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Wednesday, March 6, 2013

The Catholic Church? Officially Irrelevant

Posted by on Wed, Mar 6, 2013 at 8:57 AM

A national poll conducted by the New York Times and CBS has found something every America politician must remember: The leaders claiming to represent America's 77 million Catholics represent a fraction of those people.

In fact, it's the very issues that the Catholic Church has been out front on—their crusade to stymie gay families, build a Checkpoint Charlie outside every uterus, and operate an underground railroad for pedophile priests—on which the church's leaders speak least for the flock. From ordination of women to gay marriage, American Catholics are way ahead of their hierarchy:

Seven of 10 Catholics polled said the next pope should let priests marry, let women become priests and allow the use of artificial methods of birth control. Nine of 10 said they wanted the next pope to allow the use of condoms to prevent the spread of H.I.V. and other diseases.

Sixty-two percent of Catholics said they were in favor of legalizing marriage for same-sex couples. Catholics approved of same-sex marriage at a higher rate than Americans as a whole, among whom 53 percent approved.

John Sadel, 28, a supervisor in a plastics production facility in Bethlehem, Pa., said, “I’m not saying change everything the church stands for, but you need to evolve with the times if you want to remain a viable religion.”

Catholic leaders have claimed to speak for one-quarter of the country, acting on behalf of tens of millions of Americans who purportedly think women and gays deserve to live a second-class life. The hierarchy claims it's got authority to interpret the word of God. And what Catholics are saying—and I don't think this can be overstated—is that they don't think that the bigoted pope and sure as hell not the neo-con US Conference of Catholic Bishops can divine how the scriptures apply to American life.

One of the most interesting parts of the entire poll was the question of who is "more in touch." The least "in touch" in the entire Catholic Church are the bishops. These are the people who were at the forefront of efforts to stop gay marriage in four states last fall (Minnesota, Maine, Maryland, and Washington). These are the bishops who stood up at the DNC and made thinly veiled attacks on a woman's reproductive freedom and gay rights. These are the bishops suing to let Catholic-affiliated institutions, like hospitals and universities, opt out of health care obligations because it violates their moral conscience.

Well American Catholics are only listening to their own moral conscience on the leading issues facing the church. With the exception of opposing abortion, their moral conscience is mostly liberal.

And guess what? The radicalized bishops have the least moral authority of anyone in the church—only 38 percent said they were in touch.

The only Catholic leaders with considered markedly "in touch" were US priests and, by far and away with 72 percent, "your parish priests." What have we seen from our parish priests? They're the ones who have been dissenting from the bishops: Seattle priests have stood up to defend the "feminist" nuns and they have blasted their bishops' attempt to turn masses into anti-gay organizing meetings.

The bishops are going to stick their fingers in their ears at this news. They're probably going to elect another pope just as Victorian as the last one while praying to sky-daddy that they can drive godless, baby-murdering, faggot-hugging Americans to all become protestants. But they can pray all they want, because if they don't speak for their own church, they don't speak for anyone. After years of duping the Obama Administration into compromise and scaring Congress into thinking that these bishops represent a massive bloc of voters, this should confirm that they don't: They can officially be ignored.

 

Comments (23) RSS

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Sir Vic 1
Traditionally, the RC church has "stayed in touch" by co-opting a group's historical heroes and traditions. That's where all these saints and holy days came from. Do they need to canonize Ronald Reagan, MLK & Joe DiMaggio to keep America in the fold?
Posted by Sir Vic on March 6, 2013 at 9:26 AM
Urgutha Forka 2
If a world-wide poll were taken, the results would probably be a lot more conservative.

The United States sees the catholic church as irrelevent, and I suspect the feeling is mutual.
Posted by Urgutha Forka on March 6, 2013 at 9:26 AM
Pope Peabrain 3
It's ironic that American politicians care more about what Catholics think than their own church does.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on March 6, 2013 at 9:38 AM
Matt from Denver 4
@ 3, that's what comes with being the nation's single largest denomination, and one with international power as well. Politicians will genuflect, even if the actual members don't.
Posted by Matt from Denver on March 6, 2013 at 9:45 AM
Pick1 5
Most American Catholics believe in their own moral compass over the teachings of the Pope and very few believe the pope is infallible.

And yet they still scream: BUT WITHOUT RELIGION HOW CAN WE HAVE A MORAL COMPASS?

I must now infer that Religion is showing us what NOT to do...
Posted by Pick1 on March 6, 2013 at 9:46 AM
6
This is why it's such a disgrace that every time any mainstream media outlet (especially cable news of course) mentions anything related to the church they have to get a quote or appearance from Timothy Dolan or Bill Fucking Donahue. It makes me sick that Timothy Dolan might actually BECOME THE POPE too.
Posted by fsb on March 6, 2013 at 9:51 AM
raindrop 7
Hope your ear gets better.
Posted by raindrop on March 6, 2013 at 9:57 AM
Dr_Awesome 8
And further, note how many Catholics use birth control. The days of the huge catholic broods are mostly long gone.

And yet, while the Church mostly turns a blind eye to its members' use of birth control, the members also put NO PRESSURE on the leadership to change.

NONE.

As Dan points out in his NALT posts, its long past time for the everyday catholic churchgoers to stop hiding behind their flaming hypocracy and SPEAK THE FUCK UP about this.
Posted by Dr_Awesome on March 6, 2013 at 10:01 AM
Confluence 9
It's probably a big wake-up call, I know, but: America is NOT the world. It's this kind of worldview that makes the world take us for assholes. Most Catholics in the world likely don't agree with American Catholics. Get out much?
Posted by Confluence on March 6, 2013 at 10:17 AM
10
I was smugly happy as I read the article, but was disappointed (appalled?) when I read that, when asked to list the number one problem the church needs to address, the top 4 responses had to do with membership and cohesion. Confronting the rape of children ranked #4.

Is this because people think enough is being done, or the problem isn't that bad, or they're in denial? Whatever it is, it disgusts me that doing something about sexual abuse isn't the number 1 thing on the list. Alas, religion will always be about expanding the in-group. Wish ethics came first instead.
Posted by wxPDX on March 6, 2013 at 10:17 AM
11
edit: top 3
Posted by wxPDX on March 6, 2013 at 10:18 AM
Dominic Holden 12
@9) That's why this whole post is about American Catholics, specifically the political agenda of the US Conference of Catholic Bishops.
Posted by Dominic Holden on March 6, 2013 at 10:21 AM
13
@6,

Calm down -- you have as much chance of becoming pope as Dolan does. They just throw his name around to pretend that there's an American in contention.
Posted by Fr0zt on March 6, 2013 at 10:25 AM
Pope Peabrain 14
@4 And it highlights each institution's structure. Government is from the people- up and the church is from the top- down. Government responds to changing environments, attitudes and needs. The church is never changing, staid, solid. You have to wonder if they don't reflect some dual human need. Or if it reflects human social evolution.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on March 6, 2013 at 10:47 AM
15
Amazingly enough, 77 million American Catholic are only a tiny percentage of Catholics worldwide, so for some reason the College of Cardinals probably isn't going to pay much attention to what they want.
It's so Amerocentric that all American media seem to view the Papal election the same as an American election, and can't conceive of cultures outside America having influence or mattering. They also don't seem to understand that no matter who is elected the next pope the teachings of the church won't change, no matter how hard they wish or how many words they write. Something something about absolute truth and no moral relativism or whatnot.
Posted by bruski on March 6, 2013 at 10:57 AM
16
@5 "Most American Catholics believe in their own moral compass over the teachings of the Pope and very few believe the pope is infallible."

You are aware, as Catholics generally are, that the Pope isn't infallible on a day to day basis, but only in those statements where he invokes it?

For instance, no pope has proclaimed the Church's teaching on abortion in a specific ex cathedra statement declaring it as an essential matter of faith and infallibly true, so in so far as American Catholics disagree they are not butting against papal infallibility.

Further, your argument whole argument is somewhat specious, as the Catholic Church has always held to the primacy of conscience and taught that individuals must follow their consciences even when they are wrong. So, in so far as American Catholics trust their conscience, informed by church teaching, over specific church teaching, that is actually in line with an essential part of church teaching.

Certainly, there are real problems with the Catholic Church and with many religious urges in human beings, but your specific critique seems flawed.
Posted by Taking You To Church! on March 6, 2013 at 11:00 AM
17
@16. I love how getting taken to church just does not have the same bite as being taken to school. I guess it is because schools are about being right and church is for convincing rubes to believe your line if bs.
Posted by Kansas boy on March 6, 2013 at 11:21 AM
john t 18
Talking about Catholic clergy being "in touch" gives me an icky feeling. Please stop using that metaphor.

And it boggles the mind that anybody continues to believe that the world's largest international child-rapist protection racket has any moral credibility on any topic — and especially that a bunch of creepy unmarried "celibate" boy-raping priests should be taken seriously when they dispense advice about sexual morality.
Posted by john t on March 6, 2013 at 11:33 AM
19
#5 - the doctrine of papal infallibility is almost always misunderstood, even by Catholics. No pope has made an "infallible" declaration since 1950. Neither Ratzinger nor John Paul II have done or said anything that is considered infallible.
Posted by catsnbanjos on March 6, 2013 at 11:39 AM
20
@19
And the 1950 declaration was the one proclaiming that the Virgin Mary did not have a physical death, but was, instead, assumed bodily into Heaven.

So it must be true.
Posted by Clayton on March 6, 2013 at 11:57 AM
21
The Catholics I know are all very liberal -- vote for Dems, have no problem with gay rights, abortion, birth control. Not sure why the Catholic hierarchy is insisting on being so conservative and rigid.

That's not a way to grow your church or keep it relevant in a secular country.
Posted by Patricia Kayden on March 6, 2013 at 12:23 PM
Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In 22
The European solution has simply been to leave. Church attendance & income is busy crashing, w/ churches standing empty for years. American Catholics don't seem to be taking that route, at least not on the level of Europe.

What I got out of the article was that US Catholics are more interested in keeping their church but bending it to their will than they are of simply leaving.

I'd be interested in reading an article about Central & South American Catholics, how they've handled this. They have their own unique history, and have already experienced what the US is getting now: A very pro-human priesthood against a very authoritarian hierarchy (and in the past, often in bed w/ the current dictator).
Posted by Some Old Nobodaddy Logged In on March 6, 2013 at 2:20 PM
Pope Peabrain 23
@22 Good cop/bad cop way to pull the wool over their eyes.
Posted by Pope Peabrain on March 6, 2013 at 2:28 PM

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