Slog
News & ArtsMonday, March 4, 2013
Life Today in Anonymous Ramblings
Posted by David Schmader on Mon, Mar 4, 2013 at 8:41 AM
Sent late last night to I, Anonymous:
I am fucking tired of this bullshit victim blaming you straight “liberals” try to make me swallow. Fuck you. Quit blaming the victims and saying that all homophobic gay bashers and people that commit hate crimes against the gays are secretly homosexual. FUCK YOU! That’s like the bullshit where people claim Hitler was secretly a Jew. The truth is that there are some sadistic assholes out there that look for anything they can to torture and inflict pain on other people because they get a hard-on from the power. You displacing the guilt that you share because you are a part of the dominant paradigm which reinforces the notions that gays are easy targets and no one is going to stick up for them because “they’re the ones causing it” or “bringing it on themselves” just furthers the cycle. Get this straight, the KKK aren’t all secretly black, the Nazis weren’t all secretly Jews, and gay bashers aren’t all secretly gay. Quit blaming the victims for the bullshit being perpetrated by the heterosexual community!
I'm confused.
2
Perhaps I, Anonymous is saying that homophobic people are not undercover homosexuals trying to deflect from their sexual orientation by being overtly homophobic.
I kind of get what he/she means.
I kind of get what he/she means.
3
Except for the "blaming the victim" construct -- The assumption that the gay-basher's gay-ness is what causes them to bash gays misses the point. It's the self-hatred or fear of the different that causes the bashing.
4
Ha, i think this is actually pretty clear. I get a little uncomfortable with constantly "accusing" gay bashers or bigots of being closet gays themselves. It can give the impression that this is just gay on gay violence and not really "our problem". this isn't that different than the idea of "black on black crime" allowing upper middle class white suburbanites living comfortably in their suburbs to to watch the nightly news and reassure themselves, "well at least it isn't our problem".
This isn't to say that self loathing isn't a root cause of some violence against gays (blacks, women, etc.), just that we shouldn't reinforce the impression its the only cause.
This isn't to say that self loathing isn't a root cause of some violence against gays (blacks, women, etc.), just that we shouldn't reinforce the impression its the only cause.
5
Come on, everyone knows the Nazis were in fact all secretly Jews, and they perpetrated the holocaust using gay Blacks as labor.
6
The idea is that when you say gaybashers are gay, you're blaming gay people for gaybashing. (Not the gay gaybashees, the gay gaybashers.) As far as that goes, you're also saying that closeted gay people are evil and violent. So, straight people get off scot-free in all of this; violence against gays is all gay people's fault.
You know what? I totally see what the writer means. This is actually very insightful, and goes a long way to explaining the discomfort I've had with the gaybashers-are-secretly-gay trope. I'd like to see some serious attention to this point, really.
You know what? I totally see what the writer means. This is actually very insightful, and goes a long way to explaining the discomfort I've had with the gaybashers-are-secretly-gay trope. I'd like to see some serious attention to this point, really.
7
@ 2, I kind of get it, too. In this person's view, stating that homophobic gay bashers are actually gay blames gay people who are victims of anti-gay violence.
This makes sense if being attracted to one's own sex were all it took to be part of the LGBT community, AND if the community were a kind of hive instead of one made up of individuals. But neither is true. I'm going to guess that someone has been confused by a college course he or she took.
That said, I'm sure many if not most gay bashers are perfectly straight. You can be taught fear and loathing and violence without having to add repressed homosexuality to the mix.
This makes sense if being attracted to one's own sex were all it took to be part of the LGBT community, AND if the community were a kind of hive instead of one made up of individuals. But neither is true. I'm going to guess that someone has been confused by a college course he or she took.
That said, I'm sure many if not most gay bashers are perfectly straight. You can be taught fear and loathing and violence without having to add repressed homosexuality to the mix.
8
While it is shockingly common for outspoken homophobes to turn out to be closet cases, I think I agree with this rambling rant. The sexuality of the homophobe is pretty much irrelevant to the discussion. Sure, it's hilarious and some of the best schadenfreude around, but it's pretty much the definition of "ad hominem".
Along the same lines, could we all agree to stop making fat jokes about Maggie Gallagher? Actually, that's for several reasons, but I thought I'd bring it up.
Along the same lines, could we all agree to stop making fat jokes about Maggie Gallagher? Actually, that's for several reasons, but I thought I'd bring it up.
10
Poor, poor fella, he can't be his homophobic self, without some people assuming he's gay.
Stop thinking he's gay -- he's not! (Although he's obsessed with the gays enough to think about 'em waaaaaaaaaaaay too much.)
Way more than the heteros who aren't homophobic.
But that proves NOTHING, and it's not fair -- WAH! -- to think he's that AWFUL, AWFUL gay.
It's thought discrimination, that's what it is! You assuming he's gay, just 'cause he's obsessed with the gay.
Way more bad, than gays being discriminated against in actual life situations, that affect their actual lives.
Stop thinking he's gay -- he's not! (Although he's obsessed with the gays enough to think about 'em waaaaaaaaaaaay too much.)
Way more than the heteros who aren't homophobic.
But that proves NOTHING, and it's not fair -- WAH! -- to think he's that AWFUL, AWFUL gay.
It's thought discrimination, that's what it is! You assuming he's gay, just 'cause he's obsessed with the gay.
Way more bad, than gays being discriminated against in actual life situations, that affect their actual lives.
11
Why not? Have you ever heard somebody say they can talk shit about a group because they are one? How about if you talk shit about a group because you are one, but you don't want to be identified with that group?
12
Wow, anon sounds extremely closeted. Perhaps if they had a supportive community to come out to, they can begin to let go of all that anger.
15
@treehugger,
Aren't you doing exactly what I, Anonymous is railing against? How do you know that he's extremely closeted? LOL
Aren't you doing exactly what I, Anonymous is railing against? How do you know that he's extremely closeted? LOL
16
I think we need to split the issue into two concepts, and stop conflating them.
It's true that there are lot of homophobes who are not gay, and a lot of people who are anti-gay because it's what they think they are supposed to do, whether or not they personally care about gay people one way or the other. It's immaterial whether or not they themselves are gay - they are hurting other people who don't deserve to be hurt.
On the other hand, it would be absurd not to notice that many of the most vocal, most vehement, and most violent anti-gay people are compensating for their own self-loathing of their own same-sex attractions.
The point isn't that homophobia is a gay-on-gay thing that straights are therefore free to ignore. It's that one of the many awful outcomes of institutional homophobia is the cascade effect it has in not only hurting gay people directly, but causing all to many to project that self-hatred outward.
it's not an either/or and never should be seen as one. It's both.
It's true that there are lot of homophobes who are not gay, and a lot of people who are anti-gay because it's what they think they are supposed to do, whether or not they personally care about gay people one way or the other. It's immaterial whether or not they themselves are gay - they are hurting other people who don't deserve to be hurt.
On the other hand, it would be absurd not to notice that many of the most vocal, most vehement, and most violent anti-gay people are compensating for their own self-loathing of their own same-sex attractions.
The point isn't that homophobia is a gay-on-gay thing that straights are therefore free to ignore. It's that one of the many awful outcomes of institutional homophobia is the cascade effect it has in not only hurting gay people directly, but causing all to many to project that self-hatred outward.
it's not an either/or and never should be seen as one. It's both.
17
I'd put money down that the vast majority of homophobes meet are one or both of the following:
1- Closeted
2- Micro-penis
and very insecure in their sexual competence, and ability to satisfy a partner (or even themselves).
1- Closeted
2- Micro-penis
and very insecure in their sexual competence, and ability to satisfy a partner (or even themselves).
20
On that note, homophobia is not a fear of anybody. It is a conscious decision to act hatefully towards other human beings. Period.
Please stop excusing homophobes by acting as though their hatred is some sort of uncontrollable disease.
Please stop excusing homophobes by acting as though their hatred is some sort of uncontrollable disease.
21
What's confusing? Liberal jews control the media along with the bilderbergers therefore it's their fault that gays are oppressed, not gay-haters like him who have no political power whatsoever.
It's the usual lazy "Liberals are the true racists, how dare you be intolerant of my intolerance!" idiot speech.
It's the usual lazy "Liberals are the true racists, how dare you be intolerant of my intolerance!" idiot speech.
22
Everyone is a little gay therefore all gay-bashers, homophobes, homophones, and all homogenized milk is also gay.
You're not in a secret up versus them club just because you've made gayness part of your identity.
(almost everyone is also a little bit black. I think you still have to pass a written exam and do 20 hours of community service to be Jewish, but I could be wrong about that.)
You're not in a secret up versus them club just because you've made gayness part of your identity.
(almost everyone is also a little bit black. I think you still have to pass a written exam and do 20 hours of community service to be Jewish, but I could be wrong about that.)
23
As someone who has never seen Unforgiven, Mystic River, Million Dollar Baby or Letters From Iwo Jima, I am sick and tired of people claiming I'm Clint Eastwood.
25
It seems like most of the people I see/hear making cracks about homophobes being secretly gay are gay themselves. So are gay people who are making these comments victim blaming?
Anyway, I agree that most homophobes are not gay (although I take great delight when one is outed), but certainly most have issues with gender, sex, and power. I think you'll find most don't have great attitudes toward women either.
Anyway, I agree that most homophobes are not gay (although I take great delight when one is outed), but certainly most have issues with gender, sex, and power. I think you'll find most don't have great attitudes toward women either.
27
I'm pretty sure the letter writer is gay (or lesbian, or bisexual, or some other non-straight variant), since he/she refers to 'straight “liberals”' -- so he/she probably isn't a closet case gay-basher upset with people calling him/her gay.
He/she might have been drunk when writing that though.
He/she might have been drunk when writing that though.
28
I never actually considered anything like that. I'm going to have to meditate on this to form my thoughts. I appreciate the perspective, at the very least, it is making me question my old standby response to homophobes.
29
I've personally known a few older gay guys who through their youth were rampant gay-bashers only to later come out of the closet. One guy actually told me that while he was beating the shit out of a gay the only thing going through his head was how much he wanted to suck his victim's dick.
30
How else could they believe it was a choice? I know there are some homophobes who don't believe it's a choice, and their homophobia is, gentler?, well, they just demand celibacy or entering into a beard marriage or something. The homophobes who are most violent, who want death and dismemberment of gay people, do believe it's a choice, and that gay people are choosing wrong, and so are to blame. In order to believe it's a choice, they must feel some doubt in their own supposed heterosexuality - it must also have been a choice for them. Right?
31
@27: I doubt it, it mirrors plenty of white conservatives telling blacks that liberals have been keeping them down long enough and conservatives know what's good for them.
32
The writer & many of the commenters here are falling into the same trap, that "gay" is a single, monolithic entity, where every member is pretty much the same as the next. Because everyone knows what we're talking about when we say "gay people," right?
Except, not so much. In fact, no.
Mr. Savage is nothing like J Edgar Hoover. Sure, their sexuality has a strong definition of who they are/were as an adult, but that's where the similarity ends. And it goes for pretty much everyone else.
Except, not so much. In fact, no.
Mr. Savage is nothing like J Edgar Hoover. Sure, their sexuality has a strong definition of who they are/were as an adult, but that's where the similarity ends. And it goes for pretty much everyone else.
Advertisement
Most Commented on Slog
-
Portland Voters Are Stoopid by Goldy
-
An I-5 Bridge Over the Skagit River Has Collapsed by Paul Constant
-
Rightwing Anti-Gay French Activist Commits Suicide at Notre Dame Cathedral by Dan Savage
-
Why They Break Windows by Unpaid Intern
-
Usually When I'm Sent a Photoshopped Image of a Gun Pointed At Me... by Dan Savage
-
Spoiled Rotten: Star Trek Into Darkness by Paul Constant
-
There Are No Atheists In Foxholes by Dan Savage
-
Tornado Truthers by Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: Did You Think I Was Going To Tell You Not To Come Out? (PLUS: Help Free Kate!) by Dan Savage
-
SL Letter of the Day: Have You Ever Heard of...? by Dan Savage
Stranger Personals
The Stranger
RSSSeattle Art & Performance Quarterly
A complete guide to Seattle's current art, film, dance, and theater season.
Facebook
Twitter
Comments (32) RSS