Slog
News & ArtsFriday, March 15, 2013
Religion Don't Tell My Coworkers, But I Kind of Like the New Pope
Posted by Christopher Frizzelle on Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 5:19 PM
I know. I know. I KNOW. I know. But! But. It can't be denied. The stuff about him cooking his own meals and living in a modest apartment and riding the bus to work? And then being super casual/common/ordinary on his introduction to the world as the new pope? And insisting the cardinals all ride the elevator with him right afterward?* And hopping into a minivan with all of them, leaving the papal car empty? And personally paying his hotel bill the next day? And ducking out the side door of the Vatican to pray in public? To say nothing of this detail:
Francis comes from Argentina, which was hit by a crippling sovereign debt crisis in 2001 from which it has not fully recovered.
Cardinal Philippe Barbarin of Lyon, France, recalled that he had asked Cardinal Bergoglio why he was not going to Rome last December when Benedict was naming more cardinals.
“And he told me that right now the situation in Argentina was too terrible; he couldn’t leave Argentina,” Cardinal Barbarin said. “For me, that was significant. In a moment where the country is going badly, he said, ‘I have to be here.’ He could have happily come to a party in Rome, but he didn’t.”
His colleagues were all hopping on jets to go do Jager bombs with Ratzinger; not this guy. Yes, he's opposed to common sense modernizing reforms regarding women, vis-a-vis reproduction and ordination, and that totally sucks, and I hate it. But! Let's all just admit the church could really use a shock to its system regarding its focus on poor people (hey Mario, howzabout you sell off every gold-encrusted Catholic-commissioned bauble in Europe and give all that money, every single cent, to the poor? Cuz you're the kinda guy who may just do that!). And the thing about hating all sex outside of marriage, including gay sex? Uh, I think that's inevitable when you're choosing among a bunch of cardinals in their 70s. Plus, I'm sure you've heard, there's a liiiiitle problem in the church with repressed gay dudes who have alcohol, absolute power, and fantasies about penises, plus no outlet for their fantasies except the bodies of innocent children they have absolute power over (and maybe also the bodies they find in local bathhouses). Francis's lifelong commitment to austerity and simplicity might be a sign that the Catholic church's evil, corrupt, nauseating attitude toward power over other people (a problem the church has had since day one) might be—might be! Let us hope!—coming to a close.
* Mitt Romney's head must be spinning.
1
All per their plan - put a pious, elderly cleric in for a bit so the world takes a breather and thinks "well, all that child rape is in the past now, and the church is getting back to its roots, caring about the poor".
"Might be?" Even that means you're buying their BS.
Sinead is still right.
"Might be?" Even that means you're buying their BS.
Sinead is still right.
6
I had to delete someone off Facebook because she wouldn't stop gushing about the new pope, and how the world is "blessed" to have him.
8
Christopher, you're a dear, sweet boy, and I won't be the one to burst your bubble. After all, who knows. And, more to the point, who cares?
But I will take a small exception to the sell-off-all-the-gold argument, (which is as old as the hills). I think that's a silly idea. For one thing, who would buy it? But more importantly, Vatican City does represent a significant part of world culture, warts and all. They should keep all their ermine, maribuo, chandeliers, and other miscellaneous bling, but cut back on the expense accounts, as it were, and clean up their moral act.
But I will take a small exception to the sell-off-all-the-gold argument, (which is as old as the hills). I think that's a silly idea. For one thing, who would buy it? But more importantly, Vatican City does represent a significant part of world culture, warts and all. They should keep all their ermine, maribuo, chandeliers, and other miscellaneous bling, but cut back on the expense accounts, as it were, and clean up their moral act.
9
Right on, Xopher. Does no one remember this: "Seattle Protests Its Archbishop, Who Is Waging a War on Nuns for Focusing Too Much on Poverty and Not Enough on Opposing Abortion and Gay Rights / Posted by Dominic Holden on Wed, May 16, 2012 at 3:59 PM"? Poverty Pope would likely not have done this. It's a matter of emphasis and degree, not whether or not the new pope favors gay marriage. Of course the new pope does not favor gay marriage. Too bad, but nothing to go crying ~bigotry~ about as though you've never seen a pope before.
10
@2 An old article in the Boston Globe, I think, reviewing Romney's personality when he was governor, mentioned that he had his own reserved elevator so that he wouldn't have to ride with the legislators. This was published way before he got the nomination, and it was one of those things that filled us with dread as we contemplated the possibilities. Thank god that's behind us.
11
I lean that way as well. Let's wait and see how it pans out, though.
He'll be better than your average pope if he makes the poor Catholicism's top priority, just as the poor were Christ's top priority.
I imagine Republicans would never mention the War on Religion again if the pope singled out, say, Paul Ryan's budget as the anti-Christian blueprint that it is, or chided the Tea Party for their "fuck the poor, I've got mine" rhetoric.
Also, some reports say he doesn't oppose condoms when used to prevent the spread of disease. Yeah, Benedict the Quitter hinted at the same thing, but he never made it doctrine. That is the green light that Catholic charities active in the third world are waiting for.
Still, I'm optimistic. Hey, at least he was never a Nazi.
He'll be better than your average pope if he makes the poor Catholicism's top priority, just as the poor were Christ's top priority.
I imagine Republicans would never mention the War on Religion again if the pope singled out, say, Paul Ryan's budget as the anti-Christian blueprint that it is, or chided the Tea Party for their "fuck the poor, I've got mine" rhetoric.
Also, some reports say he doesn't oppose condoms when used to prevent the spread of disease. Yeah, Benedict the Quitter hinted at the same thing, but he never made it doctrine. That is the green light that Catholic charities active in the third world are waiting for.
Still, I'm optimistic. Hey, at least he was never a Nazi.
12
Now that you mention it, hearing that your sexual orientation, desire for safety, econominc and social equality are all manifestations of Satan The father of Lies, really does sound nicer coming from a humble theocrat, Chrisopher.Next time I'm upset at some hateful anti-gay politicking from the Catholic Church I'll comfort myself by remembering it's endorsed by a man who likes to make soup.
14
I will say this... the only reason I have for optimism is that he is a Jesuit, which having graduated from a Jesuit college (but being agnostic) I saw first hand how they really did put a high value on social justice and are quite liberal for Catholics.
I am not holding my breath however, I do hope to be pleasantly surprised, but he's just the pope, not a miracle worker.
I am not holding my breath however, I do hope to be pleasantly surprised, but he's just the pope, not a miracle worker.
15
I know you just miss-spoke, but repressed gay men are repressed gay men, NOT pedophiles. Lets try to keep those two groups separate in our conversations, so that the troll doesn't come along and say, "seeeee, gay men are pedophiles!" Priestly pedophiles who offend are evil; gay priests who have sex with men are just hypocrites.
Sorry for being a nag.
Sorry for being a nag.
16
The fact that he's a Jesuit doesn't mean anything except he may have slightly more sophisticated arguments for repressing women and gays. And he may never have been a Nazi, but he did have some rather close ties with the repressive Argentinian government.
19
For the Church to put less emphasis on doctrinal theology-blaming folks who don't fit the theological ideal, and focus on helping the disadvantaged-now that would be a blessing!
20
Lol, Crissy. Fucking hilarious. And you think the entire Curia, the whole Catholic world-wide ruling body, is going to give up their wealth and power? Put down your crack pipe, bitch. The only reason they exist, and the only thing they exist for, is their wealth and power. You remind me of those pathetic Communist Party apologists in the Soviet Union before it fell apart - "if we can only get in and make our voices heard, we could reform communism and the system!"
You're a fucking jackass if you think this pope is going to change anything. And, by the way, he thinks that your very nature as a faggot is something horribly deformed, and that any rights that you might be granted are against the laws of God and nature - even worse, they are the work of Satan. But bow down and kiss his ring, you stupid faggot.
You're a fucking jackass if you think this pope is going to change anything. And, by the way, he thinks that your very nature as a faggot is something horribly deformed, and that any rights that you might be granted are against the laws of God and nature - even worse, they are the work of Satan. But bow down and kiss his ring, you stupid faggot.
21
Christopher,
You're in for a let-down. Frank's not a socialist. He's against Liberation Theology. And he's not going to "sell off every gold-encrusted Catholic-commissioned bauble in Europe". You are hoping for a radical, and what you've got is a conservative.
Money is power. When money becomes centrally aggregated, that thing it clusters around becomes an institution. It's ability to remain in existence lies in direct proportion to how much power it can attract and retain. Wealth redistribution decentralizes power, diffusing it across as many people as possible. In the process of lifting up the many, it reduces the institutions.
The papacy is a political office. Political leaders come into and remain in power by knowing where the money is, and how to distribute it among the people whose support s/he needs to stay in office. The money you have to distribute is expressed by the wealth and income maintained by the institution. Once that wealth evaporates, your supporters leave.
So, lets take a simple equation. The amount of wealth you have to distribute divided by the number of people whose support you require to retain power. In the Vatican, that number is equal to the members of the College of Cardinals (115). In the US, that number is equal to enfranchised and registered voters (172 million). Now, if the resulting number is so low that your bribe won't be enough to buy a vote (you can't really buy a vote for pocket change), you have to offer public services that benefit everybody instead, such as public works projects, social programs, etc. If the resulting number is large, you don't have to. In fact, it's better under such circumstances to make an outright bribe. That's why the regimes that are the least democratic and most absolutist tend to be the most corrupt. And the Pope is an absolute monarch.
Now, bribery as blatant as simply handing our checks might upset the layity. Offering Cardinals expensive clothing, palatial housing, servants, flying them around in private aircraft to exotic locales, all this is accepted by the layity. If an individual Cardinal turns the bribe down and chooses to live like a monk, you have more to redistribute to the other Cardinals. But to expect all the 115 Cards to live so modestly would be political suicide.
Sure, Frank will give many speeches extolling modesty and expressing concern for the poor. The Church makes so much money by talking about the poor. But if they redistributed the Church's wealth to the poor, they wouldn't be poor anymore. That would put the Church out of business. It would also piss off the Cardinals, the archbishops, bishops and even priests who do earn a tidy income. Even those ascetic monks live in very fancy monasteries constructed by brilliant architects and decorated by fine artists. Have you looked at an altar? See all that gold glittery stuff, the chalices and censers and bells, the finely woven altar cloth, the ambry, the gold patens and the monstrance? I assure you, they aren't there because anybody thinks god needs that glittery crap. It's there for the monks and the layity, just like the cathedrals and the stained glass and the statues. And if you take it away from them, those "ascetics" will go away. Sure, they all talk about John the Baptist being a great guy, but nobody wants to live like that.
And you don't get to be Pope by being an idiot. Frank's not going to give away the thing that makes the Church powerful just to satisfy an ethical principle. He's more likely to urge everyone else to, and to preferably give it all away by donating it all-to the Church. So they can buy more lush digs for more Cards.
More...
You're in for a let-down. Frank's not a socialist. He's against Liberation Theology. And he's not going to "sell off every gold-encrusted Catholic-commissioned bauble in Europe". You are hoping for a radical, and what you've got is a conservative.
Money is power. When money becomes centrally aggregated, that thing it clusters around becomes an institution. It's ability to remain in existence lies in direct proportion to how much power it can attract and retain. Wealth redistribution decentralizes power, diffusing it across as many people as possible. In the process of lifting up the many, it reduces the institutions.
The papacy is a political office. Political leaders come into and remain in power by knowing where the money is, and how to distribute it among the people whose support s/he needs to stay in office. The money you have to distribute is expressed by the wealth and income maintained by the institution. Once that wealth evaporates, your supporters leave.
So, lets take a simple equation. The amount of wealth you have to distribute divided by the number of people whose support you require to retain power. In the Vatican, that number is equal to the members of the College of Cardinals (115). In the US, that number is equal to enfranchised and registered voters (172 million). Now, if the resulting number is so low that your bribe won't be enough to buy a vote (you can't really buy a vote for pocket change), you have to offer public services that benefit everybody instead, such as public works projects, social programs, etc. If the resulting number is large, you don't have to. In fact, it's better under such circumstances to make an outright bribe. That's why the regimes that are the least democratic and most absolutist tend to be the most corrupt. And the Pope is an absolute monarch.
Now, bribery as blatant as simply handing our checks might upset the layity. Offering Cardinals expensive clothing, palatial housing, servants, flying them around in private aircraft to exotic locales, all this is accepted by the layity. If an individual Cardinal turns the bribe down and chooses to live like a monk, you have more to redistribute to the other Cardinals. But to expect all the 115 Cards to live so modestly would be political suicide.
Sure, Frank will give many speeches extolling modesty and expressing concern for the poor. The Church makes so much money by talking about the poor. But if they redistributed the Church's wealth to the poor, they wouldn't be poor anymore. That would put the Church out of business. It would also piss off the Cardinals, the archbishops, bishops and even priests who do earn a tidy income. Even those ascetic monks live in very fancy monasteries constructed by brilliant architects and decorated by fine artists. Have you looked at an altar? See all that gold glittery stuff, the chalices and censers and bells, the finely woven altar cloth, the ambry, the gold patens and the monstrance? I assure you, they aren't there because anybody thinks god needs that glittery crap. It's there for the monks and the layity, just like the cathedrals and the stained glass and the statues. And if you take it away from them, those "ascetics" will go away. Sure, they all talk about John the Baptist being a great guy, but nobody wants to live like that.
And you don't get to be Pope by being an idiot. Frank's not going to give away the thing that makes the Church powerful just to satisfy an ethical principle. He's more likely to urge everyone else to, and to preferably give it all away by donating it all-to the Church. So they can buy more lush digs for more Cards.
22
@21 it's also very expensive to keep up a child rape habit. Those settlements from around the globe aren't going to pay off themselves.
23
2, Mormons are strong believers that the Pope is the anti-christ, so in that, Romney would care.
Christopher, it would be interesting to see you transported to Argentina in the 80's when it was ran by the military junta. You could fetishize over the uniforms and the power of the military to your hearts' content. Who cares how many of your gay friends would 'disappear.'
Christopher, it would be interesting to see you transported to Argentina in the 80's when it was ran by the military junta. You could fetishize over the uniforms and the power of the military to your hearts' content. Who cares how many of your gay friends would 'disappear.'
24
LOL!!! HA HA HA HA HA HA!!!! Oh god that's some funny shit!!
You really don't understand the history of the Church or as I like to call it, THE WHORE OF BABYLON? It's had that nickname for centuries before you came around for a reason.
No really, the best part of your stuff was "Francis's lifelong commitment to austerity and simplicity might be a sign that the Catholic church's evil, corrupt, nauseating attitude toward power over other people (a problem the church has had since day one) might be—might be! Let us hope!—coming to a close." I mean this showed you as someone who is CLUELESS about the Catholic Church and how the papacy has always been an office manipulated by the Cardinals for whatever "plan" they currently have.
You should write for Letterman or Maher or Fallon....really
You really don't understand the history of the Church or as I like to call it, THE WHORE OF BABYLON? It's had that nickname for centuries before you came around for a reason.
No really, the best part of your stuff was "Francis's lifelong commitment to austerity and simplicity might be a sign that the Catholic church's evil, corrupt, nauseating attitude toward power over other people (a problem the church has had since day one) might be—might be! Let us hope!—coming to a close." I mean this showed you as someone who is CLUELESS about the Catholic Church and how the papacy has always been an office manipulated by the Cardinals for whatever "plan" they currently have.
You should write for Letterman or Maher or Fallon....really
25
He's been shown to be willing to sell out his fellow priests to secular authorities (which could come in handy in these times). It was capitulation to a horrific regime, but at least he's willing to render unto Caesar.
27
@25, no matter who that Caesar happens to be...kinda like Pope Benny or Pope Pius....
But seriously, we aren't going to see another John XXIII or Paul VI as Pope again. Somehow the two liberals....well in Vatican thinking..managed to get past the Cardinals. And it WON'T happen again.
But seriously, we aren't going to see another John XXIII or Paul VI as Pope again. Somehow the two liberals....well in Vatican thinking..managed to get past the Cardinals. And it WON'T happen again.
29
um good luck with this pope helping the poor -- has the catholic church been out front in leading the fight for obama, higher taxes on the rich, saving medicare?
nope. nosirree bob.
here's the problem with the catholic church: the 1.2 billion catholics LET THEM have such crusty attitudes like
-using wealth to hold up the church, not help the poor
\--using power to aid those in power, not the poor
-all the sexual shit and anti equality shit, my god, they're about as bad as the john birch society
--for years they have lied and lied saying they are not one corporation so you bankrupt this diocese here but not get assets of the church to pay off the victims. just a big nest of LIES because they are ONE corporation, duh. they're lying liars like the worst corporations, just ridden with lies, and their sheep like flock just let them.
"oh I don't agree with the church, i just support it."
then they have people like this writer gushing over how he wore sandals the new pope or rode in a van, woo hoo, like that means jack shit.
did he condemn austerity policies? did he push for
$16 an hour minimum wage? did he push for prosecution of dirty warriors in argentina, or pinchet? no, no and no.
how credulous can you be.
nope. nosirree bob.
here's the problem with the catholic church: the 1.2 billion catholics LET THEM have such crusty attitudes like
-using wealth to hold up the church, not help the poor
\--using power to aid those in power, not the poor
-all the sexual shit and anti equality shit, my god, they're about as bad as the john birch society
--for years they have lied and lied saying they are not one corporation so you bankrupt this diocese here but not get assets of the church to pay off the victims. just a big nest of LIES because they are ONE corporation, duh. they're lying liars like the worst corporations, just ridden with lies, and their sheep like flock just let them.
"oh I don't agree with the church, i just support it."
then they have people like this writer gushing over how he wore sandals the new pope or rode in a van, woo hoo, like that means jack shit.
did he condemn austerity policies? did he push for
$16 an hour minimum wage? did he push for prosecution of dirty warriors in argentina, or pinchet? no, no and no.
how credulous can you be.
30
If your point is that you're allowed to prefer Francis over Benedict, well, yeah. okay.
But the lesser of two evils is still the lesser of two evils. I'd forgive a pope all the cushy Prada slippers and gold brocade he can hoarde if he actually seriously addressed things like the pedophila coverup, the disgusting treatment of women and sexual minorities, and the way in which the rich have co-opted the message of Jesus.
If he doesn't do any of those things, I could frankly (yeah, pun noted) care less whether he used to take the bus and continues to fix his own dinner.
If he doesn't release all the files they've got on the pedophiles, he's vile, and in charge of an organization that is actively doing evil in the world.
But the lesser of two evils is still the lesser of two evils. I'd forgive a pope all the cushy Prada slippers and gold brocade he can hoarde if he actually seriously addressed things like the pedophila coverup, the disgusting treatment of women and sexual minorities, and the way in which the rich have co-opted the message of Jesus.
If he doesn't do any of those things, I could frankly (yeah, pun noted) care less whether he used to take the bus and continues to fix his own dinner.
If he doesn't release all the files they've got on the pedophiles, he's vile, and in charge of an organization that is actively doing evil in the world.
31
My feeling on this is that we could be going from Mao to Deng Xiaoping. Or from Stalin to Khrushchev.
Still the head of a persecuting regime? Yes. Better than the last one? Definitely.
Still the head of a persecuting regime? Yes. Better than the last one? Definitely.
32
When I see crowds of people crowed in Vatican square all I can think of is mindledd drone bees swarming around the queen bee. So glad I was raised Anglican
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
It's Spring! Who's Ready for Street Harassment? by Cienna Madrid
-
New Gun Enthusiast... by Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: Gonna Boil My Laptop After Answering This One by Dan Savage
-
America Doesn't Care About Black People by Charles Mudede
-
Bigot Florist Files Countersuit by Dominic Holden
-
US Military Grants Itself the Power to Police American Streets and "Quell" "Civil Disturbances" by Brendan Kiley
-
SL Letter of the Day: Living Discomfortably by Dan Savage
-
Slog Super Poll: Who Should Be Mayor? by Dominic Holden
-
Black Market Elimination Fail: Draft Pot Rules Call for Ban on Hash and Hash Oil by Ben Livingston
-
Tim Burgess Quits the Mayor's Race by Dominic Holden
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (33) RSS