Slog
News & ArtsThursday, March 14, 2013
Savage Love SL Letter of the Day: Barely Legal
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 5:25 PM
Originally published March 16, 2006.
I am a 26-year-old lesbian in a relationship with a 21-year-old. We've been together for five years. She is a brilliant student with a bright future. I love her, but I feel that we need to part.
I am worried about how she would get along financially without me. While I don't totally support her, she couldn't pay rent and bills on her own without being fiscally miserable. She doesn't have friends she could move in with. She could just get a job like most college students, but then she'd have to give up many of the opportunities that she's earned by being a hard-working student.
Would it be wrong to help support her if I were to move out? Like I said, I love her very much, but I want to be on my own for a while.
Good Friend, Bad Girlfriend?
My response after the jump...
I'll get shitloads of angry e-mails if I don't make this point, so let's get it out of the way: She's 21, you're 26, and you've been together for five years? That means she was—oh, the humanity!—16 and you were 21 when you met. While red-blooded Americans love their barely legal lesbian porn, they frown mightily on barely legal, honest-to-God lesbian love. For shame, tut-tut, etc.
Okay, GFBG, if she's really that brilliant an undergrad, then your girlfriend can figure out how to take care of herself. A little fiscal misery, like a little barely legal lesbian action, is a cherished part of the college experience—and putting her own ass through college can be every bit as educational as those other opportunities she's earned through her hard work.
So split, GFBG—unless...
You know, something about your letter sticks in my craw. What 21-year-old college student doesn't "have friends she could move in with"? If she has college-age friends, then she surely has friends or friends-of-friends looking for roommates. I'm concerned that she may have no friends at all other than you. If that's the case, GFBG, then you have been a very bad girlfriend. As the older and wiser woman, it was your responsibility to encourage your then-teenage lover to have a well-rounded social life—in other words, friends in addition to a girlfriend. If you didn't do that, GFBG, if you consciously or subconsciously attempted to isolate your young girlfriend, if you discouraged her from making friends she could rely on if, say, you ever dumped her, then you are in large part responsible for her predicament. If that's the case, then you're morally obligated to offer her short-term financial support once you split. Enough money to cover rent for six months would give her the time to find a job, make some friends, and get on her feet.
49
As someone who was ... very academic? in college and law school, I'll say I've always been very wrapped up studying and in my primary partner and had no time or interest in outside friends. I'm either a nerd, an introvert, or a little Aspie but given my experiences the times I have had friends now that I'm back to being reclusive I feel I'm missing nothing.
48
"Looking to earn extra cash online?
When you take a break , go and click some advertises and make some tasks, i use clixsens for 1 hour a day, and I earn about 100 dolars in first week.After you create an acount , invite some friends to join this.you will earn comission from their earnings.
The address is :
http://www.clixsense.com/?5244493
We will talk more on the site.You can ask me for help there.
Payments Via Check, Payza, PayPal and Liberty Reserve
PS: IT IS NOT A VIRUS"
When you take a break , go and click some advertises and make some tasks, i use clixsens for 1 hour a day, and I earn about 100 dolars in first week.After you create an acount , invite some friends to join this.you will earn comission from their earnings.
The address is :
http://www.clixsense.com/?5244493
We will talk more on the site.You can ask me for help there.
Payments Via Check, Payza, PayPal and Liberty Reserve
PS: IT IS NOT A VIRUS"
47
''I'll get shitloads of angry e-mails if I don't make this point, so let's get it out of the way: She's 21, you're 26, and you've been together for five years? That means she was—oh, the humanity!—16 and you were 21 when you met. While red-blooded Americans love their barely legal lesbian porn, they frown mightily on barely legal, honest-to-God lesbian love. For shame, tut-tut, etc.''
I'll admit that I really don't understand the point you're trying to make here.
Is it that she was under 18 when they met?
In that case, it all depends on where they live. In the majority of states the age of consent for sex is 16.
Even those states that have an age of consent of 18 often have exceptions when the older person is not that much older. Florida is an example of this.
I think that perhaps one of the reasons that people get mixed up with 18 is that you must be 18 to appear in porn. Also, most porn is produced in California where the age of consent is 18 anyway.
Crazy thing about California, if a 17 year old girl and a 17 year boy have sex then they can BOTH be prosecuted.
I'll admit that I really don't understand the point you're trying to make here.
Is it that she was under 18 when they met?
In that case, it all depends on where they live. In the majority of states the age of consent for sex is 16.
Even those states that have an age of consent of 18 often have exceptions when the older person is not that much older. Florida is an example of this.
I think that perhaps one of the reasons that people get mixed up with 18 is that you must be 18 to appear in porn. Also, most porn is produced in California where the age of consent is 18 anyway.
Crazy thing about California, if a 17 year old girl and a 17 year boy have sex then they can BOTH be prosecuted.
46
It is utterly impossible for any of us to know what kind of relationship these two had, based on the actual letter by GFBG:
The age difference is not as large--five years--as many are treating it. Even though it started when the younger woman was a teenager, and I'll concede that the difference between 16 and 21 is much bigger than the difference between 21 and 26, it isn't like the lw was a middle-aged woman preying on a teenager when they began.
We have no idea why the younger woman doesn't have "friends she could move in with." None. We don't even know what that means. It could be that all of her friends are living in conditions under which they can't extend that level of hospitality; it could be the GFBG's mistaken perception; it could be that the 21's closest friend, with whom she could move in, in a heartbeat, is studying abroad for a year.
GFBG seems to be worried, possibly guilty, about how this woman will take the breakup, in which case, she seems to be trying to do the right thing.
The age difference is not as large--five years--as many are treating it. Even though it started when the younger woman was a teenager, and I'll concede that the difference between 16 and 21 is much bigger than the difference between 21 and 26, it isn't like the lw was a middle-aged woman preying on a teenager when they began.
We have no idea why the younger woman doesn't have "friends she could move in with." None. We don't even know what that means. It could be that all of her friends are living in conditions under which they can't extend that level of hospitality; it could be the GFBG's mistaken perception; it could be that the 21's closest friend, with whom she could move in, in a heartbeat, is studying abroad for a year.
GFBG seems to be worried, possibly guilty, about how this woman will take the breakup, in which case, she seems to be trying to do the right thing.
45
@39 - Um, I married someone 2x my age (at the time of our marriage) and it did work for well over a decade but ultimately foundered for a number of reasons - principally that we were really at different stages of life. However, certainly one of the issues was the fucked up dynamic - I was a clueless kid in so very many ways...perhaps she was too, but having been married before and having that much more experience, she had less of an excuse. I was angry about this by the end of things and felt cheated out of a decade or two of life, though I certainly signed on for it.
The kicker was: flashing forward almost a decade post-divorce I found myself with the shoe on the other foot: I was on a date with a young lady about half my age. And I really kind of just struggled with it. I obeyed the campfire rule, didn't really do more than try to have a nice evening, but I was left thinking: who could possibly have a relationship of equals with someone who is so much less experienced? Who would want it? How would you relate to them? Smart, attractive, mature young lady, but wow...just a kid! No, the plural of anecdote is not data, but yeah, this kind of dynamic is questionable.
I don't think there is anything at all wrong with spring-autumn relationships which are casual (or sexual) but yeah, not a monopoly like that.
The kicker was: flashing forward almost a decade post-divorce I found myself with the shoe on the other foot: I was on a date with a young lady about half my age. And I really kind of just struggled with it. I obeyed the campfire rule, didn't really do more than try to have a nice evening, but I was left thinking: who could possibly have a relationship of equals with someone who is so much less experienced? Who would want it? How would you relate to them? Smart, attractive, mature young lady, but wow...just a kid! No, the plural of anecdote is not data, but yeah, this kind of dynamic is questionable.
I don't think there is anything at all wrong with spring-autumn relationships which are casual (or sexual) but yeah, not a monopoly like that.
44
Ms Rubia - I can potentially agree with you as a generality for opposite-sexers (thank you for adopting the terminology, by the way), but lack the time now to go into full particulars of how same-sexer circumstances likely differ besides the numbers. I intend to return to this later - am off to co-direct a chess tournament for a hundred schoolchildren.
43
@22: I guess my point was that the older person might not be at fault for "isolating" their partner. She might be encouraging her to go out and have fun with other people to absolutely no effect.
As for age-differences with teenagers, my opinion is that it's scuzzy. I understand that options can be more limited for same-sexers, but I question why an adult would want to be in a relationship with a high-schooler. It just doesn't seem like they're "ripe" yet in terms of personality and maturity, and I wonder why a mentally-competent adult would put up with that unless the teenager was either insanely hot or the adult wanted to take advantage of their naivete or impulsiveness.
As for age-differences with teenagers, my opinion is that it's scuzzy. I understand that options can be more limited for same-sexers, but I question why an adult would want to be in a relationship with a high-schooler. It just doesn't seem like they're "ripe" yet in terms of personality and maturity, and I wonder why a mentally-competent adult would put up with that unless the teenager was either insanely hot or the adult wanted to take advantage of their naivete or impulsiveness.
42
@39, "Anecdotally, when people comment in SLlotd about relationships with an older lover that they feel fine about looking back, they usually note that from here they do see the older person as kinda scuzzy and wonder what they were thinking."
Anecdotes don't prove your point.
Anecdotes don't prove your point.
41
Oh, bullshit.
I was 16 when I met the woman who I spent 4 years with. I was already out to my family, friends and high school (yep, in 1985 that was big fun, you're welcome kids!) when we met. She was literally speechless when I revealed that I was traveling on fake ID in that bar, right before I took her home to meet my parents.
There were plenty of things about that relationship that were imperfect, and probably some things that I'm still too fucked up to know were fucked up. But we're still friends. She's my kid's godmother, and a friend to my wife of 18 years. Did it work out great for us both? No, tougher for her than for me, because breaking up is harder at 25 than at 20.
College should result in at least one long-term friendship, regardless of the older lover, and if it hasn't so far, THAT's the problem. Not the age difference.
I was 16 when I met the woman who I spent 4 years with. I was already out to my family, friends and high school (yep, in 1985 that was big fun, you're welcome kids!) when we met. She was literally speechless when I revealed that I was traveling on fake ID in that bar, right before I took her home to meet my parents.
There were plenty of things about that relationship that were imperfect, and probably some things that I'm still too fucked up to know were fucked up. But we're still friends. She's my kid's godmother, and a friend to my wife of 18 years. Did it work out great for us both? No, tougher for her than for me, because breaking up is harder at 25 than at 20.
College should result in at least one long-term friendship, regardless of the older lover, and if it hasn't so far, THAT's the problem. Not the age difference.
40
While I would likely agree with Ms I on this particular relationship, it would be becoming of the opposite-sexers on this thread to consider that a great many same-sexers do not at all phases of our lives have access to a pool of potential dates that allows us to reject possible partners solely on the basis of age. If I'd dated when I was 16, there would probably be a 2/3 chance that my partner would have been 24 or 25.
39
@38: Well, in modern times grown-ups looking to those who are still considered children for relationships is frowned upon, fucked up power dynamic and all. And this particular letter does not come across as conveying an enviable relationship that was good for the younger person. As 27 notes, the older person losing interest abruptly as the younger reaches close to the age of independence rather stands out.
Have there ever been such relationships that worked out okay for all involved? Sure. But the older person looking to young teenagers for love is hardly in an objective place to evaluate whether the kid is mature enough to come into this as an equal, given that "old enough" is equated with "does exactly what I want them to do." Anecdotally, when people comment in SLlotd about relationships with an older lover that they feel fine about looking back, they usually note that from here they do see the older person as kinda scuzzy and wonder what they were thinking.
Have there ever been such relationships that worked out okay for all involved? Sure. But the older person looking to young teenagers for love is hardly in an objective place to evaluate whether the kid is mature enough to come into this as an equal, given that "old enough" is equated with "does exactly what I want them to do." Anecdotally, when people comment in SLlotd about relationships with an older lover that they feel fine about looking back, they usually note that from here they do see the older person as kinda scuzzy and wonder what they were thinking.
38
21 year olds dating 16 year olds didn't become "child abuse" until recently. In fact, back in my heyday it was quite typical and ignored by most people, hardly worth even raising an eyebrow about. It's not until the last few decades, since we've become more open and honest (insert sarcasm here) about sex that the looney sex nazi's and therapists have decided that anyone who has had their naughtybits touched before age 18 is defacto emotionally traumatized and psychologically frocked up for life. I find it interesting that my contemporaries (40's to 50's) are so wound up about all this, because in my day (late 70's to mid 80's) my contemporaries were getting their groves on with anyone they could. Girls in my catholic HS dated college and post college guys all the time and nobody cried foul. Before I close to allow all the sociopaths to let loose branding me a pedophile, please remember that the age of consent is 16 in 29 of our US States and all of Canada. Let me have it Jesus freaks!
35
@23 Taking from from people alters the relationship. If your older gf is doing things for you that parents normally do, then that raises some relationship health concerns. Grants are a society investing in its people. The person who gives you the grant doesn't live with you or even know you. It's pretty fucking different.
@30, 32 Please don't feed the troll. You have treat them like children having a temper tantrum - just ignore them until it stops.
@30, 32 Please don't feed the troll. You have treat them like children having a temper tantrum - just ignore them until it stops.
34
Oh, so hard to decide...@4 and @21 - it's a tie!
Not sure who is creepier - the older or the younger - but definitely, break up now...no more financial support, no nothing. If she doesn't have someone she feels comfortable crashing with, this will motivate her to get out there and find someone. This is better even if you are kind of obligated to provide support.
Not sure who is creepier - the older or the younger - but definitely, break up now...no more financial support, no nothing. If she doesn't have someone she feels comfortable crashing with, this will motivate her to get out there and find someone. This is better even if you are kind of obligated to provide support.
31
The math gets a bit less sketchy depending on how the numbers are rounded.
Suppose that:
a) author was just barely 26
b) partner was very nearly 22
c) "five years" was really more like "4.8 years"
In this (perhaps optimistic) case, their ages would have been 17 and 21 at the start, which does pass the "half plus seven" rule that another poster brought up.
Heck, at 17, should *could* have been a college freshman. Early graduation is not that uncommon. At 21, the author was probably a college senior. A senior/freshman romance. Oh the humanity!
Suppose that:
a) author was just barely 26
b) partner was very nearly 22
c) "five years" was really more like "4.8 years"
In this (perhaps optimistic) case, their ages would have been 17 and 21 at the start, which does pass the "half plus seven" rule that another poster brought up.
Heck, at 17, should *could* have been a college freshman. Early graduation is not that uncommon. At 21, the author was probably a college senior. A senior/freshman romance. Oh the humanity!
30
Troll, what are you talking about? Is there any indication LW was in a position of power or in loco parentis over her younger partner at the time the relationship started? THAT is the abuse that pastors who have sexual partners much younger perpetrate - the abuse of power.
29
Everyone seems quite wound up over this letter but it just seems like a typical lesbian situation. Relationship goes on waaaayyyy tooooo lllooonnngg and is ludicrously co-dependant. Neither can stand to break up. When they do, they don't financially untangle for years. They probably also spent so much time processing the power dynamics and social ramifications that they could write a dissertation on the topic. And maybe the younger one did.
28
@26 re "parasite" , see @2.
But I appreciate your comment about power. On the other hand, there are many opportunities one can't pursue if one is working 30+ hours a week and going to school at the same time, including internships in many fields.
But I appreciate your comment about power. On the other hand, there are many opportunities one can't pursue if one is working 30+ hours a week and going to school at the same time, including internships in many fields.
27
I dunno, this letter just freaks me out. I think of what I was like at 16 and can't imagine being with a 21-year-old. My younger cousin was dating a guy who was 19 when she was 16, and my whole family was freaking out. If her boyfriend had been 21, the cops would probably have been fishing pieces of him out of the river.
The LW could be a perfectly nice person, but... this all reeks to me of a controlling person grooming a 16-year-old kid to the point that the older person becomes that kid's whole world. And just when the younger person in the relationship is on the verge of achieving the kind of independence that would allow her to become a fully functional adult, whaddya know? The older person suddenly loses interest.
I don't think some modest financial support would have been out of line at all, but the LW should otherwise have had the grace to completely exit her partner's life.
The LW could be a perfectly nice person, but... this all reeks to me of a controlling person grooming a 16-year-old kid to the point that the older person becomes that kid's whole world. And just when the younger person in the relationship is on the verge of achieving the kind of independence that would allow her to become a fully functional adult, whaddya know? The older person suddenly loses interest.
I don't think some modest financial support would have been out of line at all, but the LW should otherwise have had the grace to completely exit her partner's life.
26
Probably the emotional dynamics would be impossible for either party to fairly evaluate in the moment, and even years later: How much isolation was due to the student's personality, how much to the older lover's personality, and how much to not being forced to reach out and try new things?
18/23, I don't think anyone is calling the young person a lazy parasite. Rather that the older person's concern that young person probably can't find a roommate or a job seems diminishing to her. As though there might be a pattern of telling young person she can't make it on her own, inconvenient now that old person wants a break from young person.
And the reason there is usually not a large one-way transfer of funds between friends is power. Friendship is a relationship between equals, and financial support is a relationship with a dependent.
18/23, I don't think anyone is calling the young person a lazy parasite. Rather that the older person's concern that young person probably can't find a roommate or a job seems diminishing to her. As though there might be a pattern of telling young person she can't make it on her own, inconvenient now that old person wants a break from young person.
And the reason there is usually not a large one-way transfer of funds between friends is power. Friendship is a relationship between equals, and financial support is a relationship with a dependent.
25
SIX MONTHS!
What the fuck Dan!? The ex could do the "right thing" and pay an extra month's rent; or pay the moving costs for the younger girl to move into a smaller/cheaper apartment. But six months? Good god! It doesn't take that long to get a job at McDonald's
What the fuck Dan!? The ex could do the "right thing" and pay an extra month's rent; or pay the moving costs for the younger girl to move into a smaller/cheaper apartment. But six months? Good god! It doesn't take that long to get a job at McDonald's
23
But why is it ok to take grants, scholarships, loans, or money from parents to get through college, but not money from a friend? Although I guess the right wing would like to do away with grants and scholarships and tax money support for schools.
When I was in my 20s I came up with several thousands of dollars to help a friend I had met in a foreign country come to study here. No romantic issues. Because I thought he deserved a shot, and he was my friend.
So, are you all saying you shouldn't help a friend achieve his or her goals if it involves helping with money? Or, that you shouldn't take the money because it makes you a psychological weakling? Or, do these propositions only hold true when it is a former girlfriend?
Is generosity of any kind inherently creepy beyond a certain level, like giving candy to children you don't know. Like the family that helped that teen football player in The Blind Side? Was he co-dependent and should have been left to wither, or is it ok because they had sufficient self-interest that we could see it as a quid pro quo fair bargain? But here the generosity is creepy because she isn't getting a concrete benefit in return?
When I was in my 20s I came up with several thousands of dollars to help a friend I had met in a foreign country come to study here. No romantic issues. Because I thought he deserved a shot, and he was my friend.
So, are you all saying you shouldn't help a friend achieve his or her goals if it involves helping with money? Or, that you shouldn't take the money because it makes you a psychological weakling? Or, do these propositions only hold true when it is a former girlfriend?
Is generosity of any kind inherently creepy beyond a certain level, like giving candy to children you don't know. Like the family that helped that teen football player in The Blind Side? Was he co-dependent and should have been left to wither, or is it ok because they had sufficient self-interest that we could see it as a quid pro quo fair bargain? But here the generosity is creepy because she isn't getting a concrete benefit in return?
22
@20: The solution is probably not sad codependence, though. I don't think that helps the person involved.
20
The cradle-robbing is a bit skeezy, but sometimes a person knows that they should get out and spend more time with people who aren't their significant other, and they just don't. I'm 21, and while I am friendly enough with other people at college to have no problem finding roommates, I'm also naturally extroverted. And yet, none of my college friends are particularly close, mostly because I don't spend all that much time with them.
If I were a socially awkward person, or very shy, I would probably be in a similar situation as the younger person in the relationship if my SO and I broke up.
If I were a socially awkward person, or very shy, I would probably be in a similar situation as the younger person in the relationship if my SO and I broke up.
19
"The majority of the people in this thread can't make up their mind who the morally blameworthy person is here. The lazy parasite or the cradle robbing abuser?"
The cradle robbing abuser. I hope that helps.
The cradle robbing abuser. I hope that helps.
18
@16 FTW
@8 I didn't notice it was an old one. But I stand behind what I said.
The majority of the people in this thread can't make up their mind who the morally blameworthy person is here. The lazy parasite or the cradle robbing abuser? Why DOES someone here have to be immoral or destined to be so?
Honestly, I can't even figure why she's writing in, unless Dan is right, that there is some issue with the age that she can't come clean on or articulate. So, I guess Dan wanted to discuss her moral failings in that regard rather than answer the question.
Would be cool if some of these people would write Dan and tell how things turned out, so he could share it with us... Maybe that is what his book is about!
@8 I didn't notice it was an old one. But I stand behind what I said.
The majority of the people in this thread can't make up their mind who the morally blameworthy person is here. The lazy parasite or the cradle robbing abuser? Why DOES someone here have to be immoral or destined to be so?
Honestly, I can't even figure why she's writing in, unless Dan is right, that there is some issue with the age that she can't come clean on or articulate. So, I guess Dan wanted to discuss her moral failings in that regard rather than answer the question.
Would be cool if some of these people would write Dan and tell how things turned out, so he could share it with us... Maybe that is what his book is about!
17
I am glad the 26 yr old realized what a dreadfully codependent relationship she had and is getting out. A clean break, with a referral to a good therapist will do the 21 yr a world of good. Just as long as 26 is not now going to look to break in a new baby dyke.
16
True fiscal misery should be experienced everyone. But it isn't going to happen. You'll always have kids forced to sell their plasma for pennies while spoiled brats get paid to write for the Stranger. The world is unfair, it sucks. Keep on doin sometin is all i can say.
15
Q- Dear Danny,
I am a 26-year-old Youth Pastor in a relationship with a 21-year-old. We've been together for five years. She is a brilliant student with a bright future. I love her, but I feel that we need to part.
A- Dear LW,
She's 21, you're 26, and you've been together for five years? That means she was—oh, the humanity!—16 and you were 21 when you met. For shame, tut-tut, etc.
Get some for me, Pal,
XOXO
Danny
I am a 26-year-old Youth Pastor in a relationship with a 21-year-old. We've been together for five years. She is a brilliant student with a bright future. I love her, but I feel that we need to part.
A- Dear LW,
She's 21, you're 26, and you've been together for five years? That means she was—oh, the humanity!—16 and you were 21 when you met. For shame, tut-tut, etc.
Get some for me, Pal,
XOXO
Danny
14
Did Danny report the statutory rape?
Sex crimes committed against a minor could be prosecuted for up to seven years after the commission of the crime, or until three years after the victim's 18th birthday, whichever comes later.
Is Danny a child rapist hiding member of the Queer,Inc Humanist Clergy?
Fucking pathetic hypocritical hate-drenched blind bigoted pig.....
Sex crimes committed against a minor could be prosecuted for up to seven years after the commission of the crime, or until three years after the victim's 18th birthday, whichever comes later.
Is Danny a child rapist hiding member of the Queer,Inc Humanist Clergy?
Fucking pathetic hypocritical hate-drenched blind bigoted pig.....
13
As a poor kid who worked multiple jobs in college and still graduated with honors in a STEM degree, I call bullshit on the GF being unable to hold a job. Sounds like something the LW has convinced herself of to keep the GF dependent.
12
Why don't you homosexual marry her then homosexual divorce her and you could pay her alimony.
Danny would have thought of it we're sure if he weren't such a pathetic hypocritical hate-drenched blind bigoted pig.....
Danny would have thought of it we're sure if he weren't such a pathetic hypocritical hate-drenched blind bigoted pig.....
10
I was 21, in college, in a long term relationship since high school (christ, what was I thinking?), AND I had a 3 year old when - after the big break up - I needed to find college friends to do duty as roomies. Whaddya know? I was able to find other college students to live with my kid and I. It was not ideal. Still, it's doable for most and good for character building.
9
Oh, and that offering her a financial hand, in the sense of a one-time payment like three months' rent, would be a reasonable gesture.
No matter how I swap around the genders, the getting together at 16 thing, followed by a young partner who five years later doesn't seem to have many people in his or her emotional life beyond the older lover, and the older lover has decided to move on, is just very sigh-inducing.
No matter how I swap around the genders, the getting together at 16 thing, followed by a young partner who five years later doesn't seem to have many people in his or her emotional life beyond the older lover, and the older lover has decided to move on, is just very sigh-inducing.
8
Yeah, I put together the math (violated the half-age-plus-seven rule of creepiness) with the lack of friends she could crash with, and had a similar craw issue. I'm with 5 that dumping her would eventually be a huge favor.
6, Dan is writing in 2006 when the economy was in pretty good shape. And by 'get a job' I think she's referring to part-time retail, barista, waitress, unfun service jobs that many college students do which provide them at least as much training in what they want in their future life as any Psych 215 class. My various college jobs taught me how much happier flexible work hours made me, for example.
6, Dan is writing in 2006 when the economy was in pretty good shape. And by 'get a job' I think she's referring to part-time retail, barista, waitress, unfun service jobs that many college students do which provide them at least as much training in what they want in their future life as any Psych 215 class. My various college jobs taught me how much happier flexible work hours made me, for example.
7
What?
No screeching condemnation of
predatory 16-year-old-fucking homosexuals?
No condemnation of ALL homosexuals because some homosexuals fuck and exploit 16 year old kids?
Only megachurch pastors, eh Danny?
If kids got statutory raped at Denny's as often as they get statutory raped by homosexuals would people call CPS?
Did you call CPS on the LW, Danny?
You pathetic hypocritical hate-drenched blind bigoted pig.....
No screeching condemnation of
predatory 16-year-old-fucking homosexuals?
No condemnation of ALL homosexuals because some homosexuals fuck and exploit 16 year old kids?
Only megachurch pastors, eh Danny?
If kids got statutory raped at Denny's as often as they get statutory raped by homosexuals would people call CPS?
Did you call CPS on the LW, Danny?
You pathetic hypocritical hate-drenched blind bigoted pig.....
6
Hey, I was in college at 21 and I didn't have a ready supply of friends I could move in with. Not everybody is a social butterfly like you Dan. You seem to think college is an awesome party for everybody.
Also, whatever the situation was 5 years ago. If she wants to help her with some money, I can't see why she shouldn't do it and why her friend shouldn't take it. I think this is more so if being with her has isolated the younger person. Also, you seem to think getting a frickin job is easy, too. You are talking more like it is 1980 than 2013. I think your reasons on the money are more moralistic punishment than sound. Might as well say what @2 said, that the younger lady is a parasite. Bullshit. People help eachother, and they have to even more because aid for students sucks. You want her to take out loans?
sheesh.
Also, whatever the situation was 5 years ago. If she wants to help her with some money, I can't see why she shouldn't do it and why her friend shouldn't take it. I think this is more so if being with her has isolated the younger person. Also, you seem to think getting a frickin job is easy, too. You are talking more like it is 1980 than 2013. I think your reasons on the money are more moralistic punishment than sound. Might as well say what @2 said, that the younger lady is a parasite. Bullshit. People help eachother, and they have to even more because aid for students sucks. You want her to take out loans?
sheesh.
5
Spot-on advice. It seems far more plausible a teenager could mix, or at least try to mix, with her older girlfriend's friends than vice-versa—assuming somehow a 21-year old with a girlfriend in 10th grade maintains a robust social circle. Whether or not it was intentional, this young woman probably was socially isolated from her peers.
By dumping her, you're probably doing her the biggest favor you could at this point. If you're that worried about her, give her a chance to find a roommate and let her take over the apartment.
By dumping her, you're probably doing her the biggest favor you could at this point. If you're that worried about her, give her a chance to find a roommate and let her take over the apartment.
2
Yeah, I remember this letter. Your answer is perceptive, Dan. It very much sounds like we're talking about a woman who monopolized her much younger girlfriend's time and emotional energy from day one. No wonder she has qualms about leaving this parasite she's created.
1
I don't know about that. Her lack of friends outside her relationship might be a personality thing that has nothing to do with her girlfriend. Or perhaps she is so focused on her studies that socializing fell by the wayside. Either way, being responsible for the mental and social health of your ex seems like a unfair (and deeply scary) proposition.
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