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News & ArtsSunday, March 3, 2013
Politics Public Opinion Changes
Posted by Goldy on Sun, Mar 3, 2013 at 8:54 AM
In 1977, when the Field Poll first started asking the question, Californians opposed legalizing gay marriage by a whopping 59 percent to 28 percent margin. Only a little more than four years ago, Californians banned gay marriage at the polls, approving Proposition 8 by a small but decisive 52.24 percent to 47.76 percent margin.
But in the latest Field Poll, a large majority of Californians now support legalizing gay marriage by a stunning 61 percent 32 percent margin.
Opinions change. It isn't easy, and it can take an awful long time, but opinions change. So the next time you see a Democrat roll their eyes at the notion of even attempting to pass an income tax in Washington State, remember: It's not an act of wise pragmatism. It's an act of political cowardice.
2
The circumstances have to be right for it, and those advocating on it's behalf have to make use of those circumstances.
Washingtonians like the public services our state provides. Many of these services are invisible, in that one notices them primarily in their absence. If DOH is underfunded, for example, it is unable to fend off a pertussis outbreak.
Thus, it can be hard for people to make the connection between cause and effect. If we cut education funding, we will begin to see disastrous effects 20 years later when our workforce is unable to compete with the world. It's a bit like trying to convince a teenager not to smoke. They are unimpressed with tumors that will take decades to form.
And so is the electorate. Tim Eyman succeeds through the use of urgency. What matters is the immediate, not the long-term. You might not even be alive when those effects come about, so why worry? Its better to gorge now and let the future be damned. This works all too well.
We must learn to frame this argument in the moment. And the moment we frame it in has to be one when we are in danger of losing that which we cannot afford to lose.
People who quit smoking after being diagnosed with lung cancer still only have six months at the most. But they at least see things all too clearly, and in the spirit of repentance, act. When they act publicly, others might learn. So if you can find a state that resisted income tax and is now in fiscal trouble, dire trouble, and you can show that we are on the same course, the voters will listen.
Washingtonians like the public services our state provides. Many of these services are invisible, in that one notices them primarily in their absence. If DOH is underfunded, for example, it is unable to fend off a pertussis outbreak.
Thus, it can be hard for people to make the connection between cause and effect. If we cut education funding, we will begin to see disastrous effects 20 years later when our workforce is unable to compete with the world. It's a bit like trying to convince a teenager not to smoke. They are unimpressed with tumors that will take decades to form.
And so is the electorate. Tim Eyman succeeds through the use of urgency. What matters is the immediate, not the long-term. You might not even be alive when those effects come about, so why worry? Its better to gorge now and let the future be damned. This works all too well.
We must learn to frame this argument in the moment. And the moment we frame it in has to be one when we are in danger of losing that which we cannot afford to lose.
People who quit smoking after being diagnosed with lung cancer still only have six months at the most. But they at least see things all too clearly, and in the spirit of repentance, act. When they act publicly, others might learn. So if you can find a state that resisted income tax and is now in fiscal trouble, dire trouble, and you can show that we are on the same course, the voters will listen.
3
@2 We've been cutting subsidies to public universities for 20 years now and their is still no shortage of college graduates.
4
The situations aren't exactly comparable, though: do you think most people will come to view the lack of a state income tax as a simple act of predjudice ?
5
No.
Think of all your favorite legislation that's been passed and enacted in WA state during your tenure here. Take, for example, same-sex marriage. Now think what happens to same-sex marriage when a legislator says same-sex marriage AND income tax. Political cowardice?
Think of all your favorite legislation that's been passed and enacted in WA state during your tenure here. Take, for example, same-sex marriage. Now think what happens to same-sex marriage when a legislator says same-sex marriage AND income tax. Political cowardice?
6
I cannot WAIT, until I can marry my pet rooster "Chuck Mudede" and get the Goldy tax to boot.
Where do you sign up for this AWESOME idea?
Where do you sign up for this AWESOME idea?
7
Sentence #1 - gay marriage. California.
Sentence #2 - gay marriage. California.
Sentence #3 - gay marriage. California.
Sentence #4 - opinions change.
Sentence #5 - opinions change.
Sentence #6 - income tax. Washington.
Sentence #7 - political insult.
What the fuck?
Sentence #2 - gay marriage. California.
Sentence #3 - gay marriage. California.
Sentence #4 - opinions change.
Sentence #5 - opinions change.
Sentence #6 - income tax. Washington.
Sentence #7 - political insult.
What the fuck?
8
Charter schools failed on the first three tries. The only thing that changed for them was getting $17 million in backing from billionaires and the backing of corporations.
Income taxes will pass when they get corporate backing, too. It could come if the income tax replaces the B & O tax.
Income taxes will pass when they get corporate backing, too. It could come if the income tax replaces the B & O tax.
9
Ken@3: "We've been cutting subsidies to public universities for 20 years now and their is still no shortage of college graduates."
Ummm, the only way we currently staff M$, Google and the B is because we have a kickass location and people are willing to move here from places that actually fund public education. If we were South Dakota and had to breed our own workforce we'd be fucked.
Ummm, the only way we currently staff M$, Google and the B is because we have a kickass location and people are willing to move here from places that actually fund public education. If we were South Dakota and had to breed our own workforce we'd be fucked.
10
Before we enable income tax, we should follow the job creating model of Texas and lower our sales tax, and double our property tax. It works.
11
Attitudes on sexuality form from personal and social constructs, attitudes on taxes from from philosophical and economic constructs. It is best only a tangential exercise in conjecture to juxtapose the two.
14
We need to revamp our whole tax system. What's keeping that from happening is the crazy old school thinkers in the State house and senate on both sides of the aisle. Yes we need a statewide income tax - on all income above poverty level. We need the large corporations to pay b&O tax (Boeing and Microsoft etc, don't now). We need to give a tax break to start ups - we're the only state in the US that take a B&O tax on startups. And while we think about raising taxes, we need to implement more efficiency standards and results testing in State gov't, and the programs the State gives money too. Anytime we raise more money and have more programs, we need to hire more auditors. These things sound simple, but Dems and Repubs in leadership positions are keeping this stuff from happening.
15
Just to be clear -
Goldy just compared a civil rights issue with a taxation issue?
Yes, the tax structure in Washington hurts those in lower socio-economic classes. It's an unfair tax.
But it sure as shit isn't as bad as second-class citizenship.
Goldy just compared a civil rights issue with a taxation issue?
Yes, the tax structure in Washington hurts those in lower socio-economic classes. It's an unfair tax.
But it sure as shit isn't as bad as second-class citizenship.
16
here are some efficiencies in government:
1. end the war on drugs.
2. reduce prison and guard populations and cost.
3. do'nt paint bike sharros that basically do nothing.
4. stop spending mllions on planning transit, we know we need rail type system like everywhwere else.
5 close the loopholes.
6 stop doing sounder north the billion wasted on that capital expense was a mistake.
7, stop subsidizing profit making sports corporations that pay bazillions on salary and earn their owners potentially hundrds of millions in profits. we have six stadiums to fund, way too many, we should have not subsidized a single one except at uw and instead should have built transit lines.
8. stop wasting school money eg selling to a community group that does nothing with the land instead of a school that was going to pay like 9 million. stop the thefts at seattle schools too.
9. stop the 1% for arts. if government workers want art, they can bring a picasso poster from home, i reccomend doves or hands holding flowers.
10. stop not maintaing roads properly it costs more in the long run if you don't maintain.
11. stop building pontoon bridges -- you just replace them every 40 or 50 years -- big waste. build normal bridges.
12. the systems for managing divorce cases, parenting, dui cases assaults etc. are prone to churning cases and conducting multiple hearings; some could be done away with, some could be by skype.
13. in general public buildings for employees are often palatially wasteful -- look at our city hall with a fake mountain slope with fake bubbling trout stream. they basically wasted about three floors of space.
1. end the war on drugs.
2. reduce prison and guard populations and cost.
3. do'nt paint bike sharros that basically do nothing.
4. stop spending mllions on planning transit, we know we need rail type system like everywhwere else.
5 close the loopholes.
6 stop doing sounder north the billion wasted on that capital expense was a mistake.
7, stop subsidizing profit making sports corporations that pay bazillions on salary and earn their owners potentially hundrds of millions in profits. we have six stadiums to fund, way too many, we should have not subsidized a single one except at uw and instead should have built transit lines.
8. stop wasting school money eg selling to a community group that does nothing with the land instead of a school that was going to pay like 9 million. stop the thefts at seattle schools too.
9. stop the 1% for arts. if government workers want art, they can bring a picasso poster from home, i reccomend doves or hands holding flowers.
10. stop not maintaing roads properly it costs more in the long run if you don't maintain.
11. stop building pontoon bridges -- you just replace them every 40 or 50 years -- big waste. build normal bridges.
12. the systems for managing divorce cases, parenting, dui cases assaults etc. are prone to churning cases and conducting multiple hearings; some could be done away with, some could be by skype.
13. in general public buildings for employees are often palatially wasteful -- look at our city hall with a fake mountain slope with fake bubbling trout stream. they basically wasted about three floors of space.
17
@8 I guess you don't count having a president for charters or emanuel or mayors of several big democratic cities plus mllions of parents including african american parents who choose charters. your analysis is woefully one sided and just pure bias and cant.
@15 -- people actually don't give a crap about second class citizenship or else all slog readers would be in daily uproar about our denying voting rights to dc and puerto rico residents -- about 6.6 million people, mainly, people of color too.
@15 -- people actually don't give a crap about second class citizenship or else all slog readers would be in daily uproar about our denying voting rights to dc and puerto rico residents -- about 6.6 million people, mainly, people of color too.
20
It could go a long way to help our budget if vehicle violations were assessed fines according to income. Also car registration according to income. It's like an income tax. In fact, any state services could be charged by income level.
21
"A rising tide lifts all boats."
Quit trying to tax people more Goldy et al !
Make the economy better: More people get jobs where they pay taxes, others get paid more, people buy more stuff, the tax coffers fill up.
This is SO simple folks. "Business" and "Profit" are not bad words. Stop treating them like they are y'all...
Quit trying to tax people more Goldy et al !
Make the economy better: More people get jobs where they pay taxes, others get paid more, people buy more stuff, the tax coffers fill up.
This is SO simple folks. "Business" and "Profit" are not bad words. Stop treating them like they are y'all...
22
@3... there, not their... graduate, yes... educate, maybe not so much. Put more cash unto spelling class..
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