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Tuesday, November 12, 2013

An Incomplete Account of This Morning's Mars Hill Twit-War

Posted by on Tue, Nov 12, 2013 at 11:46 AM


Yesterday, I told you that Mars Hill Pastor Mark Driscoll was going to be answering questions on Twitter this morning. It turned out to be quite a spectacle. Driscoll answered a few sincere questions from his flock, even though his answers weren't always coherent:


Very good Twitter user Jake Dockter kept a tally of all of Driscoll's responses based on the gender of the questioner and the subject of the question. The results are just about what you figure they'd be: biased way toward men and focusing especially on "quirky" questions about pop culture or financial success. Driscoll, after all, made his fame as the hip preacher who lured people in with rock music and the glamour of prosperity before dropping the boom with his hateful homophobia and his creepy need to see women subjugated and silenced.


The best questions, though, are the ones that Pastor Mark completely ignored. After the jump, you'll find a sampling.







Only one or two of the questions from non-Mars Hill attendees were answered, including this one, with a patented Pastor Mark "zany zinger™" thrown in:


The article that Driscoll links to is an interesting one, because it says that most of the Old Testament rules people like to mock Christians over don't matter anymore, as they're not part of the new covenant made by Jesus in the New Testament. Driscoll acknowledges that the rules against homosexuality are in the old covenant, but he implies—never states outright—that the rule against homosexuality is a "moral law," like the Ten Commandments, which is why it carries over from the old covenant to the new. There's no evidence to prove this. Jesus never said anything about homosexuality, which means that Driscoll is simply asking us to trust his interpretation of which Old Testament rules still matter. The arrogance of that statement coming from a man who calls himself Christian is, simply, astonishing.

And of course, the parody account @fakedriscoll answered questions this morning, too:


But the real hero of the morning was The Stranger's own Megan Seling, who unleashed the Kraken in a very funny tirade that proved yet again why she's one of my favorite human beings. (Read up from the bottom of each individual screenshot.)

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I'm sure some of you don't think this exercise was helpful, or even consider it to be hurtful to the anti-Mars Hill cause. Respectfully, you're wrong. Mischief-making is one of the most important things a citizen can do to voice their displeasure toward something they consider to be wrong. This country was founded by mischief-makers. Mars Hill is a big, powerful force in Seattle, and many people consider them to be a regressive, harmful influence on the citywide conversation. All an ordinary person has is their voice, and a whole lot of ordinary people decided to use their voices today, to speak out against something that they believe to be wrong. The fact that they did, and that their voices were heard, is something to be celebrated.

 

Comments (49) RSS

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1
I love you Megan Seling. "Sorry, that last one wasn't in the form of the question. FUCK YOU?"

Seconded. F-you, @PastorMark. Love, Kelly O
Posted by Kelly O on November 12, 2013 at 11:54 AM · Report this
very bad homo 2
Megan Seling rocks so hard.
Posted by very bad homo on November 12, 2013 at 12:01 PM · Report this
stephaniedrury 3
Go Megan. Signed, @fakedriscoll
Posted by stephaniedrury http://stuffchristianculturelikes.com on November 12, 2013 at 12:01 PM · Report this
4
Nothing ordinary about Megan Seling. Plenty to be celebrated, certainly. Keep up the great work/mischief.

I'm proud to be a Stranger reader!

Posted by Brooklyn Reader on November 12, 2013 at 12:03 PM · Report this
Dougsf 5
That was impressive. Someone thank Megan as soon as she's done high-fiving.
Posted by Dougsf on November 12, 2013 at 12:06 PM · Report this
6
Well done Megan!
Posted by cracked on November 12, 2013 at 12:15 PM · Report this
7
Brava! The FMK and lady masturbation tweets were particularly strong.
Posted by California on November 12, 2013 at 12:16 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 8
Fuck Judas
Marry John the Baptist
Kill Peter
Posted by Urgutha Forka on November 12, 2013 at 12:34 PM · Report this
Dougsf 9
@8 I dunno man; didn't John, like, invent celibacy?
Posted by Dougsf on November 12, 2013 at 12:44 PM · Report this
10
"Driscoll is simply asking us to trust his interpretation of which Old Testament rules still matter. The arrogance of that statement coming from a man who calls himself Christian is, simply, astonishing."

Really? You find this astonishing? I find it typical.
Posted by Irving on November 12, 2013 at 12:45 PM · Report this
kellyllek 11
he is suck a woman hating ass-hole. every single hipster knob i know who attends this church are arrogant douche-bags. fuck you people.
Posted by kellyllek http://www.youtube.com/user/pike024 on November 12, 2013 at 12:47 PM · Report this
12
At the risk of sounding like a misogynist, I kind of have a huge crush on Megan Seling now.
Posted by JesseMT on November 12, 2013 at 12:49 PM · Report this
13
This was all very funny and all, but why do you call it a "spectacle", Stranger?
Posted by peterallenclark on November 12, 2013 at 1:03 PM · Report this
14
@12 At the risk of sounding heterosexual, I have a huge crush on Megan, too.
Posted by Christopher Frizzelle on November 12, 2013 at 1:03 PM · Report this
kylembelltown 15
Megan for mayor!!!
Posted by kylembelltown on November 12, 2013 at 1:04 PM · Report this
elizabethrawlings 16
Megan Seling, I <3 you. Thanks for not only giving that asshat a good dose of comeuppance, but for also pointing out that there are churches that won't fuck with people's heads/shun them if they leave/ spiritually abuse.
Posted by elizabethrawlings http://feetinarmsout.wordpress.com on November 12, 2013 at 1:07 PM · Report this
17
I currently have a very earnest, very young (20 y) Christian women rooming with us. She described a misogynistic experience at Mars Hill that drove her to another church. She was acting as a deacon in the Church and when she asked to be paid as some of the male deacons were (she was volunteering and works part time) she was advised that she should get married instead and then might be worthy of pay and more respect. Quite a place that Pastor Driscoll runs.
Posted by dbgill56 on November 12, 2013 at 1:09 PM · Report this
18
I love this and Megan so much for this. I used to be a member of MH and it's the worst place in the world, it's just terrible.
Posted by Nerdista on November 12, 2013 at 1:14 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 19
@9,
To be honest, I really wouldn't want to fuck any of them. But rules is rules.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on November 12, 2013 at 1:15 PM · Report this
20
Does this crazy church actually "recruit" normal people, or do most of it's batshit crazies come from a christianize background (wants to be a hipster and can't quit the hell stories)? That Driscoll character is a classic narcissist, or potential sociopath…either way, bad dingle.
Posted by shotsix on November 12, 2013 at 1:30 PM · Report this
21
Megan Seling is an amazing spectacular hero! I have a girl crush. Does that make me an honorary lesbian? Those were the best tweets ever. MUAH!!
Posted by SeattleKim on November 12, 2013 at 1:37 PM · Report this
Fnarf 22
Fred Clark had a great piece up last week on why foreign evangelicals, even extremely conservative foreign evangelicals, find American evangelicals so baffling, so opposed to the core values of Christianity. It's because they aren't defined by those values; they are defined by political tribalism. Your average Australian or Danish conservative evangelical finds that to be...crazy. Driscoll is obviously concerned with one thing only, and it's not the words of Jesus -- it's the power of Driscoll. He's an enemy of Christ.
Posted by Fnarf http://www.facebook.com/fnarf on November 12, 2013 at 1:38 PM · Report this
Keister Button 23
I get what Jake Dockter is trying to do keeping a spreadsheet tally, but wouldn't a sheet of # of women, # of men, # of questions asked per person, # of questions ignored be more telling? I did not see many questions from women, apart from @mseling, and didn't see many women asking questions. I thought the earnest Q and A entries were white bro-fests. @HankChill had the best questions, glad to see he got an answer.

Megan asked a great question Mars Hill people won't answer though: Why choose a church suspected of spiritual abuse, with a narcissistic misogynistic egomaniac leader? Is it because there are more people who "look like you" (age, socioeconomic status, skin tone, clothes, subcultural identifiers)? Is it the music? Is it unhip to go to an affirming, open church with a diversity of ages, skin tones, socioeconomic statuses?
Posted by Keister Button on November 12, 2013 at 1:39 PM · Report this
Lissa 24
I have friends who are members. They all come from the club or music scene, and two of them used to be big in the tweeker world. These men feel like they've found stability and an environment that helps them to be good men and fathers.
::Shrug:: I think they could do it on their own, but they don't.
One of them is an ex of mine ( I did like me bouncer back in the day) and when he starts spouting homophobic or sexist shit, I take him to the woodshed. Often he'll listen.
Posted by Lissa on November 12, 2013 at 1:57 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 25
@20,

Slog/The Stranger has indicated in the past that at least one of Mars Hill's recruitment tactics is to seek out lonely-looking newcomers at bars and coffee shops. It's also pretty clear, I think, that the church pretty much throws a bunch of new best friends at new members.

They find socially isolated people, give them a ton of new friends, and make all of those friendships contingent on towing the line, never speaking up, and certainly *never* leaving the church. Say anything against the church leadership, and you're blackballed permanently.

So, in other words, it's just like any other cult, sans suicide pact.
Posted by keshmeshi on November 12, 2013 at 2:06 PM · Report this
Hernandez 26
@24 If your ex is regularly spouting homophobic and sexist shit since becoming a member, is Mars Hill actually helping him be a "good man?" Doesn't sound like it. Sounds like you are the one helping him to be a better man by calling him out on it, though.
Posted by Hernandez http://hernandezlist.blogspot.com on November 12, 2013 at 2:11 PM · Report this
rob! 27
GODDAMMIT. Will you please pay Megan and her hubby whatever it takes to keep them in Seattle. (That's not a question.)
Posted by rob! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBdUceCL5U on November 12, 2013 at 2:35 PM · Report this
fletc3her 28
Someday I will have to have somebody explain to me why any of this is relevant to anything.
Posted by fletc3her on November 12, 2013 at 2:40 PM · Report this
scary tyler moore 29
you got it, keister button. people will join a group of any kind if the members of said group look just like them. dinosaur brains.
Posted by scary tyler moore http://pushymcshove.blogspot.com/ on November 12, 2013 at 2:42 PM · Report this
30
@25 - http://www.theonion.com/articles/recentl…

Recently Born-Again Christian Finally Has Social Life (The Onion)

"GASTONIA, SC–Eight months ago, Larry Dunne was alone. He didn't have a friend in the world. But all that changed with his baptism at the New Hearts Fundamentalist Church. Ever since becoming a born-again Christian, Dunne has a friend through Jesus. "Let's see, there's Richard and Janet and Craig," said Dunne, a data technician at Quill Paper Distribution. "Oh, and Brent, too. He stands next to me in the choir. Now that I'm saved, I've got a whole bunch of friends."
Posted by Jude Fawley on November 12, 2013 at 2:43 PM · Report this
SchmuckyTheCat 31
@26, Lissa and I share many common friends but we've only met once or twice. Reading her post gives you the answer: "::Shrug:: I think they could do it on their own, but they don't." I agree, but MH is a decent crutch.

At least with one MH couple, once he got married it was the wife's decision that they'd be churchgoers, and knowing her it was going to be fundie. MH being cool for aging hipsters Probably keeps him. Neither of them is particularly critical in thinking about theology, so there they are.
Posted by SchmuckyTheCat on November 12, 2013 at 2:44 PM · Report this
Lissa 32
@26: I wouldn't say he does it regularly. The only time I had to smack him for homophobia was early in his time there and he was complaining about the Pride parade. This was after it had moved downtown and I asked him since when 4th avenue was so important to him, ( and if it was why wasn't he complaining about Seafair clogging up the same route?)and reminded him of the many many MANY Pride parades he had enjoyed when he lived on the Hill and the many gay people he had known and loved. I knew the shit he was talking wasn't coming from him, and our chat kind of snapped him back to reality.
Posted by Lissa on November 12, 2013 at 3:14 PM · Report this
Cascadian Bacon 33
So why isn't Megan taking her battle for woman's rights up with the iman at the local Mosque?
Posted by Cascadian Bacon on November 12, 2013 at 3:23 PM · Report this
rob! 34
@33: Iman. Imam.
Posted by rob! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBdUceCL5U on November 12, 2013 at 3:38 PM · Report this
Lissa 35
@33: Which Iman has gone on twitter to do an AMA? And what Seattle area mosque has been opening branches all over the Puget Sound region? Can you point me to any recent articles in which local Muslim leaders have called foul when a real estate deal fell through proclaiming it to be unfair because Allah meant that property for them?
Posted by Lissa on November 12, 2013 at 3:54 PM · Report this
Cascadian Bacon 36
@34

Good catch rob!

I am not up on my spelling of hateful darkgae religious figures.
Posted by Cascadian Bacon on November 12, 2013 at 3:55 PM · Report this
Lissa 37
Crap! :: imam::
I hate my phone
Posted by Lissa on November 12, 2013 at 3:57 PM · Report this
Lissa 38
@36: Oh they're all rooted in the dark ages, except Scientology I suppose which is spaaaaaaace aaaaaaage, and they all can be, and have been, hateful in varying degrees. Don't be disingenuous. And answer my question: what imam has done an AMA on Twitter?
Posted by Lissa on November 12, 2013 at 4:08 PM · Report this
39
@36 Please, you're embarrassing yourself.
Posted by Alina Misra on November 12, 2013 at 4:31 PM · Report this
bigg 40
Should I feel honored that he answered one of my questions? His followers have driven my Klout score through the roof retweeting his answer.

Me: @PastorMark do you really think you're making your religion seem inviting & reality-based? Should it be inviting & reality based? #AskPM

Him: I'm a preacher not a salesman. I can always grow as a messenger, but can never change the message.

It was a throwaway question - he ignored all the others that I asked.
Posted by bigg http://biggblah.blogspot.com/ on November 12, 2013 at 4:57 PM · Report this
41
Dang, wish I'd know this was happening, I would've given him shit too
Posted by SeattleCattle2 on November 12, 2013 at 5:01 PM · Report this
Hernandez 42
@31/32 - yeah, okay I do understand the phenomenon you're describing. I've come across it with people in my own life, not with Mars Hill but through some kind of church. You just hope they someday drop the crutch.
Posted by Hernandez http://hernandezlist.blogspot.com on November 12, 2013 at 5:01 PM · Report this
43
Independent of the pastor's politics, he seems to deal out a level of snark similar to Mr. Savages and is being dealt a measure of abuse that seems similar in tone and vehemence to that dealt out to Mr. Savage by hateful people and by those who disagree with him.

Not saying that there's nothing to complain about with respect to Mars Hill, wherever that is, or this pastor, whoever he is, but his snark isn't it.

In related news, who the #@$% is Mark Driscoll and what the #@$% is Mars Hill? Is it that church that's whining that someone else closed a perfectly above-board multi-year deal to buy the land that they wanted to buy?
Posted by DRF on November 12, 2013 at 5:58 PM · Report this
gttrgst 44
Dear Megan, please start a religion.
Posted by gttrgst on November 12, 2013 at 6:24 PM · Report this
45
Does anyone know if Mark Driscoll is really building a mega-mansion for himself in Issaquah (under the name of a revocable trust perhaps)?
Inquiring minds want to know.
Posted by Anono on November 13, 2013 at 1:10 AM · Report this
Knat 46
This was just the sort of thing I hoped for when I saw the previous post about this. Thanks for sharing the highlights!

And I must add to the pile of appreciation flowing toward Megan*. Well done.

*Yes, appreciation flows in pile form. Don't bother looking it up, it's true.
Posted by Knat on November 13, 2013 at 3:12 AM · Report this
Pridge Wessea 47
Megan ftw. Well played.
Posted by Pridge Wessea on November 13, 2013 at 12:47 PM · Report this
48
Megan Seling---at the risk of sounding like an arrogant, out-of-touch, unconsciously sexist, conservative frat boy---I have to just say that you are one fucking brilliant, sexy, gorgeous, smart, funny, luscious babe.

Thanks for being out there and in the face of this dickhead, Mark What's His Name.

And...are you single and into men?
Posted by Pissed in the 36th! on November 14, 2013 at 1:40 PM · Report this
kehaynes 49
Holy Cow! Does anyone else smell Jim Jones's reincarnated, black, evil soul?
Posted by kehaynes on December 6, 2013 at 4:12 PM · Report this

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