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News & ArtsThursday, March 14, 2013
Savage Love Props to Prudie
Posted by Dan Savage on Thu, Mar 14, 2013 at 10:28 AM
I busted Prudie for giving some awful advice last week. So credit where credit is due: Most advice columnists would recommend murder/suicide before recommending an open marriage. But here's Prudie's advice for a woman whose husband refuses to have sex with her:
I don’t know why you should condemn yourself to another five years of this. If for the sake of your children’s stability that sacrifice seems worth it to you, that’s your choice. But I’d suggest you go back into couples therapy and discuss the possibilities of divorce or open marriage. Your husband has reneged on one of the basic principles of your union, and you’re entitled to seek a physical connection elsewhere.
I might've led with open marriage, as the woman describes her husband as "kind, smart, funny, and a great provider," as well as a "fabulous father." In a case like that, I'd definitely suggest an open marriage first, divorce second. But that's a minor quibble.
1
Prudie's first letter involved a widower who's starting to date again and wanted to give his new girlfriend his dead wife's expensive vibrator, and I think she handled that well, too, even suggesting he offer it for sale on Craisglist if he's so upset at the waste of money.
2
She also advised the guy to not use his late wife's vibrator with new girlfriends because of the squick factor. I would have told him that $100 is not that expensive of a sex toy, though.
3
I like the idea of advice columnists reading each others' columns.
Not that it's surprising. I just picture Dan reading Prudie's column and telling Terry "I can't believe she wrote that, here's what I'D say..."
I wonder which advice writer is Dan's favorite?
Not that it's surprising. I just picture Dan reading Prudie's column and telling Terry "I can't believe she wrote that, here's what I'D say..."
I wonder which advice writer is Dan's favorite?
4
FWIW, the LW in the sexless marriage also said that she is completely not attracted to her husband any more. Could be result of no sex, or could be part of the cause. Probably the first, but it made me wonder.
6
The bar is that low? I'll grant it's an improvement for her, as well as a bit out of character - perhaps she's making a conscious attempt to restore herself to favour.
But it still does not compensate either for last week or for her insistence that a homophobic relation who'd cast a legislative vote against the legitimacy of the very marriage in question be invited to the wedding when one of the grooms-to-be was clearly requesting permission not to invite him.
But it still does not compensate either for last week or for her insistence that a homophobic relation who'd cast a legislative vote against the legitimacy of the very marriage in question be invited to the wedding when one of the grooms-to-be was clearly requesting permission not to invite him.
8
She's married and she needs IVF for children because the husband doesn't want sex with her. She shows poor judgement that now involves children. I say she should wait for the children to grow up. Get a vibrator.
9
But the props should have been summarily reneged when Prudie called the husband's lack of interest in sex a "pathology." Perhaps it is, but we don't know enough about the situation or his reasoning. Perhaps he's asexual. Either way, if it was a female partner who wasn't interested in sex, I doubt she'd be so fast to label it a pathology.
Diversity of sexual expression fail.
Diversity of sexual expression fail.
10
I'd definitely suggest an open marriage first, divorce second.
I'd go with the following order:
1) Suggest an open marriage
2) Cheat
3) Divorce
I'd go with the following order:
1) Suggest an open marriage
2) Cheat
3) Divorce
11
@9 - Even if the husband's asexual--which I agree is not a pathology--he married a non-asexual woman he presumably loves, and he has put her through years of unhappiness and frustration. Including spending more than $10,000 on IVF just to avoid having sex. That's pathological.
13
I think ALL advice column letters should be presented to a panel of ALL the big advice columnists - then they would all compete to see who could give the best response. Your next big hit reality show, and I'm giving you the idea for free!
17
@4: She seems to be the one who wanted the sex, got rejected by him constantly over 16 years, and is complaining about it to Prudie. I can't see her letter making sense if she was the one who developed disdain for him first, which then led to no sex.
18
@2, maybe he could donate the vibrator to a sex-positive non-profit (such as a local LGBT or BDSM support group), and take a $140 write-off on his taxes. Kinky people use communal vibrators at sex parties (particularly the Sybian, which costs over $1000), so it should be possible to find it a home.
@10, I'd propose:
1) suggest an open marriage
2) if he isn't interested, explain that she is going ahead anyway and she hopes he'll stick around because he's "kind, smart, funny, and... a fabulous father."
3) find out whether he stays around or not.
@16 that's where my money is.
@10, I'd propose:
1) suggest an open marriage
2) if he isn't interested, explain that she is going ahead anyway and she hopes he'll stick around because he's "kind, smart, funny, and... a fabulous father."
3) find out whether he stays around or not.
@16 that's where my money is.
19
Whoa...what a very very weird guy...how on earth did that even get to the IVF stage? I'm with @8 - she's got a serious set of blinders on, or sex wasn't really that important to her (not as important as good provider for having babies with anyway). There's something weird going on there, and it may not be all him. Yeah, open marriage followed quickly by divorce.
I think it was great of Prudie to offer to connect her with the guy in the first letter!
I think it was great of Prudie to offer to connect her with the guy in the first letter!
21
@20: I'm betting on some combination of his frantic desire to pass and New Relationship Energy on both their parts. Maybe add fairly low expectations on what constitutes frequent on her part?
22
@9: The non-sexual person may not be pathological, but the relationship most certainly is.
If you are asexual, either:
a) Don't marry someone who is not asexual, or
b) Be very upfront about yourself and give them explicit permission to meet that need elsewhere with your blessing.
But yes, he personally could be any number of things (closeted, asexual, etc), rather than just in need of a thorough head-shrinking.
If you are asexual, either:
a) Don't marry someone who is not asexual, or
b) Be very upfront about yourself and give them explicit permission to meet that need elsewhere with your blessing.
But yes, he personally could be any number of things (closeted, asexual, etc), rather than just in need of a thorough head-shrinking.
23
@21 - powerful ability to fantasize with his eyes closed perhaps.
I suppose it's easy to forget what it was like at age 17: endless horniness....raging boners conjured at will. These days it kind of requires some...actual attraction!
I suppose it's easy to forget what it was like at age 17: endless horniness....raging boners conjured at will. These days it kind of requires some...actual attraction!
24
@2 that was my thought: $140 is about average for a decent, well constructed, silicon vibrator. It sucks when you spend that money and it doesn't suit you, but c'est la vi(b)e. I think the fact that the last user is dead would kill (ha!) any chance of an orgasm for the next user.
26
@25,
I knew about that, but I figured it was just a random chance thing (i.e., saw the desk was for sale and went for the opportunity).
I knew about that, but I figured it was just a random chance thing (i.e., saw the desk was for sale and went for the opportunity).
28
@7: If sex was reversed, it'd be the guy's fault. If it was a gay couple, it'd be the guy's fault. If it was a lesbian couple, it would still somehow manage to be the guy's fault. It's pretty much always the guy's fault.
29
@28(seandr): Indeed it is (and about time you figured that out. Kudos to you!). Now you need to come over and refinish my pitted and scratched floors, because since you're a man, their deplorable condition is all your fault.
33
I wish I had known about Dan 5 years ago. I could have used the "open marriage" advice, as I was in almost the exact same situation as Prudie's letter-writer. I know exactly when my child was conceived. We were having sex about once a year, usually because I was saying "hey, it's been almost a year...." My ex was either asexual, gay, or just not attracted to me. After a year of marriage counseling and no progress, I ended the marriage. Although I'm not sure he ever would have opened up the marriage.
34
@32: I demand this for next year's HUMP. I mean, I'm not going to be there in person, but I will in spirit.
Say, that's a decent HUMP idea too. Spectrophilia, anyone?
Say, that's a decent HUMP idea too. Spectrophilia, anyone?
35
@33: " Although I'm not sure he ever would have opened up the marriage. "
Wow. If your assessment was true, that is the clinical definition of fucked-up. Essentially, "I can't be bothered to ever fuck you, but I'll be damned if anybody else ever will, either."
Wow. If your assessment was true, that is the clinical definition of fucked-up. Essentially, "I can't be bothered to ever fuck you, but I'll be damned if anybody else ever will, either."
36
@31: See:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/p…
You may also find useful:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/p…
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/p…
You may also find useful:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/p…
39
@37: Did you in fact read the page? Try definition number 3. Here, I'll reproduce it for your convenience, since you obviously missed it the first time:
3. any deviation from a healthy, normal, or efficient condition.
What exactly is healthy, normal, or efficient about a man marrying a heterosexual woman, then refusing to have sex with her (his wife, remember?) then making her go through IVF in order to have children rather than upholding his end of the usual spousal duties (or as most spouses view them, pleasures and prerogatives) that she doubtless thought both of them were signing up for when they said, "I do?"
Further: "from pathos "suffering" (see pathos)" You wouldn't say the woman in this relationship is suffering?
Again: the man may or may not be suffering from a pathology, but the relationship most definitely is.
3. any deviation from a healthy, normal, or efficient condition.
What exactly is healthy, normal, or efficient about a man marrying a heterosexual woman, then refusing to have sex with her (his wife, remember?) then making her go through IVF in order to have children rather than upholding his end of the usual spousal duties (or as most spouses view them, pleasures and prerogatives) that she doubtless thought both of them were signing up for when they said, "I do?"
Further: "from pathos "suffering" (see pathos)" You wouldn't say the woman in this relationship is suffering?
Again: the man may or may not be suffering from a pathology, but the relationship most definitely is.
40
@39, I think offwhite might be referring to the fact that you called the relationship pathological, and not the person. I get what you're saying--their relationship really is diseased--but your usage is incorrect.
43
@avast2006... yeah, chicago girl pretty much summed it up. Also, I'm just as critical of the use of the word "normal" as I am of "pathological." Normalcy, as a concept, just fosters exclusion and quashes the benefits of diversity.
Also, calm down. Where did I imply that I believe any of that shit? I totally agree with you that the guy sucks (see comment 12).
Also, calm down. Where did I imply that I believe any of that shit? I totally agree with you that the guy sucks (see comment 12).
44
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