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Wednesday, July 3, 2013

On Dance-Floor Dick-Punching and Bad Pick-Up Technique

Posted by on Wed, Jul 3, 2013 at 8:24 AM

Local blogger Molly McIsaac has a great post up about her fucked-up experience on a dance floor at Pride, and it contains this paragraph:

I punched him. I punched that motherfucker in the dick so hard that it was like I was a heroine in a martial arts movie. And then I streaked through the crowd, adrenaline pumping through me as I heard him yell "you BITCH!"

Hey, man, you clearly wanted her to touch your wiener. I guess you'll have to be real specific about the velocity of the grope you want next time or something? I say every time a dance-floor groper gets a dick punch, a fairy gets its wings (plus a set of reusable menstrual pads). Go read it.


Comments (41) RSS

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care bear 1
And of course there are already comments blaming her.
Posted by care bear on July 3, 2013 at 8:45 AM · Report this
Doctor Memory 2

(Except on slog.)
Posted by Doctor Memory on July 3, 2013 at 8:52 AM · Report this
My favourite comment is the one that cheers her and in the same breath backhands women who complain about being ogled even though they're "on display." Ok. Did anybody even mention that?
Posted by Gloria on July 3, 2013 at 8:53 AM · Report this
Posted by Gloria on July 3, 2013 at 8:53 AM · Report this
Theodore Gorath 5
Getting punched in the dick does not hurt at all.

The testicles however...

As far as I am concerned, someone groping you is assault, and you are allowed to defend yourself with dick punches if you are being assaulted.

Punch on, ladies.
Posted by Theodore Gorath on July 3, 2013 at 8:57 AM · Report this
"Molly McIvins" would be an awesome blogger name (though that's not who you linked to).
Posted by DOUG. on July 3, 2013 at 9:24 AM · Report this
Isn;t Molly McIvins a Seattle Times columnist? A lady of a certain age? I was amused at the thought of her getting so salty on Pride.
Posted by genevieve on July 3, 2013 at 9:28 AM · Report this
TheMisanthrope 8
@3 For all you know, Mark may have a reputation on that blog. Or, are you a regular reader? For all I know, this is his first comment on her blog. I dunno.
Posted by TheMisanthrope on July 3, 2013 at 9:37 AM · Report this
Chef Thunder 9
Good on her!!!! Keep on punching
Posted by Chef Thunder on July 3, 2013 at 9:39 AM · Report this
seatackled 10
Good for her! And also, I'm sorry she and all other women have to put up with this shit.

Makes me of the Egyptian film 678, which was at SIFF a couple of years ago, in which a woman started carrying pins to stab at her gropers on the public buses.
Posted by seatackled on July 3, 2013 at 9:50 AM · Report this
The Striking Viking 11
She's a friend, and a coworker, and her name is Molly McIsaac (not McIvans)...says it right there in the blog :P
Posted by The Striking Viking on July 3, 2013 at 10:04 AM · Report this
Thank you for linking to my blog!! I need a patch on my denim vest that says "dick puncher" in sparkly letters.

But my name is Molly MCISAAC, not McIvins :-)
Posted by MollyMcIsaac on July 3, 2013 at 10:13 AM · Report this
Molly Ivins (no Mc):

It would be even more incredible than I initially thought, had she been the author of said blog, since she died in 2007.
Posted by genevieve on July 3, 2013 at 10:24 AM · Report this
Ha-ha, shit! Sorry about the name. Computer ate my original (non-stupid-typo-having) post and I had to rewrite it on the fly. One of those days!
Posted by Anna Minard on July 3, 2013 at 10:28 AM · Report this
venomlash 15
And that is one of many reasons why I respect women's bodies as their own property.
Posted by venomlash on July 3, 2013 at 10:31 AM · Report this
@venomlash Yeaaah... anyone who thinks otherwise is KIND of a douche. The fact that there's even a need for you to make this statement makes me sad.
Posted by MollyMcIsaac on July 3, 2013 at 10:39 AM · Report this
Catherwood 17
@16, yes, but their name is Legion. Look what's going on in the Texas and NC legislatures: it's all about legislating that women be chattel. They ought to just mandate that women be swaddled in shackles and chains and get it over with; that's what they want. I am so ashamed for my fellow men sometimes.
Posted by Catherwood on July 3, 2013 at 11:07 AM · Report this
wingedkat 18
I used to go to bars just to dance quite a bit. I've never never had a guy put my hand on his dick, but I have had them shove their (clothed) dicks into my butt and rub themselves (they call it dancing, I call it dry humping), grope my boobs, and slide their hands up my skirt or down my pants. Generally with no warning, and from behind.

I eventually developed a 3 strike rule. 1. Pull away and say/yell "Sorry, I dance alone". 2. Push him away with "No! Leave me alone!" 3. "FUCK OFF!" 4. Violence.

Unfortunately, a violent response is the only "no" that gets through to some guys... and often only because other people in the crowd finally intervene against him after I'd delivered punch to the face or knee to the groin.

Too bad the sight of a woman firmly pushing a man away while yelling "fuck off!" in his face doesn't get the same crowd intervention.
Posted by wingedkat on July 3, 2013 at 11:08 AM · Report this
Not sure how sexual assault by one straight man on a straight woman a straight bar constitutes "at pride".
Posted by decidedlyodd on July 3, 2013 at 11:27 AM · Report this
The quote in this post had me questioning the appropriateness of the dick punch in question. Is violence really a a good response? After reading the article I have to say that I don't think a dick punch was called for.

You can get much more force with a kick.
Posted by -J on July 3, 2013 at 11:29 AM · Report this
@19, it was for the Unicorn Stampede, which was a Pride event.
Posted by MollyMcIsaac on July 3, 2013 at 11:38 AM · Report this
Supreme Ruler Of The Universe 22

The picture says it all...SEATTLE DANCE CLUB...indeed.

Posted by Supreme Ruler Of The Universe on July 3, 2013 at 11:45 AM · Report this
This is how these stories should always end! Sometimes I find the complaining about complements from strangers thing a bit tiresome, but if a guy touches a women without explicit permission, then they need to be punched in the balls. No touching, never's such an easy rule to follow. Lesson learned for that dude.
Posted by shotsix on July 3, 2013 at 12:13 PM · Report this
I heartily endorse punitive dick punching, though punitive ball punching is far more effective.

In this instance, as described, I don't believe it.

I believe she was groped. Or I should say it's a sickening statistical certainty some girl was groped dancing at the Unicorn during pride. But THIS girl never punched anybody. At least I am 88% certain so. I could be wrong. But I doubt it.

I'd like to believe this story. But the scene is way to flip and detailed. I worked in clubs for way too long and have dealt way too much with fighting and assaults and all that for this to pass my instinctual bullshit detector.

No matter how much I want it to be true until verified by a third party this story I have to go with as being a revenge fantasy she would have like to have done. Which I can hardly blame anybody for.
Posted by tkc on July 3, 2013 at 1:02 PM · Report this
@24 I can assure you, as a noteable blogger and someone who has my reputation to lose, this did happen. My best friend was there with me. As I stated in a comment on my blog: this has happened to me enough times that I was prepared for the next time a dude crossed the line. The first time I was groped/sexually assaulted, I just cried. Or was in shock. The second and third times, too. But now that I've had years to prepare myself for this sort of behavior, I knew exactly what I needed to do.

And honestly, if he hadn't have gone for my hand a second time I wouldn't have done it. But I was reeling already from his audacity, and the only thing I could think to do was ball my fist up and "donkey punch" him. He was behind me, so I just hit him as hard as I could from that position and then took off.
Posted by MollyMcIsaac on July 3, 2013 at 1:29 PM · Report this
@24 And the reason it's so "detailed" is because I'm a professional writer and journalist. Remembering details is what I get paid to do. Painting a picture with words is what I get paid to do.
Posted by MollyMcIsaac on July 3, 2013 at 1:31 PM · Report this
@ 25/26

I'm not intending to impugn you personally since it was personal blog post you wrote and your responsibilities to a story are different, but as a professional journalist then you know once it gets re-posted it should be the Strangers job as the record-of-note to verify a story. If they did they didn't post that info in the thread.

A link to a blog post itself is not really a substitute for fact checking. If it was we'd all have to take it as fact that Obama is a foreign born muslim terrorist.

IOW, it would have been awesome if Anna or whoever could've got you're friends statement included in here somewhere as a witness to said dick punching.

Otherwise it still lays in the territory of unconfirmed anecdote. Again I want ALL of your story to be true. I want to be proven totally wrong here.

So there is that and there my own gut, which I can outline my experience a little better.

When I worked in rock clubs back in the day there probably a half a dozen or more gropings a night (depending on the show). That we found out about. If one of us had seen it, it was easy. We usually 86'd the groper.

Most of the time we didn't see it.

Sometimes it would be very serious. Like full assault. And throwing somebody out was problematic because the club owner would want to call the cops and you didn't want that guy out there waiting for the victim to leave. So you'd have to talk to the victim and try to get a clear idea what happened for the cops.

Rarely, like less than half the time, did any girl we talked to get physical back usually do shock, I think. When they did it was a very reflexive push, slap, or punch to the mans face. Only one did one women kick a guy in the nuts. Turned out she was trained.

Lastly the details of what happened were always naturally very muddy. Most victims were very fuzzy on details. It always seemed to me those rare occasions that details were unexpectedly over supplied that about half of the time is was a mistake or some other kind of emotional thing was going on between the two parties. Usually we found this out through witnesses. When in doubt if the groper stuck around we could let him incriminate him self. And boy, did they.

I hope you see and recognize my skepticism comes from an honest place. Because I'd really like to visualize that dick punch in good conscience.

Posted by tkc on July 3, 2013 at 2:46 PM · Report this
venomlash 28
@25: Not to rain on your parade, but "donkey punch" doesn't mean what you think it does.
Posted by venomlash on July 3, 2013 at 2:59 PM · Report this
Lissa 29
Dear Ms. McIsaac,
Please provide the contact information of no fewer than three(3) witnesses to the alleged event to be deposed by a neutral third party.
After notarization, please submit their testimony to tkc for final approval. In addition please submit copies of transcripts of any journalism programs you have completed and pay stubs from any media outlets by whom you have been employed.

Be advised that you will receive judgement as to the veracity of your testimony from the proper authority (aka tkc) within 10 business days. Until that time you are to refrain from communicating any information regarding the alleged event to any and all media outlets, blogs, relatives, friends, or acquaintances.
In future, please follow this procedure when documenting any personal event on your blog.

Thank you
Posted by Lissa on July 3, 2013 at 4:08 PM · Report this
@29 TLDR; version:

Everything you read on the internet is 100% true!
Posted by tkc on July 3, 2013 at 4:14 PM · Report this
Lissa 31
@30: Correction:
Random Internet dude demands proof of woman's version of event as posted on her personal blog.

Believe her, don't believe her. Whatever.

Coming on here and calling her story a revenge fantasy and demanding that she prove to you that it actually happened.... Breathtaking.
She doesn't owe you shit. I mean seriously who the fuck are you? Why the hell should she waste her time trying to satisfy you?

Posted by Lissa on July 3, 2013 at 4:54 PM · Report this
Lissa 32
@28: I interpreted her to mean that she punched back like a donkey would kick back at some one behind them, but indeed! Had she actually donkey punched him on the dance floor that would have been an event worthy of the fever dreams of Rick Santorum and a sight to see!
Posted by Lissa on July 3, 2013 at 6:11 PM · Report this
How do we fight the inappropriate sexual abuse of women? With violence, that's how! Go America!
Posted by Molly'sDickPunch on July 3, 2013 at 9:42 PM · Report this
ScrawnyKayaker 34
@29 Very nicely played.
Posted by ScrawnyKayaker on July 3, 2013 at 10:05 PM · Report this
Lissa 35
@34: Thank you kindly sir and/or madam. :)
Posted by Lissa on July 3, 2013 at 10:44 PM · Report this
@28 Is it fair that I characterize your position that you must never question anything you read on the Internet?
About as fair as you are characterizing mine.

Her story appeals to my biases, too. Okay. The only element that doesn't ring true to my experience is the punch. That's it.

How dare I, right? Who do I NEED to be, what gender, what religion, what sexual orientation, what race, in order to possess and voice skepticism? I guess everyone who doest agree with you should just shut up.

I don't own this magic truth detector you so clearly possesses. I require actual facts to be presented. You seem to be arguing that we all need some mysterious alignment of identity politics in order to question the details of published articles? That'll work out well.

Plus your reading comprehension is terrible. I didn't demand anything. And you may not have read my second post. But I clearly stated it's The Strangers job to fact check before reporting something.

The Stranger IS a newspaper (Slog being an extension of that), is it not? Journalists, in my understanding of the term have responsibilities to fact check before publishing.

Or is it perfectly fine to print any and all anecdotes as fact merely because they appeal to our biases? It's an entertaining anecdote for sure. But that's all it is until it's proven to be true.

So, no, ask yourself WHO the fuck are you to tell anybody they don't have right to voice skeptism.

Posted by tkc on July 4, 2013 at 10:13 AM · Report this
@18 "Unfortunately, a violent response is the only "no" that gets through to some guys... and often only because other people in the crowd finally intervene against him after I'd delivered punch to the face or knee to the groin.

Too bad the sight of a woman firmly pushing a man away while yelling "fuck off!" in his face doesn't get the same crowd intervention."

I'll give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that you believe "the crowd," whether male or female, should come to the aid of anyone, male or female, who is under attack. Because if you just mean that nearby men should reflexively come to the aid of women, that is really old-fashioned and sexist.

So assuming you mean the former, I will say that one thing I have learned from paying attention to videos of public fights and assaults on youtube, etc. over the last few years is: never count on bystanders to come to your aid. The common assumption that because you are in a public place with other people around you are safe is false. Most people are too scared, passive, or oblivious to get involved--or are more likely to video the action while shouting "world star" than to help. I am large, straight, white male with a martial arts background, but after watching a video of a m-t-f transsexual being beaten in a McDonalds full of people for 10 minutes with no one intervening, I bought a knife.
Posted by Adversary on July 4, 2013 at 10:17 AM · Report this
lolorhone 38
My mother has a saying: "You have to bring your ass to get mine." Otherwise known amongst us black folk as "Don't start no shit, won't be no shit." That is all.
Posted by lolorhone on July 5, 2013 at 7:14 AM · Report this
Lissa 39
@36: You have every right to your skepticism. Indeed the internet is awash with fable and legend.
Believe her or don't. That is entirely up to you.
Standing in front of the man, her back toward him, she struck backwards with a balled fist connecting with his dick. Seems plausible enough to me, but not to you, because as you say, your extensive experience in nightclub security does not support that scenario.

About that.

It would have been awesome if Anna or whoever could've got you're friends statement included in here somewhere that you have worked in clubs for way too long and have dealt way too much with fighting and assaults. Otherwise it still lays in the territory of unconfirmed anecdote. Again I want ALL of your story to be true. I want to be proven totally wrong here.

Linking to a personal anecdote on a personal blog is exactly what Anna did when linking to Molly's story. It does not meet the standard required of say linking to a story about a public figure or an actual news story. So no, the Stranger is not required to fact check it, as Molly's story was never presented as news.

And as a private citizen chronicling an event on her personal blog, she is not obligated to prove anything to you, Random Anonymous Internet Dude.

And to be clear, the fact that she owes you dickitty do da has nothing to do with what gender, what religion, what sexual orientation, what race, you, or she are.
Posted by Lissa on July 5, 2013 at 10:23 AM · Report this
This is kind of a so what. Man messes with bull, gets horns. Of course he doesn't like it. No one likes getting bunched in the balls. No one likes getting called out when they're trying to sneak something. 0% of reasonable people, normal people, men women straights gays alike, think it's the type of thing that a guy is "entitled" to. I've seen women react similarly when they are called out; I've seen cops react similarly when called out.

On the whole, this is the way these kind of stories "should" play out.
Posted by fetish on July 5, 2013 at 1:20 PM · Report this
There are a lot of douchebags like this guy in our city and other cities.

They do this shit because it works often enough and they get called down on it rarely enough that it's worth their while. There's no effective feedback system that suitably discourages their behavior. Activism and blog articles don't work on these people.
Posted by El Steven on July 5, 2013 at 2:58 PM · Report this

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