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Sunday, August 25, 2013

Jeremy Abbott's Idiotic Spin

Posted by on Sun, Aug 25, 2013 at 11:02 AM

A U.S. figure skater who opposes speaking out against Russia's anti-gay laws because it might make him look like an ass... succeeds in making himself look like an ass by speaking out against speaking out.

 

Comments (56) RSS

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thatsnotright 1
Because state supported gay bashing is tacky.
Posted by thatsnotright on August 25, 2013 at 11:20 AM · Report this
rob! 2
Wait, pampered purple prince flaps his gums, brings up interior decorating and the word "hideous"?

Putin will nail him for that alone.
Posted by rob! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZBdUceCL5U on August 25, 2013 at 11:33 AM · Report this
3
It's not about their interior decorating, Jeremy Abbott. It's about the way they treat the people inside their household.
Posted by treehugger on August 25, 2013 at 11:36 AM · Report this
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn 4
Russia isn't sanctioning beating people in the streets. They're decorating. That blood? Those maimed bodies? Those people in prison? It's the decor. Don't go around like, "Um, the way you decorate is hideous."

Rude! Rude! Rude!

It's not like one of those countries where they beat Christians and we have to get a little impertinent about it. Beating gays is just a style choice. Let he who has never bought an ugly couch be the first to tell Moscow their official gay bashing needs a makeover.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn http://youtu.be/zu-akdyxpUc on August 25, 2013 at 11:37 AM · Report this
Supreme Ruler Of The Universe 5
Am I Dick Button, or isn't just being a male figure skater enough of a statement?

Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe http://www.you-read-it-here-first.com on August 25, 2013 at 11:39 AM · Report this
lolorhone 6
"I don't want to step inside your house because your drapes clash with your furniture" is different than "I don't want to step inside your house because I could very well be locked up and assaulted." If speaking out on the subject puts you in danger of being an ass, why didn't you just shut the fuck up, Jeremy?
Posted by lolorhone on August 25, 2013 at 11:49 AM · Report this
7
'You don't understand, Dan! This is MY MOMENT. I've worked years for this one chance at the gold medal. This is more important than preserving the civil rights of an oppressed minority. It's about me, me, me,'
Signed, every Olympic asshole who validates Putin's propaganda machine.
Posted by MyDogBen on August 25, 2013 at 1:09 PM · Report this
8
The link above isn't working at the moment.

Try this one:

http://www.towleroad.com/2013/08/us-skat…
Posted by Global Traveler on August 25, 2013 at 1:37 PM · Report this
DAVIDinKENAI 9
Lose the vest Jeremy, Julia Andrews did a better job of making tacky clothes from hideous drapes.
Posted by DAVIDinKENAI on August 25, 2013 at 1:58 PM · Report this
10
@7

Yes, actually. These athletes have worked with everything they've got for years to get this chance. For many of them 4 years from now they'll have missed their window.

So yes, respecting the laws of the host nation against corrupting minors isn't asking that much. Nobody asks that these athletes endorse Russian law, enacted democratically. Nobody asks that they participate in a two minutes hate with gays as the target. Nobody asks anything but that guests respect the laws in countries they visit.
Posted by Seattleblues on August 25, 2013 at 2:32 PM · Report this
Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn 11
@10

If it were laws against spreading Christianity, or spreading democracy, or spreading capitalism, you guys would sing a different tune. This has nothing to do with respecting Russian sovereignty or Russian values or Russian decorating flair.

It just that in this case you think the anti-gay laws are right.
Posted by Ph'nglui mglw'nafh Cthulhu R'lyeh wgah'nagl fhtagn http://youtu.be/zu-akdyxpUc on August 25, 2013 at 3:06 PM · Report this
johnjacobjingleheimerschmidt 12
That neighbor of mine beats his daughter but who am I to say anything??.... I would just look like an arse if I said something. He might not have me over a beer again.
Posted by johnjacobjingleheimerschmidt on August 25, 2013 at 3:13 PM · Report this
johnjacobjingleheimerschmidt 13
...over for a beer again...
Posted by johnjacobjingleheimerschmidt on August 25, 2013 at 3:16 PM · Report this
14
@12

If you're not a Brit using 'arse' is just pretension.

Nor is the analogy accurate. It would be more like your neighbor teaching his daughter to view homosexuality as sinful. You might vehemently disagree and still be very hesitant to interfere.

@11

I've written here that I think this law worthless. Were similar law passed here, where it's in any way my business, I'd oppose it as a violation of what we regard as essential liberty.

Even a depraved, vile bit of wasted space like Savage has a right to display his moronic lunacy, just as decent citizens have to display their integrity and decency.

The ONLY people with any dog in the fight in Russian legal process, unless some drastic threshold like genocide is crossed, are Russians. It. Isn't. Your. Business.
Posted by Seattleblues on August 25, 2013 at 3:41 PM · Report this
Pope Peabrain 15
@14 I see. So you're saying we should wait until they commit mass murder before we speak up. Because that's worked out so well in the past.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on August 25, 2013 at 3:47 PM · Report this
Sargon Bighorn 16
Once again Seattleblues, who has most likely NEVER been to Russia says Gay folk are "corrupting minors". He provides not one bit of evidence. He ignores the horror of the Russian orphanage system, the drunk heterosexuals that make babies with no idea nor concern about how to care for them, YET it's a SMALL SMALL, what maybe 1% of the population that is "Corrupting minors." When Gay folk want to be treated equally they are screamed at for being a small minority, when "THINK OF THE CHILDREN" is screamed all of a sudden Gay folk are some HULKING enormous mass this is "corrupting minors" with no hope in sight of stopping the juggernaut. Honest to Pete some self righteous religious bigots are really worse than the problem.
Posted by Sargon Bighorn on August 25, 2013 at 3:57 PM · Report this
17
Nobody is asking us to give up our iPads because of the evil things the Chinese are doing in Tibet. I don't think Putin's anti-homosexual policies are worse than that.
Posted by Ken Mehlman on August 25, 2013 at 4:18 PM · Report this
18
@16

Reading comprehension not your strong suit?

I think the law in Russia, nominally about corruption of minors, ill conceived. Vague law with no defined harms or methods for mitigating harms don't work here, and I fail to see how they'd work there.

While heart breaking the fate of orphaned or abandoned children in Russia (or China, Thailand, much of Africa and South and Central America) is out of my control. Good thing it hasn't a damned thing to do with this issue.

Gay rights are an issue, maybe, in Russia and many other places. For citizens of those countries. In the US gays and lesbians and the various flavors of crazy called transgender and so on, have more rights than the majority of citizens. They claim the right to treat crime against them with more severity, the right to define marriage for their convenience, the right for their lifestyle choice to be legally protected. Quit whining, you overgrown babies.

Homosexually inclined individuals, as a kind of mental illness, occurs at about 3% in most cultures, not 1%.
Posted by Seattleblues on August 25, 2013 at 4:18 PM · Report this
this guy I know in Spokane 19
Jeremy Abbot's more asinine quote (from the link provided by Joemygod) is at the end of the article, regarding how happy Jeremy is that there are no plans for a boycott:

"Thank God, being an athlete and having trained so long for this, I would just be crushed if that was taken away," Abbott said. "Pulling athletes out of a competitive event isn't going to solve some country's political disputes. It's only going to affect the athletes, and it's not going to do anything to change their policies or change the country or change the world."
Posted by this guy I know in Spokane on August 25, 2013 at 4:24 PM · Report this
this guy I know in Spokane 20
^ whoops, missed the double T in Abbott.
Posted by this guy I know in Spokane on August 25, 2013 at 4:25 PM · Report this
Sargon Bighorn 21
Seattleblues wrote, "respecting the laws of the host nation against corrupting minors isn't asking that much." Reading comprehension is my strong suit, that is why I called you out on your BS. Yes child abuse in Russia IS THE ISSUE. YOU stated that yourself. Calling it "Corrupting Minors" WOW you are a fraud aren't you.
Posted by Sargon Bighorn on August 25, 2013 at 4:27 PM · Report this
22
Sure, Seattleblues, you can argue that when a country passes a number of laws, regardless of how awful they are, it isn't any of our business.

But it BECOMES our business when our athletes and the athletes from many countries around the world visit Russia. Those laws are then applied and enforced to those athletes, our athletes, and all of those attending.

Which means that if you were to "act gay" while in attendance of the Olympics in Russia (and homophobia is pretty darn gay these days, Seattleblues. Just sayin.) you would be arrested. If a US athlete who had won the gold medal said casually in an interview, "I have no problem with gay people," and it was seen by children, he could be arrested. If a US athlete were openly gay and was beaten to death by whoever, the murder would most likely not be investigated. I realize that you seem to believe a murder committed as a hate crime should not be considered any worse than any other murder, but you do think murder is bad right?

Also, I'm saying US athlete not because we are in any way more important than any of the other athletes or any of the people suffering in russia. I'm saying it to remind you, it IS our business when it's also our people being threatened with arrest and violence. "It's not our business" is no excuse here because it's incorrect.
Posted by kellarules on August 25, 2013 at 4:52 PM · Report this
Last of the Time Lords 23
I hope Mr Abbott get's arrested for being gay in Russia during the games, or breaks his leg, or both
Posted by Last of the Time Lords on August 25, 2013 at 5:10 PM · Report this
smajor82 24
@14 - I have a dog in this fight because, you know, I'm a human being, and so when other human beings are being treated poorly, I care. It's called empathy - it's a lot tougher than having disdain for most of the human race and just shrugging off other people's suffering, but I think if you give it a try you'll find that it's worth it. Maybe you'll heart will grow 3 sizes and then you'll have the strength of 10 Grinches, plus 2! That would be pretty sweet, right?

Posted by smajor82 on August 25, 2013 at 5:13 PM · Report this
25
Seattleblues, you're the one failing the reading comprehension smell test.

Americans expressing their anger toward Russia, and protesting Russia's laws and practices, are simply engaged in constitutionally protected free speech and free expression.

You're free to characterize those individuals as "whining, overgrown babies." I think a clearer analogy would be to see the protesters as bearing a resemblance to anti-Apartheid activists who called for divestment from South Africa prior to Mandela's release from prison, but I know you exist in a weirdly different ethical universe from most of us who read Dan Savage.
Posted by Functional Atheist on August 25, 2013 at 5:20 PM · Report this
dnt trust me 26
@17

Chinese human rights violations, pfft, that is so yesterday. Slog is gay-centric, so this Russian stuff will invariably gain more traction than stories about Won Ton children being force fed their own feces.
Posted by dnt trust me on August 25, 2013 at 6:06 PM · Report this
27
@25

Constitutional protection applies here. In the US. If you go abroad and irritate foreign governments they don't help you.

While not as bizarre as the Godwin card that's been played so often here, the Apartheid comparison is still ridiculous. A gay man or lesbian in Russia who minds their own business and keeps private matters private will never be bothered. It would have been fairly hard for a black South African to play white.

See that's the thing about the gay lifestyle choice, you folks seem to want the choice but not the consequences. Sorry but grownups don't behave that way.
Posted by Seattleblues on August 25, 2013 at 6:07 PM · Report this
28
@22

Gee, when I got my passport there was paperwork carefully explaining what my rights as an accused criminal in a foreign country were. Nada. I think I
it said the consulate would give me, without recommendation, a list of local lawyers.

So no, US athletes voluntarily travelling abroad don't mean we have a right to oversee Russian legal process.
Posted by Seattleblues on August 25, 2013 at 6:13 PM · Report this
29
@24

On the list of nations oppressing their citizens at the moment this falls pretty low. Your crocodile tears are a bit misplaced, methinks.
Posted by Seattleblues on August 25, 2013 at 6:17 PM · Report this
30
Actually just looked at my passport. In one place it says to respect local law, in another if arrested demand to see your consul. Guide books will tell you what happens when you do. They give you, without recommendation, a list of local lawyers.
Posted by Seattleblues on August 25, 2013 at 6:22 PM · Report this
Matt from Denver 31
@ 30, remember the local anti-discrimination laws you disrespected because you're a big baby? I do.

You're a worthless hypocrite.
Posted by Matt from Denver on August 25, 2013 at 6:46 PM · Report this
32
what is your plan to deal with the way polygamists are discriminated against by US law?
Posted by you are so full of shit on August 25, 2013 at 6:46 PM · Report this
ɥsɐןɯouǝʌ 33
@14: So...when an unpopular minority group in a country we do a good deal of business with is legislated against, routinely assaulted and lynched, and publicly denounced as subhuman by elected officials, it's none of our concern? Yet when two people you don't even know want to get married, they suddenly need your approval before their union can be legally recognized.
The sheer cognitive dissonance at work must give you headaches. In 1850, you'd be the guy telling the northern abolitionists that the South's peculiar institution was none of our Yankee business.
@27: I fucking bet. As a member of a minority capable of "passing", I can tell you that you're full of shit. Let your mind wander over to the Marranos in Inquisition-era Iberia and rethink your worthless opinions.
Posted by ɥsɐןɯouǝʌ on August 25, 2013 at 7:34 PM · Report this
34
@25 "free speech and free expression."

Well now that's the thing about the people supporting this Russian law. They don't just hate gay people, they hate free speech and expression.
Posted by GermanSausage on August 25, 2013 at 7:36 PM · Report this
35
@32, polygamy is an immoral lifestyle choice.
Posted by GermanSausage on August 25, 2013 at 7:37 PM · Report this
36
I accept Ms Seattleblues at her word. That she is a moral and upstanding Moral, Christian, Citizen and as such would follow any law the country of which she is a citizen.

#10 ". Nobody asks anything but that guests respect the laws in countries they visit."

#10 "Nobody asks that these athletes endorse Russian law, enacted democratically."

As a good citizen Ms. Seattleblues would of course support the democratically agreed upon law with which she agrees with in principal but not in the specific.

#18 "I think the law in Russia, nominally about corruption of minors, ill conceived. Vague law with no defined harms or methods for mitigating harms don't work here, and I fail to see how they'd work there."

#18 "Homosexually inclined individuals, as a kind of mental illness, occurs at about 3% in most cultures, not 1%. "

#27 "See that's the thing about the gay lifestyle choice, you folks seem to want the choice but not the consequences."

From this I can only conclude that Ms Seattleblues would gladly drive the car taking me to jail for wearing a T-shirt that read, "Peace, Love, Pride, Family" in gay rainbow colors. After all I was in a public park and there were children.

While wilfully, eagerly even, compartmentalizing off in her mind what she knows will happen to me.

On Sunday she would go to church and affirm to herself that she is blessed and righteous even as her pastor reads off my name as one of those in her communion who had died.

After all she is a good and moral Christian citizen who supports the democratic process of her country. When she agrees with it in principal if not the particulars. Of course.

Posted by Machiavelli was framed on August 25, 2013 at 7:50 PM · Report this
37
@31 LOL I forgot about that.
Posted by Machiavelli was framed on August 25, 2013 at 7:56 PM · Report this
this guy I know in Spokane 38
@36 -- gee, you say all that stuff almost like it was a bad thing.
Posted by this guy I know in Spokane on August 25, 2013 at 8:08 PM · Report this
39
Nice turn of phrase, but this guy isn't an ass. Asses are nice. Dan has a nice ass. This guy has a nice ass; the problem is the rest of him: he is an idiot.

First of all, Russia didn't do a poor job decorating. They passed a law banning free speech when it pertains to a particular subject. That is bad on two counts (of course). One, free speech is a universal right. Two, the reason they banned it was to ensure that a minority (in this case a sexual minority) remain oppressed.

If Putin (or some other government official) had said something horrible about homosexuals, then maybe, just maybe, the first part of his analogy might make some sense. But they passed an oppressive law. Put it this way, if you wave a rainbow flag at the games, you risk incarceration.

Second, the games are in Russia, and there is nothing you can do about it. If the guy down the street with the confederate flag hosts a party, I can just leave. There are other parties. But the Olympics are the Olympics. They only happen every four years. Athletes train for years so that they can just compete at that level; they dream of getting a medal and standing on the podium. They just happen to be occurring in Russia next year. If they happened in Canada, or France, or Sweden, no one would care. It is interesting for the athlete (I'm sure) to see the country, but that is not why they are there. They are there because it is the Olympics.

His analogy fails horribly on both counts. He is an idiot.
Posted by Ross on August 25, 2013 at 9:15 PM · Report this
Sargon Bighorn 40
"you folks seem to want the choice but not the consequences" Seattleblues, I'll take the same consequences for my life style choice that you take for your life style choice. So tell us, have you lost a job for being Hetero? Have you been evicted for being Hetero? Have you been denied services for being Hetero? Have you been denied civil marriage rights for being Hetero? Well? What consequences do you face for your life style choice? You want us to take the consequences for our choice, what might those be?
Posted by Sargon Bighorn on August 25, 2013 at 11:02 PM · Report this
41
Under Apartheid South Africa, black people could choose to keep their heads down and to become useful lackeys by helping white bosses control other black people, in factories, the police force, in the separate "homelands" which gave the illusion of political power. They led relatively stable lives that could even have been materially and financially comfortable, as long as the Apartheid system remained in place.

So, it was not true that just because you had black skin, it meant that *in all cases*, you will lead a life of poverty and misery. It's about the choices you make in life, right? In Apartheid South Africa, you had the choice of being "African" (within the racial classification system), or you could choose to be "black" (in Steve Biko's sense of the word). And, yes, there are consequences to the choices you make in your life. You could choose to participate in the subjugation, imprisonment and murder of people like you, or you could choose to be part of the betterment of life, of liberation, of living according to your conscience.

Hate to add to the stupid; but since the stupid tried to banish the historical lesson of Apartheid to the margins of Godwin's Law, I felt I had to chip in.
Posted by ravished on August 25, 2013 at 11:52 PM · Report this
Sean Kinney 42
Idiotic yes. Understandable too. His entire adult life (and likely his pre-teen/teen years) has been devoted to a singular sport which either culminates in his participation in the Olympic Games... or, with any luck, it becomes the foundation for functional career.

No shit this is problematic. No fucking duh we should scrap our popular commitment to a grossly over-commercialized charade hosted by a reactionary regime. But this is not surprising given what's at stake for this kid.
Posted by Sean Kinney http:// on August 26, 2013 at 12:01 AM · Report this
smajor82 43
@29 - Stop projecting your apathy onto me. When I see someone suffering, I don't go through the list of people who have it worse and then tell them to suck it up. You can rationalize not giving a shit all you want, but at the end of the day you're just choosing to not give a shit.
Posted by smajor82 on August 26, 2013 at 6:07 AM · Report this
smajor82 44
@35 Seriously??? If consenting adults choose to live together and are happy with the arrangement, your proclamation of immorality is all that you need to justify interfering? The fact that some or many polygamous relationships are based on gender power inequities does not mean polygamous relationships are immoral, it means that gender power inequities can lead to bad relationships.

All that said - @32 - the comparison of polygamy, a relationship model, to homosexuality, which is about the type of person someone romantically loves, is getting old. They're marginally connected issues. Let's stay on topic. The world is full of things that would be nice to have changed.
Posted by smajor82 on August 26, 2013 at 6:16 AM · Report this
45
So Seattle Blues has no problems with respecting laws that discriminate against gays in Russia, Blacks in South Africa during the apartheid years, Blacks in the US under Jim Crow, women in Saudi Arabia, etc.?

It's fine to criticize Uganda for the "Kill the gays" law that it tabled a few years ago. We're not required to respect discriminatory laws here or elsewhere.

Posted by Patricia Kayden on August 26, 2013 at 7:37 AM · Report this
46
@41,

Very well put. I would love to know if Seattle Blues can choose to be gay since he claims that gays can choose to be straight.
Posted by Patricia Kayden on August 26, 2013 at 7:45 AM · Report this
47
Mr Abbott wants to be on Mr Lysacek's tour, methinks, the one Mr Lysacek said Mr Weir "wasn't good enough" to join.
Posted by vennominon on August 26, 2013 at 8:10 AM · Report this
48
So, Mr. Abbott, if you were invited to dinner at someone's house, and you discovered the wife with bruises and a cast, one kid chained up in the basement, and the father brandishing a baseball bat and threatening to use it on anyone who dared to call him out on his abuse of family members, would you be like, "Fine, whatever, dude, where's the artichoke dip?"

Some day, Mr. Abbott, if you are very, very lucky, you will have matured enough to be deeply embarrassed by your statement.
Posted by avast2006 on August 26, 2013 at 10:28 AM · Report this
lolorhone 49
Mr. Ven @47: Lysacek said that? He's got his Olympic gold already, why continue the hostility? Did he learn no compassion after Stojko declared his win the Day Men's Figure Skating Died? This is why I stopped watching. What a dick.
Posted by lolorhone on August 26, 2013 at 12:08 PM · Report this
thelyamhound 50
In the US gays and lesbians and the various flavors of crazy called transgender and so on, have more rights than the majority of citizens.
So you say, but you've not yet illustrated it (and thus the reader has no reason whatsoever to hold it as true). What rights do lesbians, gays, etc., have that you don't?
They claim the right to treat crime against them with more severity, the right to define marriage for their convenience, the right for their lifestyle choice to be legally protected.
Marriage was already, and is still, defined for your convenience (as a breeding heterosexual) and mine (as a man in a non-breeding heterosexual marriage). Nothing has changed with regards to the way in which the law recognizes our marriages.

As to hate-crimes, I take your point, and have gone on record numerous times opposing such legislation. But whinging about special rights, while ignoring (or perhaps just failing miserably, due to either laziness or intellectual inadequacy, to address) the arguments that the "pro-" side makes for such laws does little to nothing to help your cause.
Posted by thelyamhound http://thebayinghound.blogspot.com on August 26, 2013 at 2:47 PM · Report this
thelyamhound 51
Nobody is asking us to give up our iPads because of the evil things the Chinese are doing in Tibet. I don't think Putin's anti-homosexual policies are worse than that.
I wouldn't say that "nobody" has asked as much; I've certainly heard calls for boycott. The trouble is that while iPads should perhaps, be viewed as luxury items, such luxuries become necessities as soon as the gatekeepers in whatever industry gives you your bread and butter start expecting you to have them (that is, if you're expected to be able to check email on the bus, you'd better be able to check email on the bus).
Posted by thelyamhound http://thebayinghound.blogspot.com on August 26, 2013 at 2:52 PM · Report this
52
Seattleblues would jump at the chance to drop a dime on the Frank family. Seattle blues would get an erection watching a South Afrikan black being necklaced. Seattleblues would whisper gossip about how that Till kid was flirting with a white woman. Seattleblues would off handedly remark to some drunk redneck kid in a bar about how that queer lookin' Shephard kid should learn his place. History is dotted with Seattleblueses stirring the pot while remaining oh so above any responsibility for what happens to anyone else. It's never Any. Of. His/Her. Business.
Posted by kwodell on August 26, 2013 at 3:31 PM · Report this
sissoucat 53
@44 I agree with you in principle, but let's be real : "polygamy" is usually a cover-word for "forced polyginy".

And forced polygyny is indeed immoral, on par with all the other non-consensual sexual stuff.

Ask the women in "polygamic" marriages, in the countries were it exists. They would gladly change for a monogamic marriage with the same earning powers. Only poverty forces a woman there to agree to marry an already married man. And when you marry an unmarried man, there's no telling if he'll stay monogamous or want another wife down the years. There's no law giving a say to the first wife over the husband marrying again. It's "shut up or I'll divorce you". And by divorcing, women lose all custody of their small children to the father in those countries. That's immoral.
Posted by sissoucat on August 27, 2013 at 7:47 AM · Report this
ɥsɐןɯouǝʌ 54
@53: I believe that in a good few Islamic countries, polygyny is allowed with the caveat that if a man takes another wife, his preexisting wife(s) must consent to it. However, it's probably not enforced well in rural areas.
Posted by ɥsɐןɯouǝʌ on August 27, 2013 at 10:20 AM · Report this
Rujax! 55
The Homophobic Prick @ 10,14,18,27,28,29 and 30...

What does he mean we're not tolerant.

He's a homophobic prick and he's tolerated here.

Posted by Rujax! http://rujax.blogspot.com/ on August 27, 2013 at 2:48 PM · Report this
thelyamhound 56
@53 - Fair rejoinder, particularly the bit about polygamy, which is supposed to include both polyandry (multiple husbands) and polygyny (multiple wives), is often used as code for the latter, and particularly in cultures or sub-cultures where consent is ... dubiously defined. But it seems to me that if you outlaw polygamy, only outlaws will have polygamy. Similarly, if you consign it to the Third World, then you'll only have Third World examples from which to draw.

All that said, it still has nothing to do with same-sex marriage.

Posted by thelyamhound http://thebayinghound.blogspot.com on August 27, 2013 at 3:26 PM · Report this

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