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News & ArtsSunday, March 17, 2013
Animals This Seems Like a Legitimate Use of Drone Technology
Posted by Dan Savage on Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 10:30 AM
Why don't we use them to protect elephants from poachers?
There is nothing a mother elephant will not do for her infant, but even she cannot protect it from bullets. About a year ago, poachers attacked a family of forest elephants in central Africa. The biologist who witnessed the attack told us that wildlife guards were completely outgunned. In the end, an elephant mother, riddled with bullets and trumpeting with pain and fear, was left to use her enormous body to shield her baby. Her sacrifice was for naught; the baby was also killed.... This mother and child were just two of the tens of thousands of forest elephants that have been butchered over the past decade. A staggering 62 percent vanished from central Africa between 2002 and 2011, according to a study we have just published with 60 other scientists in the journal PLoS One. It was the largest such study ever conducted in the central African forests, where elephants are being poached out of existence for their ivory.
1
It's not fair to the poachers or something? I don't know, I don't get the objections to drones in the first place.
2
I remember back in the late 80's when the Kenya Wildlife Service, World Wildlife Fund, and others had a media event consisting of a giant bonfire of many tons of confiscated elephant ivory, and basically proclaimed the death of the black market. At the time, forest elephants were little-known to the outside world, and the Congo Basin was largely left to its own devices. Anybody see a possible connection between limited success protecting the savannah elephants of East Africa and what's happening now (besides the economic turmoil and civil wars going on in Central Africa, I mean)?
Twenty-five years on, and there has been no significant dent in the market for either elephant ivory or rhino horn, used as bullshit "boner pills" in Asian medicine as well as bullshit ceremonial dagger handles in Yemeni culture (a coming-of-age accoutrement). In fact, growing wealth in Asia and the Arabian Peninsula has hugely increased demand.
The only hope is a rapid increase of self-directed environmental organizations in those countries. U.S.- and European-based ones are mostly too corpulent and self-satisfied here to be effective there.
Twenty-five years on, and there has been no significant dent in the market for either elephant ivory or rhino horn, used as bullshit "boner pills" in Asian medicine as well as bullshit ceremonial dagger handles in Yemeni culture (a coming-of-age accoutrement). In fact, growing wealth in Asia and the Arabian Peninsula has hugely increased demand.
The only hope is a rapid increase of self-directed environmental organizations in those countries. U.S.- and European-based ones are mostly too corpulent and self-satisfied here to be effective there.
4
So if you declare someone a terrorist in secret, then kill them without trial, that raises concerns? But if you declare someone a poacher in secret and kill them without trial, that's OK. Because poachers are bad.
Or is it just surveillance? Because if you fly around in the sky taking pictures of people who you think might be burglars or smugglers or terrorists, that's an invasion of privacy. But if you're doing the same thing because you think they might be poachers, that's not an invasion of privacy? Because poachers are bad.
In fact, the problems of justice and civil liberty are still there no matter how bad of a crime (the government says) the target might be contemplating.
Or is it just surveillance? Because if you fly around in the sky taking pictures of people who you think might be burglars or smugglers or terrorists, that's an invasion of privacy. But if you're doing the same thing because you think they might be poachers, that's not an invasion of privacy? Because poachers are bad.
In fact, the problems of justice and civil liberty are still there no matter how bad of a crime (the government says) the target might be contemplating.
5
Absolutely tragic. Sickening. You'd think as a species, we'd be beyond this shit by now, right? How sad, that in fact there seems no limit to the depths of human stupidity, and inhuman behavior.
And 4, I don't think Dan *actually* meant poachers should *actually* be droned, however I can certainly identify with the desire to do this to people who do inexplicably evil things.
Absolutely tragic. Sickening. You'd think as a species, we'd be beyond this shit by now, right? How sad, that in fact there seems no limit to the depths of human stupidity, and inhuman behavior.
And 4, I don't think Dan *actually* meant poachers should *actually* be droned, however I can certainly identify with the desire to do this to people who do inexplicably evil things.
6
Ooh! Is there a way that drone technology would help? If so, then YES. DO THIS. Rain down rubber bullets upon them. Hm. Rubber bullets would probably still be lethal at that velocity...
But I disagree with the Lovecraft fan in @4. Sending drones around to take pictures of crimes in progress or people trespassing on protected land would be just fine. Going into their living rooms to take pictures is an invasion of privacy, but if they're out in public then that's another matter. Drug stores use security footage to prevent shoplifting. They're not allowed to use their customers' images in art or ads, but they're allowed to use it for security purposes.
But I disagree with the Lovecraft fan in @4. Sending drones around to take pictures of crimes in progress or people trespassing on protected land would be just fine. Going into their living rooms to take pictures is an invasion of privacy, but if they're out in public then that's another matter. Drug stores use security footage to prevent shoplifting. They're not allowed to use their customers' images in art or ads, but they're allowed to use it for security purposes.
7
I think the libertarians are right on this one. The only way to save these elephants from extinction is to make ivory farms where animals are raised in captivity to produce ivory. The same applies for rhinoceros horns.
8
Why not stain their tusks so they are useless. Or cut them down and bolt stainless steal tusks in their place. Or just remove them from females altogether. There are a lot of things that could be done. But we need to do something!
9
@7
Then I suppose you, and those libertarians you mention, haven't taken five minutes to pencil out the cost of breeding and rearing an elephant. Or a rhino.
Then I suppose you, and those libertarians you mention, haven't taken five minutes to pencil out the cost of breeding and rearing an elephant. Or a rhino.
10
Drones are $200. GoPros are $200-400.
Why don't you buy them yourselves and donate them to the wildlife guards?
Why don't you buy them yourselves and donate them to the wildlife guards?
11
@9: Rhino horn right now is worth more than its weight in gold. The raising of elephants or rhinos as farm animals in a protected game reserve is feasible, especially rhinos since their horns can be periodically shaved over their lives. And Buddhists have historically used domesticated elephants for ivory production.
12
Powerful White master dropping bombs on Black men from the air to protect Elephants. Hmmm let me think, could anything go wrong with this plan?
13
@11
OK then, sounds like a risk-free investment, then.
I'm sure rhino horn will maintain its current price in a nice, legal, libertarian deregulated market.
OK then, sounds like a risk-free investment, then.
I'm sure rhino horn will maintain its current price in a nice, legal, libertarian deregulated market.
15
@13: You should hope the price plummets. If that happens then people aren't going to be creating armies to kill these animals, because it won't be worth it.
In any case, it will always be feasible to raise these animals for their horns or tusks, even if the prices aren't at their premium values like they are today. And even if it weren't, I would support modest subsidies to prevent the poaching of the wild population. Additionally, these tusks could be sold in a way similar to conflict free diamonds.
What isn't feasible is ignoring the exponential rise in poaching that has already made the Western Black Rhino extinct. It is basic economics. The price of ivory and rhino horn has skyrocketed. You can either suffer the tragedy of the commons or you can be clever.
In any case, it will always be feasible to raise these animals for their horns or tusks, even if the prices aren't at their premium values like they are today. And even if it weren't, I would support modest subsidies to prevent the poaching of the wild population. Additionally, these tusks could be sold in a way similar to conflict free diamonds.
What isn't feasible is ignoring the exponential rise in poaching that has already made the Western Black Rhino extinct. It is basic economics. The price of ivory and rhino horn has skyrocketed. You can either suffer the tragedy of the commons or you can be clever.
16
In which we send you back to read @9 again.
Ranching has fixed costs, and you can't magick them away with free-market hot air. There's a reason we don't farm coral, tortoiseshell, redwood, and any number of other animal and plant products with production costs too high to make it worthwhile at market prices.
The animals we do raise for profit are generally harvested after at most 2 years. At that age, an elephant tusk would be less than a foot long (and two years of elephant feed is quite a bit more than two years of cow feed!).
Demand for ivory and rhino horn is not a new thing in the world. If ranching for that market were remotely feasible, it would have been well established centuries ago, if not sooner.
it will always be feasible to raise these animals for their horns or tusks, even if the prices aren't at their premium values
In which we send you back to read @9 again.
Ranching has fixed costs, and you can't magick them away with free-market hot air. There's a reason we don't farm coral, tortoiseshell, redwood, and any number of other animal and plant products with production costs too high to make it worthwhile at market prices.
The animals we do raise for profit are generally harvested after at most 2 years. At that age, an elephant tusk would be less than a foot long (and two years of elephant feed is quite a bit more than two years of cow feed!).
Demand for ivory and rhino horn is not a new thing in the world. If ranching for that market were remotely feasible, it would have been well established centuries ago, if not sooner.
17
As bad as these poachers are I don't think they are a direct threat to the United States in the way that Anwar al-Awlaki was. I think our only realistic hope to save the elephants is to pursued the Chinese to stop buying their ivory.
18
If North Korea can be boycotted for its nuclear program, why not pressure the UN to boycott China for its lack of restrictions on the importation of illegal elephant ivory, rhino horn and precious tropical hardwoods, that are leading to the extinction of all of them. Dry up the market and the poachers will no longer have an income.
21
"...you can be clever." How about materials scientists figuring out how to create unlimited cultured ivory by laying down the mineral (mostly hydroxylapatite, same as teeth and bone) and other components, using 3D printers, in blocks that can be cut to size? You could even introduce color striations and other imperfections to mimic the natural material. That way you don't eliminate the ivory-carving trade. Nations (or UNEP) could even subsidize production, to force the price of natural ivory down so far as to be worthless to poachers. And the land and raw materials for "farmed" ivory would be available for other uses, including protected habitat for remaining wildlife.
Rhino horn? Maybe something similar--have people save their nail clippings (keratin, same as rhino horn) voluntarily and send them in once a year to be engineered into "norn" or "forn" faux-rhino-horn, if it can't be created via tissue culture or 3D printing.
If we can make Chicken McNuggets with the leavings from the slaughterhouse floor and use everything from a pig but the oink, to give just two examples, we ought to be able to manage the above.
Rhino horn? Maybe something similar--have people save their nail clippings (keratin, same as rhino horn) voluntarily and send them in once a year to be engineered into "norn" or "forn" faux-rhino-horn, if it can't be created via tissue culture or 3D printing.
If we can make Chicken McNuggets with the leavings from the slaughterhouse floor and use everything from a pig but the oink, to give just two examples, we ought to be able to manage the above.
22
Sad: http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read…
It's interesting how the repulsiveness of the bad guys changes our tolerance for drone surveillance and assassination. Personally, my first target would be genocide, which I think is worse than poaching or terrorism. But again, if the public says we'll tolerate extrajudicial assassination in the case of genocide, then all the president has to do is say they guys he's knocking off are guilty of genocide. The whole point is that without an open trial we have no way of knowing who's being killed or why. It's irrelevant how much we hate the ostensible crime.
I don't automatically object to surveillance of public places, but the thought of my every move being recorded every time I step out of my home is abhorrent. We don't want to live like that. There needs to be limits.
I don't think it's possible to help African wildlife while not giving a shit about African people. You can't sit by and let a country go to hell and then bend over backwards to help elephants. White people who care more about animals than black people are bad.
It's interesting how the repulsiveness of the bad guys changes our tolerance for drone surveillance and assassination. Personally, my first target would be genocide, which I think is worse than poaching or terrorism. But again, if the public says we'll tolerate extrajudicial assassination in the case of genocide, then all the president has to do is say they guys he's knocking off are guilty of genocide. The whole point is that without an open trial we have no way of knowing who's being killed or why. It's irrelevant how much we hate the ostensible crime.
I don't automatically object to surveillance of public places, but the thought of my every move being recorded every time I step out of my home is abhorrent. We don't want to live like that. There needs to be limits.
I don't think it's possible to help African wildlife while not giving a shit about African people. You can't sit by and let a country go to hell and then bend over backwards to help elephants. White people who care more about animals than black people are bad.
23
God, part of me wants to dedicate my life to stopping climate change before civilization collapses. The other part of me thinks that humanity isn't worth the effort. Unfortunately, we're taking out everything else except the cockroaches and pigeons either way.
24
By the way, Ken Goddard and colleagues at the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Forensic Laboratory figured out years ago how to identify various sources of ivory microscopically: elephant, extinct mammoth, narwhal, walrus, sperm-whale teeth, etc.:
http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/pub/E…
More grist for reverse-engineering cultured products.
http://www.cites.org/eng/resources/pub/E…
More grist for reverse-engineering cultured products.
25
Thanks for that link, @22.
I basically agree with your other points (@3 was snark, in case that wasn't apparent), but specifically with regard to your last paragraph, it's worth noting that in some important ways, helping wildlife IS helping people, in Africa and worldwide. It's simply a fact, regrettable though it may be, that it's easier to get first-worlders riled up about the plight of wildlife than about people; the challenge is to channel that concern in ways that help both and don't inadvertently do further damage to either.
I basically agree with your other points (@3 was snark, in case that wasn't apparent), but specifically with regard to your last paragraph, it's worth noting that in some important ways, helping wildlife IS helping people, in Africa and worldwide. It's simply a fact, regrettable though it may be, that it's easier to get first-worlders riled up about the plight of wildlife than about people; the challenge is to channel that concern in ways that help both and don't inadvertently do further damage to either.
26
@25 That's because people who live in failed states are, to some extent, responsible for their unfortunate circumstances. This is not true of the poor elephants.
27
To my surprise (just because it's been a good long while), Ken Goddard is still the director of the F&WS Lab in Ashland, OR. Here's a fairly recent news story on him from the Oregonian:
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf…
He also writes crime fiction.
http://www.oregonlive.com/news/index.ssf…
He also writes crime fiction.
28
@16:
Demand for ivory and rhino horn is not a new thing in the world.Actually, the demand for rhino horn has risen dramatically as a Chinese middle class develops that can afford it. This is not a stable problem where you have a lot of time to deal with it. It is a new problem.
29
@26, of course it's the elephants' fault. They have failed to take up arms and protect themselves, unlike another savannah dweller.
30
@28 I don't know about rhinos, but people have been investigating the possibility of domesticating the elephant for centuries. Elephants are sociable and intelligent creatures that can be trained to work closely w/ human handlers. In pre-industrial times they were very useful as beasts of burden and weapons of war. The trouble is it takes a baby elephant about 15 years to grow up, by contrast a horse reaches maturity in only two years and a camel in five. Thus elephants have never been bred in captivity on a large scale.
31
So if you declare someone a terrorist in secret, then kill them without trial, that raises concerns? But if you declare someone a poacher in secret and kill them without trial, that's OK. Because poachers are bad.
Don't hang out with terrorists in a foreign land and don't walk into an African national wildlife reserve with a rifle and the drones will leave you alone.
32
Right, Sikorski?
I see no one has mentioned the gun industry. Poaching wouldn't be such an issue - really, a lot of problems wouldn't be such an issue - if we weren't so flooded with guns, specially powerful, quick firing rifles. It's a lot harder to drive a big game species into extinction with spears and arrows (the way we used to do this).
And BTW, I have never been opposed to civilian surveillance using drones and cameras. To me, it's not controversial at all, and I bet a lot of folks feel like I feel. Indeed, I wish there was more of it.
I see no one has mentioned the gun industry. Poaching wouldn't be such an issue - really, a lot of problems wouldn't be such an issue - if we weren't so flooded with guns, specially powerful, quick firing rifles. It's a lot harder to drive a big game species into extinction with spears and arrows (the way we used to do this).
And BTW, I have never been opposed to civilian surveillance using drones and cameras. To me, it's not controversial at all, and I bet a lot of folks feel like I feel. Indeed, I wish there was more of it.
33
@21: That's a great idea, really, and someone should look into it. Ivory is a beautiful substance, but cutting it out of a sapient being's mangled corpse is barbaric beyond reason. If we could grow synthetic ivory, culture bear bile glands in the lab, et cetera et cetera...
34
Here's an idea. Flood the black market with fake ivory to undermine the trade. The demand for new ivory and prices will be lowered, then once buyers realize there's a lot of fake ivory floating around they'll lose confidence in the market. I have no idea how this would actually work, but it seems like a fine idea. Along with the poacher drone strikes, of course. It's a two-pronged approach.
36
Hell, China is just utterly fucked up when it comes to human rights issues. Animals aren't even on their radar.
37
Maybe Dan could ask some of the people in Iraq (his favorite U.S. target country) how they like drones flying around over them all the time. Terrorists are probably just lurking everywhere there. WMDs too.
No. I forgot. There WERE no WMDs. I don't think there were any terrorists then either. But there probably are some now, thanks to Dan's war.
No. I forgot. There WERE no WMDs. I don't think there were any terrorists then either. But there probably are some now, thanks to Dan's war.
39
@31, are you serious?
You do remember that bin Laden was hiding out in a nice Pakistani suburb, unknown to many of the people living there?
It's bad enough to kill terrorists (sorry, people we kind of think might be terrorists) without having to, you know, prove to a judge that we know for sure that they're terrorists. But just balls-out shooting anybody who happens to be standing near them (or standing near where we think they might be)?
Something tells me that that kind of policy miiiiight help to explain why terrorists have such an easy time recruiting people who want to kill us.
You do remember that bin Laden was hiding out in a nice Pakistani suburb, unknown to many of the people living there?
It's bad enough to kill terrorists (sorry, people we kind of think might be terrorists) without having to, you know, prove to a judge that we know for sure that they're terrorists. But just balls-out shooting anybody who happens to be standing near them (or standing near where we think they might be)?
Something tells me that that kind of policy miiiiight help to explain why terrorists have such an easy time recruiting people who want to kill us.
40
We should be designing quality fake ivory and rhino horn, flooding the market at low prices, and making it legal to lie about whether a product is fake or real horn.
41
Bad plans. It's not like drones use machine guns - they use BOMBS. (missiles are just flying bombs). You want to drop bombs in the forests and jungles in order to save elephants? What could go wrong?
42
There are plenty of small, unarmed, inexpensive, and off-the-shelf drones that could be used for this kind of surveillance work (though given the terrain of the habitat of forest elephants, drones would definitely work much better at keeping an eye on and protecting elephants that live on plains and deserts).
And yes, as others have observed: blame China. They are by far the largest source of demand for illegal ivory. While their attitudes are reportedly beginning to change, it is fair to observe that the Chinese have a lamentably widespread indifference to the plight of endangered species. The giant panda is a notable exception to that generalization, but that can be attributed to many years of education and propaganda regarding China's own signature superstar species.
And yes, as others have observed: blame China. They are by far the largest source of demand for illegal ivory. While their attitudes are reportedly beginning to change, it is fair to observe that the Chinese have a lamentably widespread indifference to the plight of endangered species. The giant panda is a notable exception to that generalization, but that can be attributed to many years of education and propaganda regarding China's own signature superstar species.
44
@39 Drones: 800 dead. Pakistani Taliban: Over 40 000 dead.
Pakistan, a half-failed state whose only way to keep its nukes from the Taliban is to finance them. The same asshole Pakis who financed the Afghan Talibans who turned the state to utter shit. Yeah, I think the drones is the best realistic solution.
Pakistan, a half-failed state whose only way to keep its nukes from the Taliban is to finance them. The same asshole Pakis who financed the Afghan Talibans who turned the state to utter shit. Yeah, I think the drones is the best realistic solution.
45
@44: Yeah, that's great and all, but what the fuck does it have to do with what I said in my comment?
I didn't object to using drones on military targets in Pakistan (if we can prove that they're actually military targets and not things we kind of think might be military targets). I objected to using them on civilians -- and to using "don't stand near a terrorist" as an acceptable standard to judge who is and who isn't a civillian.
Then again, the fact that you're using the word "Paki" tells me that I might be wasting my breath.
I didn't object to using drones on military targets in Pakistan (if we can prove that they're actually military targets and not things we kind of think might be military targets). I objected to using them on civilians -- and to using "don't stand near a terrorist" as an acceptable standard to judge who is and who isn't a civillian.
Then again, the fact that you're using the word "Paki" tells me that I might be wasting my breath.
46
We're not in any danger of running out of people, but we are in danger of running out of some of these species. I say shoot poachers--they'll make more. And how about we educate some of those Chinese people so they quit believing 10th century bullshit? If they want to be world players, then them be as cynical as the rest of us.
47
@46: if the US had any control whatsoever over whether or not China gets to become a world player-- or what Chinese people do and don't get educated about -- then the world would be a veeerrrry different place.
49
@4
I am in total agreement with you.
This also reminds me of how Dan Savage/The Stranger thought that the Iraq War was legitimate.
I am in total agreement with you.
This also reminds me of how Dan Savage/The Stranger thought that the Iraq War was legitimate.
50
@49,
And clearly you had nothing but cultural sensitivity in mind when you said "those same asshole Pakis..." I can't imagine how I managed to see that as deragatory!
And clearly you had nothing but cultural sensitivity in mind when you said "those same asshole Pakis..." I can't imagine how I managed to see that as deragatory!
52
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