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Thursday, January 9, 2014

SLLOTD: Err on the Side of Blowjobs

Posted by on Thu, Jan 9, 2014 at 4:30 PM

Originally posted September 14, 2011.

I am a 16-year-old female. I have been in a monogamous relationship with a boy for seven months. My first, his too. A couple of months in, we began to explore masturbating each other and oral sex. He has gone down on me three times, but I have never given him a blowjob. I'm scared to because I'm scared he will be disappointed. We fight sometimes because he feels it's unfair that he goes down on me and I don't go down on him.

On top of this, he started doing something when we are in the midst of being sexual that I don't understand. He will stick the tip of his hard penis just inside the opening to my vagina, again and again. I guess you could call it "probing." I know enough to know that there's a slight risk of pregnancy, as pre-come can get a woman pregnant and he doesn't wear a condom when he does this. We are planning on having complete vaginal intercourse in the next few months, with condoms and birth control, but this is happening now and it worries me.

This is what I need advice about: I know that there is a very small risk of pregnancy even if we use condoms and birth control. I couldn't handle a child at my age or the humiliation of being pregnant at 16 and having to walk around town with the evidence out for all to see. I would have an abortion. He disagrees strongly with abortion, but he's not the one who would have to go through it all! So I would probably end up having an abortion without telling him, which seems completely unfair.

No Clue What To Do

My response after the jump...

I'm going to take your problems one at a time, NCWTD, in ascending order of importance/assholery.

1. A disappointing blowjob is always less disappointing than no blowjob at all, NCWTD, particularly for teenage boys. So it's always better to err on the side of blowjobs.

Yes, you'll probably be pretty inept at first. Take things slowly and only take him as far into your mouth as you feel comfortable with. (Feel free to wrap a fist or two around the base of his cock so you can control how fast and far his dick goes into your mouth.) Don't let your boyfriend rush or guilt you into blowing him until he comes by pointing to all the times—all the three times!—that he went down on you. Sucking cock is physically trickier and more taxing than eating pussy. That may seem crazy unfair—hasa diga eebowai—but on the bright side, it frees you from having to get him off with your mouth the first few dozen times you attempt to blow him.

2. Probing is low-risk for pregnancy, NCWTD, but there's still some risk. What worries me is that this activity makes you uncomfortable and either you haven't said anything to your boyfriend or you have said something and he's doing it anyway. Tell him no more probing, if you haven't already, and if he initiates probing after you've made it clear that you're not comfortable with it, break the fuck up with him. Which brings us to...

3. You're going to have to go Bitch Puddin' on his ass, NCWTD. Memorize this, say it to him, and mean it: "If I let you stick your dick in my vagina and I get pregnant, I am getting an abortion. If you can't live with that—if you aren't willing to shoulder the psychic risk of knowing that your girlfriend would get or actually got an abortion, while she shoulders the actual physical risk of an unplanned pregnancy—then I am never going to let you stick your dick in my vagina. You're free to disagree with my choice, of course, but you can't prevent me from making that choice. So what's it going to be?"

 

Comments (114) RSS

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seatackled 1
A sixteen-year-old girl who's now at least 18 will have been able to have any number of other boys between then and now. I hope she dumped the mother fucker already.
Posted by seatackled on January 9, 2014 at 4:39 PM · Report this
2
Blowjobs are like pizza even if bad, still decent
Posted by Seattle14 on January 9, 2014 at 4:50 PM · Report this
3
Oo! Oo! I know the answer to this one! Pick me!
Posted by LateBloomer on January 9, 2014 at 4:51 PM · Report this
4
Guy sounds like an asshole. She should ask herself why she's with him and why she wants to have any kind of sex with him. If the answer is anything like: "he's the best I can do" or "I feel like I have to to keep him," then maybe that radical feminist blogger who said all het intercourse is coerced has a point... Dan's answer was more practical and spot-on, as always.
Posted by Centrists Rule the World today on January 9, 2014 at 4:54 PM · Report this
Simple 5
The guy is not an asshole #4, he is a horny as fuck teenager. He should know that giving oral is its own reward, but he no know dat. I say to my son "sex is something you give someone, not something you take from them". Give the guy a break (and a smile) all you ladies out there and suck those cocks, please. Pretty please? We won't always come your mouth, your neck works pretty good, better yet your tits. Please just this once? I promise to text you in the morning.
Posted by Simple on January 9, 2014 at 5:03 PM · Report this
saxfanatic 6
So what's it gonna be boy? YES or NO?

So I guess she's dating Meat Loaf.
Posted by saxfanatic on January 9, 2014 at 5:19 PM · Report this
7
"Sucking cock is physically trickier and more taxing than eating pussy"

Really? I've always assume the opposite. Of course, I'm a straight man, so what do I know? ;-)
Posted by Timothy http://www.moreperfect.org on January 9, 2014 at 5:25 PM · Report this
8
@4 There's a difference between being an intentional asshole and just being a clueless, ignorant child. The behavior of the average 16 year old male is more the latter than the former, and the condition is not typically permanent. The women in his life will educate him, one way or another.

And if he's still clueless, then he'll probably eventually either reach out for advice himself, or drink himself to death.
Posted by Brooklyn Reader on January 9, 2014 at 5:31 PM · Report this
9
I don't miss being 16.
Posted by Amanda on January 9, 2014 at 5:33 PM · Report this
Alison Cummins 10
The clueless, ignorant child I was having sex with at sixteen was a more considerate lover than most adults I’ve had sex with. So no, that is absolutely not an excuse.
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 9, 2014 at 5:53 PM · Report this
biffp 11
Me either.
Posted by biffp on January 9, 2014 at 5:57 PM · Report this
12
Am I the only woman on the planet who would far rather swallow than get semen on/in me elsewhere? Even if I hated the taste, I'd still prefer that to a puddle of jizz on the sheets or the feeling of dried ejaculate on my skin.

Unless you take a full-on scrubby shower afterward, some little bit of cum will have escaped the reaches of the washcloth/wet-wipe/towel/tongue, and will be back to haunt you later. Itchy! Embarassing! Way grosser than a mouthful of half-babies.

Not to mention that a good blowjob-giver knows how to get the cock far enough back in one's mouth to avoid tasting the semen if need be.

tl;dr Swallowing is an efficient and graceful way to keep your nookie nook spic and span.
Posted by cumshot through the heart, @5's to blame on January 9, 2014 at 6:04 PM · Report this
13
Preach it! I agree with @8 though. This boy might be a selfish jerk, but he might just be an immature boy, enjoying himself so much that he was blind (or blinded himself) to nonverbal hints. Telling this girl to say flat-out, "No more of that!" is the right thing. It gives him a chance to prove that he's a good guy. But yes, after she makes her wishes known, it's one-strike-you're-dumped.
Posted by DRF on January 9, 2014 at 6:43 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 14
@7: I'd think if you were bi the opinion would hold more weight...
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 9, 2014 at 7:08 PM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 15
@2- That isn't true. It isn't really true of pizza and it's especially not true of blowjobs.
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceclop on January 9, 2014 at 7:20 PM · Report this
16
@7 - yeah, but Dan is a gay guy who thinks a vagina looks like "a canned ham dropped from a great height" so it's not like he's a great authority either. FWIW, I'm with you, cunnilingus is harder than fellatio. A Penis sticks out conveniently.
Posted by adam.smith on January 9, 2014 at 7:34 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 17
@16: What, you can't just use your invisible hand?

Seriously, I imagine the breath control, gag reflex, tongue, lips and teeth involved simultaneously make things more complicated.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 9, 2014 at 7:43 PM · Report this
18
Or maybe she should just hold her legs together when he tries to stick his dick in her. She could have pushed him away too.
Seems hypothetical anyhow - I don't know any 16 year old that can write that well. Interesting how abortion was downplayed as if it's no big thing - anyone ever hear of the Morning-after pill?
Posted by Catonaleash on January 9, 2014 at 7:55 PM · Report this
19
As a guy who has had plenty of blowjobs, I can chime in with others who say that a lousy blowjob is better than no blowjob. The only major no no for most guys is too much teeth. Some guys like a little tooth action, but err on the side of not scratching penises with teeth. Put your lips over your teeth, if possible. Also, don't blow guys that keep trying to touch you in ways you ask them not to, whether with their dick or anything else.
Posted by CoyoteConscious on January 9, 2014 at 8:15 PM · Report this
20
Sucking cock is physically trickier and more taxing than eating pussy.

Okay, Dan Savage, you know this how?
Posted by fubar on January 9, 2014 at 8:30 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 21
Any bi folks out there have an opinion on which is more taxing: Blowjobs or eating pussy?
Posted by Urgutha Forka on January 9, 2014 at 8:36 PM · Report this
I Hate Screen Names 22
Agree with the other dudes. A bad blowjob is better than no blowjob.

Protip for those self-conscious about their blowjob technique: enthusiasm goes a looooong way, more so than any other sexual activity. A gal who looks happy to suck my cock will get me off virtually every time, regardless of her mechanics.
Posted by I Hate Screen Names on January 9, 2014 at 8:43 PM · Report this
23
@15 agree to disagree
Posted by Seattle14 on January 9, 2014 at 8:46 PM · Report this
24
not one mention of STDs.

Danny resents the fact that STDs are ubiquitous among homosexuals.

He thinks it would serve society right if heterosexual kids got STDs as much as homosexuals.

His 'advice' to kids is criminally irresponsible, one can only assume he intentionally wants to encourage behavior that will infect kids.
Posted by Ninth Circle of Hell on January 9, 2014 at 8:51 PM · Report this
25
The CDC would advise the young lady not to have sex until she is married.

But what the fuck do they know, right?

Always trust a homosexual male over a Public Health Medical Professional.

Right?

Are we right?
Posted by Abstinence and Monogamy on January 9, 2014 at 9:01 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 26
@25: "The CDC would advise the young lady not to have sex until she is married."

If you could read, you would note-

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/sexualbe…

DASH has supported the development and evaluation of
All About Youth, a randomized, controlled trial testing two HIV/STD education programs for middle school students: one that emphasizes sexual abstinence until marriage, and one that emphasizes abstinence in conjunction with skill-building activities for condom and contraceptive use.

Guess what, you inbred hillbilly? Abstinence-only education performs worse abstinence suggesting programs that also teach children how to protect themselves from STDs.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 9, 2014 at 9:05 PM · Report this
27
and,
yeah;
pleasuring lady bits takes way more finesse.

as all Real Men know.

Danny should stick to canned ham....
Posted by it's own reward on January 9, 2014 at 9:06 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 28
@25: "The CDC would advise the young lady not to have sex until she is married."

If you could read, you would note-

http://www.cdc.gov/healthyyouth/sexualbe…

DASH has supported the development and evaluation of
All About Youth, a randomized, controlled trial testing two HIV/STD education programs for middle school students: one that emphasizes sexual abstinence until marriage, and one that emphasizes abstinence in conjunction with skill-building activities for condom and contraceptive use.

Guess what, you inbred hillbilly? Abstinence-only education performs worse than abstinence suggesting programs that also teach children how to protect themselves from STDs.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 9, 2014 at 9:06 PM · Report this
I Hate Screen Names 29
@25: The overwhelming majority of Americans do NOT wait until marriage to have sex. This has been true since the 50s:

http://www.guttmacher.org/media/nr/2006/…

So if you're insisting everyone be taught to wait until marriage, you're either a hypocrite or a pathetic virgin deeply resentful of the sex everyone else is having.
Posted by I Hate Screen Names on January 9, 2014 at 9:16 PM · Report this
30
26

Thank you for the link.

Someone as good at reading as you will quickly notice that we never said anything about abstinence-only.

Both programs you cite emphasize abstinence.

Ab.Sti.Nence.

And the CDC repeatedly notes that abstinence is the best way to avoid STDs.

Now what were you sputtering about?...

Posted by see? even you can understand it..... on January 9, 2014 at 9:17 PM · Report this
31
29

We resent vicious malicious animals giving deadly advice to children.

Children should be taught what they need to know and do to keep themselves safe.

Why do you have a problem with that?
Posted by Why do you hate The Children? asswipe. on January 9, 2014 at 9:22 PM · Report this
32
29

Abstinence is actually very common among high school children.

And that with zero cultural support for abstinence and in fact huge cultural pressures encouraging premarital sexual behavior.

according to Guttmacher more than half of 17 year olds have never had sex and 40% of 18 year olds were still abstinent.

just Imagine if the popular culture supported those children in their attempt to make the healthy choice....

you seem to be the one patheticly deeply resentful.

is that itchy yellow discharge getting to you?
Posted by we applaud you. clap.clap.clap... on January 9, 2014 at 9:40 PM · Report this
33
As someone who has done a lot of both, going doing on a guy is DEFINITELY WAY more taxing than going down on a girl. They're both taxing, mind you, just one is much more than the other.
Posted by smoakes on January 9, 2014 at 9:42 PM · Report this
seatackled 34
How come everyone is hung up on the blowjob and not on his abortion stance?
Posted by seatackled on January 9, 2014 at 10:40 PM · Report this
nocutename 35
@35: Because we can pretty much bet that if, at age 16, his girlfriend were to tell him she was actually pregnant, he'd change his attitude towards abortion pretty quickly.
It's easy to be anti-choice when you aren't faced with the prospect of becoming a teenaged parent.

Posted by nocutename on January 9, 2014 at 11:08 PM · Report this
36
@12 You are definitely not alone as 4 out of the 6 women who have given me blow jobs preferred to shallow, and I was more than happy to let them. ;)
It may also have something to do with me being a vegetarian, which apparently makes cum taste better.
Posted by CyberQuaker on January 9, 2014 at 11:31 PM · Report this
I Hate Screen Names 37
@32: There's a difference between preaching "abstinence until graduating high school" and "abstinence until married." The latter is wildly ineffective, actually raising teenage pregnancy rates.

If you want to suggest a "wait until college for intercourse" campaign, however, then I'm all ears. It's a lot more reasonable to ask 16-year-olds to delay penetrative intercourse until they're on their own than to ask them to wait 10 or so years until the average age of marriage. And to suggest they in the meantime, they can do other, non-penetrative recreational activities...
Posted by I Hate Screen Names on January 9, 2014 at 11:34 PM · Report this
38
As a bisexual, I agree with Dan that fellatio is much more physically taxing than cunnilingus. I've never choked on a vulva, nor had to push a woman back from uncomfortably fucking my throat without asking. Not that I don't enjoy giving a beej--quite the contrary! It's totally worth the hard work.
Posted by no catchy name on January 9, 2014 at 11:41 PM · Report this
Ophian 39
Anyone who points to people like Dan Savage as an example of "our declining society" is a fuckhead. This world needs more voices--like Savage's--telling young women that it is their primary right/responsibility to draw their own boundaries; affirming sexuality; bringing communication and reasonability to the world of sex.

That being said, Timothy @7, undead ayn @14, & al., as a fellator and cunnilinguist perhaps I can give an apples-to-oranges opinion:

Physiologically, I'd say they are different. To 'open mouth, use mouth/tongue/lips to stimulate genitalia' is different than to 'open mouth, use mouth/tongue/lips/mouth/throat to stimulate genitalia.

Oral sex, as a passing interlude in the general mix of things: not much difference. As a primary--and therefore usually extended--effort to bring a partner to orgasm: giving head to women is somewhat easier [physicallly] than to men, but the pace with men is a bit more brisk...I'd call it, on average, a draw [everyone gets to complain about jawcramp].

I can't think of an equivalent to deepthroating or irrumation, so I suppose that varsity oral sex is toughest on the cock-takers, but...

"Sucking cock is physically trickier and more taxing than eating pussy."

"Trickier" depends on the person, and "taxing"...well if it's good, one might pull that muscle today and worry about it tomorrow.

What was the question?
Posted by Ophian on January 9, 2014 at 11:43 PM · Report this
40
It seems completely reasonable to me that blowjobs take more work. But, let's be honest, a few hours of practice and most folks are at least journeyfolk level.

...now can we stop feeding those ugly trolls? They are just looking for a rise after sputtering hate. Anyone who reads Dan's column for any length of time knows he is honest and serious about the use of protection to prevent STDs. The trolls aren't sincere in this complaint. They're just hateful people who dislike (hate?) Dan because (arbitrary reason - pick one or more: homophobia/insecurity/boredom/political ideology/inability to express themselves with measured rationality) ... look at the ad hominem (not so subtle) attacks to prove this.

if Dan had said, "and beware the very real threat of STDS," these trolls would find something else to attack Dan for .

and.... I'm out
Posted by non-sequitr on January 10, 2014 at 12:16 AM · Report this
41
40

if..........
Posted by ....if only you were not so full of shit, credulous fanboy on January 10, 2014 at 3:59 AM · Report this
42
39

the behaviors Danny advocates are guaranteed to produce STDs and out-of-wed children.

surprisingly, our society has skyrocketing rates of both.

"sex positive" behaviors do not destroy lives and societies.

Danny is a spokesprincess for the team that manages 20% HIV rates and 68% rates for other STDs.

let us guess, you look to Roseanne Barr for diet advice as well........
Posted by open your eyes, child on January 10, 2014 at 4:10 AM · Report this
43
37

you should explain it to Danny.

what he advocates is wildly ineffective, and malicious; actually raising teenage pregnancy and STD rates.
Posted by 100%FOOLPROOF&SAFE! Method of getting STDs, that is... on January 10, 2014 at 4:15 AM · Report this
seatackled 44
@35
Maybe I've watched too many episodes of Seinfeld, especially the one with the abortion pizza and Elaine finding out that the guy she was seeing was anti-choice.
Posted by seatackled on January 10, 2014 at 5:39 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 45
@23: I envy your lack of two life experiences. There was a time when I believed the same thing, but I learned better.

FWIW, bad pizza is much, much worse than bad blowjobs.

@35: I suspect it's also a factor that his abortion stance is a much less immediate problem than the probing, particularly if she's expressed her discomfort.
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 10, 2014 at 6:03 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 46
It occurs to me that "better" is probably not the right word, actually...
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 10, 2014 at 6:04 AM · Report this
47
What he's doing, regardless of intent, regardless of whether or not she's said it needs to stop, needs to stop RIGHT FUCKING NOW. Otherwise, one of these times, he's gonna slip that shit all the way in, and she's gonna be all "what the fuck just happened?" In other words, she'll have lost her vaginal virginity (because she is not a sexual virgin) without her explicit consent. And that's fucked up, and maybe the boy is just a horned up teen, and maybe he's thinking with his dick, but if she doesn't lay this shit out for him, he's going to continue thinking with his dick in situations like this.

And Jesus holy god, I remember agonizing over my "vaginal virginity." And then one day it was over, and I was pretty much like "thank fucking Christ."
Posted by MinnySota on January 10, 2014 at 6:32 AM · Report this
Alison Cummins 48
Eating pussy waaaay easier and yummier than sucking cock. Hands down. I have never had trouble getting a woman off, even my first time. Nothing to get used to: duck to water. I’m 49 and I still need coaching on blowjobs. (Not that I’ve had the occasion to give that many.)
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 6:46 AM · Report this
nocutename 49
I would probably end up having an abortion without telling him, which seems completely unfair.

What's unfair about having an abortion without telling the person who impregnated you, if he impregnated you without "telling" you (i.e. discussion and mutual consent) he was going to penetrate you (without birth control) when you haven't agreed to it and when you say it "worries you?"
You're worrying about fairness?

How about the fairness or unfairness of having intercourse with someone without consent?
How about the fairness or unfairness of ignoring using contraception when it isn't going to be you getting pregnant?
How about the fairness or unfairness of "disagree[ing] strongly with abortion, but he's not the one who would have to to through it all?"

If NCWTD didn't have the nerve to speak up for herself two- and-a-half-years ago (and I sure hope she found a way to summon it), I would say that in the event of an accidental pregnancy occurring in this or a similar situation, you do the "fair" thing and tell the guy that you're pregnant and going to abort--if for no other reason than he should know about the consequences of his actions for future sexual encounters so he doesn't continue to act the same way--and then, regardless of his disagreement, strong or mild (or suddenly evaporating in the cold reality of becoming a father at 16), you go ahead and have the abortion. Period. You don't need his approval or even his permission (though depending on where you live, you might need your parents').

If you're really worried that he will try to talk you out of it, or involve his parents to strong-arm you, or some such, then you have the abortion without telling him. But you tell him after the fact for the same reason: he should know what his irresponsible and reckless actions led to.

It's only "fair" to look out for yourself and your future--somebody sure needs to.
More...
Posted by nocutename on January 10, 2014 at 7:36 AM · Report this
nocutename 50
Re: degrees of difficulty comparing and contrasting cunnilingus and fellatio, I've never gone down on a woman, so I can't weigh in--thank you bisexuals!--but I will say that much as I love giving them (especially when I get positive feedback), they're not called blow JOBS for nothing. They can be a lot of work.
Posted by nocutename on January 10, 2014 at 7:39 AM · Report this
51
LW: Stop. He disagrees with the abortion you'd choose to have if you got pregnant. He whines for sexual favors. Cut your losses and save "complete vaginal intercourse," whatever that is, for somebody who respects you.

And DO NOT give this loser a blowjob. Cut him loose and find somebody better.
Posted by treehugger on January 10, 2014 at 7:59 AM · Report this
52
@5: That begging that your post devolved to? Yeah, that's why women think you're an asshole. Not because you dared to ask for a blowjob.
Posted by treehugger on January 10, 2014 at 8:01 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 53
@37: Exactly. I have no problem with Abstinence being taught as a coping mechanism for avoiding pregnancy and STDs, however what makes our little troll lobotomized is for when teenagers inevitably ignore the advice, they need to know that condoms are a very imperfect but necessary stopgap to both.

The people who think as he does, in the bible belt, don't teach kids that condoms are an option, therefore the STD rates and teenage pregnancy rates are high.

He's a complete moral failure.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 10, 2014 at 8:21 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 54
@47: "In other words, she'll have lost her vaginal virginity"

Technically, hasn't she already has if he repeatedly sticks the tip in? The whole concept is pretty arbitrary.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 10, 2014 at 8:33 AM · Report this
55
@45,

Bad pizza is inedible: Gluten Free cardboard with red coloring and tasteless white goo on top. The real problem is in the comparison to good pizza, and I won't elaborate because that is as personal as the best way you've gotten oral sex. FWIW, outside of some canine scratches (the teeth, not the species), it's all been (at least) good. And for the record, that first time your partner holds you in their hand(s), looks you over and... Even if it wasn't expert, it was awesome!

Peace
Posted by Married in MA on January 10, 2014 at 9:04 AM · Report this
56
I have never received a disappointing blowjob in my entire life and I don't know any other man who has. Seriously. I - and every other man I know - have welcomed them all with gratitude and joy.

I have received very inexpert blowjobs, and I was still delighted to get them. Delighted.

I don't see how an inexperienced teen boy could possibly be in any position to judge the quality of a hummer. Porn may be to blame for the writer's insecurity, but no other part of their sex resembles porn, and no other aspect of their whole lives resemble anything represented in the media, so why should anyone expect fantasy representations of fellatio to be accurate? Don't worry; he'll be happy.

The old joke says that sex is like pizza: when it's good, it's very good, and when it's bad, it's still pretty good. That may not be true of all sex, but it is true of all blowjobs.

Arousal is in the mind, not the genitals. Blowjobs are all great becuause it's the thought that counts.
Posted by Charlie Mas on January 10, 2014 at 9:18 AM · Report this
57
Alison @48 -- I'm the reverse: much more confident about my bjs. But I'm intrigued by your talents, as someone who is myself generally hard to get off. Have you gone down on women who hadn't come from oral before (or rarely)?
Posted by EricaP on January 10, 2014 at 9:20 AM · Report this
58
53

ooooh....

a mind reader!

guess our weight next?

an enlightened sex education would teach children that abstinence is the clearly superior in-a-class-of-its-own 100% foolproof safe way to avoid STDs and pregnancy.
Just like the CDC advocates.
It would also teach them the range of contraceptive options, with a realistic discussion of the failure rates.
the deceptive misnomer 'safe sex' would be replaced with the Truth in Advertising approved 'somewhat less dangerous sex' label.

Danny doesn't even pretend to know or care what the CDC advocates.
Posted by the moral judgements of cretin slime do sting not on January 10, 2014 at 9:24 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 59
@58: "an enlightened sex education would teach children that abstinence is the clearly superior in-a-class-of-its-own 100% foolproof safe way to avoid STDs and pregnancy. "

Yes, the hybrid programs do this, oh ignorant one. Dan's not an abstinence counselor. He's not a primary school teacher. His advice should be utilized if someone decides that abstinence isn't for them, and it's valuable in that context.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 10, 2014 at 9:28 AM · Report this
Alison Cummins 60
EricaP — nope. Some got off disappointingly quickly, before I’d really had time to get into it. Not sure I have talents, just very responsive partners. I get a buzz off pussy so I’d be happy to just stay there forever — I don’t start feeling inadequate and give up if it takes a while. Maybe I’m hard to get off but don’t know it so everyone else seems easy by comparison?

I don’t think I ever offered oral without penetration, because that’s how I get off, but not everyone likes that. (And no, not all lesbians like either giving or receiving oral.)
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 9:41 AM · Report this
61
For the LW,

No contact between the tip of the penis and the entrance of the vagina, w/o contraception. And no means no.

Outercourse is a lot of fun as well.

Peace
Posted by Married in MA on January 10, 2014 at 9:43 AM · Report this
62
59

OK.

so Danny is the Witchdoctor of sexual health; peddling leech blood letting and quackery for those who don't want to listen to the CDC.

got it.

has Danny ever thought of advocating praying away STDs?
that might work as well....

Posted by Sex Ed for Really Really Dumb Dummies on January 10, 2014 at 9:50 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 63
@62: Dan offers healthy options for handling mental and physical aspects of sex for those who have sex before marriage.

The idea that persons would never have sex before marriage is moral homeopathy. Fake and substanceless.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 10, 2014 at 10:06 AM · Report this
64
#5, @8 - I remember being a horny teenager. Heck, even at an advanced age, I'm still horny as hell; but I never, ever tried to sneak even "just the tip" without explicit (and usually enthusiastic) agreement. It's not just innocent horny guy behavior to try - it's a kind of fundamental disrespect for another human being. At best it's a lack of respect for another person's (literal) boundaries. At worst it's a sociopathic dehumanization of women. So I stand by what I said: asshole. Doesn't mean his assholery can't be corrected, and maybe he'll snap to when she points out how bad it is. She shouldn't have to.
Posted by Centrists Rule the World today on January 10, 2014 at 10:26 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 65
@55: But true badness in bad pizza isn't determined by the ingredients, so much as by how long it's been sitting on the floor of your dorm room. If you're hungry enough, though, that can still be quite satisfactory--and the same is true of BJs; to get a bad one, you've probably got to be over a certain age and level of experience. Until then, anything you can get will probably be awesome.
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 10, 2014 at 10:28 AM · Report this
66
Thanks for the elaboration, Alison.
Posted by EricaP on January 10, 2014 at 10:42 AM · Report this
67
10: So I guess you just operate under the assumption that your experience is universal? Because that one person was giving and generous at 16 that means all other 16 year old kids must live up to that standard? Maybe he was unusually mature for his age and not really the yardstick to measure everyone else by.
Posted by Jizzlobber on January 10, 2014 at 10:42 AM · Report this
68
Or mature for HER age, as the case may be.
Posted by Jizzlobber on January 10, 2014 at 10:44 AM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 69
@56- You don't know me personally, but I exist and I'm telling you: Some blowjobs are lamer than handjobs. It happens. Maybe I'm just a jaded sexual gourmet, but some people don't know how to suck dick and act like they're doing you a huge favor by enen putting their mouth on your dick. It's lame.

@65- You've never had Temp-T-Freez Pizza. It's bad from fresh from the oven, from the fridge the next morning, covered in ranch dressing...
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceclop on January 10, 2014 at 10:48 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 70
@56 and 69: Me too.

Some blowjobs are lamer than handjobs. It happens.

There are a lot of things that can go wrong with a blowjob--we tend to think it's all about the enthusiasm and the skill, but it's also about having a large variety of medical issues not choose that particular moment to go spectacularly wrong. Like with pizza--sometimes it's bad for reasons not owing to the elements that originally made up that particular pizza.

@65- You've never had Temp-T-Freez Pizza. It's bad from fresh from the oven, from the fridge the next morning, covered in ranch dressing...

But if I were hungry enough...
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 10, 2014 at 10:53 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 71
@70: I'm never hungry enough for Domino's or Red Baron. If that's all that's available, I'd rather masturba... er, buy Totino's.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 10, 2014 at 11:29 AM · Report this
Alison Cummins 72
Jizzlobber @67 “Because that one person was giving and generous at 16 that means all other 16 year old kids must live up to that standard?”

Kind of, yes. Even a toddler is capable of being pro-social. People can be decent human beings at most ages. I don’t personally know any sixteen year olds who lack empathy — that’s psychopathy and is not age-dependent. If you were a psychopath at sixteen you’ll be one when you’re sixty.

Why, are you a sixteen year old boy hoping that we’ll all just say “boys will be boys” and let you off the hook when you rape someone?
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 11:52 AM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 73
@70- If I was literally dying of hunger, sure I'd eat it if nothing else was available. But I've never been literally dying of hornyness. I'm not a Vulcan.
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings http://www.reddit.com/r/spaceclop on January 10, 2014 at 11:59 AM · Report this
74
@ 72 -
If you were a psychopath at sixteen you’ll be one when you’re sixty.


This is exactly wrong. Because that is not true. In fact, you cannot even be diagnosed as a psychopath (anti-social personality disorder) until you are 18 for precisely the reason that many adolescents show traits of psychopathy, but it is transient, and doesn't correlate well to adulthood.
Posted by brent.b on January 10, 2014 at 12:06 PM · Report this
75
@49 I read that as completely unfair to her, that she would have to go through the whole thing alone and with no support from the person who was equally responsible for it happening. And also no financial support from him for getting the abortion. And she is right - it is completely unfair.
Posted by uncreative on January 10, 2014 at 12:07 PM · Report this
Eudaemonic 76
@72: I think he meant that learning processes are learning processes, and that one person already knowing something doesn't mean we should expect everyone to know it no matter where they are in the process. Learning doesn't work that way.

I knew a lot of things at 16 that most 16-year-old kids shouldn't be expected to know. Sex isn't some special thing that good people are born knowing how to do, and bad people are born not knowing how to do. No one is born knowing how to do it right; some of us were lucky enough to learn early, and some of us were lucky enough--by pure chance--that our early efforts turned out well.

But "lucky" is not a standard to which to hold people.
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 10, 2014 at 12:09 PM · Report this
77
@ 72 -
Why, are you a sixteen year old boy hoping that we’ll all just say “boys will be boys” and let you off the hook when you rape someone?

Because there is no middle ground between realizing that most 16 year olds are probably not yet their best selves (or exactly as culpable as an adult) and just letting them off the hook for rape?
Posted by brent.b on January 10, 2014 at 12:15 PM · Report this
Alison Cummins 78
Eudaemonic @76, Jizzlobber @67 did not say anything at all about learning processes. Neither did anyone else.

At sixteen, you’ve had at least sixteen years of learning how to interact with other people. Lots of sixteen year olds are nice people who interact with others respectfully. That doesn’t mean they know how to give a good blowjob, but that’s not what we’re talking about.
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 12:26 PM · Report this
Alison Cummins 79
brent b @72: Thanks for the clarification.

brent b @77: No, more... an obnoxious way of asking why jizzlobber @67 is so invested in the idea that sixteen year olds should not be expected to be decent human beings.

I was responding to Brooklyn Reader @8 who said: “@4 There's a difference between being an intentional asshole and just being a clueless, ignorant child. The behavior of the average 16 year old male is more the latter than the former”

First, I don’t actually see the difference. You might or might not grow out of it, but you’re behaving like an asshole right now. If you are behaving like an asshole to your girlfriend at any age then she should dump you.

Second, sixteen year olds are not clueless ignorant children. They suffer a great deal — they’re in high school after all! — and are generally pretty perceptive and thoughtful if you give them a chance. I thought Brooklyn Reader @8 was being unfairly dismissive of teenagers.

Judging from my own experience, it’s even possible that some kind and generous teenaged lovers grow up to develop a thicker skin and learn to be more selfish. Not saying that this happens, just that... my experience of adults is not better than my experience of teenagers.
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 12:57 PM · Report this
80
@ 79 - I think that the difference between adults and young teens is relevant in the context of the letter. There are some behaviors that you might tell someone to immediately dump someone over if that someone were 30, but at 16 you might be willing to give a second chance. There is probably still hope at 16, but probably not at 30. I think that is all anybody was really saying. At 16, this is something the kid probably just hasn't thought about enough to figure out yet, and something our society neglects to teach to kids. Kids who go to schools with abstinence only education (or what passes for sex ed even otherwise) and who have parents who don't want to talk about sex end up with no real guidance on how to be a decent person in the cotext of sexual relationship often get off to a rocky start.
Posted by brent.b on January 10, 2014 at 1:10 PM · Report this
Eudaemonic 81
It's also possible to win the gold medal in the Olympics. Most people can't, though; so what's your point?

Sixteen year olds are sixteen. Acting like a typical sixteen year old does not mean they're a psychopath, or a rapist, or whatever other term you want to use to pretend that the occasional exceptional one isn't exceptional.
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 10, 2014 at 1:11 PM · Report this
Alison Cummins 82
What’s the difference between being a decent person and being a decent person in the context of a sexual relationship?

And has anyone here besides me had a good experience with sex as a teenager?
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 1:15 PM · Report this
Eudaemonic 83
83: Yours was exceptionally good. Congratulations; you were lucky. Now, kindly refrain from telling everyone else that your good fortune proves that 16 year olds are really adults, or whatever else you think it proves. The fact that you were lucky proves nothing other than that you were lucky.

What's the difference between being a decent person at sixteen and being a decent person after a few decades of learning how to do it? A lot. And that difference is mostly luck.
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 10, 2014 at 1:23 PM · Report this
84
Her choice for an abortion is fine if she's lucky enough to live in a state where a 16 yr old girl CAN get an abortion by choice.
Think about it. The advice here is not appropriate for a teenage girl who'lives in a basically non-abortion OR parental notification state.
Good luck teen age girls.
Posted by solitasolano on January 10, 2014 at 1:27 PM · Report this
Alison Cummins 85
I have no idea whether mine was exceptionally good at being a decent person. Most of the women I know recall their teenaged lovers with great fondness.

Are you saying that you and your lovers/ crushes were jerks to eachother until your 18th birthdays?

*** *** ***

“What's the difference between being a decent person at sixteen and being a decent person after a few decades of learning how to do it?”

At sixteen you’ve had over a decade and a half of learning how to be a decent person. We can always learn more, but that should get you the basics. Judging from the sixteen year olds I know, it usually does.
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 1:31 PM · Report this
86
@82 - The difference is that kids get a ton of specific guidance and rules on how to be a decent person in lots of other contexts, but in the context of sex they have to figure it out for themselves. That, combined with teenage hormones and often a socialized discomfort about discussing sex, is a recipe for some problems. Problems that are much more excusable if you are 16 than 30. Also, 16 year olds aren't as good at being decent people in a general as adults either. So, even if there were no difference, the point would still stand.

@ 81 explains pretty well the problem with the logic "I had good experiences as a teenager so therefor everyone else who doesn't is just an inexcusable asshole--age has nothing to do with it."
Posted by brent.b on January 10, 2014 at 1:36 PM · Report this
Eudaemonic 87
I have no idea whether mine was exceptionally good at being a decent person. Most of the women I know recall their teenaged lovers with great fondness.

I know. It's quite clear, at this point, Mr. Romney, that you don't understand that other people didn't have as much money as you did growing up. However, boasting about your total lack of understanding for the lives of everyone less fortunate than yourself doesn't make you look as good as you seem to think.

Are you saying that you and your lovers/ crushes were jerks to eachother until your 18th birthdays?

No, Mr. Romney, I'm not saying everyone else starved. Are you seriously claiming to be so daft as to fail to grasp the concept that, while most people do not starve, most people are also not so fortunate as yourself? That you are so far from starving that people can be far hungrier than you without actually starving?

At sixteen you’ve had over a decade and a half of learning how to be a decent person. We can always learn more, but that should get you the basics. Judging from the sixteen year olds I know, it usually does.

Thanks, Mr. Romney, for telling us more about how fortunate you have been. The fact that you don't understand why other people have to get jobs and work for decades in order to support a family, and can't just do it out of their own pockets at 16, isn't really something to brag about.
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 10, 2014 at 1:39 PM · Report this
Alison Cummins 88
brent.b — But they do figure it out for themselves, don’t they?

The logic is, “I had good experiences as a teenager and so did a lot of my women friends, and my experiences as an adult haven’t been better, so the argument that a sixteen year old’s problems are purely due to age is unconvincing.”
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 1:45 PM · Report this
89
@85 I remember one boyfriend quite fondly. We went out for a couple of months that were very nice, and mostly involved kissing & mutual fondling. Then we broke up amicably, but I can't remember why. Maybe because at sixteen I didn't feel ready for PIV or oral?

Over the next few years I remember giving blowjobs to a bunch of other teen guys, to get some sexual experience without making myself vulnerable to pregnancy. Those other guys were happy to get what I was offering, but I have no fond memories of them. I wouldn't accept oral, because I'd been assaulted that way (at sixteen, by the boyfriend of my best friend). And I'm hard to get off and hadn't learned about fantasy & vibrators yet, so no one brought me anywhere near orgasm manually.

Things got much better when I was twenty and learned how to masturbate to orgasm, and got a nice boyfriend.

Posted by EricaP on January 10, 2014 at 1:47 PM · Report this
90
@89 just to clarify: that's one nice bf at 16, and a different nice one at 20. Also one assault at 16, and a bunch of bjs that did not lead to relationships or fond memories.
Posted by EricaP on January 10, 2014 at 1:50 PM · Report this
Alison Cummins 91
Eudaemonic, when I say that the sixteen year olds I have known have been decent people I’m not just talking about the one I had sex with. I’m talking about my friends and cousins, extended family, the kid down the street. I don’t know what they are like in bed but I do know they care about others and are interested in learning. I have trouble imagining that none of them are interested in their partners’ experience of sex.

So my question stands: am I really the only one here who had good experiences as a teen? Given teenagers’ reputations as being both romantic and highly motivated, and given that I am not alone among my friends, I’d be surprised — but if I am, then I’ve learned something.
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 1:57 PM · Report this
Eudaemonic 92
@88: ...so the argument that a sixteen year old’s problems are purely due to age is unconvincing.”

Can you quote the line where you think someone was making that argument?
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 10, 2014 at 1:58 PM · Report this
93
@ 88 - Yes. That is an anecdote. The flaw in logic is in extrapolating from a single anecdote, especially in contradiction to actual studies.
Posted by brent.b on January 10, 2014 at 1:58 PM · Report this
Alison Cummins 94
Eudaemonic @92:

Brooklyn Reader @8: “There's a difference between being an intentional asshole and just being a clueless, ignorant child. The behavior of the average 16 year old male is more the latter than the former”
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 2:05 PM · Report this
Canadian Nurse 95
@85: I think the split here is that a lot of us read about arguing for BJs and putting the tip in for 16 year olds at 7 mos into a relationship & we think neither "rape" nor "jerk." We think, "doesn't understand continual, enthusiastic consent", or "unsure when to argue vs break up."

Neither of those things were concepts I understood at 16, and I don't think that makes me a psychopath at 36.
Posted by Canadian Nurse on January 10, 2014 at 2:07 PM · Report this
Canadian Nurse 96
I'd say that even my fondest relationships as a teenager had much more complexity with boundary setting than now. I either dated guys from my church, which was full of rules & guilt, or dated guys from school, where boundaries were almost always set by me saying, "Don't do that again."

I have some warm memories from those times and those relationships, but they don't sound that different than the LW's description.
Posted by Canadian Nurse on January 10, 2014 at 2:14 PM · Report this
Alison Cummins 97
brent.b,

If someone says that sixteen year olds can’t be expected to be thoughtful but my experience of sixteen year olds is that they are when it counts, there’s a conflict that needs to be resolved. Brooklyn Reader @8 didn’t even say what their dismissal of teenagers was based on, if anything.

Maybe I won the lottery several times and met the world’s only thoughtful teenagers, and my friends and I had the only good sex that teenagers ever had. Sure, that’s possible — but unlikely. I’m not that special and I don’t see why the teenagers I’ve known would be that special. But yes, it’s possible.

You say you have “actual studies” that prove that my friends and I are more special than we realize? That’s great: it would resolve the conflict and I will proceed to feel special and blessed.
Posted by Alison Cummins http://cleanmyscreen.peghole.com/ on January 10, 2014 at 2:18 PM · Report this
Eudaemonic 98
@94: "more the latter than the former”

Are you aware that "more the latter than the former" and "purely the latter" are very different phrases that mean very different things?

Can you find an example of anyone actually making the argument you claim to be disproving?
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 10, 2014 at 2:27 PM · Report this
99
@ 97 - Studies. Yes. We already discussed how you can't diagnose a psychopath at 16, that is one example. There are many more. It isn't hard to find support for the fact that 16 year olds do not have fully developed brains and as a result sometimes lack in qualities relevant to this conversation. Google is your friend.

And I think if you read @ 95/96, you will see what I meant about how society doesn't prepare kids for sex they way they do for live in general. People tell kids who to hold doors open for, to say thank you and please, etc--how to be caring and considerate in a variety of situations, with real and concrete instructions. But most kids don't get told the type of things canadian nurse is talking about. Which is a shame, and it leads to some pretty unfortunate situations--situations where age and lack of experience and information play a role (which is absolutely not to say those things absolve all responsibility).

All of these things together are why some people might read the letter and say, "There's a difference between being an intentional asshole and just being a clueless, ignorant child. The behavior of the average 16 year old male is more the latter than the former.”
Posted by brent.b on January 10, 2014 at 2:39 PM · Report this
undead ayn rand 100
Teenagers and twentysomethings can be absolute shits and this should not necessarily be held over them at all points in their lives varying on the content of their behavior. But at what point do we instruct them in proper behavior? At what point do we hold them to any standard and teach them what is right versus coddling and teaching them that such behavior is acceptable?
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 10, 2014 at 2:59 PM · Report this
101
With regards to the quality of love @16,

If your life is pretty much an emotional washing machine (just because of the academics, family life, self righteous pressures, etc.), a sucky quality of life trumps a decent lover. Most of that emotional catastrophe went away in my early 20s (when, as I understand it, my brain was done rewiring itself for adulthood). My experience was worse than some, but hey, it's done.

As a parent of teens, my concern is to lower their pressure levels in the hope they might enjoy high school. It's enough for me to see somebody enjoy it.

Peace
Posted by Married in MA on January 10, 2014 at 3:02 PM · Report this
102
Firstly, I'm another bi person who definitely thinks that blow jobs are more difficult/taxing than eating pussy. It is harder to learn how to eat pussy effectively if you're not naturally talented at it, but once you figure it out, it's a lot easier.

Blow jobs, on the other hand, are pretty easy to figure out but never seem to be physically easy to do. Even when I was really in practice, they never really got easier on me. I'm personally kind of glad that my current partner prefers PiV so strongly to blow jobs- I don't mind giving them sometimes, but I couldn't be with someone who wanted them every day because it's just too much work.

As for 16-year-old assholery... there's still a lot of crud floating around the culture that makes it hard for teenagers to figure out what they're doing in a relationship. Most teenagers are really insecure and awkward and kind of embarrassed about having sex, so they try to avoid talking about it even with the people with whom they're doing it.

So how does this work, exactly? Some teenagers never get past holding hands together, because they're too scared to ask if they can do something and get rejected. Another approach, which I'm pretty sure was happening here, is that one person will try something and just wait for the other person to say no or stop them; if that never happens, they'll just keep going, assuming it's okay. It feels easier to them than talking about it, because talking about it would be embarrassing/moodkilling/etc.

And guess what? This attitude is not limited to teenagers- we see it all the time when people write in to Dan about how they don't know how to dirty talk, or they don't know how to tell their partner that their technique sucks, or they're afraid to talk about their fantasies. People have a difficult time talking about sex in their relationships, and this is a much bigger problem for teenagers than it is for adults.

I wish the standard was that any guy who tried this without consent is a jerk, but the fact is, until we eradicate the shame around talking about sex, I feel bad applying that standard to 16-year-olds. It's not their fault that it feels so incredibly shameful to talk about sex.
More...
Posted by alguna_rubia on January 10, 2014 at 6:16 PM · Report this
103
63

danny said not a word to this child about protecting herself.

there was nothing 'healthy' in his advice.

Posted by child abuse on January 10, 2014 at 6:39 PM · Report this
104
As a bisexual female, I agree with Dan that giving oral sex to women is less complicated and less taxing than giving oral sex to men. Like Allison C, I had no problem getting a woman off my first time, and , for Erica P, yes, also getting off women who had not been able to get off in the past. (The only woman I was never able to get off suffered from severe mental health issues, including depression, hallucinations, paranoia, etc.) Yes, I have been praised for being "gifted and talented" in this area, but maybe it is just a combination of really enjoying this activity, along with really knowing how my own body works. In contrast, oral sex to men causes immediate, severe pain to my head, temples, and jaw, is fraught with the hazard of accidental biting and constant gagging, rarely ends in him getting off without hard manual stimulation, seems to take forever, and also tastes awful to me if we are successful. I rarely offer this activity to my long-term, monogamous, male partner, whom I love dearly. and am wildly attracted to, and do feel bad about depriving him, but I do not how to enjoy it more, or at least not suffer so much. I wonder if a bisexual male would have the opposite experience as mine, finding oral sex with another male to be less complicated and less taxing than with a woman?
Posted by TaniaZ on January 11, 2014 at 3:00 AM · Report this
this guy I know in Spokane 105
Late to this party and not going to read all 100+ responses; but I hope somebody mentioned that learning how to give a good blow job is one of life's great pleasures. ("Let's see what happens if I do .... this" is a fun game. Too many people think all you have to do is be good-looking and put your mouth on it.)
Posted by this guy I know in Spokane on January 11, 2014 at 9:01 AM · Report this
106
@105,

That "fun game" is exactly what was so awesome about the first BJ I got from my wife-to-be (not that the rest were bad). The experimentation, taking you time, and pure fun of it kind of gets lost after a few hundred tries.

Peace
Posted by Married in MA on January 11, 2014 at 11:58 AM · Report this
undead ayn rand 107
@104: I really wonder, the act just seems more... physically challenging. I'm not sure why the rest seem to find oral sex on women so vexing. "Penis sticks out" as one poster stated, but that seems like a ridiculous oversimplification and a bizarre comparison to a woman's business.
Posted by undead ayn rand on January 11, 2014 at 1:06 PM · Report this
Still Thinking 108
Ophian @39 ftw - what was the question - ha ha.

So, as a giver of both versions - and with the caveat that the bulk of my experience is with fellatio - I come down on the side of fellatio being harder, physically. Beyond the sheer physical experience, though, there are some other considerations.

It's easier for a man to watch what you're doing to his dick, than a woman to watch what you're doing to her pussy. So fellatio can be more of a performance, and that might affect a giver who likes, or doesn't like, performing during sex.

Taste is also a factor - I'm surprised no one has mentioned it. The taste is in your face right away during cunnilingus, while there's a bit of a delay with fellatio.

I wonder how sharing the gender of the recipient affects the experience as well. As a woman giving to another woman, I can imagine how it feels, and even get a vicarious "echo" effect. As a woman giving to a man, I can't really imagine it, and have to watch for various signals.

OK, that's all for now! If I could italicize/bold for effect, I would, but I'd fear italicizing the rest of the thread, or something, right nocutename?
Posted by Still Thinking on January 12, 2014 at 1:08 AM · Report this
109
I'm late to the party but just have to say I fucking wish someone had taught us about setting boundaries in high school. You're doing a public service Dan, never forget it.
Posted by jujubee80 on January 12, 2014 at 6:16 AM · Report this
nocutename 110
@108 (Still Thinking): No worries; you want to screw up the thread orthographically, I'm your girl!

What I am surprised by most in this long discussion of the relative ease/difficulty of performing oral sex on men or women, interspersed with an argument about the quality of teenagers as sweet, considerate lovers v. enormously selfish dickheads, is how few people are honing in on the bf's attitude towards abortion and the putting-his-girlfriend-at-risk-for-one behavior when she has said she's not ready for full penetrative sex until they've both acquired both "condoms and birth control," by which I assume she means hormonal birth control that she uses, beyond the condoms he will use.

I mean, I realize that the blowjob v pussy-eating convo is much more interesting and likely not to stir someone's wrath, and we thereby avoid this one turning into the kind of "men are scum" "no, women are horrible" threads that have happened in the past, but that's this girl's--and many other teenaged girls more serious problem: that because of her deference to her boyfriend or her shyness in speaking up, or his obtuseness, or his rational mind being clouded by his horniness and the proximity of her vagina, she could easily end up pregnant, which is bad enough and emotionally traumatic enough without the following considerations:

1) Most 16-year-olds have limited access to the money for an abortion.

2) Many 16-year-olds may have limited access to the means of transportation to where the abortion can be procured--especially if they live in a state that has taken steps to ensure that abortions will be difficult to come by. Some women have to drive several hundred miles to get one.

3) Many states have parental notification and/or parental consent laws on the books, which can make it difficult for the girl depending on her parents' attitudes towards not only abortion, but either premarital or teenage sex.

4) "He disagrees strongly with abortion . . . so I would probably end up having an abortion without telling him about it". This means she wouldn't be able to get the physical, emotional, or financial support she needs from the very boy who put her in the position of needing these things in the first place (and I would guess that her resultant resentment plus any guilt or resulting depression she may--not will--feel, will probably lead to a break up anyway).

Yet she's still thinking that her looking out for herself, and sparing herself the grief of being badgered by her boyfriend when she needs to preserve her life the way she wants to live it because he was so inconsiderate or horny that he ignored the plans they had both made is (here you go, Still Thinking) "completely UNFAIR"!

Forget how sweet teenagers can be or aren't, or whether giving a blowjob is more difficult than eating pussy; this girl has (well, had, since this letter is from 2011, but the circumstances unfortunately apply to many other young women) a real problem.
More...
Posted by nocutename on January 12, 2014 at 8:58 AM · Report this
nocutename 111
I also think that a lot of teenaged sexual behavior is predicated on fears that the person won't "do it right." I ducked my way out of the first two or three real kisses that came my way because I was afraid that my kissing "technique" would reveal me to be a neophyte--which I was--and that would be soooo embarrassing I couldn't live it down. I know that one of the boys who wanted to kiss me thought I was sending him mixed signals (which I guess I was), and was hurt and confused. I wish I could find him now and explain and apologize, but alas, even Facebook or Linkedin is not good enough when a zillion people have your same name and most of them didn't also post photographs.

I was so worried about showing my inexperience that I deliberately lost my virginity to a total stranger and one that I knew I'd never see again, so I could get it out of the way, and go back to my ordinary circle of acquaintances and potential dating pool "devirginized" and my noviceness would be gone. (I realize that my attitude was probably more extreme than some of yours).

When I was 18, I had a boyfriend who rebuffed all my efforts at having piv by telling me that we didn't love each other and we were humans, not animals, that we should be able to exercise some self-control. For years I felt like I was a less evolved person, a bit bestial, base in my uncontrolled desires. (He also wouldn't go down on me, but I gave him innumerable blowjobs. At the time, however, having a fear that my vagina would be a disgusting, smelly thing--thank you, 1970s culture, with all your "Feminine Hygiene" products being advertised everywhere--I didn't mind that, nor did I feel it was inherently unfair. I'm still not a quid pro quo kind of person when it comes to sex acts.)

Anyway, I did find him on Facebook, 20+ years later, and brought up the way I used to beg him to fuck me, and his constant demurrals and he said, "I was nervous and embarrassed because I'd never had sex and was afraid I wouldn't be able to satisfy you. Believe me, if you were to ask me now, the response would be very different."
More...
Posted by nocutename on January 12, 2014 at 9:28 AM · Report this
112
Most of the women who have given me a blow job suck - literally HA!
Posted by Catonaleash on January 12, 2014 at 12:07 PM · Report this
113
@110 nocute,

NOT to make any excuses for the anti-choice sentiment of the BF, but all the more reason that the LW unequivocally enforce a "No dick near vagina" policy w/o at least one form of birth control in use. Young BF may never cross the great divide of choice, but he damn well is going to have to join the ranks of being responsible.

Peace
Posted by Married in MA on January 13, 2014 at 9:41 AM · Report this
Eudaemonic 114
@111: I also think that a lot of teenaged sexual behavior is predicated on fears that the person won't "do it right."

Yeah. I'd say that's not limited to teenagers--or to sexual behavior, either.

Anyway, I did find him on Facebook, 20+ years later, and brought up the way I used to beg him to fuck me, and his constant demurrals and he said, "I was nervous and embarrassed because I'd never had sex and was afraid I wouldn't be able to satisfy you. Believe me, if you were to ask me now, the response would be very different."

Lol. Oh come on! The story shouldn't end right there. :P
Posted by Eudaemonic on January 13, 2014 at 11:56 AM · Report this

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