Slog
News & ArtsThursday, March 7, 2013
Politics / Economy Scrap the Cap!
Posted by Goldy on Thu, Mar 7, 2013 at 3:35 PM
Currently, earned income in excess of $113,700 is entirely exempt from the 6.2 percent payroll tax that funds Social Security benefits (employers pay a matching 6.2 percent). 5.2 percent of working Americans make more than $113,700 a year. Simply by eliminating the payroll tax earnings cap — and thus ending this regressive exemption for the top 5.2 percent of earners — would, according to the Congressional Budget Office, solve the financial crisis facing the Social Security system.
So why don’t we talk about raising or eliminating the cap – a measure that has strong popular, though not elite, support?
Huh. Well, that's an easy question to answer: Because our government is dominated by a stupid and/or selfish ruling elite.
3
If you want to raise the income tax and use it to fund social security just do it, there's no reason to have a separate social security tax if it's not going to be linked to an individuals benefits.
4
@ 1-2: It's better for your class (in the long run) to enable the rest of us to eat in our retirement. Even with the payroll tax cap removed (as the nytimes article points out) federal taxes will still be at historic lows. What do you hope to accomplish by starving old folks once they are too feeble to work at walmart?
5
Here's my idea - blow the cap out of the water. Have everyone pay on every last dime of both earned and investment income. But lower the percentage paid down so that it's hardly felt.
The wealthy and their toadies would hate this idea of course, for the only thing they know is greed, and the only thing that will willingly separate them from their money is the call of Jesus, beckoning them home. But it usually just takes a few drops of the guillotine to change their thinking.
The wealthy and their toadies would hate this idea of course, for the only thing they know is greed, and the only thing that will willingly separate them from their money is the call of Jesus, beckoning them home. But it usually just takes a few drops of the guillotine to change their thinking.
6
@3: Raising income tax would be more progressive still (and an idea I would support -- I bet Goldy would, too). Of course floating even this (comparatively regressive) suggestion will get you called a pinko-commie-class warrior by the fox news audience.
I don't see how removing the cap makes ss benefits any less linked to an individual's benefits than the current system. It's not like folks get cut off after their lifetime benefits exceed their lifetime contributions now.
I don't see how removing the cap makes ss benefits any less linked to an individual's benefits than the current system. It's not like folks get cut off after their lifetime benefits exceed their lifetime contributions now.
8
we can talk about it all you want, but ain't shit happening with Boner and his party running congress.
congress flips in 2014 or it ain't gonna happen.
which means it ain't gonna happen.
congress flips in 2014 or it ain't gonna happen.
which means it ain't gonna happen.
10
You could eliminate the cap and at the same time make capital gains income taxable for this purpose and you could effectively lower the rate for most people.
11
I would personally be affected by this in a large way, and I never thought the cap was a great idea. I support eliminating the cap entirely, not just raising it.
12
The way to sell this is to note that it makes Social Security and Medicare a flat tax! Yay, flat tax, fair just like the right wing thinks all taxes should be. You can calculate it on a postcard with just multiplication! None of those fancy liberal concepts like greater than or subtraction.
13
You don't talk about lifting the property tax rise cap...why not?
You must understand...middle class = income....royalty = assets.
You tax income, you tax the productive people.
You tax assets, you tax the entrenched.
You know which side your bread is buttered on.
I'll give you that much, SLOG readers.
14
Goldy ftw.
What @10 said. Eliminate the cap, eliminate carried interest, all income subject to taxation, other than sale of own home and car.
Problem solved. The average CEO pays about one-fifth what a barista pays as a percentage of income, and does more harm to the US economy.
What @10 said. Eliminate the cap, eliminate carried interest, all income subject to taxation, other than sale of own home and car.
Problem solved. The average CEO pays about one-fifth what a barista pays as a percentage of income, and does more harm to the US economy.
16
#14, #15
You and Goldy are obvious.
You are Courtiers to the House of Washington.
As they perfume themselves at Versailles, you dance, sing and plot to keep the Entrepreneurs at bay, by enacting egregious taxes for the Crown.
Yet, you would never tax a Castle.
You and Goldy are obvious.
You are Courtiers to the House of Washington.
As they perfume themselves at Versailles, you dance, sing and plot to keep the Entrepreneurs at bay, by enacting egregious taxes for the Crown.
Yet, you would never tax a Castle.
17
I'm sorry, all you liberals were only just arguing that SS was solvent and any claims of a 'crisis' were rightwing propaganda. But put a freebie out in front of you and I see you all drop that bone quick.
19
I've been for scrapping the cap on payroll tax income since the dawn of forever.
The very notion that it still exists is 'Exhibit A' that our government is controlled by the rich.
The very notion that it still exists is 'Exhibit A' that our government is controlled by the rich.
20
- If you take grandma's house by taxing it to fund her retirement benefits, turn to comment #13.
- If you normally ignore SRotU's bullshit, turn to comment #16.
- If you normally ignore SRotU's bullshit, turn to comment #16.
21
Never have understood why the arbitrary cap number was there in the first place. There should no exemption. It makes as much sense as exempting those that hold handicapped parking permits from paying to park. Have never understood that either. Are they all poor?
22
@ 17 We never said that you probably were not paying attention but makes sense you are a right winger. We want this to be the solution to the crisis rather than cutting benefits to the poor. Why do I get the feeling your one of those Republicans who isn't rich but think they will be tomorrow? Probably not going to happen.
23
@22 not rich but paid 30% of my income in income, property and ss taxes last year so am tired of hearing the moocher class whine they need more. How about saying thank you for what we give you now?
24
why don't we do the cap the opposite way.... you are exempt on the first X of your income (figure out the math so it has enough to be solvent for the next 300 years) and then pay the 6.2% on the rest of your income?? oh wait because the rich would have to contribute to society then.
26
Would an increase in the amount paid result in a proportional increase in the amount paid back? If so, seems fair to me. If not, why not?
27
Now look what you have done. You've got the troll all agitated, and that's sure to have ruined his dinner. I bet he won't even touch his rice pudding.
28
With regards to the question of whether or not Social Security is insolvent. The cry that it is insolvent is based on two issues:
1) the falling ratio between those paying into the system to those receiving benefits. Worst case scenario I recall is that at some point 10-30 yrs from now it will drop to 4 to 1. Raising or eliminating the cap erases that problem, though you'd likely have to cap or means test benefit payouts for high income earners.
2) The confusion over who owns the US debt. The Social Security Trust Fund owns 16.7% of it, US Military Retirement fund 2.4%, US individuals and institutions own 30.4%, big bad evil China (& Hong Kong) owns 8.1%. *source: U.S. Treasury Department January 2013
Here is how it works. Social Security takes in more then it pays out every year always has. The excess money Social Security takes in is invested in US Treasury bonds. Why? Because the fucking world agrees it is the safest and most stable investment to make on the fucking planet.
Social Security is at risk at the moment only because, since Reagan, the borrow and spend Republican party has declared that deficits only matter when they don't hold the Presidency.
"The deficit is big enough to take care of itself"- Ronald Reagan, "Deficits don't matter"- Dick Chaney. Budget surplus we don't need no stinking budget surplus. Lets give it all away and start two wars then run them off the books till I'm out of the White House - George W. Bush.
George H.W. Bush is the only exception to this rule and the Republicans threw him under the bus when he dared tax instead of borrow (from Social Security) in order to make Reagan's fiscal policies work.
Social Security is not part of the Federal Deficit. Social Security is the lender, it owns it, it is to Social Security that the money is owed.
Yes we should raise/eliminate the cap on Social Security but the deficit isn't why. Lowering the percentage we all have to pay into it is.
We should also pray that the notion of fiscal conservatism returns to the political party that likes to call itself Conservative.
*Japan holds 7% of our debt, Oil Exporters 1.7%, Brazil 1.6%, the UK 0.9%.........
More...
1) the falling ratio between those paying into the system to those receiving benefits. Worst case scenario I recall is that at some point 10-30 yrs from now it will drop to 4 to 1. Raising or eliminating the cap erases that problem, though you'd likely have to cap or means test benefit payouts for high income earners.
2) The confusion over who owns the US debt. The Social Security Trust Fund owns 16.7% of it, US Military Retirement fund 2.4%, US individuals and institutions own 30.4%, big bad evil China (& Hong Kong) owns 8.1%. *source: U.S. Treasury Department January 2013
Here is how it works. Social Security takes in more then it pays out every year always has. The excess money Social Security takes in is invested in US Treasury bonds. Why? Because the fucking world agrees it is the safest and most stable investment to make on the fucking planet.
Social Security is at risk at the moment only because, since Reagan, the borrow and spend Republican party has declared that deficits only matter when they don't hold the Presidency.
"The deficit is big enough to take care of itself"- Ronald Reagan, "Deficits don't matter"- Dick Chaney. Budget surplus we don't need no stinking budget surplus. Lets give it all away and start two wars then run them off the books till I'm out of the White House - George W. Bush.
George H.W. Bush is the only exception to this rule and the Republicans threw him under the bus when he dared tax instead of borrow (from Social Security) in order to make Reagan's fiscal policies work.
Social Security is not part of the Federal Deficit. Social Security is the lender, it owns it, it is to Social Security that the money is owed.
Yes we should raise/eliminate the cap on Social Security but the deficit isn't why. Lowering the percentage we all have to pay into it is.
We should also pray that the notion of fiscal conservatism returns to the political party that likes to call itself Conservative.
*Japan holds 7% of our debt, Oil Exporters 1.7%, Brazil 1.6%, the UK 0.9%.........
29
Goldy you pinko distributionist...
Quit trying to steal people's hard-earned money.
Let industrious people EARN their own money. Let government CREATE CONDITIONS that allow that.
You can't tax your way to prosperity.
Quit trying to steal people's hard-earned money.
Let industrious people EARN their own money. Let government CREATE CONDITIONS that allow that.
You can't tax your way to prosperity.
30
@29 We've been not taxing people for more than 10 years now, Gene. Yet still no prosperity. Maybe it 's time for a different approach.
31
As to those who yammer about us being commies: I've maxed out in both Canada Pension Plan and in Social Security. Maxed.
I could literally stop working and still collect the same maximum benefit under both systems.
Get rid of the cap.
I could literally stop working and still collect the same maximum benefit under both systems.
Get rid of the cap.
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