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News & ArtsTuesday, March 5, 2013
Transportation Swiss Army Knives Will Be Allowed on Planes Next Month: What Do You Think?
Posted by Paul Constant on Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 1:45 PM
Our old friends at Fox News say:
The Transportation Security Administration announced Tuesday that U.S. airline passengers will soon be allowed to carry small knives in their carry-on bags, a move that prompted swift condemnation from a flight attendants union.
The union for Southwest Airlines flight attendants called the decision "dangerous" and "designed to make the lives of TSA staff easier, but not make flights safer."
So by the end of April, you'll be able to bring folding knives with "blades no longer than 2.36 inches" on planes.
3
Box cutters worked once but wouldn't work again, now that passengers are alert to the danger. Passengers are all thinking "should we rush the highjacker, and take the risk being hurt/killed by him, or should we sit still and take the risk he might kill us all in a crash?" For the highjacker to keep the passengers in line, he needs a scary, manifestly lethal weapon. A gun, a machete. Yes, he could kill you with his boxcutter or his swiss army knife, but probably not, or at least not instantly, and not while the other passengers are trying to rush him, too.
7
Just by way of clarification, a Swiss Army Knife has a blade that's longer than 2.36". Don't listen to Slog — you can't take one of them on a plane.
9
I believe it was later learned that the infamous "box cutters" were actually Leatherman style utility knives.
Even so, I don't feel the country is any safer for having confiscated a keychain knife from me a decade ago.
Even so, I don't feel the country is any safer for having confiscated a keychain knife from me a decade ago.
10
Size matters, at least to soothe your feelings of inadequacy, eh 5280?
My Swiss Army executive knives have blades measuring a tick over an inch long.
Plus tiny scissors, nail file, and retractable ball point pen. Very handy. Oh, and depressing the Victorinox logo makes a tiny flashlight light up. All in a package less than 1.8 inches total.
My Swiss Army executive knives have blades measuring a tick over an inch long.
Plus tiny scissors, nail file, and retractable ball point pen. Very handy. Oh, and depressing the Victorinox logo makes a tiny flashlight light up. All in a package less than 1.8 inches total.
12
Oh, and I have several, enough that almost any pair of pants I grab usually has one still in a pocket. I forget how many times I've forgotten about one, packed my pants in my carry-on, and found one of the knives after unpacking at the end of a flight.
TSA either can't spot 'em or doesn't give a fuck.
TSA either can't spot 'em or doesn't give a fuck.
13
I have a Swiss army knife on my keyring. Whole thing is less than two inches long. It's been driving me mad for 10 years that I have to remove it and leave it at home every time I fly or they take it off me. It wouldn't peel an apple, that's how dangerous it is.
17
@11 Yeah, but couldn't they mix innocent seeming liquids to cause a chemical reaction that would release massive amounts of toxic vapors? Even with the oxygen masks, there'd be a significant flight disruption and, potentially, serious health consequences.
19
I flew recently and saw signs at the security line saying something like "Hey kids, you don't have to take off your shoes anymore!". Wouldn't a smart terrorist think I'll turn my underwear bomb into a shoe bomb and make my kid wear it? Nothing that is done is even worth pondering, it's all stupid nonsense and showmanship...and so I ponder...
At a sneak preview to a movie the other night I was astounded that they had security with wands (which I think detected electronic devices on people) and every single person with a cell phone had to check it at the door. Yet in the aftermath of the Batman movie theater massacre, when people suggested theaters should have metal detectors and personnel to check for guns people thought that would be way too invasive. A "Gun Free Zone" sign is worthless without the equipment to guarantee that the zone is indeed gun free. Why not just have "Gun Free Zone" signs at the airport and skip all that security nonsense...works so well at schools.
At a sneak preview to a movie the other night I was astounded that they had security with wands (which I think detected electronic devices on people) and every single person with a cell phone had to check it at the door. Yet in the aftermath of the Batman movie theater massacre, when people suggested theaters should have metal detectors and personnel to check for guns people thought that would be way too invasive. A "Gun Free Zone" sign is worthless without the equipment to guarantee that the zone is indeed gun free. Why not just have "Gun Free Zone" signs at the airport and skip all that security nonsense...works so well at schools.
20
I want to go back to 1965 when you simply walked out to the plane you were getting on and got on. It was so extremely rare, it never would occur to anyone to take measures against those who would hi-jack a plane or threaten the plane's personnel to advance a political cause because it was unthinkable to do such a thing. Life wasn't cheap - at least if you were in the classes who could afford airline travel.
But then I think - 1965 wasn't so great for women (coffee, tea, or me, y'know), or for people of color, or for gay people most certainly. But I've often wondered where we went so wrong. When did life get so threatening, dangerous, and crass? Was it something we did or didn't do? Is there anything I could have done that would have changed anything? Will things continue to get worse in this regard or might there be a reversal someday and people start respecting and valuing each other?
By the way, has anyone read the new proposals for flight pricing structures based on things such as frequent flying, seat location within the same cabin (e.g., more for an aisle seat), etc? I know the airline business is one of the worst business to be in because of operational expenses and very low margins. But if you've always thought it was kind of screwy that your seat cost $99 and the guy next to you paid $416 for his (or vice versa), well, get ready for a lot more of that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/opinio…
But then I think - 1965 wasn't so great for women (coffee, tea, or me, y'know), or for people of color, or for gay people most certainly. But I've often wondered where we went so wrong. When did life get so threatening, dangerous, and crass? Was it something we did or didn't do? Is there anything I could have done that would have changed anything? Will things continue to get worse in this regard or might there be a reversal someday and people start respecting and valuing each other?
By the way, has anyone read the new proposals for flight pricing structures based on things such as frequent flying, seat location within the same cabin (e.g., more for an aisle seat), etc? I know the airline business is one of the worst business to be in because of operational expenses and very low margins. But if you've always thought it was kind of screwy that your seat cost $99 and the guy next to you paid $416 for his (or vice versa), well, get ready for a lot more of that:
http://www.nytimes.com/2013/03/04/opinio…
21
I flew recently and saw signs at the security line saying something like "Hey kids, you don't have to take off your shoes anymore!". Wouldn't a smart terrorist think I'll turn my underwear bomb into a shoe bomb and make my kid wear it? Nothing that is done is even worth pondering, it's all stupid nonsense and showmanship...and so I ponder...
At a sneak preview to a movie the other night I was astounded that they had security with wands (which I think detected electronic devices on people) and every single person with a cell phone had to check it at the door. Yet in the aftermath of the Batman movie theater massacre, when people suggested theaters should have metal detectors and personnel to check for guns people thought that would be way too invasive. A "Gun Free Zone" sign is worthless without the equipment to guarantee that the zone is indeed gun free. Why not just have "Gun Free Zone" signs at the airport and skip all that security nonsense...works so well at schools.
At a sneak preview to a movie the other night I was astounded that they had security with wands (which I think detected electronic devices on people) and every single person with a cell phone had to check it at the door. Yet in the aftermath of the Batman movie theater massacre, when people suggested theaters should have metal detectors and personnel to check for guns people thought that would be way too invasive. A "Gun Free Zone" sign is worthless without the equipment to guarantee that the zone is indeed gun free. Why not just have "Gun Free Zone" signs at the airport and skip all that security nonsense...works so well at schools.
22
It only took them 11 years to figure out that locking the cockpit door and refusing to capitulate would solve the problem of highjacking? Genius!
Well, the important thing is that that billions of dollars were channelled through TSA to Michael Chertoff's buddies and the other 0.01%ers. Thank God the people who matter got paid! We can only hope they shared a bottle of Chateau Lafite with Pheebles.
Well, the important thing is that that billions of dollars were channelled through TSA to Michael Chertoff's buddies and the other 0.01%ers. Thank God the people who matter got paid! We can only hope they shared a bottle of Chateau Lafite with Pheebles.
23
I'm with @11, & 13 -- I carry the small Swiss Army knife "Signature Lite" with the pen and flashlight, and I use the damn thing every single day. It's my most handy tool. I fucking hate having to leave it at home (or risk confiscation) when I fly. I generally resort to carrying the SwissTech UtiliKey on flights, just to have something semi-functional. But it's a far cry from what I actually need to use. So yeah, happy that this is changing.
But they should really get on the toothpastes and fluids thing. Or, maybe, you know, bust these plots before they occur, like they have before, and should have the on 9/11, since the intel was already there.
But they should really get on the toothpastes and fluids thing. Or, maybe, you know, bust these plots before they occur, like they have before, and should have the on 9/11, since the intel was already there.
24
@17 is actually right. The "no" liquids thing is the only thing the TSA has done that actually makes sense. Not just because of binary explosives. How about a water bottle filled with gasoline?
Years before 9/11 I was on a small palne out of Dillingham AK once where a drunk fellow passenger went nuts and tried to drink his bottle of white gas camp stove fuel. In his craziness he spit that shit all over about eight people.
Again. Highly flammable white gas. On an un-pressurized twin engine plane. Filled with people wearing polyfill and pile fleece outdoor wear. The slightest static spark... KABOOM.
That made a fucking terrifying thirty minutes let me tell you.
Years before 9/11 I was on a small palne out of Dillingham AK once where a drunk fellow passenger went nuts and tried to drink his bottle of white gas camp stove fuel. In his craziness he spit that shit all over about eight people.
Again. Highly flammable white gas. On an un-pressurized twin engine plane. Filled with people wearing polyfill and pile fleece outdoor wear. The slightest static spark... KABOOM.
That made a fucking terrifying thirty minutes let me tell you.
25
Re answer 2: Nothing stops anyone from bringing on box cutters, it turns out. A Quaker can do it.
26
@20 - Well between 1965 and today the human population has doubled to around 7 billion, I would imagine that is a seed factor leading to other things, such as gross political inequality, access to mass transportation, and the desire by small groups to use violence to bring down 'The Man's' authority regime.
27
@24 - Except that white gas doesn't explode. Just like diesel doesn't explode. It's just lights on fire. Which is, of course, a terrible thing in a small airplane cabin. But it doesn't explode. That's why it's a great camping stove fuel.
28
@23, you can mail it to yourself from SeaTac. My husband had to do this the one time I forgot to remind him to check his leatherman. It's $10 but better than losing it.
29
For chemicals, use dogs. They can sniff out *anything* you train them to. They're cheap, practical & nearly fool-proof.
Which is why, of course, Americans aren't interested. Our leaders, both elected (the government) and non-elected (corporations) aren't interested in getting things done, they're interested in fleecing more money from the populace (you & me).
We are seeing the end-game of the American Empire, as the goal is no longer "being successful", but being a host to the parasites. Thus we have ludicrous entities like the TSA which only produce anger & frustration, taking our tax dollars, and offering zilch in the form of security.
Which is why, of course, Americans aren't interested. Our leaders, both elected (the government) and non-elected (corporations) aren't interested in getting things done, they're interested in fleecing more money from the populace (you & me).
We are seeing the end-game of the American Empire, as the goal is no longer "being successful", but being a host to the parasites. Thus we have ludicrous entities like the TSA which only produce anger & frustration, taking our tax dollars, and offering zilch in the form of security.
30
I've flown with a tiny Swiss Army knife in my carry-on several times over the past few years. I think they never see it on X-ray. (And I forget it's there as well). The mouthwash and Purell they usually catch, and those are in the same zippered pocket as the knife. Curious.
31
A large part of the reason the September Hijacking was successful was that it was understood that if you cooperate with the hijackers, you'll be safe. Between a locked cockpit and passengers no longer thinking their safe if they cooperate, I'd almost want to see someone try and hijack a plane with a knife again, just for how poorly it'd go for them.
32
I routinely carry a small pocket knife on me all the time, just for opening packages and cutting tape and things like that. Super handy. It's got a blade about 1.5 inches long.
Since 9/11, I've probably brought it with me in my bag on at least a dozen flights, and TSA hasn't noticed it a single time.
Soi, yeah, ban them or don't. Makes no difference.
Since 9/11, I've probably brought it with me in my bag on at least a dozen flights, and TSA hasn't noticed it a single time.
Soi, yeah, ban them or don't. Makes no difference.
33
The locked cockpit door was probably the most effective anti-hijacking tool post-9/11.
I always thought it was ridiculous that from the early days after 9/11 until recently the TSA didn't allow sharp objects like knitting needles and nail files, but had no problem with pens. Anyone who's seen a movie or two (ie, "GoodFellas", "The Dark Knight") knows you can inflict as much damage on a person with a Mont Blanc pen as you can with a nail file, but one was prohibited and the other allowed.
And has been noted in other comments, anyone trying to use (or actually using) a small sharp object to threaten, injure, or kill a flight attendant during a hijacking attempt is going to get his ass handed to him on a plastic tray by the other passengers.
Speaking of which - and on the same principle - can we *finally* have real cutlery for those increasingly rare in-flight meals? Pleeze?
I always thought it was ridiculous that from the early days after 9/11 until recently the TSA didn't allow sharp objects like knitting needles and nail files, but had no problem with pens. Anyone who's seen a movie or two (ie, "GoodFellas", "The Dark Knight") knows you can inflict as much damage on a person with a Mont Blanc pen as you can with a nail file, but one was prohibited and the other allowed.
And has been noted in other comments, anyone trying to use (or actually using) a small sharp object to threaten, injure, or kill a flight attendant during a hijacking attempt is going to get his ass handed to him on a plastic tray by the other passengers.
Speaking of which - and on the same principle - can we *finally* have real cutlery for those increasingly rare in-flight meals? Pleeze?
34
Well you can slit someone's throat with a 2.3" knife, or boxcutter. And hold someone hostage. Well there's no point to the TSA then unless it's to keep people from bringing explosives onto planes.
And why exactly is it a bigger deal for explosives to be snuck onto planes than explosives being snuck into a movie theater, a cafe, a disco, a govt building, a school, a bus, . . ?
I don't get it, we've all been used to the TSA not allowing blades on planes and I thought we all understood why, just fine, with no fuss. TSA went totally robust after 9/11 because of the hijackers with boxcutters, so this makes no damn sense to me
And why exactly is it a bigger deal for explosives to be snuck onto planes than explosives being snuck into a movie theater, a cafe, a disco, a govt building, a school, a bus, . . ?
I don't get it, we've all been used to the TSA not allowing blades on planes and I thought we all understood why, just fine, with no fuss. TSA went totally robust after 9/11 because of the hijackers with boxcutters, so this makes no damn sense to me
36
The whole point of banning blades over four inches long was because it used to be possible to break into cockpits with such blades. That problem was fixed within two years of the 9/11 attacks.
This is long, long overdue.
@35 Only if the wielder knew exactly what you were doing, exactly where to strike and exactly how hard to push could someone kill another person with such a short blade. Actually hurting someone is a lot harder than it looks in the movies.
This is long, long overdue.
@35 Only if the wielder knew exactly what you were doing, exactly where to strike and exactly how hard to push could someone kill another person with such a short blade. Actually hurting someone is a lot harder than it looks in the movies.
37
@34 Because people can run out of a movie theater or jump off of a bus. People can't do that with a plane. Also, the plane itself works as a pretty effective bomb if a hijacker is willing to actually crash it into something.
38
Wrong - My wife just had her Classic Key chain Swiss Army Knife confiscated in mid-June 2013 prior to a flight from Pensacola, FL to Oklahoma City.
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