relationship is worth the effort she can lay out what she will and won't put up with but she should be willing to walk if he can't accept it.

But she's not his sexual fairy godmother. She shouldn't be expected put her own happiness and well-being at risk to help him.

As for the anti-masturbation video good lord, why is it so long?

Posted by msanonymous on February 3, 2014 at 3:23 PM · Report this
59
@53 It is more likely that this girl is using "purity" in the modern sense of sexual purity, chastity. Leviticus was written a long time before the English language even existed. A better source would be the AH Dictionary: It lists three different definitions for "purity," and one of them is "Freedom from spiritual or moral defilement; innocence or chastity." Oooh, look, their definition of "chastity" does not require virginity... Nice.

As for Leviticus, you'll notice that most of the items on your list forbid or advise caution about things that can transmit disease, like fluid from leaky genitals. Not bad for a few thousand years before germ theory.

As for the history, Jews in the Roman era (think time of Jesus, not time of Moses) owned bathtubs. King Herod had a big one, but a Jewish family was more likely to have something similar to a Victorian hip bath.
Posted by DRF on February 3, 2014 at 4:59 PM · Report this

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