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Thursday, January 16, 2014

Moms Shooting Their Kids

Posted by on Thu, Jan 16, 2014 at 9:11 AM

Just days after a Florida mother gunned down her son, daughter, and herself, a Utah mom picked up a gun and...

...shot and killed her two young daughters before turning the gun on herself the same day her fiance packed up his belongings and moved out of her house, authorities said.
Kyler Ramsdell-Oliva, 32, killed her pretty blonde daughters, Kenadee Oliva, 13, and Isabella Oliva, 7, Tuesday evening in their home in Syracuse, a town on the Great Salt Lake about 25 miles north of Salt Lake City.

Read the report again and you will see gun ideology working its special magic.

 

Comments (41) RSS

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Max Solomon 1
overwhelming despair + firearm access = homicide/suicide.

without the firearm, the impulse may remain, but it becomes far harder. it takes serious committment to achieve the same end.
Posted by Max Solomon on January 16, 2014 at 9:29 AM · Report this
venomlash 2
@1: This. This is the most likely reason why high rates of gun ownership tend to come with high rates of suicide.
Posted by venomlash on January 16, 2014 at 9:31 AM · Report this
You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me 3
Unwed mother at 19, dead murderer at 32... surprising how?
Sometimes the trash takes its self out.
Posted by You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me on January 16, 2014 at 9:31 AM · Report this
Lew Siffer 4
Charles Nancy Grace in the house! Rack up those clicks son!
Posted by Lew Siffer on January 16, 2014 at 9:37 AM · Report this
Gurldoggie 5
Further proof that there simply aren't enough guns in this country. More guns! More guns! More guns!
Posted by Gurldoggie http://gurldogg.blogspot.com on January 16, 2014 at 9:42 AM · Report this
Rotten666 6
The biggest crime here is she named her kid Kenadee.
Posted by Rotten666 on January 16, 2014 at 9:47 AM · Report this
Theodore Gorath 7
What I find insidious about the quoted section is how they make sure you know the kids were white (blonde) and "pretty" so you can feel the appropriate levels of mourning, as understood by the reporter/writer.

Because who would care if a couple ugly brown girls got killed, right?

Such a weird world we live in.

#1 has it exactly right, regardless of what any stupid or unbalanced commenters have to say.
Posted by Theodore Gorath on January 16, 2014 at 9:50 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 8
@ 1 is correct, and will shortly be disputed on this by Five Large and f.u.

@ 3 once again demonstrates that he's the only trash that needs to be taken out. (Figuratively speaking only.)

@ 7 beat me to what I was going to say.
Posted by Matt from Denver on January 16, 2014 at 9:54 AM · Report this
raindrop 9
@1 and @2: Absolutely.

And in the cases of an ex-boyfriend/husband who is out to stalk and many times kill ("If I can't have her, nobody can") - what should the woman do? Just a restraining order? What does someone do who is the crosshairs of someone with overwhelming rage?
Posted by raindrop on January 16, 2014 at 9:56 AM · Report this
seatackled 10
@3
So when do you take out your trash?
Posted by seatackled on January 16, 2014 at 9:56 AM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 11
@7,
I came to say the same... "pretty blonde" daughters? Although not entirely surprising given it's from the NY Post.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on January 16, 2014 at 9:59 AM · Report this
You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me 12
@10
I compost or recycle everything. What I can compost or recycle I use to create art that my agent sells through galleries in Manhattan, LA and London.
Posted by You_Gotta_Be_Kidding_Me on January 16, 2014 at 10:05 AM · Report this
emma's bee 13
@12: I've no doubt some of that art is nestled cozily in Seattle Blues' Italian villa.
Posted by emma's bee on January 16, 2014 at 10:26 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 14
@ 9, were either of the women in these cases being stalked? If not, you're off topic.
Posted by Matt from Denver on January 16, 2014 at 10:30 AM · Report this
Peteykins 15
I appreciate that the Post informed us that the daughters were pretty, because goodness knows that's so much worse than when ugly people get killed.
Posted by Peteykins http://sparklepony.blogspot.com on January 16, 2014 at 10:33 AM · Report this
lark 16
@7, 11 & 15 agree. This is an abject tragedy without the qualifiers. How senseless. My condolences to the family.

Charles,
While I agree that relatively easy access to a firearm rendered this horror, I remain dubious that "gun ideology" is at work here. To be sure, immediate despair and/or insanity factor in initially. However, @1 has a very good point that the mother's anger and despair would remain. And the weapon's availability did make it easier for this carnage. Still, I believe mothers killing their own children is rare in the human experience.
Posted by lark on January 16, 2014 at 11:01 AM · Report this
Matt from Denver 17
@ 16, rare, but distressingly common enough. When they reach that tipping point, they'll use poison or knives or (if the children are little enough) they'll drown or suffocate them.

I'll confess that I miss exactly what "gun ideology" is at work in these articles, but when I saw they were from the NY Post (no wonder they reported that the girls were "pretty" and "blond" ) it didn't matter to me what angle they were pushing. There's a lot more gun ideology at work when children negligently killed by firearms are reported by more sober media outlets as dying by "accident."
Posted by Matt from Denver on January 16, 2014 at 11:06 AM · Report this
The Empty Yellow Houses of Fort Lawton 18
3: How nice. & the kids?

We all despair. Even you.
Posted by The Empty Yellow Houses of Fort Lawton http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Lawton on January 16, 2014 at 11:10 AM · Report this
Allyn 19
@7 yes, exactly.
Posted by Allyn on January 16, 2014 at 11:17 AM · Report this
Allyn 20
@9 unwed teenaged mothers rarely kill their children, else there'd be far fewer of us genxers out there. fuck off.
Posted by Allyn on January 16, 2014 at 11:19 AM · Report this
21
What ever happened to the classic of the matron of the house taking her sweet time and poisoning them all slowly ?
Posted by ChefJoe on January 16, 2014 at 11:19 AM · Report this
22
In both cases, the mother was separating from the father. The obvious solution is to not allow couples with children to separate.
Posted by ChefJoe on January 16, 2014 at 11:20 AM · Report this
23
@7, @11, yes. Glad they mentioned the girls were pretty and blonde, or else I wouldn't know to be sad.
Posted by rca on January 16, 2014 at 11:23 AM · Report this
24
Since this story is basically the plot of Euripides' Medea, I'd say this kind of tragedy pre-dates "gun ideology" by a pretty wide margin.
Posted by Westside forever on January 16, 2014 at 11:26 AM · Report this
Max Solomon 25
@9: i'll bite, since i've lived through that exact situation with my little sister.

restraining order = gun seizure. how do you know that someone has a gun? registration/licensure. wouldn't stop every incidence, but it would stop most.

but we can't have registration/licensure, because tyranny.
Posted by Max Solomon on January 16, 2014 at 11:31 AM · Report this
NopeNope 26
I don't understand how access to guns has anything to do with these horrendous murders. Mothers who kill their children have done so in many many different ways. And if a mother is so unstable as to be driven to murder her own children I'm sure that the diffence between the ease of shooting them vs other methods is hardly a deciding factor. Frankly, the manner in which these two women murdered their children is of little importance other than the hope that the children suffered less than if they had been poisoned, suffocated or drowned.
Posted by NopeNope on January 16, 2014 at 12:22 PM · Report this
27
oh Chuck.

don't be as stupid as Goldy.

this is not a gun story.

it is a "shacking up is hell on the kids" story.

"Cops didn’t name the fiance, but said they had been to the home before on domestic calls."

children in homes with unmarried adults are at great risk oif death, abuse and neglect.

when is Slog going to get up in arms about it?

because the children.

and, after all, its not like she might of drowned them or anything....
Posted by Andrea Yates on January 16, 2014 at 12:34 PM · Report this
28
@26: http://marginalrevolution.com/marginalre…

"Our econometric results are consistent with the literature on suicide which finds that suicide is often a rash and impulsive decision–most people who try but fail to commit suicide do not recommit at a later date–as a result, small increases in the cost of suicide can dissuade people long enough so that they never do commit suicide."

In other words, killing with a gun is easier, so it means people succeed where they would normally fail and then not try again.
Posted by Hanoumatoi on January 16, 2014 at 12:44 PM · Report this
29
Try again, girls....

The USA has lower suicide rates than Japan and France and China, and many other countries.

Despite having three times as many guns as France, 50X as many guns as China, 200X japan.

Thirty nations with far lower rates of gun ownership have far more suicides than America.

guns≠suicide.

morons.
Posted by you should have asked us before embarrassing yourselves on January 16, 2014 at 1:02 PM · Report this
30
and wtf is you people's problem?

cute kids are good for the species.

ugly people are a drag on our progress.

in fact, an enlightened society would give free abortions to ugly chunky women.

which would be a policy all democrap women would benefit from.....
Posted by has Sandra Fluke had her free abortion toiay yet? on January 16, 2014 at 1:09 PM · Report this
venomlash 31
@29: Hoh hyeah? Explain this. Notice how American states with more guns have more suicide?
Posted by venomlash on January 16, 2014 at 1:40 PM · Report this
Fifty-Two-Eighty 32
Man, I really hate it when those awful, evil guns jump up off the shelf and go on killing sprees.
Posted by Fifty-Two-Eighty http://www.nra.org on January 16, 2014 at 1:49 PM · Report this
33
@31: it's almost like these people have dendritic blockages preventing from understanding statistics and sudoku.
Posted by Hanoumatoi on January 16, 2014 at 2:52 PM · Report this
Max Solomon 34
@32

5280, i expect you to chime in with a gunner tautology far before comment 32. Slog harder.
Posted by Max Solomon on January 16, 2014 at 3:04 PM · Report this
35
As has been demonstrated in dozens of reports and studies of suicide, the act is almost always impulsive, and when presented with even minimal hurdles the rate of attempt drops dramatically. That is why gun ownership and suicide (and murder/suicide) are so interdependent.
Posted by Chris Jury http://www.thebismarck.net on January 16, 2014 at 3:55 PM · Report this
36
31

after you explain @29. instead of ignoring it.

and your graph does not factor how rural the states are, or how elderly the population is (both of which increase suicide rates), or factor out long gun (which are not used in suicide) ownership . if it did it would tell a very different story.
something about correlation and causation.

Posted by you know better. you should be ashamed. on January 16, 2014 at 5:05 PM · Report this
37
@35 that's quite enough with your facts and rationality. Slog is about moral outrage and SELF-RIGHTEOUS INDIGNATION!
Posted by William F. Fuckley on January 16, 2014 at 5:23 PM · Report this
NopeNope 38
@28

This article is about infanticide. Not suicide.
Posted by NopeNope on January 16, 2014 at 5:51 PM · Report this
Max Solomon 39
@38: no it's not. it's familicide, of which the suicide is an integral bookend to the punishment of the errant spouse. "look what you forced me to do".

the oddity here is that a woman did it.
Posted by Max Solomon on January 16, 2014 at 8:02 PM · Report this
40
I basically don't believe that a person exists until I hear a physical description of them. The individual details are value neutral. But they were real young people who were shot. A lot of people get lost in the big numbers of shot 1z so it's useful to be reminded that each is a person

the whole racial privilege/prejudice talk gets a lot more unearned mileage for the pro-gun crowd than it does for us
Posted by alfresco on January 16, 2014 at 11:09 PM · Report this
Foggen 41
How disappointed you all would have been had she done this with a kitchen knife.
Posted by Foggen on January 17, 2014 at 11:32 AM · Report this

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