Slog
News & ArtsTuesday, March 5, 2013
Religion Calling All NALTs: Sick of the Anti-Gay Religious Right? Then Do Something About It.
Posted by Dan Savage on Tue, Mar 5, 2013 at 4:53 PM
You all remember Matthew Vines, right? NYT:
At 22, Mr. Vines has emerged as an unlikely advocate (and lightning rod) for those straddling one of the most volatile fault lines in America’s culture war: homosexual Christians. As the country rushed to take sides over Chick-fil-A, J. C. Penney, the Boy Scouts and Michele Bachmann, Mr. Vines took a leave of absence from Harvard, where he was studying philosophy, to offer a lesson on the Bible and same-sex relations.... The medium for Mr. Vines’s message is a lecture that he delivered, videotaped and posted to YouTube in March. In it, Mr. Vines tackles the traditional interpretations of all six Bible passages that refer to homosexual acts, arguing that they don’t actually condemn, or even address, the modern understanding of homosexuality. It is a dense and scholarly presentation, drawing from history, theology, hermeneutics and ancient Greek. It is also suffused with emotion, particularly when Mr. Vines pleads with viewers to consider the plight of the modern gay Christian, who is effectively forced into celibacy.
Vines' video was posted here on Slog shortly after he uploaded it to YouTube and Sloggers helped it go viral. Today Vines announced his new project:
"I wanted to let you know that my non-profit, The Reformation Project, has officially launched," Matthew Vines writes me in an email. "We've started a crowdfunding campaign to fund our first leadership training conference for 50 gay and straight Christians in Kansas City this fall, and while we're 10% of the way to our goal so far, we still have a long way to go to make it happen.... You've long justifiably expressed frustration that pro-gay Christians are MIA—they exist, but so much more quietly than the anti-gay ones. The Reformation Project is going to change that in a big way. If you're willing to bring it to your readers' attention during this first campaign, it would be a significant boon to us as we're getting off the ground. More info is here: www.reformationproject.org."
Vines has set an ambitious fundraising goal—$100,000—but his project is worthy and necessary.
I know there are a lot of progressive Christians out there who read Slog. We hear from you whenever we post something about Tony Perkins or Peter LaBarbera or Bryan Fischer. You are rightly embarrassed by the hatred and stupidity of rightwing evangelical haters who claim to speak for all Christians and you write to remind us that you're not all like that. We know, liberal Christians, we know. But here's a good way to prove you're not all like that: help fight the religious right's largely successful effort to paint all Christians everywhere as intolerant assholes by tossing a few bucks at the Reformation Project.
1
Money sent. Message added. Hope this helps get the message out that there are options for LGBT folks and their supportive families who want to be a part of a faith community that accepts everyone and doesn't discriminate.
3
so Danny wants Vines' interpretation of the Bible to be writ into US law?
a regular homohumanist theocracy?
Americans have the right not to have Vines' interpretation of the Bible, or anyone else's interpretation of the Bible, writ into US law.
a regular homohumanist theocracy?
Americans have the right not to have Vines' interpretation of the Bible, or anyone else's interpretation of the Bible, writ into US law.
4
what kind of limp dicked "xtian" would give a shit about atheist Danny's opinion about religion or the Bible?
sad sad phony uncle toms.....
sad sad phony uncle toms.....
6
come on xtians!
don't be embarrassed by the hatred and stupidity of rightwing evangelical haters who claim to speak for all Christians!!
embrace the hatred and stupidity of LEFTwing homosexual haters who claim to speak for all Christians!!!
wake up and smell the coffee, people!!!
don't be embarrassed by the hatred and stupidity of rightwing evangelical haters who claim to speak for all Christians!!
embrace the hatred and stupidity of LEFTwing homosexual haters who claim to speak for all Christians!!!
wake up and smell the coffee, people!!!
7
oh Danny....
if we toss a few bucks will you and the faghags love us?
who needs the love of Jebus when they can buy Danny's love?
if we toss a few bucks will you and the faghags love us?
who needs the love of Jebus when they can buy Danny's love?
8
Remember Sloggers.
It is very very WRONG to insert the religious views of the rightwing evangelicals into public law.
wrong wrong wrong.
Instead we must insert the religious views of Mr Vines into public law.
Do you see the difference?
It is very very WRONG to insert the religious views of the rightwing evangelicals into public law.
wrong wrong wrong.
Instead we must insert the religious views of Mr Vines into public law.
Do you see the difference?
9
Homosexual "Marriage" should be the law of the land because the Bible.
That; and history, theology, hermeneutics and ancient Greek....
That; and history, theology, hermeneutics and ancient Greek....
11
remember gang, Vines has set an ambitious fundraising goal—$100,000—but his project is worthy and necessary.
Necessary!
Like the War in Afghanistan......
Necessary!
Like the War in Afghanistan......
12
Dude, can you just make one comment? Your crush on Dan is understandable, but your means of expressing it is fucking annoying.
15
At the core of the fight for homosexual rights is the same fight that we all face for human rights and dignity.
Monotheistic religions are inherently authoritarian in nature. the God of the bible, and yes, even Christ, are not about pluralistic secular democracy.
While I understand the temptation to support liberal xtians, the end game never works in the favor of human rights. In the end, the bible is anathema to human rights, open governance and democracy.
There may be strategic reasons to hope for some xtian support now, and perhaps that's all it will be, but it's not a long-term strategy.
Monotheistic religions are inherently authoritarian in nature. the God of the bible, and yes, even Christ, are not about pluralistic secular democracy.
While I understand the temptation to support liberal xtians, the end game never works in the favor of human rights. In the end, the bible is anathema to human rights, open governance and democracy.
There may be strategic reasons to hope for some xtian support now, and perhaps that's all it will be, but it's not a long-term strategy.
16
@15 "Monotheistic religions are inherently authoritarian in nature. the God of the bible, and yes, even Christ, are not about pluralistic secular democracy."
Huh. Wish you would have told that to MLK -- he somehow thought the Bible would set people free. Must've been misled I guess. Wait, same is true of Douglass and Truth and Day and Schweitzer and Tutu and Biko. Shame they were all so wrong.
Huh. Wish you would have told that to MLK -- he somehow thought the Bible would set people free. Must've been misled I guess. Wait, same is true of Douglass and Truth and Day and Schweitzer and Tutu and Biko. Shame they were all so wrong.
17
I maintain that Dan's troll posts with one hand while masturbating furiously with the other. And crying.
19
While I understand what Mr. Vines is trying to do, I refuse to support ANY organized religion in any form. Organized religion is the most evil thing ever invented by man. It's responsible for countless deaths, wars and torture. It has torn families apart. It has destroyed lives and cultures.
Screw this nonsense. Having a few "christians" decide that they should no longer judge, belittle, discriminate against and hate gay people will not change the evil that religion is.
Screw this nonsense. Having a few "christians" decide that they should no longer judge, belittle, discriminate against and hate gay people will not change the evil that religion is.
22
I leave the unregistered comments on, since occasionally they're nit trolls. Heck, even Dan's pet troll can be interesting -- I kinda dig the phrase "a regular homohumanist theocracy."
23
@19, I absolutely totally get what you are saying, and support your right to freedom FROM religion. But there are people out there who want to be part of a faith community, and for them, it adds to their lives. They have a right to worship as they want, and they deserve to have a faith community that believes 100% that EVERYONE is equal. My goal is to let people know that if the church they belong to tells them they need to change, that what they need to change is their church. There are churches that treat everyone with dignity and respect.
24
@ 22, when you read the unregistered comments, are you generally of how many troll posts you encounter, versus how many non troll posts you read? And of the non-troll comments, how many you thought were worth reading?
When I decided to block the unregistered comments, I knew I'd miss some actual good, thoughtful ones from time to time. But I was comfortable with that because my experience was that they made up a very small percentage of the unregistered total. (Also, people who read them are pretty good about pointing out the good comments for the rest of us.)
That said, I know what you mean. Alleged possesses real intelligence and wit. It's too bad he wastes it on trolling, but it would be a lie to say that he isn't funny sometimes.
When I decided to block the unregistered comments, I knew I'd miss some actual good, thoughtful ones from time to time. But I was comfortable with that because my experience was that they made up a very small percentage of the unregistered total. (Also, people who read them are pretty good about pointing out the good comments for the rest of us.)
That said, I know what you mean. Alleged possesses real intelligence and wit. It's too bad he wastes it on trolling, but it would be a lie to say that he isn't funny sometimes.
26
@24: It varies, but I'd say about 3/4ths are trolls, and it can be higher if it's a post by Dan, Charles, or Goldy. Of the nontroll posts, most of them are pretty run-of-the-mill, but I've seen a few gems.
28
@23 I would like to know more Christians who "treat everyone with dignity and respect". I would also like to meet more who disavow faith-based reliance on a book that promotes many atrocities beyond homophobia. Ignoring and reiterpreting the bad parts isn't enough when you continue to uphold the book itself.
30
I don't see much of a future for gay friendly religion. With the notable exception of Iowa, all the states that have marriage equality also have rates of church attendance well below the national average. Does anyone really think that is a coincidence?
31
Oh, come on. Dan's troll can be funny. And he's been around for such a long time. (I wonder how he finds time to do anything else but comment on Dan's posts.)
As an atheist and former Xtian, I also used to blame religion for the ills of the world, but I no longer feel that's a fair conclusion. Wave a magic wand and banish religion and superstition from human history - is life not still a daily struggle for limited resources? Are humans then not beset with various personal failings, such as fear, jealousy, ignorance, rancor, etc.? People are going to do whatever it is they're going to do, religion or not. Religion just provides a convenient excuse for their actions, but they'll still justify it one way or another. Religion doesn't make people "evil", any more than it makes them "good".
As an atheist and former Xtian, I also used to blame religion for the ills of the world, but I no longer feel that's a fair conclusion. Wave a magic wand and banish religion and superstition from human history - is life not still a daily struggle for limited resources? Are humans then not beset with various personal failings, such as fear, jealousy, ignorance, rancor, etc.? People are going to do whatever it is they're going to do, religion or not. Religion just provides a convenient excuse for their actions, but they'll still justify it one way or another. Religion doesn't make people "evil", any more than it makes them "good".
32
@19 - Yeah, that's fine. But this post isn't directed toward you. It's encouraging good people to support a good cause, regardless of the endgame of religion in modern society. You can hate religion all you want (and in many ways you have good cause), but you're gonna have to deal with it. Wouldn't you rather religious people embrace a broader definition of equality than stay buried in hate a homophobia?
33
Crikey, troll. Only 12 comments? C'mon, round it up to a baker's dozen.
Or, to mix metaphors, squirt out that cow and go back to grazing.
Or, to mix metaphors, squirt out that cow and go back to grazing.
34
Several posters in here seem to think that "religion" is a singular, monolithic entity that is always the same and always based on the most authoritarian, oppressive, and violent possible reading of Abrahamic religious texts (that is, the reading supported by precisely two groups: far-right-wing religious extremists, and angry atheists). While I agree in part with TreGibbs in that organized religion is socially problematic, I think a good many people who take this view of religion would be shocked to get a few glimpses of how non-Abrahamic religions in non-Western societies have interacted with the greater society throughout history. We live in a world currently dominated by the Abrahamic trio, at a time and place where more authoritarian interpretations of them are relatively popular. Never deceive yourself into thinking that this has always been the case, nor that it always will be, nor indeed that it is currently the case everywhere.
The dominant religious and philosophical attitudes of a culture tend to be reflective of the general outlook of that culture. The interplay isn't nearly that simple, of course, but acting like religion just swoops in on a culture out of nowhere and takes over without having any sort of cultural foothold is just absurd.
The dominant religious and philosophical attitudes of a culture tend to be reflective of the general outlook of that culture. The interplay isn't nearly that simple, of course, but acting like religion just swoops in on a culture out of nowhere and takes over without having any sort of cultural foothold is just absurd.
35
"Wave a magic wand and banish religion and superstition from human history - is life not still a daily struggle for limited resources?"
True, religion isn't the only cause of the worlds ills. But it is far from blameless.
Cigarette smoking isn't the only cause of lung cancer, but it is still generally good advice to stay away from cigarettes.
But I disagree that religion doesn't make people evil. It doesn't make all people evil, but in some cases it clearly does when it creates a entire culture based on oppression.
To quote Steven Weinberg: "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Ultimately even if religion was all pretty pink paint and beautiful lights, it is still just a light show. It is superstition and the world needs less superstition and more rationality.
True, religion isn't the only cause of the worlds ills. But it is far from blameless.
Cigarette smoking isn't the only cause of lung cancer, but it is still generally good advice to stay away from cigarettes.
But I disagree that religion doesn't make people evil. It doesn't make all people evil, but in some cases it clearly does when it creates a entire culture based on oppression.
To quote Steven Weinberg: "Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."
Ultimately even if religion was all pretty pink paint and beautiful lights, it is still just a light show. It is superstition and the world needs less superstition and more rationality.
36
@ 30, change takes a long time to happen. People seem to need religion more than bigotry, and churches are generally happy to change when confronted with the possibility of losing members (or conversely as a way to attract new ones from more hardline congregations). That's why churches don't really defend slavery and racism these days.
37
@36 It's not that I don't think churches can learn to accept gay people, the Episcopalians have done it. It's that I think that most people who favor gay rights don't have much need for religion. I think the general attitude that promotes acceptance of gay and lesbian people usually leads to a decline in the importance of religious institutions.
38
I'm a big fan of the troll, keeps it interesting. I have unregistered turned on just for him / her / it. Sometimes though, I wonder if it isn't Mr Savage fucking with us. I get the impression that is something he would do just to be a dick and he is laughing at us all.
40
"Looking to earn extra cash online?
When you take a break , go and click some advertises and make some tasks, i use clixsens for 1 hour a day, and I earn about 100 dolars in first week.After you create an acount , invite some friends to join this.you will earn comission from their earnings.
The address is :
http://www.clixsense.com/?5244493
We will talk more on the site.You can ask me for help there.
Payments Via Check, Payza, PayPal and Liberty Reserve
PS: IT IS NOT A VIRUS"
When you take a break , go and click some advertises and make some tasks, i use clixsens for 1 hour a day, and I earn about 100 dolars in first week.After you create an acount , invite some friends to join this.you will earn comission from their earnings.
The address is :
http://www.clixsense.com/?5244493
We will talk more on the site.You can ask me for help there.
Payments Via Check, Payza, PayPal and Liberty Reserve
PS: IT IS NOT A VIRUS"
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
SL Letter of the Day: The Tell-Tale Handjob by Dan Savage
-
Foie Gras Tastes Like Cat Food by Callan Berry
-
GOP Congressman: We Have to Ban Abortion Because Fetuses Are Masturbating In There by Dan Savage
-
Cap Hill Is Becoming a Little Like What? by Charles Mudede
-
SL Letter of the Day: Let Me Think... by Dan Savage
-
Pizza Update: Breaking the 5-Minute Barrier by Goldy
-
President Obama Says NSA Spying Is "Transparent" by Paul Constant
-
Less Than a Quarter of Americans Have Confidence in Newspapers by Eli Sanders
-
Slog Bible Study: Leviticus 20:9 by Goldy
-
The Wednesday Morning News by Goldy
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (40) RSS