Slog
News & ArtsSunday, March 17, 2013
News Sunday Morning News
Posted by Unpaid Intern on Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 8:09 AM
Posted by news intern Jocelyn Macdonald
Guilty: Steubenville judge agrees with everyone decent on the Internet.
Just One More Benefit to High Speed Rail: Early victims of the Black Death were unearthed alongside 14th century pottery while digging new rail lines in London.
Coffee and Cigarettes: A new study finds that drinking coffee is connected to reduced risk for Parkinson's, stroke, and heart disease. Researchers believe that the health risks currently associated with coffee stem from the fact that coffee-drinking subjects from previous studies were also heavy smokers.
#fuckshitup: Matthew Keys, Reuters journalist is accused of encouraging Anonymous hackers to "fuck some shit up" on the homepage of his former employer, the LA Times, as well as giving them the login codes they would need to do so.
Green Jobs: The Port of Willapa hopes its sawmill will be the site of a marijuana grow operation when I-502's regulatory kinks get worked out.
Washingtonians Math It Up: It's tough to challenge Paul Ryan, the self-described "numbers guy," but Washingtonians in both houses are doing their best. The Dems, led by Patty Murray, put out a totally boring budget, while the Progressive Caucus, including Jim McDermott in the budget committee, put out a ballsy budget that would increase spending by $544 billion dollars (Full disclosure: my sister works for Jim McDermott. Further disclosure: it's her birthday today!).
A Forest of Sediment, an Armageddon of Kelp The Elwha is surprising scientists by releasing 41 times percent more sediment than was expected following dam removal. This Seattle Times article has some great metaphors for the whole process.
I'll Have the Tofu: Over 12,000 pigs are clogging up the main waterways of Shanghai and Jiaxing.
2
uhmmm, read the Times' Elwha River article more carefully, please:
Scientists recently learned there was about 41 percent more sediment trapped behind the dams than originally thought —
41% is NOT the same as "41 times."
Scientists recently learned there was about 41 percent more sediment trapped behind the dams than originally thought —
41% is NOT the same as "41 times."
3
Paul Ryan gave the Republican weekly address. He repeated the right's weekly lies that the American family balances their budget and so should government. The average American household has credit card debt, just credit card debt, over $7,000.00! That's not including home loans and car loans. Paul Ryan is ridiculous.
5
Sunday verdict! And it's the right one! I wonder how many congregations prayed today for the rapists to be acquitted.
Anyone know Mike DeWine? He's the AG of Ohio quoted in the story. I thought there was a US Senator by the name of DeWine a while ago, but I don't recall what party. He's convening a grand jury to investigate whether criminal charges should be filed against people who knew of but did not report the rapes, but I wonder how serious he is about it.
Anyone know Mike DeWine? He's the AG of Ohio quoted in the story. I thought there was a US Senator by the name of DeWine a while ago, but I don't recall what party. He's convening a grand jury to investigate whether criminal charges should be filed against people who knew of but did not report the rapes, but I wonder how serious he is about it.
6
@5: yeah, Mike DeWine, AG, is that DeWine, former republican OH senator, who was handily booted out by the awesome Sherrod Brown in 2006.
DeWine, while conservative on most social issues (e.g., abortion), can be unpredictable and moderate on some: he opposed Ohio's constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage in 2004 and that same year co-sponsored the bill to renew the automatic weapons ban in 2004.
DeWine, while conservative on most social issues (e.g., abortion), can be unpredictable and moderate on some: he opposed Ohio's constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage in 2004 and that same year co-sponsored the bill to renew the automatic weapons ban in 2004.
7
My first instinct is to express disgust that these two idiots got away with a 4 year jail sentence. Even forty years would seem too light, as they even bragged about it on the internet after having committed the crime. Something tells me that somebody so lacking in empathy is likely to re-offend. As minors, they are somewhat limited in the harm they can cause to other people. Once adults, they will probably cause so much worse harm.
That said, I'm not convinced that the discipline-and-punish model does much to deter criminal activity. Nor does the Department of Corrections "Correct" any errant behavior, given the high rate of recidivism. A penitentiary is supposed to make one penitent, but can you really make anyone feel sorry for what they've done? You can't really make anyone feel anything, and remorse, if it is to be genuine, must come from within. The affected remorse that is worn like a mask to escape further abuse isn't real. You cannot reform human behavior simply by locking people up. this is evidenced by our country's violent crime rates, which rise in spite of our incarcerating a greater proportion of our population than any other on Earth.
So what would be a better course? I don't know. I just know that these two monsters aren't going to become decent citizens when they emerge from jail in four years. In fact, after so much time in the company of murderers, serial sex offenders, and the like they are probably going to learn how to do much worse than they've already done.
That said, I'm not convinced that the discipline-and-punish model does much to deter criminal activity. Nor does the Department of Corrections "Correct" any errant behavior, given the high rate of recidivism. A penitentiary is supposed to make one penitent, but can you really make anyone feel sorry for what they've done? You can't really make anyone feel anything, and remorse, if it is to be genuine, must come from within. The affected remorse that is worn like a mask to escape further abuse isn't real. You cannot reform human behavior simply by locking people up. this is evidenced by our country's violent crime rates, which rise in spite of our incarcerating a greater proportion of our population than any other on Earth.
So what would be a better course? I don't know. I just know that these two monsters aren't going to become decent citizens when they emerge from jail in four years. In fact, after so much time in the company of murderers, serial sex offenders, and the like they are probably going to learn how to do much worse than they've already done.
8
#7 - get a grip. They're young enough to realize the stupidity and immorality of their actions. I'm not saying they will, because unlike you, my crystal ball isnt working today. But they certainly can. And if they decide to stop drinking, that'll go a long way towards ensuring this doesn't happen again. You really want to send a 16 year old boy to prison for 40+ years? That's easily as monstrous as anything they've done. (And yes, of course they've committed a horrible act. No argument.)
9
The Black Death victims were digging rail? Seems impossible. (You & Cienna sure love those dangling modifiers!)
11
@7, I usually agree with you here on SLOG, but not in this case.
These guys are 16 & 17. Their brains are not fully developed. Teenagers are often much more self-centered than fully developed adults. Children (even teenagers) have a much higher chance of being rehabilitated than adult offenders. That is why we generally don't sentence children the same way as adults, why they are typically released when they reach 18 or 21, and why their records are wiped or sealed. It doesn't work every time, of course, but the odds are much higher for kids than adult offenders.
I'm not trying to excuse these assholes, nor am I trying to suggest that they don't deserve a stiff punishment. I'm just saying that your assertion that they can't be rehabilitated is wrong. And as minors, they won't be incarcerated with adult murderers and sex offenders.
I think your prediction that they will cause much more harm when they are released probably comes more from your own anger and disgust in their crime, and not from any actual knowledge of adolescent development or minors in the criminal justice system.
These guys are 16 & 17. Their brains are not fully developed. Teenagers are often much more self-centered than fully developed adults. Children (even teenagers) have a much higher chance of being rehabilitated than adult offenders. That is why we generally don't sentence children the same way as adults, why they are typically released when they reach 18 or 21, and why their records are wiped or sealed. It doesn't work every time, of course, but the odds are much higher for kids than adult offenders.
I'm not trying to excuse these assholes, nor am I trying to suggest that they don't deserve a stiff punishment. I'm just saying that your assertion that they can't be rehabilitated is wrong. And as minors, they won't be incarcerated with adult murderers and sex offenders.
I think your prediction that they will cause much more harm when they are released probably comes more from your own anger and disgust in their crime, and not from any actual knowledge of adolescent development or minors in the criminal justice system.
12
@3: Budgets are important for families, but critical for businesses and government.
Because of war and catastrophes, a government should not be required to balance its budget - nevertheless a budget passed by the Congress and signed into law by the President is good for the economy.
Because of war and catastrophes, a government should not be required to balance its budget - nevertheless a budget passed by the Congress and signed into law by the President is good for the economy.
15
@14, an anecdote or two do not disprove whole research studies. I did not say that it works every time, only that the success rate of rehabilitating minors is much greater than adults, and that this is in part due to incomplete brain development of adolescents.
16
The funny thing about the horrifying pig carcass rivers of China is that it's possibly a sign of progress: not long ago, there would have been no trouble getting diseased animals and other meat unfit for human consumption into China's food chain, and so those carcasses would have been far too valuable to dump. Now, there is a little bit of consumer protection (but little or no environmental protection), so the pork producers dump them rather than try to slip them into the food supply.
17
Take a step back, people. The reason that Steubenville hit the news had very little to do w/ the horrible drunken escapades that night. It had to do w/ the atmosphere in Steubenville before & after. This was a town w/ all its accompanying power structure that had set these kids up to think that they could do anything & their lusts would be forgiven. It had occurred before, w/ girls raped and the various adults responsible did their best to make sure justice wasn't served. Sadly, in those cases, there was no internet trail.
Misanthrope, if you want to come up w/ an analogous situation, it's the RCC. The perps were priests, not HS football players, but those empowered to administer justice sided w/ the rapists and not the victims.
The two jagoffs will go through life w/ this & blah blah blah. This is just the first part. The job now is as AG says, removing the sick rot that existed in that town that put the jocks on pedestals far beyond the norm. What's sad is that they can't go after the sick-fuck adults who encouraged the rapes. But they sure as hell can go after the coaches & cops & school admins who looked the other way when this shit went down. THAT is the real story, and we haven't reached the end.
Misanthrope, if you want to come up w/ an analogous situation, it's the RCC. The perps were priests, not HS football players, but those empowered to administer justice sided w/ the rapists and not the victims.
The two jagoffs will go through life w/ this & blah blah blah. This is just the first part. The job now is as AG says, removing the sick rot that existed in that town that put the jocks on pedestals far beyond the norm. What's sad is that they can't go after the sick-fuck adults who encouraged the rapes. But they sure as hell can go after the coaches & cops & school admins who looked the other way when this shit went down. THAT is the real story, and we haven't reached the end.
18
Why is President Obama withholding the release of more than 50,000 pages of JFK assassination-related documents?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla…
http://www.disinfo.com/2013/03/jfk-will-…
(Because David Rockefeller still lives, most unfortunately?)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=pla…
http://www.disinfo.com/2013/03/jfk-will-…
(Because David Rockefeller still lives, most unfortunately?)
19
and the original site:
http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/03/15/tvwho-o…
Why is this important? Because it is the originating point or nexus of where we are today!
http://whowhatwhy.com/2013/03/15/tvwho-o…
Why is this important? Because it is the originating point or nexus of where we are today!
20
Well, CNN has come out on the side of the rapists. Seriously.
http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/candy-c…
http://crooksandliars.com/karoli/candy-c…
21
11,
i think it's a deeper problem than mere self-centered adolescence. Everyone experiences adolescence if they survive long enough, but not so many go as far as these two. There is something far worse than simple hormonal imbalances within an immature brain taking place here. What it is, I cannot say, as I am not a psychiatrist. What they have done is evil. They have crossed a line that very few cross.
And, if you will read my original post (second paragraph) you will see that I have said that incarceration will not work. My instinct is to say that the death penalty is too good for them. The government has to be better than our individual instincts, however, and the deposition of this case has to be informed by reason rather than passion.
That said, I would like to see the sources of these statistics you mention. A little science might help me overcome the desire to propose that these perpetrators receive a gang rape while in prison, and that video of that gang rape be posted online so their families can experience the horror that this poor girl and her family have been put through. Cite your sources please.
i think it's a deeper problem than mere self-centered adolescence. Everyone experiences adolescence if they survive long enough, but not so many go as far as these two. There is something far worse than simple hormonal imbalances within an immature brain taking place here. What it is, I cannot say, as I am not a psychiatrist. What they have done is evil. They have crossed a line that very few cross.
And, if you will read my original post (second paragraph) you will see that I have said that incarceration will not work. My instinct is to say that the death penalty is too good for them. The government has to be better than our individual instincts, however, and the deposition of this case has to be informed by reason rather than passion.
That said, I would like to see the sources of these statistics you mention. A little science might help me overcome the desire to propose that these perpetrators receive a gang rape while in prison, and that video of that gang rape be posted online so their families can experience the horror that this poor girl and her family have been put through. Cite your sources please.
22
@17 I was not saying that they were analogous situations. I was merely pointing out that Reverse Polarity seems to have an extremely high regard for the recuperating effect of Juvie on youthful criminals, and I countered with two high profile recent exceptions.
RP doesn't bring any stats to the table. He just trusts that we'll believe his so-called stats. I challenge that a fair number of criminals stay criminals, depending on nature of crime.
RP doesn't bring any stats to the table. He just trusts that we'll believe his so-called stats. I challenge that a fair number of criminals stay criminals, depending on nature of crime.
24
@23 What little I could read made it seem like that was a meta-report, and that the analysis reports depended largely on the groups it was analyzing.
But, I could only see 5 pages.
But, I could only see 5 pages.
25
@24: It was the only halfway decent analysis I could find that wasn't behind a paywall.
Two abstracts: http://tpj.sagepub.com/content/78/4/390.… http://cjb.sagepub.com/content/17/1/71.s…
Two abstracts: http://tpj.sagepub.com/content/78/4/390.… http://cjb.sagepub.com/content/17/1/71.s…
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