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Friday, December 13, 2013

SLLOTD: Macho Drama

Posted by on Fri, Dec 13, 2013 at 1:25 PM

Originally posted on December 2, 2010

I'm a 26-year-old heterosexual male in a relationship with a 25-year-old female. I'm her first boyfriend. She's never had an orgasm that wasn't self-induced. I've asked her multiple times what I can do to try to get her off, but she doesn't really have anything to tell me. There's a lot of trial and error going on. I feel like I'm kind of flying blind. Help please?

This Question Again

My response after the jump...

If she can get herself off, TQA, then she should be able to get herself off while you assist. Let her get herself off while you watch, while you hold her, while you suck on her tits, while she sits on your face. Gradually work your way up to her getting herself off while you're inside her.

Don't make the "macho drama" mistake of viewing the orgasms she self-induces while you're there as somehow deficient or dysfunctional. The more you can relax and enjoy the orgasms she's self-inducing now—the more you can both relax and enjoy them—the sooner she'll be able to relax, enjoy, and, perhaps, transition to orgasms induced by someone else/someone else's dick.

If you want that someone else/someone else's dick to be you/yours, TQA, then don't be an impatient, insecure, macho drama queen about the way she's capable of having orgasms now.


Comments (24) RSS

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Max Solomon 1
sound, but boring, advice. how'd it work out?
Posted by Max Solomon on December 13, 2013 at 1:55 PM · Report this
Equi-age relationships disgust me, and they never work.

Posted by Danny Dimorph on December 13, 2013 at 2:17 PM · Report this
nocutename 3
I know this is old, but it's not that old; surely Dan must have known back in 2010 that some women are never going to have an orgasm with someone inside them, or while sitting on someone's face and simultaneously diddling herself (which is how I read "Let her get herself off while . . . she sits on your face"; apologies if that wasn't what he meant to suggest), let alone "transition to orgasms induced by someone else/someone else's dick."

Dan's right that TQA shouldn't get all macho-dramatic about it, but this woman may never be able to orgasm by any other touch than her own, and that should be okay, too. What TQA needs to do is try to get her off and ask if he can watch her masturbate, while keeping the pressure off or as low as possible. He should also find out if there's anything he can do while he's in close proximity to his girlfriend to assist her in her orgasm, like talking to her or touching her in other places in other ways. He should find a way to feel that he is sharing in bringing her to orgasm. She sounds like she's either not all that self-aware yet or still too shy and embarrassed to talk openly about her needs. Part of this might resolve with a bit of maturing.
Posted by nocutename on December 13, 2013 at 3:39 PM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 4
Add to the "macho drama" repertoire the concept that her orgasms aren't REAL (or not good enough) because he/his dick weren't the cause.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on December 13, 2013 at 4:09 PM · Report this
nocutename 5
@Helenka (also a Canuck): Yep. Exactly.
TQA says that he is his girlfriend's first boyfriend. She may be very uncomfortable being that explicit about her sexuality still.

The only way I'm ever going to orgasm is with my rabbit-style vibrator; there's simply no human touch that is able to move against my clit at 150 rpm while simultaneously pressing up against my clitoral tissue from the inside against the front of my vaginal wall. No dick, no tongue, no finger is going to be able to do it--and I love all those things and a heap more activities.

But I've been with a few guys who were confident enough to know that even if it wasn't their dick, tongue, or fingers, even if it wasn't their hand holding the vibrator (because I need to be face-down on my stomach to get enough focused pressure on my pelvis to do the trick), they were absolutely essential to my orgasms when I was with them. Because the thing that pushes me over the edge is my thoughts. And with their help, with their dirty words, with their obvious excitement and interest, with their well-timed spanks or kisses, my thoughts got me off. I was turned on, not only by what was buzzing against my clit, but also, perhaps more so, by what was buzzing through my mind. And that was entirely their doing.

So I always thought of those orgasms as having been "given" to me by them, and I know that much as they might have wanted to be the person whose actual fingers or tongue, let alone whose dick, was providing the physical stimulation, they regarded those orgasms as having been shared experiences. I hope that even if he never gets his girlfriend off in the way he's asking about, TQA learned to regard his participation in his girlfriend's orgasms in whatever form it took as a vital contribution.
Posted by nocutename on December 13, 2013 at 4:30 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 6
The real answer is, "who cares if she has an orgasm!"

Amirite fellas?

Posted by Urgutha Forka on December 13, 2013 at 4:46 PM · Report this
AFinch 7
@6 - I think you are onto something a little bit. Sex is best when both partners are a little selfish. He should make a good effort, but basically not skimp on just happily and vigorously getting his. Be a little selfish - it may have the counter-intuitive effect of helping her relax by taking the focus off of her and by letting her know she is making him feel good.

I think @4 is being a little harsh - conscientious guys have the mantra "she comes first" drilled into them and that being a little selfish is being a jerk. Some guys are self aware enough to really not want to be a jerk. He might just be overwhelming her with this, but not out of jerk-motives or attitudes.
Posted by AFinch on December 13, 2013 at 5:16 PM · Report this
I agree w/ Afinch. Why are people (including Dan) getting on TQA for being some sort of needy jerk? Knowing that you and your body helped (i said helped!) somebody orgasm is one of the greatest feelings on earth, and it's one that gets better the more you care for the other person. If TQA wants it so much, maybe that's because he cares about his girlfriend.
Posted by Red Paul on December 13, 2013 at 6:47 PM · Report this
Dan might have been clearer on a couple of points:

1. The old saw about only a minority of women being able to orgasm from vaginal penetration alone should have been reiterated. Direct, often intense and sustained clitoral stimulation, is 'normal' for women, so the long-term goal should be "HE participates in her reaching orgasm," rather than "his DICK participates in her reaching orgasm."

2. If she's shy, as appears to be the case, baby-steps. Maybe she's blindfolded, even, and he's not in physical contact with her, while he watches, as a good starting place. Sucking her tits or having her sit on his face might be too much too soon--even being held might be too much to start with. Working his involvement into her repertoire gradually might not only be the 'best' pathway, but it might be the ONLY pathway.
Posted by Functional Atheist on December 13, 2013 at 6:57 PM · Report this
Registered European 10
@5 interesting, this reads like a female version of the male "death grip problem", but not considered problematic.
Posted by Registered European on December 13, 2013 at 8:14 PM · Report this
Ms Cute - Do you assert that everyone for whom what you put on the table isn't sufficiently satisfying is deficient in confidence?

I basically agree with you up to that point. I'm not going to be as specific as you, but I have experienced being on both ends of the rare Climax from X alone as well as Requiring X+Y. In my case, the provider of X was clearly integral to the climax even if Y were required, and Y not being required when it wasn't was not entirely a question of skill or technique. While I never found anything unsatisfactory about providing X when Y was required, I don't recall anyone of my acquaintance who chose not to maintain a long-term X-ship once it became clear that X Alone was never going to happen being judged deficient. Now, granted, there not being mixed genders could reasonably alter the case. But the basic pattern was to follow more or less along your recommendation and Mr Savage's, see more or less how far the pair's path was capable of leaving, and then each partner decide if that were sufficiently satisfactory, with no MF in the equation should either one decide they weren't really a match.

This was actually a rare post of yours, nearly in Bradshaw (Sir William) Award territory, although not to the same extent as some of Mr Savage's recent responses.
Posted by vennominon on December 13, 2013 at 8:15 PM · Report this
nocutename 12
@10 and 11: You are both probably correct. TMI, I'm sure, Mr. Ven, and no doubt conditions that make me a difficult partner. And I'd agree, Registered European, that my conditions qualify as a female equivalent of the death grip.

I have background which I think qualifies the "death grip"-like conditions, but I fear that giving it would be a case of even more TMI. If I could arrive at orgasm more easily or with more flexibility, I would happily embrace the change, but suffice it to say that I am well aware of my limitations, that while I might wish that they didn't exist, I'm not particularly bothered by them, and that I am grateful for each and every orgasm I have, and spend my energy feeling thankful rather than resentful.

However my main point, which was that just because a partner doesn't provide physical sensations that bring the other partner to orgasm, doesn't mean that s/he doesn't help the orgasm be achieved by his/her participation, still stands and can be applicable here and in other cases.
Posted by nocutename on December 13, 2013 at 9:32 PM · Report this
@10 Yeah, probably. I find that if I use my vibrator too consistently, it can be difficult to get off from cunnilingus, etc. the first few times.

@3 Yes, thanks for making this point. I am plenty orgasmic but never with a dick alone.
Posted by wxPDX on December 13, 2013 at 9:44 PM · Report this
seandr 14
The important thing is to have fun trying.
Posted by seandr on December 13, 2013 at 11:22 PM · Report this
Ms Cute - That wasn't a TMI card; I never get that specific personally because to do so would be giving people the means to drive me away from here. If anything, I was grateful that there was a workable framework provided.
Posted by vennominon on December 14, 2013 at 3:31 AM · Report this
Sandiai 16
Posted by Sandiai on December 14, 2013 at 3:33 AM · Report this
Sandiai 17
@16 was for @14.
Posted by Sandiai on December 14, 2013 at 3:34 AM · Report this
Hmm, like @5, I can have a difficult time getting to orgasm. Though by her standards, I'm pretty easy! But my partners rarely get me off, close often, but not all the way. And amazing as my current boyfriend makes me feel whether fingering me or during cunnilingas, it doesn't always get me there. Sometimes I can't get myself there!

Perhaps I've done it the same way for too long? Perhaps my body's needs are too specific? But whatever, sex is wonderful and fun. And we're supposed to be enjoying the journey not the destination, right?
Posted by phuni44 on December 14, 2013 at 7:02 AM · Report this
nocutename 19
I hope I didn't give the impression that sex for me is a chore, just because I have to have very specific stimulation to orgasm. I agree that the journey is hecka fun and I get pretty close pretty easily.

I think this lw is approaching his girlfriend's orgasm as a task to be mastered. If they are both enjoying the sex and if she orgasms, it's fine. I'm not sure from his letter whether she's bringing herself off in their encounters together or not. If she's not, then she should be, in part to show him what she likes, but also because she should be achieving sexual satisfaction from their shared encounters.

One of the reasons I shared so much about what it takes for me is because even when Dan or other experts say things like "75% of women aren't able to orgasm through vaginal intercourse alone," it makes it sound as if all it takes is a little finger action during intercourse, or through cunnilingus.

The message, which is a good one, is that your Great and Wonderful Penis itself is often not enough. The other common message is that anyone can learn to bring his/her partner to orgasm, once s/he just properly learns what the partner does in the partner's masturbatory routine. Or that masturbatory routines themselves can be the "problem" (death grip, mattress/box spring-humping).

But I don't think that message goes far enough. For one thing, I think it turns sex into a chore or one's partner into a lesson to be studied and learned, with a failing grade assigned to and by all parties if the one never is able to bring the other all the way off. I wanted to give a specific example that in some cases the inability of one partner to bring the other to orgasm directly doesn't signify failure in any way, that for some people more is needed, and most importantly that sex together shouldn't be a series of what TQA has designated "trial and error," but a wickedly fun, joyful, perhaps deeply intimately connecting experience. If you were there in close proximity, if you were sharing the journey, I consider you to have been instrumental in my reaching the destination. If both partners consider both partners as being instrumental in reaching that destination, no matter who or what is actually imparting the physical sensations, I think a lot of people would be a lot happier.

And for the record, I am not saying and I don't believe that people shouldn't try to please their partners, that they shouldn't be invested, particularly if they love those partners, in finding new ways to bring pleasure, and that people shouldn't be open to trying new things. Using myself as an example again, nothing would make me happier than being able to come on a lover's tongue or into his hand and on his penis. Maybe someday that will happen. It's been close. I don't simply shrug my shoulders and say "don't bother trying; I'll do it myself."
Posted by nocutename on December 14, 2013 at 8:54 AM · Report this
Helenka (also a Canuck) 20
Not trying to sound harsh deliberately with my first comment, though some/many (take your pick) guys ARE like that. But it's too bad that the LW didn't mention how many previous lovers he'd had or how old/young he was when he started. It sounds as if he hasn't necessarily experimented a lot of variety either, if his gf is such an anomaly. So I'd recommend he do the stereotypically unmanly thing and get directions ... from a book. They could go shopping together and see what interests her. If that seems it might be too daunting for her to do in public, then he could buy a couple and show them to her. Or they could visit a website in total privacy. I'm a huge fan of The point is not to dwell on her lack of experience or single (only) method to reach orgasm, but to see just how much fun they can have together in trying new stuff.

When I was a virgin (a verrrrry long time ago), my best friend and I shopped often for books - a limited selection as the books veered around the obscenity laws by stating they were for enhancing sex IN marriage. Information and education are wonderful, even more so when it's in the pursuit of increased pleasure.
Posted by Helenka (also a Canuck) on December 14, 2013 at 12:16 PM · Report this
nocutename 21
Mr Ven: This is actually in reference to your posts through #s 9-22 and the discussion they engendered in an earlier SLLOTD discussion about the components making up a threesome:

I wish I was your friend in real life, not just here.
Posted by nocutename on December 14, 2013 at 12:29 PM · Report this
I agree with seandr @14,

Even when it's the same old, same old, having fun trying is the point.

When you've been together long enough, and old enough, you even get "echoes" from memories and twinges of "not today" from your body. You never know till you try!

Posted by Married in MA on December 14, 2013 at 2:26 PM · Report this
No, Cute you didn't give a bad impression, not at all. Sex is awesome in all it's forms. And being close to orgasm and feeling it all different? Maybe that makes us the awesomest! Sometimes it's enough to feel my boyfriend come, sometimes I want to come first with him inside me other times after, sometimes I want to come after he's done while he kisses my neck, squeezes my nipples and is present. It all helps me feel good.
Posted by phuni44 on December 14, 2013 at 6:45 PM · Report this
Ms Cute - I'm sure you'd be great fun to know in real life as well.

My internet connection has been fizzling out at different times four days running now, with the current best guess being that it has something to do with AT&T. If I fail to make timely responses or even disappear completely, that is why.
Posted by vennominon on December 15, 2013 at 4:51 AM · Report this

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