Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, March 12, 2013
Guns Which Thing Kills More People in Washington State: The Car or the Gun?
Posted by Eli Sanders on Tue, Mar 12, 2013 at 6:00 AM
As Mother Jones notes, data suggests that by 2015 guns will kill more Americans than traffic accidents. And: "A number of states have already hit this grisly milestone."
Down in Olympia, Democratic legislators are currently wavering on whether to vote for universal background checks this session, and Governor Jay Inslee is offering to put them on the phone with Gabby Giffords, so perhaps it's worth adding this to the discussion:
Washington is one those states to have already hit the "grisly milestone" at which gun fatalities begin outpacing car fatalities. We did so in 2010. (Another distinction for our state: we're one of only four in America in which gun suicides alone number higher than traffic deaths.)
1
If true, that's going to take the wind out of the sails of one of the more popular anti gun control arguments. Probably won't change any minds, though.
3
@ 2, that cars are more deadly than guns, so why don't we just ban cars. It's reductio ad absurdum, but that hasn't diminished its popularity as a talking point.
4
I'd really love to talk to Gabby Giffords. I'd ask her why her husband felt that it wasn't hypocritical to campaign for gun control while in the process of buying an AR-15 — which he did last week. No shit.
5
@ 4, did he now? Sounds like he wanted to make a point.
Mark Kelly, the husband of former Rep. Gabby Giffords and an outspoken advocate for new gun control measures, purchased an AR-15 assault rifle in Tucson recently as a demonstration of what he says are unobtrusive background checks.
The retired space shuttle commander wrote on his Facebook page he would turn in the weapon – which he said he hadn't yet obtained - to the city's police department.
6
@4 Yeah, but hypocrisy is protected under the Constitution. Free speech, dude. Plus, since when is a wife responsible for her husband's actions? And, what do you have against astronauts being able to buy a gun?
By the way, are there any other brain-damaged innocent survivors of assault that you'd look forward to giving the third degree?
By the way, are there any other brain-damaged innocent survivors of assault that you'd look forward to giving the third degree?
7
@ 6, if he were being a hypocrite, it would take away his moral authority to speak out on gun control. So it matters if he is or isn't. And it looks like he isn't.
8
i thought UBCs were a measure that 2nd Amendment Absolutists were in favor of. or is it just ANY measures?
i know 2 suicides in the last 5 years. both used guns. and both did it impulsively.
i know 2 suicides in the last 5 years. both used guns. and both did it impulsively.
9
Mark Kelly buys an AR-15 to turn in to the police, only announcing the fact days later after he is caught red handed. Ha ha ha. He should just admit that he likes sporting rifles, ain't no thang.
13
If we simply banned alcohol and required breathalyser ignition interlock devices in all vehicles, we'd save thousands upon thousands of lives.
If banning Big Gulps to save lives is a good idea, then banning booze is a great idea! (Really, I just want to keep booze out of the hands of idiots...)
So, again, is all this gun control bloviating really about saving lives or not?
If banning Big Gulps to save lives is a good idea, then banning booze is a great idea! (Really, I just want to keep booze out of the hands of idiots...)
So, again, is all this gun control bloviating really about saving lives or not?
14
@ 13, if gun deaths are exceeding car deaths, then maybe we're already saving lives on the roads.
I believe you have misidentified whom is bloviating.
I believe you have misidentified whom is bloviating.
16
Really, what is Mark Kelly's point? That if you show ID and pass a NICS background check you can buy a rifle in accordance with the law. Is his point that the systems works? He certainly wasn't going to fail the background check.
17
@ 15/16, link or it didn't happen. (And it better be a clear photo, the post needs to be dated, and it shouldn't be from a nutty site.)
Criticizing his point will serve you much better than trying to disparage his motives. I happen to agree that it comes across as a pointless stunt.
Criticizing his point will serve you much better than trying to disparage his motives. I happen to agree that it comes across as a pointless stunt.
18
Yep, that's the point: that these background checks aren't a hassle. Polite golf claps for understanding that. How dare people talking about enacting background checks better understand background checks!
20
@ 19, no. It's your allegation. You prove it. Nobody is obligated to research your specious claims, or accept them at face value.
Until you do, you're a fucking liar.
Until you do, you're a fucking liar.
22
@ 21, that's not the point. It's about credibility, not ease.
Further, since the photo in question was posted to his own FB page, it isn't proof of what @ 19 is alleging.
If there's no "red handed" picture like @ 19 is alleging, implying that he was caught by someone else and is no covering his ass with a false explanation, it takes more than 10 seconds to determine that it's not there. It's jumping through hoops, going on a wild goose chase, or whatever is your favorite metaphor for wasting time.
Further, since the photo in question was posted to his own FB page, it isn't proof of what @ 19 is alleging.
If there's no "red handed" picture like @ 19 is alleging, implying that he was caught by someone else and is no covering his ass with a false explanation, it takes more than 10 seconds to determine that it's not there. It's jumping through hoops, going on a wild goose chase, or whatever is your favorite metaphor for wasting time.
23
blip's right boys. Snopes cleared that right up. And supports Matt's position, not yours Lew. Since it was Kelly himself that posted that picture of him buying the AR on his facebook. So not a hypocrite. Proving a point.
All hail Snopes!
All hail Snopes!
24
#20 still will not believe it. Sam Donaldson isn't holding up the days paper with the date in front of the photo.
25
@4
Seeing Fifty-Two-Eighty's ignorance exposed is getting boring. I wish he'd at least make a half assed effort.
Seeing Fifty-Two-Eighty's ignorance exposed is getting boring. I wish he'd at least make a half assed effort.
26
@22 It's still preferable to reading two adults call each other names back and forth. For me at least.
27
The interesting aspect of these gun nuts who are so overexcited to "catch" campaigners for stricter gun laws buying or owning guns is the crazy, paranoid idea that drives it: gun nuts think that Giffords and Feinstein and everyone else wants guns for themselves, but not you, Joe the Plumber. Because totalitarian conspiracy! They'll be armed and you won't and then something something something and then freedom will die.
These are the exact same guys who sat back and did nothing when the president started secretly kidnapping people and packing them off to be tortured. When democracy is attacked by massive disenfranchisement of minorities, they close ranks with those who would block access to the ballot box. It's a very selective kind of kooky paranoia.
The other wacky thing is that most gun owners support stricter gun laws. There's nothing the least bit remarkable about a gun owner who wants background checks or magazine limits. Most gun owners support the assault weapons ban.
What's relatively unusual is a gun owner who doesn't want stricter gun laws. Gun nuts. They're loud, but there aren't all that many of them.
These are the exact same guys who sat back and did nothing when the president started secretly kidnapping people and packing them off to be tortured. When democracy is attacked by massive disenfranchisement of minorities, they close ranks with those who would block access to the ballot box. It's a very selective kind of kooky paranoia.
The other wacky thing is that most gun owners support stricter gun laws. There's nothing the least bit remarkable about a gun owner who wants background checks or magazine limits. Most gun owners support the assault weapons ban.
What's relatively unusual is a gun owner who doesn't want stricter gun laws. Gun nuts. They're loud, but there aren't all that many of them.
28
@ 24, read @ 22.
@ 26, I'll just say that I'm surprised that a Slog regular would have a problem with that. Sure, it gets old, but it's a fixture in the posts, not just the comments.
@ 26, I'll just say that I'm surprised that a Slog regular would have a problem with that. Sure, it gets old, but it's a fixture in the posts, not just the comments.
29
So, again, is all this gun control bloviating really about saving lives or not?The people here who are in favor of gun control care about saving lives as much as people who are against abortion care about saving lives.
30
@29 this, a thousand times this.
the anti gun crowd has gone so far off the rails and have so fetishized firearms they sound like fox news talking about obama.
the anti gun crowd has gone so far off the rails and have so fetishized firearms they sound like fox news talking about obama.
32
Unless you're talking about the Starfleet officer, it's "data suggest," not "data suggests." "Data" is the plural of "datum," don'cha know?
33
@28 Yes, I know. I just like a little more shade with my insults than "prick" or "liar." Besides, if someone is capable of believing that the most visible face of gun control in America today bought an AR-15 just for funzies, "fucking liar" doesn't really capture their problem. "Fucking moron" would have at least been in the right ballpark, but we don't need to tell these folks they're morons because they know they're morons.
34
@13/29, Drinking and driving is not the only cause of auto accidents, so instead of banning alcohol or requiring expensive and fallible technology like breathalyzer locks we improve safety features on cars and require seatbelts and save lives that way.
Similarly, we don't want to ban guns outright and instead seek to implement safety measures that keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have them.
Similarly, we don't want to ban guns outright and instead seek to implement safety measures that keep guns out of the hands of people who should not have them.
35
@ 33, stay on the internet long enough and someone will call you a moron. (And of course you'll discover that many people online are morons.) If you can handle them, you'll eventually become immune to it, since it's both untrue and a sign of the insulter's laziness and/or lack of wit.
But lying can be proven, so I find it more satisfying to call the liars out.
That's just me, of course. YMMV.
But lying can be proven, so I find it more satisfying to call the liars out.
That's just me, of course. YMMV.
36
As always, once you remove the suicides from the gun-related deaths the picture completely changes.
But some people insist on including suicides in the statistics despite the fact that, without a 100% ban, the suicide rate by gun would probably not change.
And with a 100% ban on guns, the method for those suicides would change.
It has never been about saving lives.
There are other ways to save lives that cost less money and are easier to pass at the state and federal level.
But some people insist on including suicides in the statistics despite the fact that, without a 100% ban, the suicide rate by gun would probably not change.
And with a 100% ban on guns, the method for those suicides would change.
It has never been about saving lives.
There are other ways to save lives that cost less money and are easier to pass at the state and federal level.
37
@ 36, bullshit. You know nothing about suicide. And you never propose "other ways" to save lives. Do you think you're fooling anyone?
40
@14
I have not for one moment misidentified who is bloviating.
I am bloviating as much as the gun control zealots here and will accept no substitutes.
Never underestimate the bloviation capacity of a bored man getting rained on in Seattle in March.
I SLOG, therefore I bloviate.
I have not for one moment misidentified who is bloviating.
I am bloviating as much as the gun control zealots here and will accept no substitutes.
Never underestimate the bloviation capacity of a bored man getting rained on in Seattle in March.
I SLOG, therefore I bloviate.
41
http://www.komonews.com/news/national/Ch…
No ironic headline from Goldy? What, gang bangers killing other gang bangers' babies isn't funny? Doesn't fit the Stranger's narrative?
No ironic headline from Goldy? What, gang bangers killing other gang bangers' babies isn't funny? Doesn't fit the Stranger's narrative?
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
All You Motherfuckers Complaining That aPodments Are Too Small at 200 Square Feet by Dominic Holden
-
SL Letter of the Day: Did You Think I Was Going To Tell You Not To Come Out? (PLUS: Help Free Kate!) by Dan Savage
-
It's Spring! Who's Ready for Street Harassment? by Cienna Madrid
-
America's Epidemic of Toddler-on-Toddler Gun Violence Continues by Goldy
-
Dutch Artist Turns Dead Cat into Remote-Controlled Helicopter by Bethany Jean Clement
-
Slog Overnight by Dan Savage
-
Saint Genet Re-Creates "Shoot" by Brendan Kiley
-
New Gun Enthusiast... by Dan Savage
-
Slog Bible Study: Revelation 1:9 by Goldy
-
The City of Portland, Oregon Should Run for Washington Lieutenant Governor by Goldy
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (41) RSS