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News & ArtsFriday, March 15, 2013
Guns I Am "Insane"
Posted by Goldy on Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 2:34 PM
The NRA's Wayne LaPierre says those who favor mandatory background checks may be, quote, "insane."
Because nothing is crazier than suggesting that we should check to see if somebody is legally ineligible to possess a firearm (felon, restraining order, actually insane, etc.) before selling that person a firearm.
4
Depending on whose norms, @1?
Domestic violence is actually the largest predictor of gun violence for women. Until the 70s, most domestic violence was ignored by police.
Domestic violence is actually the largest predictor of gun violence for women. Until the 70s, most domestic violence was ignored by police.
6
Oh, and they lecture the rest of us on "morality" as if there's anything moral about arming criminals and mentally ill.
7
@3 "Desperate much, Wayne?"
Rachel Maddow has posited that the NRA, and by extension, Wayne LaPierre's job is keep people talking about them, rather than directing notice and commentary towards the weapons companies funding them.
Under this frame, he's succeeding wildly.
Rachel Maddow has posited that the NRA, and by extension, Wayne LaPierre's job is keep people talking about them, rather than directing notice and commentary towards the weapons companies funding them.
Under this frame, he's succeeding wildly.
8
You know what's *really* crazy? Focusing on mental health care access in this country as a first step rather than focusing on trying to take away toys. How nuts.
10
In Illinois we at least do things properly to some degree. I was in a psychiatric institution for a week, and as a result I need to pass a formal hearing making a case I'm stable if I ever want to own a gun here.
12
Wayne LaPierre earned $961,000 in 2010, the latest year for which there are records. I'll bet it's double that today.
13
You guys really ought to at least watch the speech before deciding who's sane and who isn't. But of course, you won't.
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/343…
http://www.nationalreview.com/corner/343…
14
@12
That is not that much in comparison to the many non-profits and university executives.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/17/nonprof…
It is certainly a lot less than Mayor Bloomberg and his anti-gun media apparatus.
There is a difference though, Wayne LaPierre was elected by the membership.
That is not that much in comparison to the many non-profits and university executives.
http://www.forbes.com/2009/12/17/nonprof…
It is certainly a lot less than Mayor Bloomberg and his anti-gun media apparatus.
There is a difference though, Wayne LaPierre was elected by the membership.
15
@8: "toys"? you're insane.
@13: really? is it edifying? does he make new, or compelling arguements? is it free of sophistry & tautologies? can you give us the highlights?
@13: really? is it edifying? does he make new, or compelling arguements? is it free of sophistry & tautologies? can you give us the highlights?
16
Goldy,
Where is, and who has, this list of "actually insane people" that you're going to check against?
Where is, and who has, this list of "actually insane people" that you're going to check against?
19
@16 - Sounds like Illinois has a list, based on the comment @10. I'm pretty sure every state keeps records of who they institutionalize.
20
There is nothing unconstitutional about requiring background checks.
Hell there is nothing unconstitutional about requiring a safety class prior to being able to purchase a gun.
Waiting periods are for pussies, make em schedule and sit through a 2 hr course on gun safety, no test no pass fail, then fine go buy your dildo.
Hell there is nothing unconstitutional about requiring a safety class prior to being able to purchase a gun.
Waiting periods are for pussies, make em schedule and sit through a 2 hr course on gun safety, no test no pass fail, then fine go buy your dildo.
21
@19
Every state should because commitment beyond a 3 day hold for evaluation requires a court order. The problem is not every every state has submitted this info to the NICS system as required by the NICS improvement act that the NRA helped pass in 2007.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-s…
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-2923…
Every state should because commitment beyond a 3 day hold for evaluation requires a court order. The problem is not every every state has submitted this info to the NICS system as required by the NICS improvement act that the NRA helped pass in 2007.
http://www.nraila.org/news-issues/fact-s…
http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-250_162-2923…
22
@18: And yet we can spell...
@21: Not true. I was deemed a danger to myself and/or others by a social worker and was forced, under pain of being involuntarily admitted, to admit myself to the institution. No court case or anything. I signed a form demanding to be released the day I went in there, which meant I was out after a week (they have 5 business days to comply).
Only if they'd wanted to keep me longer than 5 business days after demanded a release would they have to take it to court. The only way the state would have records of my being there was if the hospital sent them in specially.
@21: Not true. I was deemed a danger to myself and/or others by a social worker and was forced, under pain of being involuntarily admitted, to admit myself to the institution. No court case or anything. I signed a form demanding to be released the day I went in there, which meant I was out after a week (they have 5 business days to comply).
Only if they'd wanted to keep me longer than 5 business days after demanded a release would they have to take it to court. The only way the state would have records of my being there was if the hospital sent them in specially.
23
@22
I have no need to properly spell the name of the residents of Chit town.
So you were voluntarily committed, not involuntarily committed.
They play that game a lot, then pull the whole, You can leave any time you want, once a doctor says you can. Usually patients will flip out and wind up on an involuntary hold.
Local laws may vary but there should not be any record of your commitment that would affect your civil rights.
Unfortunatly civilrights is not generally on the agenda of those tho run Failinoise as it apears that in your case you were imprisoned without due process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary…
I have no need to properly spell the name of the residents of Chit town.
So you were voluntarily committed, not involuntarily committed.
They play that game a lot, then pull the whole, You can leave any time you want, once a doctor says you can. Usually patients will flip out and wind up on an involuntary hold.
Local laws may vary but there should not be any record of your commitment that would affect your civil rights.
Unfortunatly civilrights is not generally on the agenda of those tho run Failinoise as it apears that in your case you were imprisoned without due process.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Involuntary…
24
@23 Stop talking. You can't even put together a coherent sentence, let alone make a point.
"Due process" is for criminals- and the consequences for them are more permanent and punitive. That's the point of being detained for being gravely mentally disabled- you are stripped of your rights pending investigation, and court ordered for a detention period of x number of days, depending on the state. During that time, you are provided with representation. After that, if you're considered a lost cause, they send you somewhere like Western State, whereby you fucking understand beyond all shadow of a doubt that people with severe mental illness should not be permitted to own firearms if they have psychotic features or have had them in the past.
Even terrified of everyone else, hiding in my room to avoid assault, and viewing the whole rotted system from the inside, I can rationally say that those prior weeks, if I'd had a thought to the gun my roommate showed off in our house at the time I'd gone chronically psychotic, even the idea of pulling the trigger to make loud noise would've been nifty.
Due process. Even if you understood the disjointed word approximations that your mind shits out, you have no concept, no one but a person who has been in a situation that is concentrated, chaotic violence would think for a minute that the idea of allowing them access to firearms is a good idea.
THAT is insane.
"Due process" is for criminals- and the consequences for them are more permanent and punitive. That's the point of being detained for being gravely mentally disabled- you are stripped of your rights pending investigation, and court ordered for a detention period of x number of days, depending on the state. During that time, you are provided with representation. After that, if you're considered a lost cause, they send you somewhere like Western State, whereby you fucking understand beyond all shadow of a doubt that people with severe mental illness should not be permitted to own firearms if they have psychotic features or have had them in the past.
Even terrified of everyone else, hiding in my room to avoid assault, and viewing the whole rotted system from the inside, I can rationally say that those prior weeks, if I'd had a thought to the gun my roommate showed off in our house at the time I'd gone chronically psychotic, even the idea of pulling the trigger to make loud noise would've been nifty.
Due process. Even if you understood the disjointed word approximations that your mind shits out, you have no concept, no one but a person who has been in a situation that is concentrated, chaotic violence would think for a minute that the idea of allowing them access to firearms is a good idea.
THAT is insane.
25
I'm going to back up stilettov here.
When I went in, I was a snarling wreck who'd undergone about two months of continual neurotic crisis. I probably was a danger to others in that I was a real powder keg, just waiting for someone to start something so I could go off on them. I still don't think that the social worker had me committed for the right reasons (she was more concerned about the predatory thoughts than the anxiety), and I'd still like to repeatedly smack her upside the head with a flyswatter, but I definitely was in no shape to be trusted with a lethal weapon. And I fully support the notion that I should be evaluated before being allowed to buy one of those things.
When I went in, I was a snarling wreck who'd undergone about two months of continual neurotic crisis. I probably was a danger to others in that I was a real powder keg, just waiting for someone to start something so I could go off on them. I still don't think that the social worker had me committed for the right reasons (she was more concerned about the predatory thoughts than the anxiety), and I'd still like to repeatedly smack her upside the head with a flyswatter, but I definitely was in no shape to be trusted with a lethal weapon. And I fully support the notion that I should be evaluated before being allowed to buy one of those things.
26
During the Vietnam War LaPierre was exempted out of the draft for mental health issues. Careful with that accusation of craziness, pal, it might be loaded.
27
@24
Whoa buddy sounds like it's time for your Haldol shot.
Yea I only spent 4 years working in a government run lock down psychiatric facility with a specific duty to enforce CALIFORNIA WELFARE AND INSTITUTIONS CODE, SECTION 5150, and another 7 working in the ER. I must not know what I'm talking about. I'm sure that due to your little trip to the looney bin have way more knowledge of how the mental health system works.
Due process applies to all detentions be it a criminal detention or a civil, like involuntary mental health commitment . That is why you can file a Writ of Habeas Corpus if you are detained. Due Process is you you MUST GO TO COURT in order for the mental health system to hold you.
And no I do not think that you or 25 should have access to firearms, you both seems to know that you do not want a gun, this should not affect my right to own a gun. In fact over 10 years of dealing with psychotic patients is the exact reason that I choose to carry a firearm.
@26
Interesting. Do you have a link?
I do find it interesting that many hawks have never been to war.
Whoa buddy sounds like it's time for your Haldol shot.
Yea I only spent 4 years working in a government run lock down psychiatric facility with a specific duty to enforce CALIFORNIA WELFARE AND INSTITUTIONS CODE, SECTION 5150, and another 7 working in the ER. I must not know what I'm talking about. I'm sure that due to your little trip to the looney bin have way more knowledge of how the mental health system works.
Due process applies to all detentions be it a criminal detention or a civil, like involuntary mental health commitment . That is why you can file a Writ of Habeas Corpus if you are detained. Due Process is you you MUST GO TO COURT in order for the mental health system to hold you.
And no I do not think that you or 25 should have access to firearms, you both seems to know that you do not want a gun, this should not affect my right to own a gun. In fact over 10 years of dealing with psychotic patients is the exact reason that I choose to carry a firearm.
@26
Interesting. Do you have a link?
I do find it interesting that many hawks have never been to war.
28
@27
It's weird how you are able to always find something in your biography that (you think) lets you one-up everyone in your Internet arguments. Something tells me that if tomorrow you find yourself arguing about hot air balloons, you'll be revealing that you spent six years as a hot air balloon pilot.
It's weird how you are able to always find something in your biography that (you think) lets you one-up everyone in your Internet arguments. Something tells me that if tomorrow you find yourself arguing about hot air balloons, you'll be revealing that you spent six years as a hot air balloon pilot.
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