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Wednesday, October 16, 2013

What Do Republican Commenters Think of the Shutdown Deal?

Posted by on Wed, Oct 16, 2013 at 12:25 PM

Man oh man do Republican commenters hate the Senate's shutdown deal. Here's a sampling of comments from the National Review story about the deal:

McConnell and Boehner are finished as Leaders!
McConnell may not return at all and Boehner will be replaced by a leader not an establishment pimp!!

Cruz September 19: "I will do everything necessary and anything possible to defund Obamacare."
Cruz October 16: paraphrasing Meatloaf "I'll do anything to defund, but I won't do that!"

Maybe I can understand why they don't want to hit the debt ceiling, but why on earth do we have to cave on the shutdown at the same time? Couldn't we just pass a clean debt CR and continue the shutdown?

Can't think of a more disgraceful surrender. Shame on Boehner, McConnell, and all other RINO traitors. What the hell was this all for?

Any deal with Harry Reid is a deal with the devil. Shame on you, McConnell.

Shut it down again in January !! Yessss!!!!!!

And the National Review is basically the presentable Republican opinion site. Below are some comments from a story on Glenn Beck's Huffington Post rip-off The Blaze about Ted Cruz saying he won't block the deal. The baseline feeling among the commenters is that America is dead. It only gets worse from there:

My “conspiracy” theory is, Cruz is a paid Obama’s operator….. wait, before bashing me, allow me to explain: The last negotiation of debt ceiling was painful for Obama, hence he vowed not to do it again. So, Cruz task was to lure GOP to tie the Obamacare (a fight that GOP tried 40x and failed) to the gov. shutdown and eventually debt ceiling. Hence give more pressure to GOP and leverage for Obama. Now, Obama (will) get his debt ceiling increase without even need to give anything to GOP!

There goes the Country…

2014 herr troll…. 2014.. obamacare is a lie and was passed on the basis that it is a lie using Un-American tactic, voter fraud, illegally seated putzes like franken, and the abject disregard for the will of the people. 2014 is the first chance to get at 1/3of the Senate that was shielded form the wrath of the people… You will lose..

a sinking ship……this today…..then immigration…..then the renaming of the USA…

Time for red state secession. Let the blue welfare states have Obama and his Democrat friends.

Do you get the feeling like this whole government shutdown was a ploy by the progressives in both parties to isolate and destroy the Tea Party…..They knew it was going to fail and they knew the Tea Party would be blamed

At this point only God can save us since we as a country have failed. The only path by man I see available would be if the Supreme Court stepped up to do its job and ruled the IRS had to be shut down, the President impeached for overreach of power in altering legislation from the Oval office, Congress in contempt for failing to uphold its duties of budget approval and violated order through closed session back door workings and not contesting executive overreach along with identifying numerous conflicts of interest, and demanded full light on the Benghazi, IRS, NSA, AP, F&F, and Voter Intimidation scandals that ZERO people have been held accountable for. If we can’t get the Supreme Court to act – well there isn’t any other level of Gov. Left. The Executive is acting in full dictatorship mode, the Legislative in full “ruling class/peasant-surf” mode, and the Judicial (A.G Justice Department) in complete National Police mode. With the Supreme Court already legislating from the bench (altering the ACA to a “Tax” when every author of the bill insisted it wasn’t meant to be a tax but a fine/cost) figure the odds we can count on them for any amount of protection or justice.
You may now write the final chapter of America’s great experiment with Freedom. Experiment over. Stay tuned for the required revolution required to overthrow corrupt power (historically that requires a large body count).


Comments (76) RSS

Oldest First Unregistered On Registered On Add a comment
It's like looking at Slog comments in a mirror. Right and left are flipped but the image is pretty much the same.
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 12:38 PM · Report this
Big Matt G 2
RE: Red State Secession: Any of you f-ers want out, you, personally can get the f*ck out. Take your children and guns. Leave the land.
Posted by Big Matt G on October 16, 2013 at 12:41 PM · Report this
I missed the Slog commenters calling for armed revolution.
Posted by Marrena on October 16, 2013 at 12:44 PM · Report this
JonnoN 4
@1 ummmm ok..
Posted by JonnoN on October 16, 2013 at 12:44 PM · Report this
@4, Look at what @2 is saying. It's pretty much "America, love it or leave it."
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 12:47 PM · Report this
Well, at least some of them are actually acknowledging that they LOST the last election, they've LOST on the 41 votes to defund ACA, they've LOST the hearts and minds of the American electorate (not that they ever really had their hearts and minds in the first place), and that they've LOST whatever ideological "debate" they think they were engaged in the past four years.

Admitting to your mistakes/failings/abuses is the first step to recovery, so perhaps there's hope for some of these folks after all...
Posted by COMTE on October 16, 2013 at 12:48 PM · Report this
Yum, I love cherries!
Posted by NancyBalls on October 16, 2013 at 12:51 PM · Report this
@6 you're too kind. They will go home and get even more revved up. Wait until the 2014 primaries.
Posted by wl on October 16, 2013 at 12:51 PM · Report this

I would sincerely LOVE to see some of these Red States secede, just so they'd get to experience a heavy head-smack of reality when they finally come to understand just which states are "welfare states" and which ones aren't.
Posted by COMTE on October 16, 2013 at 12:52 PM · Report this
Big Matt G 10
@5) I guess I was aiming more towards: "America, don't act to distroy it out of racism/end times thinking/grins-n-giggles or leave it." but that doesn't fit as well on a bumper sticker...
Posted by Big Matt G on October 16, 2013 at 12:52 PM · Report this
@2 They can have the land, too, for all I care. With fences, checkpoints and Customs and immigration control all around. When we stop sapping our federal budget to support those buggers, they'll all be trying to get out to where they can get back on the U.S. federal teat. Those states, for the most part, haven't been self-supporting in decades. No farm price supports, no crop insurance, no disaster relief and they can compete on an even footing on the world market with Central and South America, if they can even get their crops to market.
Posted by Brooklyn Reader on October 16, 2013 at 12:53 PM · Report this
fletc3her 12
All the left is "winning" in the status quo for a couple months. Sequestration is still in place. The budget is till being cut by vast amounts.

I think the viewpoint which says that maintaining the status quo of September through January is the end of this country is qualitatively different from the viewpoint which says that engaging in the novel fiscal adventure represented by ending the debt ceiling is pretty scary.

But hey, everything is the same on both sides so who cares, right?
Posted by fletc3her on October 16, 2013 at 12:54 PM · Report this
@3 Yes, you're right. Slog commentators haven't called for armed revolution, but Goldy once hinted that it would be ironic if someone assassinated conservative supreme court justices. A lot of crazy shit has gone on here over the years. The far right and left sort of meet around the other side.
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 12:58 PM · Report this
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 14
1, nothing like a good False Equivalency to get the day going, hey?

OK, please find all those 'damn librul' posts where they advocate the destruction of America.
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on October 16, 2013 at 1:03 PM · Report this

They can get revved up all they want, but they're losing support from all sides, and this government shutdown debacle has hurt them more than helped. If they continue to insist on a "my way or the highway" approach to governance, while simultaneously remaining a minority wing of an increasingly minority party, they're going to find themselves even more marginalized, particularly when so many of their platform agendas: repealing ACA, anti-marriage equality, immigration reform, etc., etc., will have been more-or-less taken off the table by the 2014 elections.
Posted by COMTE on October 16, 2013 at 1:03 PM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 16
@13- So it's all equal because sometimes someone on slog said something that gets said daily by hundreds on popular right wing sites?

@12- Yep. Nothing is really being won, we're just losing a little less than before.
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings on October 16, 2013 at 1:05 PM · Report this

Ha ha, I love it.

@1, "both sides are the same."

I've been seeing a lot of Republicans saying that now that they've completely fucked everything up.

It's practically become an admission of guilt.
Posted by GermanSausage on October 16, 2013 at 1:07 PM · Report this
@David from Chicago,
You are right that far left and far right wacko's are pretty similar when it comes down to it. The big difference is that the left doesn't elect those wacko's. The people calling for impeachment, secession and dissolution of the union are the people controlling the Republican party. The ones on the left calling for things like that are anarchists in a parade. Are you so disconnected from reality that you can't see the difference?
Posted by Root on October 16, 2013 at 1:09 PM · Report this
Dr. Z 19
Glad to see a deal to break this ridiculous impasse, but I do miss the days when we were all just "Americans" without the need for the Red or Blue prefix. That's all.
Posted by Dr. Z on October 16, 2013 at 1:13 PM · Report this
May i just say, "Bwah ha ha ha!"

Wingnut tears, delish!
Posted by judybrowni on October 16, 2013 at 1:16 PM · Report this
Fnarf 21
The red states ARE the welfare states. The Old Confederacy gets far more federal largesse than they pay in taxes, while states like New York, California, and New Jersey foot the bill and get 60-70 cents on the dollar. Tell me more about this secession plan of yours.

Now let's get busy and take the House of Representatives. Dave Reichert, I'm looking at you (or whomever runs in your stead). You're toast. Sensible swing districts, unlike the kooks in the Deep South, aren't having any of that fucking Dixie tea your buddies are serving up.
Posted by Fnarf on October 16, 2013 at 1:19 PM · Report this
@18 I'm not saying there is no difference in the politics or results, and I'm a reliable Democratic voter. My point is that the comments on those sites and SLOG are eerily similar.
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 1:21 PM · Report this
@21, "I'm a reliable democratic voter..."

Yeah, they all say that too.
Posted by GermanSausage on October 16, 2013 at 1:25 PM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 24
I really feel for them. They so totally lost from reality. They only feel hate. Losers.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on October 16, 2013 at 1:26 PM · Report this
@16 The equivalencies aren't that both the far left and far right seek equally violent change. They don't. The right is dangerously violent.

It's their often equally out of touch with reality and use equally as hysterical rhetoric and both rely on emotional appeals rather than logic.

Do you know how many far left SLOGgers have repeatedly screamed that


You shouldn't have to look too hard.

Hell. A significant portion of SLOG actually repeatedly cry's there's "no difference between democrats and republicans!" it's "Pepsi and Coke, man!"

...and then we see shit like the ACA, the repeal of DADT and on and on as irrefutable proof to the contrary there are serious differences.

And let's not forget The Stranger is endorsing a candidate popular on SLOG who truly believes total nonsense like Microsoft and Amazon can be "nationalized." That's some 'Climate Change Denial' level delusion right there. Even though she is marginally better than her opponent, few here (except Fnarf) have called her out on that bullshit.

It's hysterical bullshit like that is a great deal the same between the two extremes. Sure, with the far left I don't have to worry about being shot. Just annoyed to death with stupidity.
Posted by tkc on October 16, 2013 at 1:28 PM · Report this
@23 Who says that?
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 1:33 PM · Report this
pfffter 27
Couldn't have happened to a bigger bunch of complete assholes. Hahahahahaha!
Posted by pfffter on October 16, 2013 at 1:35 PM · Report this
Max Solomon 28
oh schadenfreude, i've missed you.
Posted by Max Solomon on October 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM · Report this
Knat 29
@6: ...they've LOST the hearts and minds of the American electorate (not that they ever really had their hearts and minds in the first place)...

The Tea Party has never won any minds in the American electorate. Hearts, maybe. But there's a reason teabaggers are referred to as the "know-nothing party".
Posted by Knat on October 16, 2013 at 1:37 PM · Report this
CodyBolt 30
OH The tears of unfathomable sadness YUMMY! YUMMY you guys!
Posted by CodyBolt on October 16, 2013 at 1:39 PM · Report this
What a colossal Tea Party defeat. I was in danger of running out of popcorn.

This is what happens when rookie politicians play rookie politics.

Welcome to the NFL.
Posted by CPN on October 16, 2013 at 1:42 PM · Report this
Do you get the feeling like this whole government shutdown was a ploy by the progressives in both parties to isolate and destroy the Tea Party…..They knew it was going to fail and they knew the Tea Party would be blamed

This is my FAVORITE. Because it's true.

If by "ploy" he means "give the lunatics on the right enough rope to hang themselves with their own incompetence."
Posted by tkc on October 16, 2013 at 1:44 PM · Report this
@26, Republican shitposters.
Posted by GermanSausage on October 16, 2013 at 1:46 PM · Report this
@33 Sometimes you need to take things at face value, friend.
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 1:48 PM · Report this
Fnarf 35
David from Chicago: here's the problem with your bogus equivalency: you're saying that the Democrats have a plate with a hamburger on it, and the Republicans have a plate with a big wet turd on it, but it's the same, because both sides are saying the other's recipe is distasteful.

Recall just a few days ago when the 2008 Republican nominee for VP and the 2016 Republican nominee for President stood with a crowd of yahoos waving Confederate flags and applauded while speakers called on Obama to "put the Quran down" and "come out with your hands up". I'm sure you have plenty of comparable examples from, say, Joe Biden and Hillary Clinton? No? You're lying, then.

I don't believe you're a "reliable Democratic voter", but I do believe you and everything you believe in is swirling away down the toilet and every decent American is laughing at you and yours. Some of us are a little sorry that the Republicans turned into a pile of feces, but we'll get over it.
Posted by Fnarf on October 16, 2013 at 1:50 PM · Report this
@35 Wow. I got scolded by Fnarf for being someone I'm not. Great Slog day for me. I didn't say any of those things. My point is simply that Slog comments and those in the posting sound pretty darn similar. Read @25 and pull your head out of your ass.
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 1:56 PM · Report this
emma's bee 37
@36: at best, by your own admission, you're a concen troll. You are aware that still means you live under a bridge, right?
Posted by emma's bee on October 16, 2013 at 2:04 PM · Report this
@36, So your point is that this post is reflective of cherry picked responses which could be gleaned from any site with political commentary from internet users?
Posted by Spike1382 on October 16, 2013 at 2:09 PM · Report this
@37, do you mean "concern troll"? I had to look it up. Go look at my commenting history and decide for yourself if I'm whatever you think I am. I've been accused of being a Republican here before. It is actually possible to be wary of raising the minimum wage and also be a Democrat because of support in healthcare reform, marriage equality, etc. Slog can be a great place to have interesting conversations and hear different points of view. It can also be an annoying echo chamber. Today I'm afraid that it's a bit of an echo chamber.
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 2:18 PM · Report this
@36 I said the far right and far left are very similar in the use of emotion in rhetoric and generally not very well grounded in practical reality.

But in terms of policy main stream Democrats and what's left of of main stream Republicans couldn't be more different. The Republican party has gone so far right their basically functionally insane and have almost no meat and potato moderates left.

In terms of world view (and understanding of what works as opposed to what "should" work, darn it, if everybody just thought exactly the same) you have clear differences between right and left.

At the fringes (like Libertarians on the right and Anarchists or Marxists on the left) though they are very similar. In terms silly bullshit that has no foundation in reality. They are less political schools of thought and more like different groups of Trekkies who are over invested in competing fantasies.

Though the chicks on the far left are indisputably way hotter.
Posted by tkc on October 16, 2013 at 2:18 PM · Report this
oops "they're basically"
Posted by tkc on October 16, 2013 at 2:19 PM · Report this
@38 No, my point is that Slog comments have a similar tone to those in this posting. That's all. @25 makes the point better than I.
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 2:20 PM · Report this
@40 I agree. It's about tone and emotion, not substance. Not sure I agree about the chicks. Southern Baptists really take care of themselves as they age.
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 2:23 PM · Report this
Urgutha Forka 44
They're all bark and no bite.

Do something about it teabaggers. I dare you.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on October 16, 2013 at 2:23 PM · Report this
Will in Seattle 45
@2 ftw.

Sooner we stop subsidizing the inefficient Red State Komrades with Blue State taxes the better!
Posted by Will in Seattle on October 16, 2013 at 2:29 PM · Report this
Big Matt G 46
@44) I'm just tired of the diaper-baby Teabaggers threatening to secede if they don't get their way. I'm to the point that I feel it wouldn't be such a great loss if they all up and moved to a nation that better suited their polital temperments (Somalia comes to mind). Put another way, Get raptured already!
Posted by Big Matt G on October 16, 2013 at 2:32 PM · Report this
Big Matt G 47
@45) Thanks, Will! Right back atcha!
Posted by Big Matt G on October 16, 2013 at 2:33 PM · Report this
@18 and @25, apostrophes exist to denote possession, not plurals. Please take a note.
Posted by grammar nazis are our last, best hope on October 16, 2013 at 2:40 PM · Report this
Hey, conservatives: America, love it or leave it!

Seeing as they disagree with the rules of democracy (even when they've changed those rules in their own favor so many times in the past decade), I think it's time for the Beckheads and the Tea Baggers to take their own advice and move to - I don't know - Guatemala?
Posted by Centrists Rule the World today on October 16, 2013 at 2:46 PM · Report this
AFinch 50
No worries - they're clearly out of their minds - poorly informed and badly confused - but soon enough they'll either die or toddle off to the memory care facility...fortunately for them, medicare will be there to at least help cover their costs.
Posted by AFinch on October 16, 2013 at 3:13 PM · Report this

@46 49

See, real Americans who actually think this place is pretty great feel that way about you. If you hate America and our political process so badly, move to some socialist nation which hates families and faith as much as your despicable ilk. It would suit your temperament better and save decent Americans your ill informed ibfantile world views.

Posted by Seattleblues on October 16, 2013 at 3:48 PM · Report this
seatackled 52
Aww, how cute. Seattleblues thinks he's actually a real American.
Posted by seatackled on October 16, 2013 at 3:55 PM · Report this
@51--I rather love our country and our political process. This is why I despise a party that does it best to shut down the government and wreck the economy in protest of a law that was proposed by the executive branch, passed by the legislative, and upheld by the judicial. mean--how much more validation does a law need? But instead of respecting the process, the Republicans have been throwing a tantrum because they don't like the outcome. In my view, they are the ones who hate America and the political process.
Posted by Clayton on October 16, 2013 at 3:59 PM · Report this
@51, real Americans don't try to shut it down.
Posted by GermanSausage on October 16, 2013 at 4:10 PM · Report this
Posted by Headlikeahole on October 16, 2013 at 4:45 PM · Report this
thelyamhound 56
@51 - Who hates families and faith? I'm married; my wife and I both get along with our respective in-laws, and value our own extended familial ties; and we're both practicing Nichiren Buddhists.

The majority of voters in the nation favored Obama in this last election; the majority of Washington voters favored extending civic recognition of marriage to same-sex couples and the decriminalization of marijuana. I'm not sure on what basis we, and not you, are currently being accused of "hating America and our political process".

Perhaps you could clear that up for me. Please be specific.
Posted by thelyamhound on October 16, 2013 at 4:49 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 57
@ 51, that's weird. Real Americans are liberals, as this latest episode from your party proved beyond doubt. How can we hate ourselves?
Posted by Matt from Denver on October 16, 2013 at 4:52 PM · Report this
thelyamhound 58
@51 - Do you not know that you create the conflict that surrounds you yourself? Whatever sort of person you seem to be, on the whole, you seem to be at least literate enough to write coherent sentences and, if you're to be believed, maintain gainful employment and marry a legally competent human being and make babies. That should be enough self-awareness to understand that when you open with berating, closed-minded comments, you will receive similar treatment in return.

I mean . . . Why are you here? If you wish to teach or impart, mightn't you gain something from striking a more, let's say, Socratic tone, as though you were actually here for an exchange of ideas? It seems to me that even if you were posting here solely on the chance that a religious conservative might stumble into these dangerous leftist waters and might need a life preserver, I'd imagine you'd want that poor soul to see you as a civilized and civilizing influence, rather than an unrepentant cad who routinely shits on strangers' rugs.
Posted by thelyamhound on October 16, 2013 at 5:15 PM · Report this
Fnarf 59
@38, you're still full of it. The kinds of comments tkc points to are rare or imaginary, and they always get blasted by other commenters, and they are not very much like these National Review comments at all.
Posted by Fnarf on October 16, 2013 at 5:26 PM · Report this
Oh damn I thought she was in the kitchen fixing me a sandwich. Really Seattleblues honey shirking your wifely responsibilities. Shame on you.

Don't worry folks we'll discuss this with our pastor, she's a good Christian woman, just having difficulty with one of the two Commandments Jesus noted as the most important ones. She just can't wrap her simple mind around it.

Then again she does cling fiercely to a lot of self hatred.
Posted by Machiavelli was framed on October 16, 2013 at 5:31 PM · Report this
keshmeshi 61

SB is clearly full of self-loathing. There's your answer.
Posted by keshmeshi on October 16, 2013 at 5:46 PM · Report this
Pridge Wessea 62
@57, 61 - And very much into projection too.
Posted by Pridge Wessea on October 16, 2013 at 6:03 PM · Report this
venomlash 63
@51: I love how you tout our political process right after your side just took the entire world economy hostage in order to suppress a law that was passed by majorities of both duly elected legislative houses, signed by the duly elected president, and upheld by the highest court in the land.
Posted by venomlash on October 16, 2013 at 6:16 PM · Report this
@59 You sound like Ted Cruz right now. Suck on it.
Posted by David from Chicago on October 16, 2013 at 7:02 PM · Report this
lolorhone 65
@30: You beat me to it, but this is for everybody:…
Posted by lolorhone on October 17, 2013 at 3:42 AM · Report this
I'd play a tiny violin for all these idiots, but I'm not sure they'd understand why.
Posted by treehugger on October 17, 2013 at 8:34 AM · Report this
@51: Or else what? You're going to pick up some barriers and dump them in my lawn?
Posted by treehugger on October 17, 2013 at 8:40 AM · Report this

Why would liberals/progressives have to leave the US? Our President is a Democrat. The Senate is run by Democrats. ACA is the law. DADT has been repealed. Proposition 8 was overturned by the Supreme Court.

Why don't you leave?
Posted by Patricia Kayden on October 17, 2013 at 9:05 AM · Report this
@59 Rare? Imaginary?

You have that delirian guy. Especially in this gem:…

Or Anon1256. Not to mention poor old Srg. Doom. To name a few off the top of my head. All regular - if not compulsive - contributors who say bullshit like this all the time. Or, hell, as much as I love him, THE king of the off-the-cuff hyperbolic bullshiters Charles Mudede.

Fnarf, I like you but the only thing rare or imaginary is your Cliff Claven-like expertise on every subject under the sun.

You know as well as I this place is stuffed to the god damned zippers with far left-wing kooks who, while well meaning, say crazy fucking shit half the time. They just happen to be on our team.

And if the endorsement of Kshama Sawant's (as much as I like her stand on the minimum wage) delusional belief in nationalizing Amazon isn't a symptom of this kind of rhetorical silliness I don't know what is.

Posted by tkc on October 17, 2013 at 11:15 AM · Report this
@59 Oh, and if I'd been you guys arguing with David from Chicago?

The argument I would have made isn't that the far left is more enlightened and without rhetorical ridiculousness. Because, though non-violent, it's just as kooky. But rather that the key differences between the extremes — the most important one — is that far right extremes are getting elected. Mull that over.

The left doesn't get elected. The best we get is Obama. A centrist liberal conservative.

THAT'S why the rights cray-cray rhetoric matters more. It's basically becoming mainstreamed. AND they are violent.

There. I won your argument for you.
Posted by tkc on October 17, 2013 at 11:30 AM · Report this
@25: If the far left seems non-violent to you, that's a sign of how weak they are in America,not any inherent aversion to violence on their part. The Soviet Union was founded and run by the "progressive" forces of its time.
Posted by Old Crow on October 17, 2013 at 11:35 AM · Report this
@70 I think you're actually arguing my side on this one, and you're doing a good job. But I shouldn't have chimed in on this thread to begin with, and I understand why some folks saw me as a troll. This thread was for gloating, not for thinking.
Posted by David from Chicago on October 18, 2013 at 7:17 AM · Report this
dwightmoodyforgetsthings 73
@71- You're painting with a brush so broad it is properly called a push broom.
Posted by dwightmoodyforgetsthings on October 18, 2013 at 10:23 AM · Report this
@71 So the american progressive are just as violent as a completely different cultural movement of Bolsheviks 94 years ago and over 4000 miles away?

I love it when you Wingnuts bring up something you absolutely nothing about but what some Fox News pundit gleaned from a John Bircher Society pamphlet. You don't even understand the terminology or history you use. The meaning of the terms liberal and conservative and even progressive have changed over time and the historical context for each matter.

There were a couple of Russian revolutions. They were against a violently suppressive authoritarian tyrannical monarchy.

The revolution in 1917 from which arose Stalin and the Bolsheviks - was not considered progressive. By anybody. In fact one of the first things Stalin did was to purge the left.

What's most interesting to me is you seem to be implying that a violent non-democratic imperial monarchy is better than a rebellion.

You realize that the American revolution was led by people you derisively call "progressives" against a monarchy right?

So. There is that.

And there is the stark fact that, other than a few marginalized schizophrenics like Ted Kaziniski, there is no violent leftist movement in America. There is very little far left in America at all.

Where as the violence of the Right - guys like Timothy McVeigh, Eric Rudolph and Anti-abortion Terrorism (…) are embraced and justified by the mainstream Right.

People on the right who use violent rhetoric GET ELECTED by the Right because you LOVE LOVE LOVE violence and war.
Posted by tkc on October 18, 2013 at 11:39 AM · Report this

"And if the endorsement of Kshama Sawant's (as much as I like her stand on the minimum wage) delusional belief in nationalizing Amazon isn't a symptom of this kind of rhetorical silliness I don't know what is."

You... You do realize she doesn't believe she'll ever actually nationalize Amazon, right? And the fact of the matter is that her hard left view of it will maybe create enough conversation so we can get none nationalizing but still liberal bills en route to pass or at least be in the public discussion. Fuck, that's all that really matters.
Posted by Bloated Jesus is Bloated on October 19, 2013 at 5:22 PM · Report this
Quite the response to my little post.

"You realize that the American revolution was led by people you derisively call "progressives" against a monarchy right?"

No, I have to admit that it never occurred to me to associate "progressive" with "slave owner" e.g. George Washington.

"you seem to be implying that a violent non-democratic imperial monarchy is better than a rebellion."

Better than THAT rebellion? That rebellion that killed over 30 million people? That rebellion that took power away from a democratically elected parliament? That rebellion that resulted in what was, in all but name, a far more violent non-democratic imperial monarchy? Oh hell yes.

And yes, people thought that the Soviet Union was progressive right up into the 30's and 40's. Hindsight is wonderful, Lenin and Stalin were very good at seeing that news didn't cross their borders, progressives then were as (rightly) suspicious of mainstream news as progressives are now, and so the progressives of the 30's didn't know what we do now. Why do you think Orwell wrote "Animal Farm" and "Nineteen Eighty-Four"? If everyone had had our modern perception of the Soviet Union since 1917, those books would hardly have been necessary.

Yes, agreed, there is very little far left in America at all. That's what I said. But, again, what left there is peaceful because it's weak. If they were somehow to gain power (NO chance of happening), one of the first things the extremists would do would be to purge the moderates.

Please do go on thinking I'm a right-wing American who watches Fox News. It's hilarious.
Posted by Old Crow on October 19, 2013 at 8:08 PM · Report this

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