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News & ArtsFriday, March 22, 2013
Science / The Ladies / Teh Internets Woman Really into Science, Internet Poops Itself with Stupidity
Posted by Anna Minard on Fri, Mar 22, 2013 at 3:27 PM
Come on, internet. Just when you were giving me such funny pictures of crying children and articles about ravenous vaginas the last few days, you gotta go be stupid again.
Ever read/like/repost things from the Facebook page I Fucking Love Science? It's highly likely you have, since the page has 4.2 million "Likes" and posts smart, interesting, funny science facts and stories multiple times a day, in easy-to-digest meme-style images that get shared thousands of times apiece. They show up in my feed all the time.
Well, this week, the admin of the page, Elise Andrew, posted a link to her brand-new Twitter feed. If you didn't just LOSE YOUR MIND when you noticed that's a female first name, congratulations! You win the internet today. Thousands of commenters on her page, however, appear to have nearly died with shock. A woman?!? Who likes science?!? Also: She appears to be young and pretty. OH, SHIT.
From the Guardian (she's a Brit):
The post provoked an onslaught of comments discussing her gender and looks. "F.ck me! This is a babe ?!!" wrote commenter Can Durace. "holy hell, youre a HOTTIE!" wrote Douglas Pistone Linares.Lou Forbes said: "you mean you're a girl, AND you're beautiful? wow, i just liked science a lil bit more today ^^"
When she reposted that Guardian story on Twitter, it went like this:
@Elise_Andrew: A Guardian blogger wrote about all the sexist comments I got on my post earlier, check it out.@charlespratt: @Elise_Andrew A lot of those comments were just compliments. I mean you are an attractive woman. Doesn't make it sexist, dear.
Good lord, jerks. This shit is tiring. But Andrew seems wonderful. A recent tweet: "Bored of the whole sexism thing. For the rest of the day I will only be tweeting photos of nudibranchs."
1
Heh heh heh. Naked gills. Heh heh heh.
[Completely unsurprised at every level of this, uh... event? Women do science. Men are perennially amazed that, wow, women are, like, PEOPLE and stuff! Plus ca change....]
[Completely unsurprised at every level of this, uh... event? Women do science. Men are perennially amazed that, wow, women are, like, PEOPLE and stuff! Plus ca change....]
2
Who cares if she's a world-renowned scientist? Does she smile enough to highlight her beautiful features?
3
So there's a whole lot of make teenage science dorks who are a bit pent up with desire to find a woman they can relate to. Color me surprised.
5
Doesn't make it sexist, dear.
Love the irony in this one. I'm sure Charles Pratt didn't have to worry his pretty little head for a second to come up w/ that one.
7
@3, none of those dudes is "relating to" her.
@6, what's your excuse? How's that thing with Ellen Barkin working out for you?
@6, what's your excuse? How's that thing with Ellen Barkin working out for you?
9
She outed herself as a woman in subtle way at least once on one of her Facebook items some months ago. I was (shamefully!) slightly surprised when I found out, then was also surprised that so few people knew before her shocking twitter picture shocked everyone with its beauty and womanliness.
10
So, as someone who is a legit scientist, "I fucking love science" is a fucking pox. Seriously, worst shit.
11
well, she's hot. her photo looks like a personal ad. men love it when women think they are hot. also, so what. think Neil deGrasse Tyson has a few people looking first at his black skin? his response? wow them with science and his genuinely great personality and mostly ignore the stupid shit.
14
Because it represents science in a way that reduces science to OMG AMAZING FACTS (which are overt simplifications), waaaaacky pictures, and pop-science journalism minus context to appeal to the shortest possible attention spans in a manner that discourages further investigation, and belittles scientific endeavours which don't make snazzy headlines.
15
I don't know what's Asparagus's objection, but here's what I don't like about IFLS: It reduces science to pretty pictures and arcane (supposed) facts, and science is not at all about trivia. It's much greater and involved than that - a discovery of why things happen(ed) and how they work. Furthermore, it isn't all about traveling to distant, exotic, photogenic locales. Some of it is downright ugly, or messy, or microscopic, or basically lacking in mass - it's not necessarily as sexy as IFLS's pretty pictures. I don't like that the website offers these little cute, forgetable facts about pretty things that makes people feel smarter for reading it.
Yes, at least the website *promotes* science and gets people passively interested at a time when science funding is controversial and not enough scientists know how to make their profession accessible to us laymen. But still, I find the pretty pictures and cute facts (which we assume are correct) to be the equivalent of a taffy, brightly colored and flavorful, but insubstantial.
Yes, at least the website *promotes* science and gets people passively interested at a time when science funding is controversial and not enough scientists know how to make their profession accessible to us laymen. But still, I find the pretty pictures and cute facts (which we assume are correct) to be the equivalent of a taffy, brightly colored and flavorful, but insubstantial.
16
@15, I can't help but wonder if you would have used words like trivial, pretty, sexy, cute, forgettable, brightly colored, etc before you knew the writer's gender.
17
@Asparagus -
I get why it annoys you, but generally I'm of the mind that anything which opens someone up to science is essentially a Good Thing, even if it's not necessarily the most scientifically sound thing. Most of the non-science people I come across are woefully disengaged from how things work, and don't ever seem to question the why behind the world around them. Making them take notice for a second is a great way to pique that curiosity, and I'm all for that.
Someone who is curious and engaged will be more able to sit and listen to me prattle about the un-snazzy work I do. Baby steps, baby steps.
I get why it annoys you, but generally I'm of the mind that anything which opens someone up to science is essentially a Good Thing, even if it's not necessarily the most scientifically sound thing. Most of the non-science people I come across are woefully disengaged from how things work, and don't ever seem to question the why behind the world around them. Making them take notice for a second is a great way to pique that curiosity, and I'm all for that.
Someone who is curious and engaged will be more able to sit and listen to me prattle about the un-snazzy work I do. Baby steps, baby steps.
18
@14, 15:
I seriously doubt that you've ever looked at her actual page. Because the majority of what she posts are links to serious science writing, generally in reference to primary research.
The meme-y stuff is what tends to get re-posted a lot (and maybe that's what you see in your feed), but it is a comparatively small fraction of her total content. As of right now, her last five posts are about: NASA funding (sexy!), a clinical trial run by Amgen, a meme about spiders, therapeutics derived from toxins, and the leaf-tailed gecko.
Also, what @16 said.
And seriously: lighten up.
I seriously doubt that you've ever looked at her actual page. Because the majority of what she posts are links to serious science writing, generally in reference to primary research.
The meme-y stuff is what tends to get re-posted a lot (and maybe that's what you see in your feed), but it is a comparatively small fraction of her total content. As of right now, her last five posts are about: NASA funding (sexy!), a clinical trial run by Amgen, a meme about spiders, therapeutics derived from toxins, and the leaf-tailed gecko.
Also, what @16 said.
And seriously: lighten up.
19
Yeah, I think there is a reasonable conversation to have about how to present science to a general audience, but I don't want to get involved in it on slog comments.
I mean, the point here is the way women are systemically disadvantaged in STEM fields. I've overheard people discussing the appearance of women who are mentors and colleagues before discussing their work, it's bullshit, and it doesn't become any less bullshit in this case because I don't personally like the content that IFLS puts out.
I mean, the point here is the way women are systemically disadvantaged in STEM fields. I've overheard people discussing the appearance of women who are mentors and colleagues before discussing their work, it's bullshit, and it doesn't become any less bullshit in this case because I don't personally like the content that IFLS puts out.
20
Oh god its like art school but for science people in here... Yeah yeah "normal dumb peoples kind of science" is beneath you. I bet you guys say "popular science" the same way most people say "genital warts".
Yes its probably dumbed down, its probably filled with silly anecdotes and fun stories and lovely pictures but thats life for you. Most people don't know all the fiddly details about allot of stuff - including the natural sciences.
The presentation of information is important - but sometimes we just need to hear a Sagan quote, or De Grasse saying something fun combined with an awesome photo of some star somewhere. Just to get a feeling of "yeah ok so I'm shit at this but at least somewhere, someone, has a clue and I want to fund them!". It's inspirational.
Likewise the pages "I fucking love cooking" "I fucking love computers" and "I fucking love architecture" probably doesn't have how to force feed a goose butter to make your own foie gras from scratch, how to compile a Linux kernel or the exact background to why the White House have ionic columns. No its gonna be photos of food, silly jokes about programming and fun houses.
Yes its probably dumbed down, its probably filled with silly anecdotes and fun stories and lovely pictures but thats life for you. Most people don't know all the fiddly details about allot of stuff - including the natural sciences.
The presentation of information is important - but sometimes we just need to hear a Sagan quote, or De Grasse saying something fun combined with an awesome photo of some star somewhere. Just to get a feeling of "yeah ok so I'm shit at this but at least somewhere, someone, has a clue and I want to fund them!". It's inspirational.
Likewise the pages "I fucking love cooking" "I fucking love computers" and "I fucking love architecture" probably doesn't have how to force feed a goose butter to make your own foie gras from scratch, how to compile a Linux kernel or the exact background to why the White House have ionic columns. No its gonna be photos of food, silly jokes about programming and fun houses.
21
I'm really sick of all the anti-women bullshit that is in such flair up these days. I dont hate men as a rule, but I'm starting to look at a good many of them with with the same distaste I have for certain kinds of christians.
If you are a man and that comment upsets you, then follow the same rule I lay down for 'but I'm one of the good christians'. They are your people. Fix that problem among yourselves. For me and mine, we will go on lumping you all together unless you show that you are not together. REALLY show it by standing up against their behavior.
Is it not possible in elementary school when they take the girls away to tell them about their periods for the boys to be taught how to be respectful and decent to women? Isnt there a filmstrip for that?
If you are a man and that comment upsets you, then follow the same rule I lay down for 'but I'm one of the good christians'. They are your people. Fix that problem among yourselves. For me and mine, we will go on lumping you all together unless you show that you are not together. REALLY show it by standing up against their behavior.
Is it not possible in elementary school when they take the girls away to tell them about their periods for the boys to be taught how to be respectful and decent to women? Isnt there a filmstrip for that?
22
@16 Absolutely nothing to do with gender. You don't have to believe me. If anything, I was thinking of children's stuff, not women.
@18 True enough, I've only seen the stuff that shows up in my Facebook feed, so if she has more informative stuff, I haven't seen it.
And okay, maybe I do have to lighten up, but it's just not my thing, man.
@18 True enough, I've only seen the stuff that shows up in my Facebook feed, so if she has more informative stuff, I haven't seen it.
And okay, maybe I do have to lighten up, but it's just not my thing, man.
23
@21 Girl, it sounds like you got issues. Have you had any men in your life? Maybe you should look into this? It's not normal to hate men like that. We're good, normal people. Like women. I promise.
24
@23 - I'm sure you are. Good, normal people that benefit, whether you like it or not, from the systemic disadvantages women face in most professional fields. Don't tell us you're not on board with that; tell your bosses and congressmen. (Also, dismissing 21's concerns with a patronizing, half-hearted attempt at psychoanalysis and suggesting that she has somehow managed not to meet anyone in a group that makes up approximately half the world's population ain't helping.)
26
@3: "with desire to find a woman they can relate to"
A desire that has nothing to do with actually relating to the woman and treating her as a human being.
A desire that has nothing to do with actually relating to the woman and treating her as a human being.
27
Although there are many worthy candidates (Senator/Professor Elizabeth Warren, and the lady scientist/whistleblower who was legally reinstated at the EPA, no thanks to Drone Master Obama and his ilk), U.S. District Judge Susan Illston is the official winner!
"U.S. District Judge Susan Illston ordered the government to stop issuing so-called NSLs across the board, in a stunning defeat for the Obama administration’s surveillance practices. She also ordered the government to cease enforcing the gag provision in any other cases. However, she stayed her order for 90 days to give the government a chance to appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals."
A clear violation of both the Fourth and First Amendments (US Constitution), these are best represented by an exchange between the Jacob Appelbaum (posing the obvious question) and the FBI's deputy general counsel, giving her feeble and chilling answer in response to Mr. Appelbaum's question (a WikiLeaks' volunteer, Jacob has done much to promote awareness of Big Brother Online):
"How am I supposed to go to a judge if the third party is gagged from telling me that I'm targeted by you?"
Her answer: "There are times when we have to have those things in place."
The vid for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTuxoLDnm…
And why is this soooo important:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/07…
The lack of court oversight raises the possibility for extensive abuse of NSLs under the cover of secrecy, which the gag order only exacerbates. In 2007 a Justice Department Inspector General audit found that the FBI had indeed abused its authority and misused NSLs on many occasions. After 9/11, for example, the FBI paid multimillion-dollar contracts to AT&T and Verizon requiring the companies to station employees inside the FBI and to give these employees access to the telecom databases so they could immediately service FBI requests for telephone records. The IG found that the employees let FBI agents illegally look at customer records without paperwork and even wrote NSLs for the FBI.
And another explanatory paragraph:
NSLs are a powerful tool because they do not require court approval, and they come with a built-in gag order, preventing recipients from disclosing to anyone that they have even received an NSL. An FBI agent looking into a possible anti-terrorism case can self-issue an NSL to a credit bureau, ISP or phone company with only the sign-off of the Special Agent in Charge of their office. The FBI has to merely assert that the information is “relevant” to an investigation into international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.
Source article/site:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03…
Ultra-secret national security letters that come with a gag order on the recipient are an unconstitutional impingement on free speech, a federal judge in California ruled in a decision released Friday.
But wait, what is awaiting us in the very near future (actually presently in place)?????
From Kevin D. Haggerty's Surveillance and Democracy book:
The latest addition to these databases is the Nokia Siemens Intelligence Platform, a monster data-warehousing suite integrating all sorts of data sets: mobile-phone and internet logs, credit-card and bank-account transactions, car registry and DNA databases, road-traffic data, phone-card transcripts, chat protocols, health and insurance data.
(Also known as “intelligence in a box”!)
Automated intelligence operations at all levels. How very very kewl for the bad guys, especially since this is being marketed in China, the USA, the Middle East and Asia (primarily to the most totalitarian countries).
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/techno…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/20…
More...
Super-Woman of the Year ! ! !
Although there are many worthy candidates (Senator/Professor Elizabeth Warren, and the lady scientist/whistleblower who was legally reinstated at the EPA, no thanks to Drone Master Obama and his ilk), U.S. District Judge Susan Illston is the official winner!
"U.S. District Judge Susan Illston ordered the government to stop issuing so-called NSLs across the board, in a stunning defeat for the Obama administration’s surveillance practices. She also ordered the government to cease enforcing the gag provision in any other cases. However, she stayed her order for 90 days to give the government a chance to appeal to the Ninth Circuit Court of Appeals."
A clear violation of both the Fourth and First Amendments (US Constitution), these are best represented by an exchange between the Jacob Appelbaum (posing the obvious question) and the FBI's deputy general counsel, giving her feeble and chilling answer in response to Mr. Appelbaum's question (a WikiLeaks' volunteer, Jacob has done much to promote awareness of Big Brother Online):
"How am I supposed to go to a judge if the third party is gagged from telling me that I'm targeted by you?"
Her answer: "There are times when we have to have those things in place."
The vid for your viewing pleasure:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTuxoLDnm…
And why is this soooo important:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2012/07…
The lack of court oversight raises the possibility for extensive abuse of NSLs under the cover of secrecy, which the gag order only exacerbates. In 2007 a Justice Department Inspector General audit found that the FBI had indeed abused its authority and misused NSLs on many occasions. After 9/11, for example, the FBI paid multimillion-dollar contracts to AT&T and Verizon requiring the companies to station employees inside the FBI and to give these employees access to the telecom databases so they could immediately service FBI requests for telephone records. The IG found that the employees let FBI agents illegally look at customer records without paperwork and even wrote NSLs for the FBI.
And another explanatory paragraph:
NSLs are a powerful tool because they do not require court approval, and they come with a built-in gag order, preventing recipients from disclosing to anyone that they have even received an NSL. An FBI agent looking into a possible anti-terrorism case can self-issue an NSL to a credit bureau, ISP or phone company with only the sign-off of the Special Agent in Charge of their office. The FBI has to merely assert that the information is “relevant” to an investigation into international terrorism or clandestine intelligence activities.
Source article/site:
http://www.wired.com/threatlevel/2013/03…
Ultra-secret national security letters that come with a gag order on the recipient are an unconstitutional impingement on free speech, a federal judge in California ruled in a decision released Friday.
But wait, what is awaiting us in the very near future (actually presently in place)?????
From Kevin D. Haggerty's Surveillance and Democracy book:
The latest addition to these databases is the Nokia Siemens Intelligence Platform, a monster data-warehousing suite integrating all sorts of data sets: mobile-phone and internet logs, credit-card and bank-account transactions, car registry and DNA databases, road-traffic data, phone-card transcripts, chat protocols, health and insurance data.
(Also known as “intelligence in a box”!)
Automated intelligence operations at all levels. How very very kewl for the bad guys, especially since this is being marketed in China, the USA, the Middle East and Asia (primarily to the most totalitarian countries).
http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/techno…
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/20…
28
Go to Science Blogs and see how many women are bloggers there. This should not have been a big deal. Just sayin'.
29
@28: Those wide-eyed machildren do not actually ~read~ scienceblogs. These are people who consume Facebook/Reddit/4Chan meme factories.
30
@21 If you look at that FB comment thread, you'll see that many men came out and said they were impressed with her site and were not at all surprised that she is a woman. In the last several hundred posts, many more men came out to chide people (and sometimes themselves) for being surprised that she was a woman than concentrated on her looks or were otherwise offensive.
You are picking the wrong people to listen to, and using them to pass judgement on the entire group while ignoring the positive examples.
You are picking the wrong people to listen to, and using them to pass judgement on the entire group while ignoring the positive examples.
31
Saying "holy shit! That smart person is a woman????" is "not sexist" in the same way that saying "Holy Shit! That good basketball player is white????" is "not racist".
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